Any serie A follower would have told you that Hojlund is good. You don't need murtough and his army of data analysts for that
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
ExactlyPaying 100M euro for Antony alone should be sack able offend.
He also paid 70M pound for Casemeiro in his last legs.
This summer we have a few top class ball playing GKs changing clubs with reasonable fees but we spent big on Onana.
We again spent big on Mount and he actually make the team worse because we don't have plan how to use him.
Basically he messed up 75% of our big money signings without long term plan.
When we appointed ETH, the Ajax fans warned us that ETH is not good at signings. It was Overmars in Ajax. But Murtough basically let ETH identify the signings. Even the Ajax fans here are more knowledgeable than Murtough.
There is no reason to keep him if I am the new owner.
He also paid 70M pound for Casemeiro in his last legs.
This summer we have a few top class ball playing GKs changing clubs with reasonable fees but we spent big on Onana.
We again spent big on Mount and he actually make the team worse because we don't have plan how to use him.
Basically he messed up 75% of our big money signings without long term plan.
When we appointed ETH, the Ajax fans warned us that ETH is not good at signings. It was Overmars in Ajax. But Murtough basically let ETH identify the signings. Even the Ajax fans here are more knowledgeable than Murtough.
There is no reason to keep him if I am the new owner.
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Murtough is said to had worked within the women's team and the youth academy before moving as DOF were he focused on stuff like recruitment. Those are things that can be quantified and analyzed.
The women's team - quite frankly I don't follow it so I am sure that they are others who can easily slot in and give us the review on that. I do remember though of Casey Stoney leaving because the facilities were horrendous. That doesn't come across as a well organized plan to me
The youth academy - prior to 2016 United used to win the youth leagues on a regular basis. Things went down soon afterwards. At the time of writing we're 9th place at U21 level with a point gap of 29 points from first place City and we're 3rd place at U18 level with a point gap of 13 points again from first place City.
Recruitment - we are still offering silly salaries/fees for players. I am not a big fan of Brailsford but if he slammed the club on Casemiro's signing then he's 100% right. Spending so much money in salary/fee for a 30 year old DM is pure lunacy. DMs rely heavily on work rate and feet are the first to go.
Regarding 'discovering' Hojlund. That's utter stupidity. Hojlund was playing in the Serie A with one of the most exciting clubs in Italy (whom last season ended up 5th place btw). Discovering Hojlund is the equivalent of 'discovering' Caicedo at Brighton
The women's team - quite frankly I don't follow it so I am sure that they are others who can easily slot in and give us the review on that. I do remember though of Casey Stoney leaving because the facilities were horrendous. That doesn't come across as a well organized plan to me
The youth academy - prior to 2016 United used to win the youth leagues on a regular basis. Things went down soon afterwards. At the time of writing we're 9th place at U21 level with a point gap of 29 points from first place City and we're 3rd place at U18 level with a point gap of 13 points again from first place City.
Recruitment - we are still offering silly salaries/fees for players. I am not a big fan of Brailsford but if he slammed the club on Casemiro's signing then he's 100% right. Spending so much money in salary/fee for a 30 year old DM is pure lunacy. DMs rely heavily on work rate and feet are the first to go.
Regarding 'discovering' Hojlund. That's utter stupidity. Hojlund was playing in the Serie A with one of the most exciting clubs in Italy (whom last season ended up 5th place btw). Discovering Hojlund is the equivalent of 'discovering' Caicedo at Brighton
its some of the wages that were handed out that get me and that then turns into the problem when selling player. Sancho, ok we are almost all guilt of wanting that transfer at that time but why was he offered such high wages ? Surely with no competition a 10-20% increase on the Dortmund salary (53K) should have been enough for someone who really wanted to play for Utd, not almost 5 times the salary (250K). Thats assuming though that the figures we are told are accurate.
hilarious take. record numbers of goals and assists. trying to get the deal done for years. price nearly 100m euro. "jaden you were on 53k, how does 58k sound?"
imagine it leaked that we would only offer him 58k. imagine the reaction on this forum.
what if we missed out on hojlund because he was on 20k and we offered him 22k, nice 10% uplift? would you be okay with that?
The thing about wages is that until something fundamentally changes its all we have to offer anyone.
As for Murtough I do feel he gets a bad wrap for following the manager a bit to much but then that's hardly the worst thing, he did a lot of good with the youth set up signing the likes of Garnacho, Kambwala and Fernandez to name 3.
Will he be here if this deal goes through I highly doubt that but then should they employ a DoF who goes against the manager too much it could be that EtH will leave as well.
how hilarious ? 53K to 250K is quite the negotiation.
very hilarious. the idea that these players would accept a 10-20% increase can just be rejected offhand.
I believe Sancho's salary at Dortmund had already reached 190k a week. This is Dortmund's Modus Operandi to lure potential superstars aside of game time and CL experience. Pep called them out few years ago.
i think you have hit something there, 'these players' , the wrong players is the real issue i guess. A hungry player should really be happy to play for Utd with a 10-20% increase in wages (assuming its not a youth contract) , even after the wages the marketability and click potential would be through the roof on signing for Utd.
thanks for that update, that would be a good explanation for the offer then
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7.5 times the salary wasnt it 375k a week?
Why should he? I don't see anyone claiming Haaland or Bellingham lack hunger and they surely got more than 10-20% increase when they left Dortmund. A proven talent will get a big contract and if United aren't willing to üay that the player wouldn't move there.
It's evident that there's frustration and disappointment with Murtough's performance over the past year. The inability to offload certain players and the recruitment decisions have clearly left some fans dissatisfied. The perception of being closely tied to certain players or acquaintances, even those connected through wedding gifts, has raised concerns about impartiality in transfer dealings. It remains to be seen how the club addresses these issues and if improvements can be made in the future.
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It's entirely possible that Murtough wasn't the one who set the terms for the working relationship on transfers with Ten Hag, and that it was a compromise created by his boss (Arnold). Edwards had similar isues at Liverpool until Klopp came a long. To be fair to the man, he might be the least of our problems.
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Let's get him out pronto. Director of football should be telling ETH Antony is worth 30 million, Mount isn't needed and Casemiro is only leaving Madrid because they know he's declining fast than the Titanic sinking.
He deserves to lose his job!
He deserves to lose his job!
Replacing Murtough with an actual competent sporting director would be half the battle won really, it needs to be the first thing Ratcliffe and Ineos do.
It's hilarious how vehemently some people on here have defended him in the past. He really is a non entity
Believe me, the "Murtough did nothing wrong" brigade is still going strong here.
The worst thing that happened to us post SAF is not Moyes, LVG, Jose or Ole. The worst thing happened to us was Ed and his pals Arnold and Murtough.
I was against him from day 1. I took the insults for it simply and I stood my ground on two arguments alone.
a- The Glazers are incompetent owners who only care about putting money in their pockets. They won't hire someone competent in that role simply because they would either have to bend to his wishes or he'll have to resign and make them look like fools. Murtough thrived into that system which suggest that he's a puppet.
b- Murtough had zero experience in the role. That's a huge problem since the role depend on the person being in the know how of everything (players, agents, clubs etc). Sure there are inexperienced DOFs around but those tend to thrive in a club whose structure is already built. We lacked that and we still do.
However I can understand the pro Murtough brigade
a- the system left by SAF was ancient and obsolete. It worked for him cause he was a genius but once he was gone it collapsed on itself. There was so much space for improvement (ex appointing data analysts) that any change was seen as positive
b- Murtough and Arnold were knee capped by undecisive owners who simply can't take a decision. Transfers are fluid and few hours can change everything. There are rumors of the Glazers taking an entire month to decide.
The rot comes from the very top. Arnold and Woodward only understand money while Murtough seems to be a bit of a puppet and a snake oil merchant . They thrived in that system precisely for that
I don't think this argument works. United making bad tranfers is incredible waste of money. Someone competent would have invested much smarter.
I would like to say I agree with your pro murtough points but there is literally no sign of improvement. We were probably way behind the times in using data but now we mostly just sign players our manager knows so what has changed. Sure the glazers glacial decision making is an issue but did that result in us paying £80m for Antony or deciding to spend so much of our summer budget on mount with the misguided intention of playing him as an 8
True but its difficult to disentangle Murtough from the owners as well. For example if the owner takes a month before he gives the go ahead to a signing then things will probably change and the DOF will end up looking stupid irrespective if he's Murtough, Edwards or Mitchell. On the other hand an Edwards or a Mitchell would rather resign then put their reputation at risk something that is not a problem for Murtough as he's got zero reputation to protect. Which explains why the Glazers prefer throwing millions in the bin then hire half decent people. They need people who always give the thumbs up to their plans no matter what. Let's face it a competent owner won't keep Murtough in place.
What makes me anti Murtough is
a- his lack of spine on everything. DOFs should be challenging the system rather then nodding and give the thumbs up to everyone (CEO, manager etc)
b- he wouldn't spend months chasing ghosts like he did with De Jong
c-we wouldn't overspend in terms of salaries and fees.
Would be a good appointment provided he is given full power to make decisions
Every fecking fans and their dogs know last summer that we need a proven striker but we spent 70M on a young striker. I like Hojlund but he is too inexperienced to lead us in the attack.
Haland alone score as many goals as our team. Embarrassing
Haland alone score as many goals as our team. Embarrassing
Tbf except for Kane all the other strikers have been rubbish.
This is such a weird thing to complain about
In fairness, when I opened the thread, I was sure someone was going to find a way of blaming Fletcher for this game.
Anyone can become DOF if the job is so easy. I'm very sure there are many strikers doing better than Hojlund now.
Games against city are a reflection on the club. We’ve been run so poorly and without strategy for so long and it’s how’s on the pitch.
Managers and players also should rightly share some blame, but it’s altogether pointless who we have in place there when we are so rudderlessly led.
Managers and players also should rightly share some blame, but it’s altogether pointless who we have in place there when we are so rudderlessly led.
Exactly, City football structure and leadership are world class. Manager come and go, they are still winning.
Should be sacked before next week is out solely on the basis of allowing the Antony and Mount transfers. This guy has absolutely no business being a DoF anywhere, much less here.
I felt this merited it’s own thread since it would get buried in the Ten Hag/Murtough threads if I posted it in there.
I’m sick of seeing so many people (our fans, opposition fans, the media) blame Ten Hag for the state of our squad when we have a Director of Football inplace.
For those who don’t understand that role (many don’t seem to) here is a handy link
https://universidadeuropea.com/en/blog/director-of-football
They are meant to set the sporting vision for the club and are meant to ensure every sporting decision we make is aligned with this vision, with transfers being a huge part of that.
I have no doubt Ten Hag chose half this squad but allowing him to do so is a dereliction of duty on the DoF’s part.
This is not meant to absolve Ten Hag of blame, he has done plenty wrong, but I’m tired of constantly seeing Murtough get a free pass.
It’s clear why the media allow it, they love to pile pressure on our manager and I’m fairly certain Murtough is one of their best sources for inside info, but our own fans should know better.
I’m sick of seeing so many people (our fans, opposition fans, the media) blame Ten Hag for the state of our squad when we have a Director of Football inplace.
For those who don’t understand that role (many don’t seem to) here is a handy link
https://universidadeuropea.com/en/blog/director-of-football
They are meant to set the sporting vision for the club and are meant to ensure every sporting decision we make is aligned with this vision, with transfers being a huge part of that.
I have no doubt Ten Hag chose half this squad but allowing him to do so is a dereliction of duty on the DoF’s part.
This is not meant to absolve Ten Hag of blame, he has done plenty wrong, but I’m tired of constantly seeing Murtough get a free pass.
It’s clear why the media allow it, they love to pile pressure on our manager and I’m fairly certain Murtough is one of their best sources for inside info, but our own fans should know better.
I don’t see Murtough getting a free pass anywhere? The general consensus on here seems to be that he’s absolutely shite.
Blaming Ten Hag for squandering for 400m (which happens on here constantly) is giving Murtough a free pass.
You're right but what are we supposed to do as fans when the Glazers are completely resistant to an actual sporting director?
The manager is the weakest link in the football hierarchy. Our only hope is to keep applying pressure on managers who are not good enough so they get sacked and hopefully find one who's good at both recruitment and coaching. With our current structure, cycling through managers is the only hope we have.
The manager is the weakest link in the football hierarchy. Our only hope is to keep applying pressure on managers who are not good enough so they get sacked and hopefully find one who's good at both recruitment and coaching. With our current structure, cycling through managers is the only hope we have.
I think most agree. That's why around 75% has voted on no sacking (including me).
But let's be honest if we bring a new competent Dof, a new head of recruitment etc, will ETH willingly lose the power he has now?
That was my fear from day 1 with ETH.
We had an amazing chance of restructuring but we decided to go the usual road of let's spend so we get top 4.
A real plan, and vision would be to bring ETH and tell him that we just want mid table in your first year while we plan on players for the next 2.
But let's be honest if we bring a new competent Dof, a new head of recruitment etc, will ETH willingly lose the power he has now?
That was my fear from day 1 with ETH.
We had an amazing chance of restructuring but we decided to go the usual road of let's spend so we get top 4.
A real plan, and vision would be to bring ETH and tell him that we just want mid table in your first year while we plan on players for the next 2.