[Cassidy]

I agree with you Kane is a superb striker, but I couldnt see his numbers he had at Spurs happening here as he was always looked for at Spurs. Rashford gets the majority of the ball here and rarely passes unless hes about to lose the ball or runs up an alley, so to speak. Kane would be on the halfway line trying to get the ball here.

Rashford is the only player who needs to makes passes in the team? I should have known this was some Rashford does not pass agenda.
Kane creates a large number of his chances for Son etc from deep, because he is a superb player.

In any case this is the Hojlund thread, I'm sure he will get better and the team will adjust to him over time. I'm also pretty sure him and Rashford will develop a good on pitch relationship as they get to know each others games

 

[wolvored]

Rashford is the only player who needs to makes passes in the team? I should have known this was some Rashford does not pass agenda.
Kane creates a large number of his chances for Son etc from deep, because he is a superb player.

No not a Rashford agenda at all just saying he gets the majority of the ball. If it was Martial or Sancho etc I would have named them. There are a lot of players who dont make good passes in the team.

 

[Cassidy]

No not a Rashford agenda at all just saying he gets the majority of the ball. If it was Martial or Sancho etc I would have named them. There are a lot of players who dont make good passes in the team.

He only gets the majority of the ball because he is one of the only forwards who gets himself into space to get it.
When Antony was playing he also saw a lot of the ball, and as the team get to know Hojlund he will also get more of the ball

Also Rashford does not see the ball more than our midfielders, but I won't even get into that

 

[Andycoleno9]

I agree with you Kane is a superb striker, but I couldnt see his numbers he had at Spurs happening here as he was always looked for at Spurs. Rashford gets the majority of the ball here and rarely passes unless hes about to lose the ball or runs up an alley, so to speak. Kane would be on the halfway line trying to get the ball here.

So, on the same position as he played for Spurs under 3 previous (defensive) managers? And he still was at top of PL in both goals scored and assists made.
The thing what @Cassidy and me are talking is that our absolute priority this summer should have been world class striker. Kane/Osimhen = Mount + Hojlund money wise. And yes, in Kane's case it would be short term signing (for next few years) without resale value. But i bet that with Kane/Osimhen we would not be in situation where fighting for 5th place is our current goal.

I repeat, this has nothing with either Hojlund or Mount. Long term they are probably good signings but it is about what we needed for this season.

 

[Meep]

Exactly who cares about their real names?
André Önana
Diögö Dalöt
Antöny
Sounds better to me.

That was sarcasm. It has bugged me for some time LindelÖf can´t stand up for the Ö. HØjlund seems to have more principles!

The dots may seem a bit like a nuance to an non native speaker, but it is a totally different letter.. It is like saying your name is Lindelef or Lindelyf..

 

[wolvored]

So, on the same position as he played for Spurs under 3 previous (defensive) managers? And he still was at top of PL in both goals scored and assists made.
The thing what @Cassidy and me are talking is that our absolute priority this summer should have been world class striker. Kane/Osimhen = Mount + Hojlund money wise. And yes, in Kane's case it would be short term signing (for next few years) without resale value. But i bet that with Kane/Osimhen we would not be in situation where fighting for 5th place is our current goal.

I repeat, this has nothing with either Hojlund or Mount. Long term they are probably good signings but it is about what we needed for this season.

Im not arguing about Kane, he has been one of if not the best striker in the Prem the last 8 years easily. As you can see I was on about our overall build up play to the CF. As for Utd signing him wasnt it stated they baulked at his wages? They thought he wanted £30 mill a season. LINK

 

[Cassidy]

Im not arguing about Kane, he has been one of if not the best striker in the Prem the last 8 years easily. As you can see I was on about our overall build up play to the CF. As for Utd signing him wasnt it stated they baulked at his wages? They thought he wanted £30 mill a season. LINK

You can believe what ever you want but his actually wages at Bayern are 400k with bonuses which is only 100k less than Mount

I know who I would have preferred at United between Kane and Mount+Hojlund

The build up issue to Kane isn't a thing in my opinion, Kane is a player that is heavily involved in the build up and would have helped solve our build up issue in the first place

 

[pocco]

Play this lad with martial on the left and you will see both of them flourish .

are you the last remaining straggler of Martial FC?

 

[A-man]

That was sarcasm. It has bugged me for some time LindelÖf can´t stand up for the Ö. HØjlund seems to have more principles!

The dots may seem a bit like a nuance to an non native speaker, but it is a totally different letter.. It is like saying your name is Lindelef or Lindelyf..

It’s agree, ö is not a just a nuance but I am so use to it now I don’t even pay attention It’s also the F in LindelöF which should be pronounced as a V.

 

[RuudTom83]

Looking past the bad result and hate towards Rashford for a moment.

Against Brighton they actually showed a glimpse of what could be a nice partnership...and that was with only an hour playing together.

Once they combine together and score a few goals I'm sure the passing/chemistry will improve. You have to remember Rashford has been playing with Martial/Weghorst/Antony/Garnacho so he is bound to feel like he has to do it all himself.

Hojlund/Rashford with Bruno/Casemiro should be all you need to beat most teams.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Looking past the bad result and hate towards Rashford for a moment.

Against Brighton they actually showed a glimpse of what could be a nice partnership...and that was with only an hour playing together.

Once they combine together and score a few goals I'm sure the passing/chemistry will improve. You have to remember Rashford has been playing with Martial/Weghorst/Antony/Garnacho so he is bound to feel like he has to do it all himself.

Hojlund/Rashford with Bruno/Casemiro should be all you need to beat most teams.

I also noticed that. Although I can remember when Rashford and Martial showed some excellent chemistry together, a few years ago. It peaked with that outrageous scoop/flick goal Martial scored (can’t remember against who?) but completely dried up last season. They play like complete strangers these days. I don’t know exactly why it went south like that but it makes it hard to be optimistic about Rashford forming a good long term partnership with anyone.

 

[Drizzle]

I also noticed that. Although I can remember when Rashford and Martial showed some excellent chemistry together, a few years ago. It peaked with that outrageous scoop/flick goal Martial scored (can’t remember against who?) but completely dried up last season. They play like complete strangers these days. I don’t know exactly why it went south like that but it makes it hard to be optimistic about Rashford forming a good long term partnership with anyone.

That's because Martial is terrible these days. Can barely move. And that's when he's fit. Can't put that on Rashford.

The Hojlund partnership has real promise.

 

[sglowrider]

Looking past the bad result and hate towards Rashford for a moment.

Against Brighton they actually showed a glimpse of what could be a nice partnership...and that was with only an hour playing together.

Once they combine together and score a few goals I'm sure the passing/chemistry will improve. You have to remember Rashford has been playing with Martial/Weghorst/Antony/Garnacho so he is bound to feel like he has to do it all himself.

Hojlund/Rashford with Bruno/Casemiro should be all you need to beat most teams.

100% correct.

 

[justsomebloke]

There are weird things going on here with regard to Rashford and Højlund. We're all desperate to see Højlund succeed, and many, I would argue, is getting more than a little carried away by having a fast, strong, hard-working striker working to get into good scoring positions, which is something we've not seen since, well, Cavani. Rashford on the other hand is getting stick for, essentially, not burying his chances (no one would have complained he's being selfish if he had). And for not suddenly being something he's never been - a playmaking forward.

Understandable up to a point, but it's gotten rather unhinged, to the point pf absurdity. Just look at the ratings from the Brighton game - Hojlund second best among the starters with a 5.6, Rashford among the poorest with 4.0. Which is nuts. On the eye test alone, if you're watching that game and fail to notice that very nearly everything we created attacking-wise involved Rashford and that Højlund was not really much involved, what fecking glasses are you wearing? Stats say the same, and very, very clearly too:

	Højlund	Rashford
npxG	0,03​	0,7​
xA	0​	0​
Shots	1​	9​
Passes completed	8​	21​
Key passes	2​	0​
Tackles+intercept	1​	0​
Touches	13​	44​
Touches att 1/3	7​	34​
Shot-creating actions	2​	3​
Progressive carries	0​	8​
Attempted take-ons	0​	8​
Progr passes received	4​	11​
Passes received	9​	38​

And remember, they were both playing striker in this game. My point here is not to criticise Højlund, who's showing a lot of good things. But let's stay grounded - as long as he's not scoring goals, he is not so far having a big impact on the game. Rashford does. By any reasonable definition, he delivered a much bigger contribution in this game than Højlund did. But too many people see what they're hoping for with Højlund rather than what's already there, and their own hangups when it comes to Rashford. Seething about him shooting instead of passing on that break, despite the lack of any clear passing lane and forgetting or not noticing a lot of other things.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There are weird things going on here with regard to Rashford and Højlund. We're all desperate to see Højlund succeed, and many, I would argue, is getting more than a little carried away by having a fast, strong, hard-working striker working to get into good scoring positions, which is something we've not seen since, well, Cavani. Rashford on the other hand is getting stick for, essentially, not burying his chances (no one would have complained he's being selfish if he had). And for not suddenly being something he's never been - a playmaking forward.

Understandable up to a point, but it's gotten rather unhinged, to the point pf absurdity. Just look at the ratings from the Brighton game - Hojlund second best among the starters with a 5.6, Rashford among the poorest with 4.0. Which is nuts. On the eye test alone, if you're watching that game and fail to notice that very nearly everything we created attacking-wise involved Rashford and that Højlund was not really much involved, what fecking glasses are you wearing? Stats say the same, and very, very clearly too:

	Højlund	Rashford
npxG	0,03​	0,7​
xA	0​	0​
Shots	1​	9​
Passes completed	8​	21​
Key passes	2​	0​
Tackles+intercept	1​	0​
Touches	13​	44​
Touches att 1/3	7​	34​
Shot-creating actions	2​	3​
Progressive carries	0​	8​
Attempted take-ons	0​	8​
Progr passes received	4​	11​
Passes received	9​	38​

And remember, they were both playing striker in this game. My point here is not to criticise Højlund, who's showing a lot of good things. But let's stay grounded - as long as he's not scoring goals, he is not so far having a big impact on the game. Rashford does. By any reasonable definition, he delivered a much bigger contribution in this game than Højlund did. But too many people see what they're hoping for with Højlund rather than what's already there, and their own hangups when it comes to Rashford. Seething about him shooting instead of passing on that break, despite the lack of any clear passing lane and forgetting or not noticing a lot of other things.

You do make a good point but some of that difference is down to Hojlund being subbed off after an hour and Rashford playing alongside a ghost for 30 minutes, which will skew the involvement stats heavily in his favour. Plus the general bad taste by Rashford’s attitude in that period after Hojlund went off when he reacted to our desperate situation with a weird combination of extreme selfishness and despondence.

In the first 20 minutes or so Rashford looked absolutely world class, which also helped his overall starts. Probably the best player on the pitch. For which he obviously deserves credit. But fans will tend to prefer a player who makes a consistent effort ahead of someone who is as streaky as Rashford was against Brighton, especially if they tail off towards the end. Recency bias is a huge factor in player ratings.

 

[justsomebloke]

You do make a good point but some of that difference is down to Hojlund being subbed off after an hour and Rashford playing alongside a ghost for 30 minutes, which will skew the involvement stats heavily in his favour. Plus the general bad taste by Rashford’s attitude in that period after Hojlund went off when he reacted to our desperate situation with a weird combination of extreme selfishness and despondence.

In the first 20 minutes or so Rashford looked absolutely world class, which also helped his overall starts. Probably the best player on the pitch. For which he obviously deserves credit. But fans will tend to prefer a player who makes a consistent effort ahead of someone who is as streaky as Rashford was against Brighton, especially if they tail off towards the end. Recency bias is a huge factor in player ratings.

Reasonable points all. Still. Main point is people are overdoing it a bit. Rashford is getting too much stick, and people are turning Højlund into something he isn't (yet), which is not to do him a favour. If he's going to continue touching the ball once every five minutes, he needs to score goals. Or at least get some serious chances. Patience is probably called for.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Reasonable points all. Still. Main point is people are overdoing it a bit. Rashford is getting too much stick, and people are turning Højlund into something he isn't (yet), which is not to do him a favour. If he's going to continue touching the ball once every five minutes, he needs to score goals. Or at least get some serious chances. Patience is probably called for.

We definitely need to be patient. But I wouldn’t worry too much about him not having many touches. It’s the shittiest/most unhelpful comparison in the world but we can all think of another tall, young, blonde striker who doesn’t touch the ball much but still contributes a lot to his team! At the end of the day, Hojlund was a blurry indecisive video image away from finishing his debut with the most important stat of all, a goal.

 

[sglowrider]

So you're telling me that Mount + Hojlund wages is close to Kanes wages give or take 20-70k/week (Osimhen would not have cost us 400k/week in wages by the way)
And then the fees for both players combined is roughly what it would have taken to sign Kane/Osimhen? £55(+5)+£64(+8m)= £119m(+13m)?

So like I said previously:

Kane/Osimhen + Onana + Amrabat > Hojlund + Mount + Onana + Amrabat

The question around budget makes no sense because we could have afforded to do both scenarios in the equation

The money was a part of it – not just the fee for Kane but the wages, United’s understanding being that his annual salary would need to be around £30m (or £577,000 a week). As an aside, United were blown out of the water by Bayern on personal terms for Kim Min-jae; the centre-half chose them when he left Napoli under his €50m release clause in July.

Its actually worse -- Kane wanted £30million a year. And no resale value.

 

[Cassidy]

Its actually worse -- Kane wanted £30million a year. And no resale value.

Sure he did thats why hes on 400k a week
Same source was saying Rashford wanted 400k+ a week to renew. Hes on far less

 

[justsomebloke]

We definitely need to be patient. But I wouldn’t worry too much about him not having many touches. It’s the shittiest/most unhelpful comparison in the world but we can all think of another tall, young, blonde striker who doesn’t touch the ball much but still contributes a lot to his team! At the end of the day, Hojlund was a blurry indecisive video image away from finishing his debut with the most important stat of all, a goal.

Speaking of unhelpful comparisons, we can also all think of another striker on loan from Burnley who didn't touch the ball much and also didn't contribute a lot to his team. Not that I'm making the comparison, but the point is it's no more of a projection than the other one.

In any case, the main point made by those stats to me is that there was a huge difference in the level of involvement of our two strikers against Brighton, which puts into relief how much projection and preconception - negative and positive - is impacting on how individual performances are perceived.

 

[Leftback99]

Pretty anonymous bar the goal. But then so was Kane at the other end.

 

[next_number_seven]

His touch isn't great

 

[sammyhol]

Pretty anonymous bar the goal. But then so was Kane at the other end.

kane wasn’t anonymous…..

his hold up and interplay were exceptional… although he was given all the time in the world to do so.

hojlund barely touched it.

 

[Red Shorts]

Good to be off the mark, especially getting a goal away at Bayern in the CL.

He looks like he tries hard to get into the centre when attacking. Shame our balls into the box are inconsistent

 

[Bubz27]

Good to be off the mark, especially getting a goal away at Bayern in the CL.

He looks like he tries hard to get into the centre when attacking. Shame our balls into the box are inconsistent

I felt like today we tried more than Saturday. Hopefully it's a trend that continues.

 

[Lyng]

Pretty anonymous bar the goal. But then so was Kane at the other end.

The more service he will get the better he will be. He needs to work hard on his first touch though. But again, he scored. If it wasnt for VAR he would have got a goal last game as well. His job is to score.

 

[Lay]

Seen a few poor touches by him. Rusty or does he just have a bad touch?

 

[Telsim]

Ghost outside the goal. He will get better, though.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Mostly invisible

But he's playing in a terrible team, so yeah, not sure what to think of him yet

 

[3KDré]

Seen a few poor touches by him. Rusty or does he just have a bad touch?

Think that's his touch.

 

[VP89]

Pretty rusty on buildup play but a genuine presence in the box.

 

[Woodenlung]

Took his goal well and he'll improve. Think he could have been positioned better for a number of Rashford and Reguilon crosses in the first half. There were tap ins available had he been inside the six yard box rather than checking his run.

 

[Leftback99]

Seen a few poor touches by him. Rusty or does he just have a bad touch?

I don't think it's a strength put it that way.

 

[Red Shorts]

I felt like today we tried more than Saturday. Hopefully it's a trend that continues.

We did for sure, but still either too hard or at the goalie. Brighton was truly dreadful service

 

[horsechoker]

Remember he's 20 and bring asked to lead the line for us a far below average United team

People's shite microanalysis can do one

 

[Bubz27]

We did for sure, but still either too hard or at the goalie. Brighton was truly dreadful service

Feed him and I will cum, sorry, he will come.

 

[TMDaines]

Had him to score 12 this season. 11 to go.

 

[Red Shorts]

Feed him and I will cum, sorry, he will come.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Give him chances inside the box, and I believe he can deliver something we didn't really have last season. The problem is our ability to create for him.

 

[Drizzle]

Remember he's 20 and bring asked to lead the line for us a far below average United team

People's shite microanalysis can do one

Exactly, got a goal in 180 minutes of football against very good teams while playing in a dysfunctional team himself. Not bad for a barely match fit 20 year old new to the league.

That said, his touch is off and I'm not seeing the next Van Basten or anything. But promising start.