Scott McTominay | Transfer discussion not performance discussion

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Tuchel is a strange one, for PSG he wanted kehrer at all cost. He also wanted Choupo Moting who admittedly proved to be a decent backup.

McTominay could easily be one of his new strange obsessions.
Aubameyang as well, at Chelsea. The guy was finally chilling at Barca when Tuchel decided he needs him at all cost. Than got himself sacked a week later.
 
How unlucky are we?

Mainoo gets injured and makes selling McTominay less straightforward.
Maguire rejects West Ham and makes us getting Todibo impossible.
Varane gets injured and makes keeping Maguire more likely.
Shaw gets injured and forces us to buy in a position we didn't even need to focus on this summer.
Amad gets injured and Antony has no one challenging him at RW yet.
Henderson waits until the last days to find a club and provide us with money to use.
Hojlund. arrives unable to play rendering us strikerless going into the new season.

Just an awful confluence of things.
Parts and parcels of the game. That said, if we could just turn back the clock and do the season over again it would be great.
 
Just realised I don't read "case" as [kays] anymore... I now instinctively read it as [ka-say]
Interesting. I always wondered how you pronounced Casemiro’s first name abbreviated to ‘Case’. I’d argued with myself whether it is Kace or Kass. I’d never considered Ka-say although surely Ka-sa is more accurate?

Maybe we should just call him Carlos…..:wenger:
 
Are you dumb? You're asking for evidence of something that happened a month ago. Everyone knows City bid for Rice.

Show me a source that shows City actually bit on Maguire.
They did and that is all you need to know. Maguire talked to both clubs after that.

Calling me dumb is the best thing to do when you are wrong. Great job.

So they didnt bid?
They did for 1000th time.

Caicedo is a much better passer, more versatile able to play well from rightback when used there last season. And most importantly although he's clearly better he's just 21, 5 years younger than McTom

Rice is a much better passer and dribbler, better DM when it comes to competing for the ball and positioning himself to help defend and is a leader which is why he was West Ham captain as they went to the final of a european competition.

McTom is arguably the best at shooting of the 3. Something you dont get to do much from DM

We're 3 games into the season. Brighton are in the same position they finished last season. West Ham are doing better... Again for 3 matches. The season is more than 3 matches.
So it is mostly about age because nothing that Caicedo have shown up to now indicates that he is better player.

Rice is as much leader as O’Shea. He might grow into it but he is not that. Just because you are captain doesn’t mean you are leader. When it comes to other qualities I can agree he is slightly better defensivly when playing in low block with 10 players defending. Playing in team that attacks exposes that side of play which we’ve seen this year. He is no better passer of the ball and what dribbler?

I don’t see McTominay as only defensive midfielder. He should be box to box player with a role more towards attacking side.
 
So it is mostly about age because nothing that Caicedo have shown up to now indicates that he is better player.

Rice is as much leader as O’Shea. He might grow into it but he is not that. Just because you are captain doesn’t mean you are leader. When it comes to other qualities I can agree he is slightly better defensivly when playing in low block with 10 players defending. Playing in team that attacks exposes that side of play which we’ve seen this year. He is no better passer of the ball and what dribbler?



I don’t see McTominay as only defensive midfielder. He should be box to box player with a role more towards attacking side.

Sounds like you dont know anything about Rice. He carries the ball forward well and passes the ball well from his DM position

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As we can see McTom is good in the air, can grab a goal occasionally and will put in a tackle. When it comes to playing the ball Rice and Caicedo are better. Caicedo is a much better passer and Rice is better both carrying the ball forward and passing the ball.
 
Bayern and every club in the world knows the pr
How unlucky are we?

Mainoo gets injured and makes selling McTominay less straightforward.
Maguire rejects West Ham and makes us getting Todibo impossible.
Varane gets injured and makes keeping Maguire more likely.
Shaw gets injured and forces us to buy in a position we didn't even need to focus on this summer.
Amad gets injured and Antony has no one challenging him at RW yet.
Henderson waits until the last days to find a club and provide us with money to use.
Hojlund. arrives unable to play rendering us strikerless going into the new season.

Just an awful confluence of things.

Yeah lots of dominoes falling.

But I would still probably take the hit and go through the pain rather than adding stopgap signings tbh.
 
How unlucky are we?

Mainoo gets injured and makes selling McTominay less straightforward.
Maguire rejects West Ham and makes us getting Todibo impossible.
Varane gets injured and makes keeping Maguire more likely.
Shaw gets injured and forces us to buy in a position we didn't even need to focus on this summer.
Amad gets injured and Antony has no one challenging him at RW yet.
Henderson waits until the last days to find a club and provide us with money to use.
Hojlund. arrives unable to play rendering us strikerless going into the new season.

Just an awful confluence of things.
Several of those are problems of our own making.

No one forced us to sign an injured player.
Maguire should have never been signed
Mctominay should've been sold years ago
Henderson should've never been given a new contract and been long gone
We've spent hundreds of millions and should have more talent on the right wing than Antony and a teenager.

Not all Ten Hag's fault, but all this "bad luck" is a reflection on years of crap management and lack of planning that means we often find ourselves in these unfortunate situations
 
They did and that is all you need to know. Maguire talked to both clubs after that.

Calling me dumb is the best thing to do when you are wrong. Great job.

You don't need a bid to talk to a club.

You are dumb because you have no evidence that anyone but United made a bid for Maguire. Yet you call me out saying that no top manager made a bid for Rice, when it has been well documented only a few weeks back that City did.

I like Scott Mctominay. Seems a good lad and probably has been unlucky having played for United at a time where there has been so much change and unrest. But there is nothing to suggest he is at the level of Rice of Caicedo. No one but you thinks he is even close, which is why no one wants him at 30mil, despite being all but surplus to requirements at United.
 
so what you''re saying is keeping McTominay will be the solution to everything?

What I'm saying is that getting rid of McTominay won't solve anything.

There's no magic bullet.

Casemiro, Bruno, Mount, Eriksen, Mainoo (Erik talked highly about him). That is 5 in front of him. They all play before him. Both no10s (Eriksen and Bruno) will play before him in deeper positions. So yes, he is 6th choice.

Bruno as an anchorman?! I would genuinely love to see that! People with a heart condition should look away, though.

From a Scotland point of view, McGinn is our Bruno. Sloppy in position and plays high risk football.

Steven Gerrard played McGinn as a no 6 at Aston Villa. He was abysmal and the scape goat for the fans. Emery plays him as a no 10. He's one of the driving forces behind Villa starting so well.

I would love to see Bruno as an anchorman. Would be hilarious.

And no, a youngster like Mainoo would not be a better candidate to a team who is genuinely looking to challenge the top 4, than a player who has EPL, European Cup and International experience.

The fact you are making up quotes only makes your entire point even more ridiculous. Nobody said any of those things, just like nobody is saying that selling McTominay will cure everything and we'll challenge City.

Other than physicality, which he doesn't actually even use very well anyway, Scott simply doesn't provide anything to a level that makes him a good option even off the bench. Therefore it entirely makes sense to sell him and use that money to sign somebody who is better. Somebody who will be a better option off the bench, and who is a better option to start either as a tactical choice or when resting others. Nobody is saying to sell him without signing a replacement which is what you seem to be refusing to acknowledge. It's not the sale of Scott that improves us, it's the replacement that we sign from his sale.

Yeah. Well. If we have to sell in order to buy then Manchester United is in worse condition than I've ever known.

If its a FFP issue then maybe if EtH hadn't overspend on Antony and Casemiro and Mount we might have a little bit of change left in the kitty.

And contrary to popular misconception, McTominay has contributed more than the aforementioned. But don't tell that to the "He hides from the ball" mob.

As a United fan I would find it immensely funny if McTominay joins Bayern Munich. Starts regularly in his best position. Scores a barrel-load. Is a darling of the fans..and returns next season with a Bundesliga winner's medal in one pocket and a European Cup Winner's medal in another.

Suddenly he wouldn't look like the problem.
 
What I'm saying is that getting rid of McTominay won't solve anything.

There's no magic bullet.



Bruno as an anchorman?! I would genuinely love to see that! People with a heart condition should look away, though.

From a Scotland point of view, McGinn is our Bruno. Sloppy in position and plays high risk football.

Steven Gerrard played McGinn as a no 6 at Aston Villa. He was abysmal and the scape goat for the fans. Emery plays him as a no 10. He's one of the driving forces behind Villa starting so well.

I would love to see Bruno as an anchorman. Would be hilarious.

And no, a youngster like Mainoo would not be a better candidate to a team who is genuinely looking to challenge the top 4, than a player who has EPL, European Cup and International experience.



Yeah. Well. If we have to sell in order to buy then Manchester United is in worse condition than I've ever known.

If its a FFP issue then maybe if EtH hadn't overspend on Antony and Casemiro and Mount we might have a little bit of change left in the kitty.

And contrary to popular misconception, McTominay has contributed more than the aforementioned. But don't tell that to the "He hides from the ball" mob.

As a United fan I would find it immensely funny if McTominay joins Bayern Munich. Starts regularly in his best position. Scores a barrel-load. Is a darling of the fans..and returns next season with a Bundesliga winner's medal in one pocket and a European Cup Winner's medal in another.

Suddenly he wouldn't look like the problem.

You are suggesting playing Bruno as a 6? :nono:
 
Can't see McTominay getting lots of playing time ahead of Goretzka, Kimmich and Laimer. Unless either of the latter two is played ahead of Mazraoui at RB?

Not to mention Gravenberch who has flopped so far but is more of an 8.

Considering our midfield woes it is best to keep McTominay I feel.
 
You are suggesting playing Bruno as a 6? :nono:

Do you know what sarcasm is?

I was replying to someone who said that Bruno would play ahead of McTominay as a no 6.

I didn't want to call him nuts, as that's rude. So i settled for sarcasm.
 
Sounds like you dont know anything about Rice. He carries the ball forward well and passes the ball well from his DM position

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As we can see McTom is good in the air, can grab a goal occasionally and will put in a tackle. When it comes to playing the ball Rice and Caicedo are better. Caicedo is a much better passer and Rice is better both carrying the ball forward and passing the ball.

McTominay is way better than Caicedo on progressive carries though, according to these stats. Meaning he is better at carrying the ball? Quite odd
 
What I'm saying is that getting rid of McTominay won't solve anything.

There's no magic bullet.

Have to disagree. If selling him allows us to buy a midfielder who knows how to play the deep midfield role properly, it will certainly help.

I do agree with the general sentiment of your post however, my reply was tongue in cheek :D
 
McTominay is way better than Caicedo on progressive carries though, according to these stats. Meaning he is better at carrying the ball? Quite odd

He's actually pretty good at driving forward into space. If he could distribute the ball better, he'd be a terrific midfielder.
 
Do you know what sarcasm is?

I was replying to someone who said that Bruno would play ahead of McTominay as a no 6.

I didn't want to call him nuts, as that's rude. So i settled for sarcasm.
And yet, back in April when we were without Eriksen and Case, Erik decided to play with Bruno as our deepest midfielder. With McT on the pitch.
I guess that Erik was sarcastic too.
 
In Germany the media discusses a possible loan swap between McTominay and Gravenberch.

McTominay would play as holding 6 and Laimer be moved to RB as a replacement for Pavard, who will move to Inter.

Reading through this threat most of you are saying McTominay isn't a holding 6 but more an 8 or box to box player, actually a poor man's Goretzka.

I don't know much about McTominay but I'm surprised that our board and Tuchel can be so wrong in analyzing the strengths of a player.
 
In Germany the media discusses a possible loan swap between McTominay and Gravenberch.

McTominay would play as holding 6 and Laimer be moved to RB as a replacement for Pavard, who will move to Inter.

Reading through this threat most of you are saying McTominay isn't a holding 6 but more an 8 or box to box player, actually a poor man's Goretzka.

I don't know much about McTominay but I'm surprised that our board and Tuchel can be so wrong in analyzing the strengths of a player.

Gravenberch is also an 8, which United hardly need. We need cover for Casemiro.
 
If Bayern offers you a swap deal or too good to be true kind of deal, you ignore it. Simple.
 
In Germany the media discusses a possible loan swap between McTominay and Gravenberch.

McTominay would play as holding 6 and Laimer be moved to RB as a replacement for Pavard, who will move to Inter.

Reading through this threat most of you are saying McTominay isn't a holding 6 but more an 8 or box to box player, actually a poor man's Goretzka.

I don't know much about McTominay but I'm surprised that our board and Tuchel can be so wrong in analyzing the strengths of a player.
Man to man he is very good. Strong and wins lots of tackles. Positionally he is not very good at 6, he likes to close players down and can leave gaps, rather than holding the space. This is why his interceptions is so low.

Also he has been successful for Scotland in a more advanced role which is why people say he isn't a 6.
 
In Germany the media discusses a possible loan swap between McTominay and Gravenberch.

McTominay would play as holding 6 and Laimer be moved to RB as a replacement for Pavard, who will move to Inter.

Reading through this threat most of you are saying McTominay isn't a holding 6 but more an 8 or box to box player, actually a poor man's Goretzka.

I don't know much about McTominay but I'm surprised that our board and Tuchel can be so wrong in analyzing the strengths of a player.
He's capable of playing that role well. I would say that two of the three best runs of form in his career have come in the deeper position (the early period under Rangnick then again the early period under ETH).

The issue is his consistency. In both the cases that I mentioned above, his form then dropped massively and he was quite poor. He struggles with positioning, he gives away quite a lot of unnecessary fouls in dangerous positions and there are times he can be wrong-footed and dribbled past quite easily. But he's had those consistency issues no matter where we've played him. He's shown he CAN be a good player, he just doesn't do it anywhere near enough. But perhaps playing in a weaker league would allow him to do it more often, especially in the Bundesliga where a lot of the teams do seem to be quite open. He destroyed Leeds a couple of times (albeit as an 8 rather than a 6) when Bielsa had them playing a very open style.
 
I mean surely we should be keeping McTominay. At the very least we clearly lack height (especially outside of Varane who is made of glass). And surely selling our most physical /athletic CM when we clearly have a problem of people running through our midfield is also risky. I think actually we might have a better balance with him as an #8 next to Casemiro.
 
Anyone looking at the bench last weekend should realise the United squad is very thin...this late in the window and with the current owners, nobody should be leaving!
 
I mean surely we should be keeping McTominay. At the very least we clearly lack height (especially outside of Varane who is made of glass). And surely selling our most physical /athletic CM when we clearly have a problem of people running through our midfield is also risky. I think actually we might have a better balance with him as an #8 next to Casemiro.
Yes, absolutely.

McTominay is getting paid peanuts. He's currenly the lowest paid first team squad member (other than Garnacho who's obviously still a teenager). In fact, he's even on lower wages than Brandon Williams up until we sold him. Any replacement we buy will want more money.

He's also the youngest of our #6s with both Casemiro and Eriksen having the legs of 50 year olds.

He gives us the physicality and height that's so sorely missing from the rest of the team.

And he has the leadership qualities that are such a big gap in the side, with Rangnick even predicting him to be a future captain.

The thing McTominay lacks (and it's a big lacking) is creativity with his passing. But in a team with Mount and Bruno, that's not quite as important. Hell, even Casemiro has been passing it less creatively since around April/March when we initially switched to 433.

I think selling Scott would be a massive mistake. He's an ideal squad member. People just want to disassociate from him because they link him to the days when he was first choice. But of all the players we have to sit on the bench, he's probably got the smallest ego and the biggest overlap with what the first XI are missing.
 
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Man to man he is very good. Strong and wins lots of tackles. Positionally he is not very good at 6, he likes to close players down and can leave gaps, rather than holding the space. This is why his interceptions is so low.

Also he has been successful for Scotland in a more advanced role which is why people say he isn't a 6.
His positioning is good and his interceptions are fine when he's is a system setup to play that way.

In the PL in 19/20
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Under Ole when he mostly played alongside Fred in a 2

In the PL in 20/21
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Under Ole when he mostly played behind Fred in a 1 plus 1, and was mostly left to do it alone

In the PL in 21/22
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Under Rangnick when the team had little structure and everyone was a bit rubbish

In the PL in 22/23
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Under EtH when he often came on late to close games out
 
His positioning is good and his interceptions are fine when he's is a system setup to play that way.

In the PL in 19/20
image.png

Under Ole when he mostly played alongside Fred in a 2

In the PL in 20/21
image.png

Under Ole when he mostly played behind Fred in a 1 plus 1, and was mostly left to do it alone

In the PL in 21/22
image.png

Under Rangnick when the team had little structure and everyone was a bit rubbish

In the PL in 22/23
image.png

Under EtH when he often came on late to close games out

I don't think interceptions are necessarily a great stat for judging positioning (not sure there is one tbh).

Fred has great numbers for interceptions as well, and his defensive game is mostly running after the ball like an overly excited Jack Russell.
 
Yes, absolutely.

McTominay is getting paid peanuts. He's currenly the lowest paid first team squad member (other than Garnacho who's obviously still a teenager). In fact, that even included Brandon Williams up until we sold him. Any replacement we buy will want more money.

He's also the youngest of our #6s with both Casemiro and Eriksen having the legs of 50 year olds.

He gives us the physicality and height that's so sorely missing from the rest of the team.

And he has the leadership qualities that are such a big gap in the side, with Rangnick even predicting him to be a future captain.

The thing McTominay lacks (and it's a big lacking) is creativity with his passing. But in a team with Mount and Bruno, that's not quite as important. Hell, even Casemiro has been passing it less creatively since around April/March when we initially switched to 433.

I think selling Scott would be a massive mistake. He's an ideal squad member. People just want to disassociate from him because they link him to the days when he was first choice. But of all the players we have to sit on the bench, he's probably got the smallest ego and the biggest overlap with what the first XI are missing.

Good post I agree
 
Sounds like you dont know anything about Rice. He carries the ball forward well and passes the ball well from his DM position

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As we can see McTom is good in the air, can grab a goal occasionally and will put in a tackle. When it comes to playing the ball Rice and Caicedo are better. Caicedo is a much better passer and Rice is better both carrying the ball forward and passing the ball.
If we use this stats as example, there is no way someone can say that Rice and Caicedo are 100m players. If we use this stats we can clearly see that McTominay is better on lot of mentioned statistic. So why would McTominay be valued worse? So if you want to talk about DM position, McTominay is better than Rice defensivly although he isn't even a defensive midfielder. That doesn't help Rice. Same goes with Caicedo.

I just want to say that I watch football and judge what I see. I don't look at stats. But if you want to look at stats, you have shown that McTominay isn't worse player. Thank you for that.
 
You don't need a bid to talk to a club.

You are dumb because you have no evidence that anyone but United made a bid for Maguire. Yet you call me out saying that no top manager made a bid for Rice, when it has been well documented only a few weeks back that City did.

I like Scott Mctominay. Seems a good lad and probably has been unlucky having played for United at a time where there has been so much change and unrest. But there is nothing to suggest he is at the level of Rice of Caicedo. No one but you thinks he is even close, which is why no one wants him at 30mil, despite being all but surplus to requirements at United.
You really need to get more insight in football teams and not read in media. And I will tell you again that teams did bid for Maguire. I will not change your mind with that and that is ok with me.

For me there is nothing to suggest that Rice and Caicedo are better player than McTominay. Stats show that. What we see on pitch shows that. The only thing they have is age and nationality which somehow pushes their value up on insane level. Age for Caicedo and nationality for Rice. This is almost like giving £50m for Philips which ManCity did. Nothing else.
 
You don't need a bid to talk to a club.

You are dumb because you have no evidence that anyone but United made a bid for Maguire

Rodgers said in his interview that they got 2 bids for Maguire, thats when both clubs tried to sign him and also that both bids fell short of their asking price.
 
His positioning is good and his interceptions are fine when he's is a system setup to play that way.

In the PL in 19/20
image.png

Under Ole when he mostly played alongside Fred in a 2

In the PL in 20/21
image.png

Under Ole when he mostly played behind Fred in a 1 plus 1, and was mostly left to do it alone

In the PL in 21/22
image.png

Under Rangnick when the team had little structure and everyone was a bit rubbish

In the PL in 22/23
image.png

Under EtH when he often came on late to close games out

Someone posted them above and it was 0.72 per game, 24th percentile for midfielders so I don't know why your numbers are so different.
 
What I'm saying is that getting rid of McTominay won't solve anything.

There's no magic bullet.



Bruno as an anchorman?! I would genuinely love to see that! People with a heart condition should look away, though.

From a Scotland point of view, McGinn is our Bruno. Sloppy in position and plays high risk football.

Steven Gerrard played McGinn as a no 6 at Aston Villa. He was abysmal and the scape goat for the fans. Emery plays him as a no 10. He's one of the driving forces behind Villa starting so well.

I would love to see Bruno as an anchorman. Would be hilarious.

And no, a youngster like Mainoo would not be a better candidate to a team who is genuinely looking to challenge the top 4, than a player who has EPL, European Cup and International experience.



Yeah. Well. If we have to sell in order to buy then Manchester United is in worse condition than I've ever known.

If its a FFP issue then maybe if EtH hadn't overspend on Antony and Casemiro and Mount we might have a little bit of change left in the kitty.

And contrary to popular misconception, McTominay has contributed more than the aforementioned. But don't tell that to the "He hides from the ball" mob.

As a United fan I would find it immensely funny if McTominay joins Bayern Munich. Starts regularly in his best position. Scores a barrel-load. Is a darling of the fans..and returns next season with a Bundesliga winner's medal in one pocket and a European Cup Winner's medal in another.

Suddenly he wouldn't look like the problem.

ETH doesn't negotiate the transfer fees, he just tells our DOF who he'd be interested in bringing in and then it's left to them. He hasn't overspent on them, the club have.
 
You really need to get more insight in football teams and not read in media. And I will tell you again that teams did bid for Maguire. I will not change your mind with that and that is ok with me.

For me there is nothing to suggest that Rice and Caicedo are better player than McTominay. Stats show that. What we see on pitch shows that. The only thing they have is age and nationality which somehow pushes their value up on insane level. Age for Caicedo and nationality for Rice. This is almost like giving £50m for Philips which ManCity did. Nothing else.

So what specifically are you seeing that Ten Hag isn't then?

Because if Ten Hag had Rice or Caicedo, they would be playing every week for us.
 
You really need to get more insight in football teams and not read in media. And I will tell you again that teams did bid for Maguire. I will not change your mind with that and that is ok with me.

For me there is nothing to suggest that Rice and Caicedo are better player than McTominay. Stats show that. What we see on pitch shows that. The only thing they have is age and nationality which somehow pushes their value up on insane level. Age for Caicedo and nationality for Rice. This is almost like giving £50m for Philips which ManCity did. Nothing else.
Sorry, but :wenger:
 
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