Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

The negotiations over Antony started and stalled well before the end of the window so I seriously doubt they could not get any alternatives over the line. More likely is that ETH stood firm on his preference and Murtough just didn't want to overrule him.
Was reported United couldn’t provide alternatives
 
Well results speak for themselves don't they? Paying 100 million for Antony is just incompetence on full display.

We didnt pay 100m for Antony though we paid 81m (much better value than 100m for grealiash or Mudryk), Ajax rejected multiple offers from us as they didnt want to sell and only gave in when Antony himself told them directly that he wanted to leave.
 
It never fails to amaze me how people speak with such certainty (and vitriol) about the likes of Murtough while clearly having no idea who they are.

Maybe he is bad or good at his job but when people are suggesting someone who has worked 30 years in coaching, sports science, player and coaching development, is going to be moved to the business side without having ever worked in a business role just suggests their posts are pointless and haven’t even bothered to google the guy they are demanding to be fired.
Pretty much this

People also have a strange hard-on for Fletcher’s sacking that never ceases to amuse me
 
A- I think I've already wrote enough about that but let me summarize quickly. Both Bob Ratcliffe and Brailsford had roles at Nice with the former also having a role a Lausanne. Since then they were kicked upstairs with Bob Ratcliffe running football operations and Brailsford being a director of sports both for the whole INEOS group. Each club are now independent from one another with each having their own CEO and their own DOF. At Nice both CEO and DOF has previous experience in that role. I can't see him reverting to the bad old ways considering that it costed him a lot + Nice are doing very well with the present structure

B- I have nothing about anyone. However its evident that INEOS find the sporting side of United as being weak. Which is why they insist on full control of. Its also true that we don't do enough money from the academy something we used to do during our glory days and whom Chelsea/City do to near perfection. So that's a pressing issue a cash strapped United will probably tackle. Finally its a known fact that Rangnick (an experienced DOF with a way better pedigree than Murtough and all of us) failed to understand what Fletcher does and that Fletcher's rise to prominence from U16 coach (October 20) to first team coach (January 21) to technical director (March 21) is rather unprecedented. As said I can't see Fletcher sacked. However its not out of the realms of possibility that Mitchell will be asking the same questions Rangnick did especially considering that they worked together and they share a similar ideology.

Zinedine Zidane - 2010 "special adviser" to Real Madrid first team, 2010 Qatar World Cup ambassador, 2011 Sporting Director
 
I can definitely see Murtough getting moved to the business side only, I am not sure what will happen to Fletcher, I'm not even sure what he does to warrant a paycheque.
Why would he be moved to the business side? His only jobs have been in football recruitment and administration. Nothing to do with business.

Also, Fletcher's role has been explained numerous times and he's very qualified for it.
 
I think it's been well reported that most personel would struggle under a Glazer sign off. So I'm not sure how much can be pinned on Arnold and Murtough really.

Eh.... We spent the most in the last decade more than RM, Barca, BM, Liverpool, City and etc.

We also spent decent money in the last few years the problem was we signed mediocre or "old" players for exorbitant fees.

All blame to Glazers?
 
Eh.... We spent the most in the last decade more than RM, Barca, BM, Liverpool, City and etc.

We also spent decent money in the last few years the problem was we signed mediocre or "old" players for exorbitant fees.

All blame to Glazers?
Money being allocated poorly and needing sign off from Glazers is a big problem.
 
Fletcher appointment is a weird one. Rangnick has been in football for decades and he couldn't understand what the feck he does exactly. Roades of the muppetiers (I know he is not liked in here but he had been spot on for months) has said that ineos football people had been highly critical on how the sporting side of United had worked. I am pretty confident that during the 100 day assessment they will be asking why someone with zero coaching experience got repeatedly promoted in a matter of few months and why someone like jones whose greatest quality seem to be his ability to persuade the club to handle him a long term contract has somehow wormed his way back into the club as a coach. Whether they will actually sack them is a totally different matter as it would be disastrous pr wise. However the modus operandi of giving jobs to the boys will be challenged especially considering the disastrous effect it had at Nice
Jesus Christ. What the hell does Phil Jones have to do with this? He's doing what Evra and others have done at Man Utd and every pro club. Coaches are linked to clubs to gain experience while they do their badges. They're not permanent hires. He's not overseeing anything and once he's finished his schooling there is no obligation that he be hired. You're just being silly with that line of argument.

Patrice Evra earns coaching badges after Manchester United role

UEFA A Licence
During the course, coaches must be actively coaching a group of players who regularly undertake training and play in organised or competitive fixtures in the 11v11 game with the criteria set above. This is crucial, so you can be assessed on the key elements of the course and be eligible to complete the qualification.

Phil Jones confirms new career path after returning to Manchester United
Phil Jones has confirmed he is undergoing a football directorship course while he completes his UEFA coaching A Licence at Manchester United.

See? Jones is just at the club until he completes his qualifications. You check all the students in that course and you'll see all of them attached to a club.
 
It’s a myth he was not involved with the first team, was stated at time he was appointed he was already working on 1st team recruitment and had helped overhaul the clubs recruitment structure. He’s been part of repeated failure and not been held accountable just like Woodward and others.

Someone has to be accountable for that failure now though, INEOS need to make changes because who and what is in place is failing. The status quo cannot continue and that needs to be demonstrated quickly.
Where was that said?
 
We didnt pay 100m for Antony though we paid 81m (much better value than 100m for grealiash or Mudryk), Ajax rejected multiple offers from us as they didnt want to sell and only gave in when Antony himself told them directly that he wanted to leave.
81 million for Antony is better value than what City paid for Grealish? Not sure I agree with that one.
 
Zinedine Zidane - 2010 "special adviser" to Real Madrid first team, 2010 Qatar World Cup ambassador, 2011 Sporting Director

Zidane got appointed as advisor on mourinho's insistence and then as assistant manager on ancelotti insistence, two great managers with an almost endless list of titles and CLs. It's not as if the manager turned up at a presser asking what Zidane did. They wanted him there and they insisted on hiring him. This seal of approval made sense given the results and he ended up winning as many CL titles as manager as our club did throughout its entire history. Unlike united, Real has an efficient and effective sporting side were appointment usually make sense I believe we can safely say its apples and pears isn't it? Tbf I'd love to see Fletcher have the same success with us as Zidane had with real
 
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Jesus Christ. What the hell does Phil Jones have to do with this? He's doing what Evra and others have done at Man Utd and every pro club. Coaches are linked to clubs to gain experience while they do their badges. They're not permanent hires. He's not overseeing anything and once he's finished his schooling there is no obligation that he be hired. You're just being silly with that line of argument.

Patrice Evra earns coaching badges after Manchester United role

UEFA A Licence


Phil Jones confirms new career path after returning to Manchester United


See? Jones is just at the club until he completes his qualifications. You check all the students in that course and you'll see all of them attached to a club.

In that case then you're right. However I won't be surprised if the guy remains at United especially in the current setup (ie full glazer control)
 
When he was appointed Football Director by the club in 2021. The idea he was only involved with youth and women’s team prior to that is total nonsense.
No. No it’s not because he wasn’t involved at all.
 
No. No it’s not because he wasn’t involved at all.

He was involved, club confirmed it in statement when he was appointed, idea he wasn’t is total nonsense that people just go along with.
 
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He was involved, club confirmed it in statement when he was appointed, idea he wasn’t is total nonsense that people just go along with.
Where here does it specifically state that he worked with the first team.

It says he worked on “structure” but nothing about working with first team on transfers or anything like that

https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director

======

Manchester United is pleased to announce the promotion of John Murtough to Football Director and Darren Fletcher to Technical Director, two new roles that will further strengthen the club’s football operations.

John will have overall leadership and responsibility for operations and strategy across all football functions, reinforcing the strong foundations already in place. This appointment builds on the work John has already undertaken in recent years, working closely with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and the rest of the football staff to create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch. This has included successful overhauls of the club’s Academy and recruitment department.

Darren will work closely with John to add technical input and direction into all football and performance areas. He will focus on a co-ordinated and long-term approach to player and squad development, helping maintain the integral link between the Academy and the first team, aligned with Manchester United’s values and culture.

As Football Director, John will work day-to-day with Ole to align recruitment and other strategies and to ensure that the first team has the best-in-class operational support it needs to succeed.

Ole will continue his role in the recruitment process, supported by extensive scouting and data analytics functions that will continue to report to John. Matt Judge will also report to John, with a new title of Director of Football Negotiations.
 
Where here does it specifically state that he worked with the first team.

It says he worked on “structure” but nothing about working with first team on transfers or anything like that

https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director

======

Manchester United is pleased to announce the promotion of John Murtough to Football Director and Darren Fletcher to Technical Director, two new roles that will further strengthen the club’s football operations.

John will have overall leadership and responsibility for operations and strategy across all football functions, reinforcing the strong foundations already in place. This appointment builds on the work John has already undertaken in recent years, working closely with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and the rest of the football staff to create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch. This has included successful overhauls of the club’s Academy and recruitment department.

Darren will work closely with John to add technical input and direction into all football and performance areas. He will focus on a co-ordinated and long-term approach to player and squad development, helping maintain the integral link between the Academy and the first team, aligned with Manchester United’s values and culture.

As Football Director, John will work day-to-day with Ole to align recruitment and other strategies and to ensure that the first team has the best-in-class operational support it needs to succeed.

Ole will continue his role in the recruitment process, supported by extensive scouting and data analytics functions that will continue to report to John. Matt Judge will also report to John, with a new title of Director of Football Negotiations.

Murtough helped to ‘successfully’ overhaul our recruitment department prior to 2021 so he clearly wasn’t just part of women’s team and academy.

Further down its emphasised;

“We have already made great strides forward in the way we run our football operations, and the benefits are visible in the resurgent pipeline of Academy talent reaching the first team and through our improved recruitment record. John has been integral to our progress in all these areas”.

So he was integral to our ‘improved recruitment’ and helped build are recruitment department which has been a disaster. This all happened prior to 2021 so he has been involved for years.
 
Murtough needed to go long ago. That’s not a guy I’d be feeling sorry for when Jim gets the keys to Carrington.
 
Murtough helped to ‘successfully’ overhaul our recruitment department prior to 2021 so he clearly wasn’t just part of women’s team and academy.

Further down its emphasised;

“We have already made great strides forward in the way we run our football operations, and the benefits are visible in the resurgent pipeline of Academy talent reaching the first team and through our improved recruitment record. John has been integral to our progress in all these areas”.

So he was integral to our ‘improved recruitment’ and helped build are recruitment department which has been a disaster. This all happened prior to 2021 so he has been involved for years.
So he set all that in place and then when he became DoF, he decided that recruitment policy will be "use manager's shortlist".:lol:
 
David Moyes' physio is still in charge of the biggest club in the world after having been Woodward's assistant for many years and some sheep are defending him :lol:
Murtough needed to go long ago. That’s not a guy I’d be feeling sorry for when Jim gets the keys to Carrington.
Shouldn't have been hired in the first place, his remit is horrifyingly underwhelming. Bet he pissed himself laughing when he found out he was the successful candidate to get the job
 
It is amazing that Murtough is still there when you look at his track record. He must be afraid to say no to either the Glazers or the manager, and it has got him this far.
 
It is amazing that Murtough is still there when you look at his track record. He must be afraid to say no to either the Glazers or the manager, and it has got him this far.

Top DOFs tend not to take shit. Partici and Mitchell left because of issues with Agnelli and Levy. Campos is already throwing a fit at psg while we know enough about Rangnick's modus operandi. Murtough survived and thrived in this toxic and incompetent environment. His cv was underwhelming for the job at hand and if fired I can't see top clubs wanting him. He is the perfect glazer man
 
I could quote anyone of the past 5 posts, but there is positive things that Murtough has done over the past 12-18 months. For example, the sports science department has been upgraded as we were in the equivalent of the 80's by comparison to various clubs with how far they gone ahead. He has also overseen improvements of the facilities in the youth and women's teams.

Yes his position is obviously at risk, but I am asking you to consider (not in a demanding or aggressive way) our current set up. Who and where do our present decisions take place? The answer; a) Joel Glazer and b) Florida.

Next who is his subordinate to his decision making? C) Richard Arnold.

People have praising the Athletic for their reporting on current Manchester United affairs over the past 2 and half months. I read an article from them seemingly praising Richard Arnold approximately 6 months ago and a paraphrase from that piece I read was "whatever happens with United ownership in the future is he just wants to do a bloody good job."

Well news for everyone (and this I do say this in a forthright manner) , he hasn't! He and the ownership structure that controls the operations have been a total failure. That is before we we even start speaking about Woodward.
 
I could quote anyone of the past 5 posts, but there is positive things that Murtough has done over the past 12-18 months. For example, the sports science department has been upgraded as we were in the equivalent of the 80's by comparison to various clubs with how far they gone ahead. He has also overseen improvements of the facilities in the youth and women's teams.

Yes his position is obviously at risk, but I am asking you to consider (not in a demanding or aggressive way) our current set up. Who and where do our present decisions take place? The answer; a) Joel Glazer and b) Florida.

Next who is his subordinate to his decision making? C) Richard Arnold.

People have praising the Athletic for their reporting on current Manchester United affairs over the past 2 and half months. I read an article from them seemingly praising Richard Arnold approximately 6 months ago and a paraphrase from that piece I read was "whatever happens with United ownership in the future is he just wants to do a bloody good job."

Well news for everyone (and this I do say this in a forthright manner) , he hasn't! He and the ownership structure that controls the operations have been a total failure. That is before we we even start speaking about Woodward.
Fair points here but end of the day Murtough has been the most senior footballing decision maker at the club for a decade of footballing failure. Obviously the Glazers are the significant issue but I don't think we'll hear many complaints, if any, if Ratcliffe immediately replaces Murtough.
 
Let me guess: The new macbooks just arrived.

They have to improve the data and analytics department and indeed Rasmus Hojlund is the first signing based on that data.

Everyone else was Woodward or currently Ten Hag driven. I wouldn't even Solskjaer was overly influential in signings. He may have really wanted Sancho and Cavani was suggested by him as an experienced striker to help out. But that about it.

If they are throwing out old Macbooks for nothing I will have one in compensation for the shyte they dished Iver the past 10 years.
 
I could quote anyone of the past 5 posts, but there is positive things that Murtough has done over the past 12-18 months. For example, the sports science department has been upgraded as we were in the equivalent of the 80's by comparison to various clubs with how far they gone ahead. He has also overseen improvements of the facilities in the youth and women's teams.

Yes his position is obviously at risk, but I am asking you to consider (not in a demanding or aggressive way) our current set up. Who and where do our present decisions take place? The answer; a) Joel Glazer and b) Florida.

Next who is his subordinate to his decision making? C) Richard Arnold.

People have praising the Athletic for their reporting on current Manchester United affairs over the past 2 and half months. I read an article from them seemingly praising Richard Arnold approximately 6 months ago and a paraphrase from that piece I read was "whatever happens with United ownership in the future is he just wants to do a bloody good job."

Well news for everyone (and this I do say this in a forthright manner) , he hasn't! He and the ownership structure that controls the operations have been a total failure. That is before we we even start speaking about Woodward.
Like you say, the sports science department were on par with a club from the 80s and it was reportedly Moyes that set about making the necessary improvements. If something is very under par, anyone could improve it by seeking the right consultation.

The same goes with the women's and youth infrastructure. We were reading reports six months ago that the women were having to run off the training pitch and go a distance to use a port a loo. Again, anyone would have sought the right consultation, as we would have used building consultant practices who have previous in designing these buildings, it's another tap in.

What about the endless chasing of de Jong last summer then getting Casemiro late in the summer and giving him a lengthy contract? Paying £80m for Maguire, going for Antony late last summer and vastly overpaying again.

He is the person who should be holding his own and saying to the manager 'listen, there's more attainable and feasible targets which are of a similar profile they the scouts have recommended'. He is vastly out of his depth in every way, I'm surprised people on here are defending him.
 
Like you say, the sports science department were on par with a club from the 80s and it was reportedly Moyes that set about making the necessary improvements. If something is very under par, anyone could improve it by seeking the right consultation.

The same goes with the women's and youth infrastructure. We were reading reports six months ago that the women were having to run off the training pitch and go a distance to use a port a loo. Again, anyone would have sought the right consultation, as we would have used building consultant practices who have previous in designing these buildings, it's another tap in.

What about the endless chasing of de Jong last summer then getting Casemiro late in the summer and giving him a lengthy contract? Paying £80m for Maguire, going for Antony late last summer and vastly overpaying again.

He is the person who should be holding his own and saying to the manager 'listen, there's more attainable and feasible targets which are of a similar profile they the scouts have recommended'. He is vastly out of his depth in every way, I'm surprised people on here are defending him.

I do not dispute that. But the De Jong saga was driven by Ten Hag. Because the new, modern coach, they hung onto his every word. After those first 2 results last season, Ten Hag probably demanded and said you need players in here or I can't work with this shower of shyte. Therefore, they blew their budget.

I suppose that is where Rangnick would have been useful, particularly during that first summer. The identifying of players needs to be taken out of Ten Hag's hands.
 
Fair points here but end of the day Murtough has been the most senior footballing decision maker at the club for a decade of footballing failure. Obviously the Glazers are the significant issue but I don't think we'll hear many complaints, if any, if Ratcliffe immediately replaces Murtough.
No he hasn’t.

Woodward took control of all footballing matters until Murtough took over in 2021. Woodward was the most senior “football man” for all that time.

I’m fed up of explaining this in this very thread, which consequently is just a murtough bashing thread at this point.
 
No he hasn’t.

Woodward took control of all footballing matters until Murtough took over in 2021. Woodward was the most senior “football man” for all that time.

I’m fed up of explaining this in this very thread, which consequently is just a murtough bashing thread at this point.

That’s very fair but also very unfortunate for Murtough that he just hasn’t done enough to warrant to stay. He’s placed a lot of good people around him but he’s just not big enough for the job.
 
Murtough helped to ‘successfully’ overhaul our recruitment department prior to 2021 so he clearly wasn’t just part of women’s team and academy.

Further down its emphasised;

“We have already made great strides forward in the way we run our football operations, and the benefits are visible in the resurgent pipeline of Academy talent reaching the first team and through our improved recruitment record. John has been integral to our progress in all these areas”.

So he was integral to our ‘improved recruitment’ and helped build are recruitment department which has been a disaster. This all happened prior to 2021 so he has been involved for years.
He improved it so well that he gave up on it
 
They have to improve the data and analytics department and indeed Rasmus Hojlund is the first signing based on that data.

Everyone else was Woodward or currently Ten Hag driven. I wouldn't even Solskjaer was overly influential in signings. He may have really wanted Sancho and Cavani was suggested by him as an experienced striker to help out. But that about it.

If they are throwing out old Macbooks for nothing I will have one in compensation for the shyte they dished Iver the past 10 years.

Any serie A follower would have told you that Hojlund is good. You don't need murtough and his army of data analysts for that
 
Paying 100M euro for Antony alone should be sack able offend.

He also paid 70M pound for Casemeiro in his last legs.

This summer we have a few top class ball playing GKs changing clubs with reasonable fees but we spent big on Onana.

We again spent big on Mount and he actually make the team worse because we don't have plan how to use him.

Basically he messed up 75% of our big money signings without long term plan.

When we appointed ETH, the Ajax fans warned us that ETH is not good at signings. It was Overmars in Ajax. But Murtough basically let ETH identify the signings. Even the Ajax fans here are more knowledgeable than Murtough.

There is no reason to keep him if I am the new owner.
 
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Murtough is said to had worked within the women's team and the youth academy before moving as DOF were he focused on stuff like recruitment. Those are things that can be quantified and analyzed.

The women's team - quite frankly I don't follow it so I am sure that they are others who can easily slot in and give us the review on that. I do remember though of Casey Stoney leaving because the facilities were horrendous. That doesn't come across as a well organized plan to me

The youth academy - prior to 2016 United used to win the youth leagues on a regular basis. Things went down soon afterwards. At the time of writing we're 9th place at U21 level with a point gap of 29 points from first place City and we're 3rd place at U18 level with a point gap of 13 points again from first place City.

Recruitment - we are still offering silly salaries/fees for players. I am not a big fan of Brailsford but if he slammed the club on Casemiro's signing then he's 100% right. Spending so much money in salary/fee for a 30 year old DM is pure lunacy. DMs rely heavily on work rate and feet are the first to go.

Regarding 'discovering' Hojlund. That's utter stupidity. Hojlund was playing in the Serie A with one of the most exciting clubs in Italy (whom last season ended up 5th place btw). Discovering Hojlund is the equivalent of 'discovering' Caicedo at Brighton
 
its some of the wages that were handed out that get me and that then turns into the problem when selling player. Sancho, ok we are almost all guilt of wanting that transfer at that time but why was he offered such high wages ? Surely with no competition a 10-20% increase on the Dortmund salary (53K) should have been enough for someone who really wanted to play for Utd, not almost 5 times the salary (250K). Thats assuming though that the figures we are told are accurate.