Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager / awaiting clarity from the club over his position

[parmenio]

Conte would be an absolute disaster. I can't believe people are still seriously suggesting him.

Look at what he did at Spurs. Geez he wouldn’t last 6 months. look what Ange is doing there after the mess Conte left behind. Next appointment not easy plus mess up top who will want to come

 

[rimaldo]

I do not believe you as I have a hard time taking you seriously.
An alternative theory though (let us be thorough): Phil Lynch, Man Utd CEO of Media, doing his thing scouring social media for the hottest trends, filling Murtough's ear with the need for 'BDE'? And neither of them thinking through the ramifications for dressing room dynamics? If true that would be further evidence we need a more experienced DoF.

if you’re going to be a director of anything you need to have at least a rudimentary understanding of the psychology of the phallus on subordinates. it’s usually the first interview question i get if i go for a new role. you’ll get asked where you see yourself in 5 years and you’ll be asked what do you do if someone comes into your office and is really hanging something serious.

 

[matherto]

We have Fulham, Luton and Everton next. I reckon we will get at least 7 points. I'm expecting 9 and we'll settle down, get players back.

I'm fully expecting us to struggle against all three.

 

[GreatDane]

Conte would be an absolute disaster. I can't believe people are still seriously suggesting him.

I'd intensity the rumours about him just to scare the squad into performing better. Start winning or Conte will take over and make you run till you puke.

 

[erikcred]

We have Fulham, Luton and Everton next. I reckon we will get at least 7 points. I'm expecting 9 and we'll settle down, get players back.

Unless the players we're getting back are the '99 team in their prime, we're not getting anywhere near 7 points in those three fixtures under ETH.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Look at what he did at Spurs. Geez he wouldn’t last 6 months. look what Ange is doing there after the mess Conte left behind. Next appointment not easy plus mess up top who will want to come

It would be peak us to go bring in Conte and prolong this decade of misery.

 

[Lee565]

Not to defend Woodward but that squad had just finished with 89 points the season before, with no major departures. Why did that summer need to be brilliant? All he needed was a midfielder, which Woody dropped the ball with, but that's not an excuse for what happened in his tenure.

Both he and LVG made the mistake of thinking we could sign whoever we wanted, and they had unrealistic targets like Bale, Ronaldo, Fabregas. But Moyes is the only one who couldn't really blame transfers or a poor squad, however.

Moyes also had the opportunity to sign thiago and rejected it, he also sacked all the back room staff and ask rio to watch video of jagielka, he created his own downfall

 

[The Hilton]

Your point was that there is no point replacing a manager with someone with a lesser CV. I accept that in the current landscape, there are few available managers who, on paper, have more to offer than Ten Hag.

My point was that there is a numerous examples of managers, with long and successful resumes that have been replaced by far less experiences managers who have gone on to do far better.

That's a bit of a misrepresentation of my point, you're conflating "CV" with "experience", and suggesting that's the only thing that I deem important.

That isn't what I'm saying - managerial experience and achievements is definitely important, as the best predictor of future performance is past performance, but there are other traits and experiences that can suggest or predict for the skills we need, such as how likely a manager is to command the respect of the players, or how accustomed to, and knowledgable about, the system we want to play they are. In the cases of Zidane, Xavi, and Guardiola, we're talking about some of the most legendary players the clubs had ever had, so the respect requirement was a given, and the same goes for the system/football knowledge, given we're talking about some of the most intelligent footballers (at least with regards to football) in history.

We tried that with Ole really, and he ticked the above boxes really, the players loved him (until Ronaldo at least), and he built a very good counter attacking team. The issues came when we wanted to move to a more proactive style of football, that's when the wheels really fell off.

Anyway I think we've gotten quite far away from the original discussion, where we seem to be in violent agreement that managerial appointments will mean very little until we sort out the wider sporting structure; once we commit to a club style, put together a data driven analytics and recruitment department, and do some decent succession planning, then at least we aren't setting our managers up to fail from the start.

 

[croadyman]

There's not many absolving him, barring one or two. Tbf, the ones backing him aren't raving lunatics either like the Jose/Ole fanboys. Thankfully he doesn't seem to have a devout ****, so if he's sacked, I think we'll all just move on with minimal nonsense.

Problem is; if we sack him now with our current structure in place (whatever the feck that is) most feel that we're pissing against the wind and will be back here in another year or two. In isolation, is he doing a good job? Right now, no, no he's not. He had a solid first season but it's been a disaster this season.

Yeah there is absolutely no way Erik should get sacked with this current structure because will be same old rinse and repeat

 

[honirelandboy]

He needs to drop Rashford and Bruno for a couple of games and persist with Garnacho, Hojlund, Anthony attack. I'd also be inclined to play a midfield three of Hannibal, Mount and Amrabat as well. I think every United fans want Rashford and Bruno dropped for a number of games to see their not the golden boys they think they and if the team starts getting wings that's 100 times better.
Has Hannibal done something not to be getting game time lately or something? Also with all defensive injuries surely he could try a 5-3-2 with Maguire/Lindelof/Evans and try Dalot and Amrabat on the wings. My only concern with Ten Hag is he is not making cut throat decisions as something clearly needs to change in the way we are playing football.

 

[The-Mezzala]

Get in Simeone/Conte

Give them full power to sack off the babies that constantly down tools, stop obeying team orders etc that we see year in, year out.

If we aren't going to play attractive football (we haven't for 10 years) then you may aswell get a manager who will at least rid the club of the problem makers. (Besides the board obviously)

Conte and Simeone would have a melt down with this il disciplined bunch.Club would go up in flames. Plus the football is so bad you will be thinking LGV wasn’t that bad after a few game’s of that dross. De Zerbi is the only manager out there to improve this mess

 

[mu4c_20le]

Come on, that squad was made up of mediocre players and finished superstars. We can't simultaneously claim that Fergie worked wonders squeezing that last title out of that lot and then also say that Moyes had a title-winning squad to start with. Falling so far down the table so fast under Moyes was such a shock to our entitled asses, but subsequent years have shown that anything else would've been a miracle.

I didn't expect him to win the title again but he was completely out of his depth. You could give him the prime Galacticos and he'll still find some way to break the crosses record.

Moyes also had the opportunity to sign thiago and rejected it, he also sacked all the back room staff and ask rio to watch video of jagielka, he created his own downfall

He completely overlooked Zaha as well for some reason.

 

[The-Mezzala]

He needs to drop Rashford and Bruno for a couple of games and persist with Garnacho, Hojlund, Anthony attack. I'd also be inclined to play a midfield three of Hannibal, Mount and Amrabat as well. I think every United fans want Rashford and Bruno dropped for a number of games to see their not the golden boys they think they and if the team starts getting wings that's 100 times better.
Has Hannibal done something not to be getting game time lately or something? Also with all defensive injuries surely he could try a 5-3-2 with Maguire/Lindelof/Evans and try Dalot and Amrabat on the wings. My only concern with Ten Hag is he is not making cut throat decisions as something clearly needs to change in the way we are playing football.

Hannibal is not good enough. 5-3-2 is something I have always felt would work .Martinez when fit again and Lindelof would massively benefit in that system.

 

[Marcus]

Is EtH's English not good enough to convey his complicated Ajelax tactics so he has given up?

 

[CallyRed]

Now he's getting in the neck for apparently making the players sit in silence and listen to City players celebrate after the game.

Cries of "easy easy easy" and "Old Trafford is fallin down" would have been tough to hear.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

City have built a structure that will survive a change in manager, as have brighton.

It probably won't. Not for long, at least.

 

[Judas]

Now he's getting in the neck for apparently making the players sit in silence and listen to City players celebrate after the game.

Cries of "easy easy easy" and "Old Trafford is fallin down" would have been tough to hear.

Is he really getting stick for this?! Football fans are so weird, I’m more than happy he did that if it’s true. If the players actually cared it might get to them.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He completely overlooked Zaha as well for some reason.

He was nobbing his daughter tbf.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It probably won't. Not for long, at least.

It defintely will. Their stable structure is what enabled them to eventually get to have a Guardiola. It will enable them to get the next him too unless they get banned for FFP breaches

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It defintely will. Their stable structure is what enabled them to eventually get to have a Guardiola. It will enable them to get the next him too unless they get banned for FFP breaches

It's unlikely that there is a 'next Guardiola' by the time the current Guardiola moves on from City, so there's that.

But in general, people overrate these "stable structures." You'd be hard pressed to come up with many examples of a stable club structure that yielded consistent results for longer than a decade. Guardiola's been at City for like 7 years so the odds are low.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Is EtH's English not good enough to convey his complicated Ajelax tactics so he has given up?

Its simply. Not even Guardiola has played the identical way he played at Barca with either his Bayern nor current (2) City sides. Its baffling why people are trying to make a big deal of this. Especially when our fan base had a fit after 1.5 years of LVG trying to instill the Ajax ball culture at our club.

Our club style has always been based on direct play based around solid ball posssesion. Which we witnessed most of lasg season. Right now we can't witness anything postive because our injuries especially on the left side of ouf defence have mucked up our play structure severely.

 

[croadyman]

Is he really getting stick for this?! Football fans are so weird, I’m more than happy he did that if it’s true. If the players actually cared it might get to them.

Yeah it should put a rocket up them to perform significantly better,however we all thought City winning treble would do it but didn't at all

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

It's unlikely that there is a 'next Guardiola' by the time the current Guardiola moves on from City, so there's that.

You are taking things way too literally. Im talking of a manager who is tactically astute with similar footballing fundamentals to Guardiola. Rather than literally the next Pep. People tend to overlook the fact since Hughes their manager recruitment has steadily gone in one direction. Same way a brighton does at a much lower level. With the apex of the recruitment strategy being Pep. Its not by luck nor coincedence.

It's unlikely that there is a 'next Guardiola' by the time the current Guardiola moves on from City, so there's that.
But in general, people overrate these "stable structures." You'd be hard pressed to come up with many examples of a stable club structure that yielded consistent results for longer than a decade. Guardiola's been at City for like 7 years so the odds are low.

Bayern Munich are exhibit A dude.

 

[CallyRed]

Is he really getting stick for this?! Football fans are so weird, I’m more than happy he did that if it’s true. If the players actually cared it might get to them.

I don't see anything wrong with it. The stuff I have seen is that players may have wanted to argue....

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Bayern Munich are exhibit A dude.

I'm not sure that is a consensus opinion among Bayern Munich fans.

 

[Fergies Gum]

Actually think his job will be in jeopardy if Newcastle win tomorrow.

 

[MadMike]

I hear people saying he needs his defence back first but he did have varane and reguilon available for city and went with different options and I don't think martinez is much better than Maguire, it's just that his short comings get overlook because he's a "warrior"

I think if anything Maguire is better than Martinez for games when we can't leave our half, like yesterday. Martinez has better distribution and can move up the pitch to play-make a bit more, but when we're playing City and can't get the ball off them that's no asset.

I still don't understand why he didn't start with Dalot-Varane-Maguire-Reguilon. Can only be because he thought Varane was not fit. But then again he said it was because of "tactics" so it boggles the mind. There's no "tactic" where Evans fits better than Varane, not in football anyway.

 

[Marwood]

Not to defend Woodward but that squad had just finished with 89 points the season before, with no major departures. Why did that summer need to be brilliant? All he needed was a midfielder, which Woody dropped the ball with, but that's not an excuse for what happened in his tenure.

Both he and LVG made the mistake of thinking we could sign whoever we wanted, and they had unrealistic targets like Bale, Ronaldo, Fabregas. But Moyes is the only one who couldn't really blame transfers or a poor squad, however.

I think all knew that squad was just about done and a huge RVP sticking plaster along with Fergie dragged it to that title.

Look where all those players were 12 months later.

 

[RuudTom83]

Get in Simeone/Conte

Give them full power to sack off the babies that constantly down tools, stop obeying team orders etc that we see year in, year out.

If we aren't going to play attractive football (we haven't for 10 years) then you may aswell get a manager who will at least rid the club of the problem makers. (Besides the board obviously)

Hmm doesn't really work like that, unless you want to waste even more millions paying players to go out on loan. The board couldn't even get rid of Maguire and McTom, next case study will be Sancho.

Even if you could move unwanted players on, what happens when the kids or squad players fail.

Best way forward right now it to leave the manager and players to sort it out. No one is getting a clean slate or an easy way out. They made the mess so they can clean it up.

Then if/when the ownership changes you can begin to restructure the background staff.

There is no easy fix or one man will charge everything cure.

 

[stefan92]

I'm not sure that is a consensus opinion among Bayern Munich fans.

Not a Bayern fan, but fully agree with you... they burned through managers, DoFs, scouts, had a CEO sent to jail all during the last decade while consistently challenging in the CL and dominating German football.

I think it's more a case of (and similar to Real) having standards and getting very nervous the second they look like they might not win everything and firing everyone who seems to be responsible for this.

 

[RedRocket9908]

Andy Goldstein has got it spot on here, I agree with him 100% except for maybe the Unai Emery bit.

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[Iker Quesadillas]

Same way a brighton does at a much lower level.

With regards to this, I'll just quote from an article in The Athletic from earlier this year.

On sophisticated approaches:

We can look at Brighton & Hove Albion, who are making such a positive impression in their sixth season since promotion, and Brentford, impressing in their second. Both clubs are admired for the sophisticated approach they have taken over the long term — defying the odds not only by reaching the Premier League but by surviving and thriving, too, thanks to a sophisticated recruitment strategy, a distinct, modern playing style and a unified sense of purpose on and off the pitch.

But Southampton were once held up as the model of innovation and smart recruitment. So were Leicester, who won the Premier League in 2016 and, after a tricky comedown, re-emerged under Brendan Rodgers, winning the FA Cup and twice narrowly missing out on Champions League qualification. Both are now at serious risk of relegation, as are West Ham, who finished sixth and seventh in the previous two seasons.

Both Southampton and Leicester were relegated.

More on approach:

A certain mystique was credited to Southampton’s “black box”, a huge scouting database and video suite based in a windowless room at the club’s Staplewood training ground.
[...] But that approach — though usually described as self-sustaining — is unlikely to work indefinitely. You can’t outsmart the market indefinitely. Southampton soon found other clubs, with bigger budgets, looking and shopping in the same markets and their own hit rate started to drop.

On structure:

Chaudhari recalls being commissioned to produce a report on Southampton for a potential investor in the club. “Yes, they had been excellent at youth development, talent development and trading, but a lot of that was down to individuals who were at the club at the time, like Les Reed and Paul Mitchell, as opposed to being something in the DNA of the club,” he says. “For a club to really sustain that kind of success, those ideas really need to be institutionalised within the club rather than in the heads of individuals.”

The point on institutionalised ideas versus individuals is particularly relevant to City.

Their director of football is Txiki Begiristain. He and Guardiola played together at Barcelona, they both trained and learned under Johan Cruyff. Begiristain was later hired by Joan Laporta as director of football, on the recommendation of Johan Cruyff. Begiristain later interviewed Guardiola for the job as Barcelona B team manager, and then recommended him as first team manager to Cruyff and Laporta, who hired him. That is the 'structure' that brought him to City: his decade-long friendships.

Begiristain is 59 years old, he's unlikely to be at City in 10 years. So the question is, are they institutionalised ideas or do they simply have good individuals?

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Surprising you don't see the point they're making.

What am I missing? The main thesis is "There isn't a qualified enough guy readily available to replace him right now so we might as well stick it out and see if he can turn it around" no?

Because if that's the case, I just fundamentally disagree with refusing to solve one problem just because another obvious solution might not be immediate. But that's also why I would have sold a vast majority of our squad after they downed tools with Ole/Ragnick and completely refreshed the senior squad. We would have been much worse last year but at least it would have completely eradicated the rot that has set in over years of issues with the veterans here.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Not that we aren’t shit, but if we had a full strength team, and City were missing Rodri, Gvardiol, Stones, Dias and Walker, I’d say there’s a pretty good chance we would’ve beaten them.

 

[chocolate cloud]

This might sound daft, but surely we should be putting "injury clauses" into player's contracts. This simply can't go on. If injured for 50% of the season, they're gone the next.

 

[IWat]

I think all knew that squad was just about done and a huge RVP sticking plaster along with Fergie dragged it to that title.

Look where all those players were 12 months later.

Yeah, Evra going to Juve is really the only one I can think of where a top tier team ended up wanting them.

 

[UnitedSofa]

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[erikcred]

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This is the kind of thing that'll make the players down tools on the pitch to make ETH listen to chants of "getting sacked in the morning".

Not sure how ETH expects this to motivate players if his tactics, strategy and team selection are shite. They've realized this and it's only a matter of time before he's gone. Rashford and Bruno are probably saving themselves for the new manager bounce.

 

[Sarni]

Not that we aren’t shit, but if we had a full strength team, and City were missing Rodri, Gvardiol, Stones, Dias and Walker, I’d say there’s a pretty good chance we would’ve beaten them.

I very much doubt it.

 

[Sarni]

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