City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[RedRocket08]

@RedRocket08 my understanding is that there is no trial. There was none for Everton. It's an independent tribunal who make a decision on behalf of the Premier League led by Murray Rosen KC, I think it's three people who make the decision but they can request a hearing and ask for permission to speak to individuals involved etc. Man City have appointed Lord Pannick KC to defend them.

Their obstruction of the case in 2019 is going to cause them a severe headache but the Prem definitely started their investigation earlier, basically when the leaks initially came out.

@GazTheLegend I know I said ‘pre trial’ (I should’ve used different wording because this won’t work like regular courts) but what I mean is that it’s now probably the stage where Pannick and co prepare to present their defence? I just don’t see why this should take years and years to reach a decision when the case is already built, and the tribunal just needs to consider the evidence - Unless City drag this more than necessary (which would be counter productive considering they have ‘irrefutable evidence’)

They will likely be charged for obstruction, but I’d be really interested to see if the actual charges stick. If they are proven, and given City can’t really take this to CAS - would they then consider the actual civil courts system in the UK (at which point there would actually be a trial)?

 

[RedRocket08]

While at present, the PL really ends up with egg on their faces whether City/Chelsea get found guilty or not, what would be a solution to ensure that clubs follow FFP guidelines in future?

I liked Gary Neville’s idea of real time accounting - delays in handing out judgements in cases like this are detrimental because the accused team will continue to be in the sport until proven guilty, proactive auditing on the PL’s part puts a stop to that somewhat.

While theirs is not perfect either, maybe an F1 style cost cap which leaves no space for creative accounting? A limit to what clubs can spend on total transfers and wages that levels the playing field somewhat, so that clubs are profitable in the long run and can invest that money into their facilities/youth development/other ventures. This just makes sure that the money earned by clubs actually stays in England + increases the value of the club.

Similar to how the better teams in F1 are allowed less wind tunnel / testing time maybe a similar rule where the top teams in PL this season are only allowed to promote youth players instead of buying players from outside for the next season? Great for England NT of course, and makes the PL a preferred destination for young players. Of course you’d need regulation on how much transfer fees/salaries you’d pay for young players for this to work well.

 

[Kingofwinners]

While at present, the PL really ends up with egg on their faces whether City/Chelsea get found guilty or not, what would be a solution to ensure that clubs follow FFP guidelines in future?

I liked Gary Neville’s idea of real time accounting - delays in handing out judgements in cases like this are detrimental because the accused team will continue to be in the sport until proven guilty, proactive auditing on the PL’s part puts a stop to that somewhat.

While theirs is not perfect either, maybe an F1 style cost cap which leaves no space for creative accounting? A limit to what clubs can spend on total transfers and wages that levels the playing field somewhat, so that clubs are profitable in the long run and can invest that money into their facilities/youth development/other ventures. This just makes sure that the money earned by clubs actually stay in England + increases

Similar to how the better teams in F1 are allowed less wind tunnel / testing time maybe a similar rule where the top teams in PL this season are only allowed to promote youth players instead of buying players from outside for the next season? Great for England NT of course, and makes the PL a preferred destination for young players. Of course you’d need regulation on how much transfer fees/salaries you’d pay for young players for this to work well.

I’d love something like this, it works very well in American sports. The challenge will be all the money will move to a new league with less onerous rules and I can’t see an appetite for a global solution.

 

[Tincanalley]

Any decision other than demoted to non-league will have close to zero impact on them.

Have people looked at what will happen post such a scenario? I’m sure the consequences of the potential range of punishments has to be looked at. For instance - expulsion. What will happen then? You have this mighty setup, and no league. Will UAE and other like minded nations try and set up an alternative league? How long would it take them to climb back to the top, and could the League put restrictions on that? Would they have to get past some fit owners test?

 

[BristolRuss]

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When you order your Trinity statue from Wish.com

 

[Freak]

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Half of their fan base won’t know who these guys are.

 

[ROFLUTION]

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This is such a huge reminder of what City was and wasn't before cheating and financial doping.

The only history worth remembering is is from the mid 60's - over 50 years ago where the trio won the league in 67/68 (and their other title is all the way back to 36/37.)

Somehow they honour these guys, but there's no statues of players of the current era who are arguably better like Kompany, Aguero, KdB, Silva, etc, They're acting like they have this rich history.

The more they emphasize these guys, when winning back to back titles while cheating, the more ridiculous they look. If I ask a random City-fan out in town (outside of England) who these guys are, they'd all look lost.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

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Saw it earlier. Cracked me up then too.

Fraud of a football club.

 

[SuperiorXI]

That's a blatant copy of our trinity statue

 

[horsechoker]

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Can they copy our form for the last ten years?

 

[T_Model101]

This is such a huge reminder of what City was and wasn't before cheating and financial doping.

The only history worth remembering is is from the mid 60's - over 50 years ago where the trio won the league in 67/68 (and their other title is all the way back to 36/37.)

Somehow they honour these guys, but there's no statues of players of the current era who are arguably better like Kompany, Aguero, KdB, Silva, etc, They're acting like they have this rich history.

The more they emphasize these guys, when winning back to back titles while cheating, the more ridiculous they look. If I ask a random City-fan out in town (outside of England) who these guys are, they'd all look lost.

Oh but they do have statues of some of those, they have statues of Aguero, Silva and Kompany, so along with these, I make it 6.
Is there any club with more statues in the UK/Europe?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

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[Rooney in Paris]

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"Scenes at the Etihad"

Cut to a Terrence Malick film

 

[MrMarcello]

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They look like tap dancers.

 

[rimaldo]

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pep called for more noise, and the four of us responded.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

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All the success and they still can't sell out a FA Cup semi-final ticket allocation in a treble winning season. Can't help but copy us with the trinity statue. Can't get an atmosphere going in their Empti stadium.

Forever in our shadows, bless them. It's funny as they won't even have these intangibles to hang onto when their actual trophies get voided.

 

[Solius]

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[Rooney in Paris]

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Let's not rush things shall we, maybe give them a chance to grab another couple trebles right?

 

[Lyng]

Let's not rush things shall we, maybe give them a chance to grab another couple trebles right?

Its absurd really, especially considering how quickly Everton where dealt with.

 

[Solius]

Its absurd really, especially considering how quickly Everton where dealt with.

Everton co-operated. City are throwing hundreds of lawyers at it.

 

[Lyng]

Everton co-operated. City are throwing hundreds of lawyers at it.

Thats true enough, but still this has been going on for so long and now you add another year?

 

[CallyRed]

Won't get an outcome this decade

 

[Solius]

Thats true enough, but still this has been going on for so long and now you add another year?

Yeah I want it to happen as much as anyone but I’d rather they be thorough and go through the steps to punish City for their lack of co-operation on top of everything. Rather that than them rushing it and not pursuing certain charges just because City are making it difficult.

 

[LordSpud]

Apparently the decision might not come until the end of the 24/25 season which just so happens to coincide with the end of Pep's contract

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Its absurd really, especially considering how quickly Everton where dealt with.

I don't think Everton's decision has got anything to do with this. It was one charge vs 115, they cooperated, it was a different set of circumstances.

It's like comparing the efficiency in dealing with a speeding infraction vs a trial murder - they just can't be dealt with in the same manner.

It's still rather insane that it is this long, though City's delaying tactics seem to be very efficient. The equivalent of a tactical foul on the halfway line.

I find it amusing that their public stance is that they want it dealt with asap though.

 

[Galactic]

Perhaps they are waiting for us to get new owners.

 

[MegadrivePerson]

Its absurd really, especially considering how quickly Everton where dealt with.

The Everton case was a lot more open and straightforward.

 

[Statue of Limitations]

Even if a decision goes against them, they will spend years appealing it - I don't expect much justice here to be honest.

 

[Fortitude]

Everton co-operated. City are throwing hundreds of lawyers at it.

Just had a visualisation of Mansour literally fecking lawyers at the FA like a game of Arkanoid, the 115 charges being the wall.

 

[Adisa]

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Note that that date is the earliest a decision can come.

 

[Adisa]

We could easily still be on this issue in 2030.

 

[Taribo's Gap]

Note that that date is the earliest a decision can come.

Could be a situation where we are two decades from the time of the initial breaches before it is all finally resolved.

 

[Adisa]

Could be a situation where we are two decades from the time of the initial breaches before it is all finally resolved.

City could be under new owners but then. I don’t know to what degree that would be justice.

 

[Pes6Monster]

Abu Dhabi will buy out the remaining Glazers out before this farce is concluded:

city win with a massive paper bag

 

[Taribo's Gap]

City could be under new owners but then. I don’t know to what degree that would be justice.

Even if that happened, in the case of a judgment against City with severe penalties attached you would at least get a deterrent effect which would presumably factor into the calculus of other clubs and owners. I would argue that that has already happened to an extent. It might not feel like much in the way of justice vis-a-vis the original perpetrators, but there would still a point.

 

[matherto]

While at present, the PL really ends up with egg on their faces whether City/Chelsea get found guilty or not, what would be a solution to ensure that clubs follow FFP guidelines in future?

I liked Gary Neville’s idea of real time accounting - delays in handing out judgements in cases like this are detrimental because the accused team will continue to be in the sport until proven guilty, proactive auditing on the PL’s part puts a stop to that somewhat.

While theirs is not perfect either, maybe an F1 style cost cap which leaves no space for creative accounting? A limit to what clubs can spend on total transfers and wages that levels the playing field somewhat, so that clubs are profitable in the long run and can invest that money into their facilities/youth development/other ventures. This just makes sure that the money earned by clubs actually stays in England + increases the value of the club.

Similar to how the better teams in F1 are allowed less wind tunnel / testing time maybe a similar rule where the top teams in PL this season are only allowed to promote youth players instead of buying players from outside for the next season? Great for England NT of course, and makes the PL a preferred destination for young players. Of course you’d need regulation on how much transfer fees/salaries you’d pay for young players for this to work well.

Feel like the limit should be set lower than the lowest clubs revenue too for maximum fairness, but you’d need a Europe/worldwide agreement for that otherwise other leagues would just pick off all of our players.

If you set it at ours for instance a ton of clubs wouldn’t be able to spend that much.

 

[Taribo's Gap]

Feel like the limit should be set lower than the lowest clubs revenue too for maximum fairness, but you’d need a Europe/worldwide agreement for that otherwise other leagues would just pick off all of our players.

If you set it at ours for instance a ton of clubs wouldn’t be able to spend that much.

It's a very, very difficult problem to solve.

 

[Berbaclass]

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[JagUTD]

We could easily still be on this issue in 2030.

Unfortunately you are probably right. And they'll probably reach those 2030 charges by the end of this season.

 

[JagUTD]

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Will make the complete annihilation of Manchester City even sweeter. Hope they pile all their trophies, their thousands of statues and Oasis memorabilia in the middle of the Etihad and burn the lot while images of Sir Alex appear on every screen, the one where he's just laughing as a yellow ticker reads "feck around and find out"