[Champ]

Lots to say about conceding so early and the way we did, and also lots to say about the fight and character of this squad. That said, this system (Eriksen partnering with Casemiro, Rashford on the left, Bruno as attacking midfielder, and a proper striker- which by the way should be Sancho, not Martial, until Hojlund is ready) is far more suitable to this squad than the two 8s.

Hope ETH is keeping receipts. When Mount comes back, he should go either on the right wing, or behind Bruno. Recasting players where they don’t belong is a bad proposition. The metal of a good coach is to create a system that suits his squad, not the other way around.

I tend to agree with this, I think Mount over Antony currently in the same set up as today would work well.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Fully willing to criticise any version of our club that goes 2-0 down in the first 5.

But also willing to credit any version of our club that comes from two down to win.

Folks need to get some perspective. I’m far more worried about how badly we looked after being a man up, than the performance or final score. Still can’t hold the ball and control a game. It’s maddening.

 

[TomSkalle]

First 4 min
Nice comeback
Last 15 against 10 men

I have decided to not be negative, because most players look like they have been drinking all summer and need more games to get in shape.
I also think we played bad last 15 because they were tired after chasing the comeback.

All in all its ok, we have gotten 6 points out of 9, but the big test will be against Arsenal next match.
Im not confident to say the least.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I’m usually not like this, but anyone that says we didn’t almost completely dominate that game has the most sour s@@t colored glasses on…find another team if you can’t enjoy a good performance.

This. Why even be a fan?

 

[jem]

The most encouraging thing is how we kept our shit together after going 2-0 down. That reflects well on the captain and the manager. Let's hope it continues.

 

[Judas]

We’re just so oddly passive when we go ahead in games and it’s an issue that’s been going on for so long.

 

[Manncunian]

I’m usually not like this, but anyone that says we didn’t almost completely dominate that game has the most sour s@@t colored glasses on…find another team if you can’t enjoy a good performance.

Hear, hear.

They should go follow another sport, never mind another team.

 

[Suedesi]

Went to brunch instead - we're going to win the league!

 

[Matt007a]

Awful start. The first goal we conceded was farcical. That’s not the first time we’ve conceded from our own corner with someone running clear from the half way line.

After the initial madness we completely dominated the game. If Martial wasn’t so useless we could have scored earlier on. Might as well have played without a striker most of the game, every ball into the box he was no where near it because he has no desire to get on the end of it.

Casemiro keeps diving in and committing himself leaving us totally exposed on the break. I don’t know if he’s just unfit or what. He started quite slowly last season so I’m hoping that’s a short term problem.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Showed good resolve after 0-2, I guess.

But needing a red card plus a penalty to beat Forest at home is a bad look.

What?

 

[Zed is not dead]

Negatives:
- We really really need to find a way to cure that defensive passivity that has been plaguing us for several years now

- The lack of defensive intensity is very worrying

- Why do we wait until we’re losing to show some urgency in our game?

Positives:
- Great comeback, nice to see the team not giving up completely and fighting for a win

- We’re starting to be good when playing on the front foot and we start getting high turnovers, signs that are press is getting slightly better

 

[Litch]

3 games in.....thats all Im saying

 

[Siorac]

Start Sancho false 9 vs Arse.

Was Martial that bad?

 

[TheFaceGlove1]

Steve Cooper looked proper disappointed in his post-match presser:

https://animationreview.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/birth-of-a-notion-c2a9-warner-brothers.jpg

(Bear with me for the crappy link, I can't post pictures in threads yet...)

 

[kopviolator]

Was Martial that bad?

He was rusty. He hasn't played for a long time. Necessary minutes for him but was largely anonymous.

 

[Laurencio]

There was a lot to be optimistic about in the way that we played, and I think this match perfectly illustrated the issues we are having.

Firstly, it is evident that some players just aren't good enough on the ball and aren't good enough in their decision-making. Dalot, Wan Bissaka, Scott McT made crucial errors in build up and make mistakes in their off-the-ball movements. That frequently left us exposed and broke our build up. They aren't bad players at all, just can't seem to play the style.

Our second, and arguably biggest flaw, is that we lack a physical presence up top. We aren't winning aerial battles, we get pushed off the ball a lot and we don't seem to handle body contact well. We need someone up top that can physically match premier league defenders to give them something to worry about.

Finally, we have two players who are very good technically, but that either make the wrong decision or lose their concentration at the wrong time - Bruno and Rashford. There's a tendency from both of them to play more individually, and that is sometimes detrimental (other times not, because they are quite good footballers). I don't expect that to be much of a problem if we sort out the other stuff though.

On to the good, of which there was plenty.

Sancho did a very good job opening play with his movement - if he gets his dribbling ability back at some point, he could be very good for us. He's too physically weak to be our main man up top though.

Antony can apparently dribble, cut right and cross well with both feet. His second half was quite good.

Eriksen is a gem of a player. His movements are excellent, his passing is crisp and he works hard. Love the guy.

Martinez is a very good player, it will be interesting to see how he develops into his role, as I can see him sticking around for many years.

Tactically we looked very decent. The errors that crept into our game were mostly down to luck, relative physical weakness, and mistakes made by players. We could have won this comfortably if the quality off and on the ball was a little better from a handful of players, and I think that's key to remember. We aren't quite there yet in terms of players, but there's a very good side being built here.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Was Martial that bad?

I can't remember him doing much of anything, i think that's bad for a 9. I will understand if ETH plays him vs Arse because he is a natural striker, and they only one we have, but I wouldn't.

 

[OrcaFat]

Lots to say about conceding so early and the way we did, and also lots to say about the fight and character of this squad. That said, this system (Eriksen partnering with Casemiro, Rashford on the left, Bruno as attacking midfielder, and a proper striker- which by the way should be Sancho, not Martial, until Hojlund is ready) is far more suitable to this squad than the two 8s.

Hope ETH is keeping receipts. When Mount comes back, he should go either on the right wing, or behind Bruno. Recasting players where they don’t belong is a bad proposition. The metal of a good coach is to create a system that suits his squad, not the other way around.

Don’t think this is right at all.

 

[Revan]

Somehow Elanga, who has left, looks fitter than half of our squad

To be fair, he was our most athletic player in the last 2 seasons. Just that he is crap at everything else.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Hm?

Once we got 3-2 up, it was horrendous to see how little confidence we had against a 10 men Forest. It was reminiscent of how we defended the final few mins against Wolves but even more shocking since they were a man down and chasing the game. We really need to have more about us to get more goals on counters or just have the ability to hold on to the ball.

 

[pocco]

Decent comeback back from the 5th minute onwards you could see Forest were there for the taking. They parked the bus but their defending was comically bad and their keeper was woeful. I'll be surprised if we get an easier game this season, even with the 0-2 head start.

Hard to comment on us as Forest just had no idea on how to defend or control the game, really negative and naive from them. We were allowed to play the ball around with ease. We carried some really poor performers and still got the win, which says it all. They looked better with ten men when behind, as they actually came at us and could have got something from it.

We still looked open on the counters too but their lack of quality showed and they didn't capitalise.

 

[Zico1982]

I have some hope for more goals to be score, if we play like this. Our game today would have been the perfect start for Højlunds runs into the box. Eriksen, probably our slowest player, was the only one getting in to connect with a cross. This is Højlunds force, and he has the strength and speed to get there. In normal form, he would have startet with two or three goals today by reachin passes that Martial don´t get anywhere near. Against Arsenal that will be a lot harder.

 

[OrcaFat]

I tend to agree with this, I think Mount over Antony currently in the same set up as today would work well.

No it won’t. Antony does a lot of good stuff and isn’t a major part of the problem. Mount is not a right winger and I don’t see any sense in playing him there (will be amazed if it is even tried by EtH).

When Mount is fit we will go back to the system we have been trying to play. It is a good thing that EtH has more conviction than most of the posters on this forum. He has designed a system that he believes will help us to win consistently. Unfortunately the players are not quite implementing it properly yet but it will come.

 

[Drifter]

That pen was dodgy

 

[The Mitcher]

Better than that log Martial, in my humble opinion and you sure cannot play Rashford up the middle. So yeah, Sancho is needed.

Martial is a log, Sancho is a twig.

 

[Buster15]

embarrasing,. we played like cowards against a 10 men team. city would have comfortably smashed this lot if they were in our shoes

It is irrelevant what City would or would not have done. A win is a win, especially so early in the season. But we really made hard work of that.

 

[Laurencio]

Fully willing to criticise any version of our club that goes 2-0 down in the first 5.

But also willing to credit any version of our club that comes from two down to win.

Folks need to get some perspective. I’m far more worried about how badly we looked after being a man up, than the performance or final score. Still can’t hold the ball and control a game. It’s maddening.

Some of our players just aren't technically good enough to do that when so clearly physically outmatched - especially when they are getting tired. Forrest are a much taller and stronger team than ours, when they went long it was bound to be a slog for them.

 

[The Mitcher]

Negatives:
- We really really need to find a way to cure that defensive passivity that has been plaguing us for several years now

- The lack of defensive intensity is very worrying

- Why do we wait until we’re losing to show some urgency in our game?

Positives:
- Great comeback, nice to see the team not giving up completely and fighting for a win

- We’re starting to be good when playing on the front foot and we start getting high turnovers, signs that are press is getting slightly better

Honestly sounds like Ole.

 

[Strelok]

That pen was dodgy

What?? It's clearly a pen.

 

[The Mitcher]

Don’t think this is right at all.

How is the system with one 6 and two tens better than the 4231 last year?

 

[Strelok]

How is the system with one 6 and two tens better than the 4231 last year?

We didn't play with a 4231 last year nor today.

 

[The Mitcher]

We didn't play with a 4231 last year nor today.

We played 4231 all season, what you on about? It was eriksen and casemiro in a two for the vast majority of games, with fred or mctominay as well. Today was the same formation as the last two games, but the idea this is better is ludicrous.

 

[MyBloodIsRed]

But we should it’s going to be a scrappy fight to stay in the top half after displays like the last two weeks uhhh

 

[Berbasbullet]

What?? It's clearly a pen.

Honestly don't understand football fans, he cuts across him and his knee goes into his leg meaning he can't carry on his run.

Haven't seen it again but from where I was sat it looked like a stonewaller.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Utterly complacent for all but 25 mins either side of half time. Our current mentality stinks. Its baffling why. We made them look a threat for no good reason even with 10 men.

 

[Nobby style]

Lots to say about conceding so early and the way we did, and also lots to say about the fight and character of this squad. That said, this system (Eriksen partnering with Casemiro, Rashford on the left, Bruno as attacking midfielder, and a proper striker- which by the way should be Sancho, not Martial, until Hojlund is ready) is far more suitable to this squad than the two 8s.

Hope ETH is keeping receipts. When Mount comes back, he should go either on the right wing, or behind Bruno. Recasting players where they don’t belong is a bad proposition. The metal of a good coach is to create a system that suits his squad, not the other way around.

I don't know, we were the better side in the first half visiting Spurs and thought Mount was quite decent. That first half looked more like a blueprint for Ten Hag than anything we saw today, except of course we were missing a proper 9. And take into account Garnacho and Anthony were atrocious, and Rashford, Bruno and Casemiro quite mediocre. If the aforementioned 5 players had been in form and a proper 9, I believe we would've torn Spuds apart.

 

[croadyman]

Showed some spirit to come back from 2-0 down

 

[Strelok]

We played 4231 all season, what you on about? It was eriksen and casemiro in a two for the vast majority of games, with fred or mctominay as well. Today was the same formation as the last two games, but the idea this is better is ludicrous.

That 4231 is only true in the line up showed on TV.

In the actual match when we're in possession it's generally 3231 or 3141 or whatever. Under Ole you could clearly see the team was 4231 for the majority of the match. But with ETH most of the time I have no idea who's supposed to do what anymore and the shape of the team changes and varies a feck lot through through the match. Our players seem to exchange positions and responsibilities a lot.

Talking about today Eriksen scored as a #10 cut into the box. He was definitely not a pivot in a double pivot in a 4231. Bruno was not a #10 either. He was basically everywhere. Then you could see Casemiro as our last man in defense and also him as a CAM operating in and out of the box.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

This would have been a lovely 2 up bet.

 

[OrcaFat]

How is the system with one 6 and two tens better than the 4231 last year?

If we keep playing like we did last year we will achieve a similar result to last year.

In any case, the system we are trying to play is not a six and two tens it is much more complicated than that. All the players have rules to follow depending on what’s happening in the game (I think they call it phases of play).

If the players do what they are supposed to, we combat overloads from the opponent and create overloads for ourselves, especially in trying to win the ball back high up the pitch. We need two advanced midfielders to create numerical advantages in the opponent half otherwise they will play through us more easily and spend more time in our half.

However, if the players don’t follow their own rules, we get problems. The void in CM is supposed to be filled by fullbacks tucking in and CBs stepping out. The wingers have to chase back and cover the flanks. The players have to be fit but also they have to be very well drilled in reading the game and doing what they should be doing (which changes all the time depending on what’s going on).

Not all players will be able to learn it fast but when the whole team is working like a well-oiled machine, it makes fuller use of the total resources on the pitch. Players are doing more for the team because they have more complex roles which, in turn, reduces positional redundancy; it’s like playing with an extra player.

When it’s not being done properly it looks terrible but we have to give it time.