Chelsea 2023/24 season thread.

[Rnd898]

We’ve usually had a good performance dropped in the middle of the bad ones which has helped him.

Yeah, pretty much this. Lately it seems we have one good performance followed by a terrible one.

In the last month or so the Arsenal, Spurs, City and Brighton games have all been good in my opinion, but some of the performances around those matches (Brentford, Newcastle, Man Utd) have been shockingly bad. The lack of consistency is definitely a worry but also probably something to be expected with such an inexperienced squad.

Over the next weeks our fixtures seem a bit easier than the ones in the last couple months so let's see if we can build up any kind of form going into it. The next six games are Everton, Sheff Utd, Wolves, Palace, Luton and Fulham which on paper should all be winnable games. Anything less than 14 points from those games would be a huge disappointment.

 

[WeePat]

I think it boils down to nobody really caring about Chelsea. Man Utd, ten years into their steep decline, still generate headlines.

I mean I guess it depends on the kind of news you consume doesn't it? To me it feels like there so much noise around Chelsea. A lot of of the time I don't even realise there's a storm brewing around United until I visit the United section of the caf, but then I'm much more dialled in to news and stories about Chelsea than United so it makes sense. If I wasn't on here, I'd probably feel like 'wow United are lowkey getting off easy for their CL performances this season' but since I am, I see all the noise and scrutiny.

 

[M Bison]

I think it boils down to nobody really caring about Chelsea. Man Utd, ten years into their steep decline, still generate headlines.

I never look at the Chelsea forums or any form of social media, but do they have the same threads/polls about sacking the manager?

 

[WeePat]

Yeah, pretty much this. Lately it seems we have one good performance followed by a terrible one.

In the last month or so the Arsenal, Spurs, City and Brighton games have all been good in my opinion, but some of the performances around those matches (Brentford, Newcastle, Man Utd) have been shockingly bad. The lack of consistency is definitely a worry but also probably something to be expected with such an inexperienced squad.

Over the next weeks our fixtures seem a bit easier than the ones in the last couple months so let's see if we can build up any kind of form going into it. The next six games are Everton, Sheff Utd, Wolves, Palace, Luton and Fulham which on paper should all be winnable games. Anything less than 14 points from those games would be a huge disappointment.

Have you seen our record against bottom half teams?

 

[M Bison]

I mean I guess it depends on the kind of news you consume doesn't it? To me it feels like there so much noise around Chelsea. A lot of of the time I don't even realise there's a storm brewing around United until I visit the United section of the caf, but then I'm much more dialled in to news and stories about Chelsea than United so it makes sense. If I wasn't on here, I'd probably feel like 'wow United are lowkey getting off easy for their CL performances this season' but since I am, I see all the noise and scrutiny.

I think that was my initial question, are the noise levels the same and is it just that i see Utd news and not Chelsea so that makes sense. Are the chelsea forums the same with the repeated threads on sacking the manager etc?

 

[WeePat]

I never look at the Chelsea forums or any form of social media, but do they have the same threads/polls about sacking the manager?

Yes, we do and so far the support for Poch remains strong. I mean it has only 4 months or so, so I'd expect nothing less. There are pockets of the fanbase that want him gone but I'd guess they were never fans of his appointment to begin with.

 

[WeePat]

I think that was my initial question, are the noise levels the same and is it just that i see Utd news and not Chelsea so that makes sense. Are the chelsea forums the same with the repeated threads on sacking the manager etc?

No idea about Chelsea forums. I don't visit any of them. On twitter though, yeah there's very loud discontent but a lot of it is either aimed at certain players (Jackson, Mudryk) or Boehly.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Easy to say otherwise after yesterday but they are clearly a much, much better side than last season.

We played as well as we have done in a while and it still could have been a draw.

I think Poch might actually be doing an excellent job, desperately needs a striker but they have something about them.

 

[1905]

So nothing like us then?
League wise Onana isn’t even shakey and I wouldn’t say we’re disorganised at all? Whisper it but our defensive record is looking at a couple of good games away from equalling the best in the league. I think we’re third as it stands but there is a 3 way tie at 1 which cheats the stat a little bit.
There’s a quality problem but I don’t see us all over the place forgetting what to do.
Chelsea are nothing like us, I can’t even tell you what Chelsea’s game plan even is anymore to be honest.
Our fanbase falls into the trap of equating us with sides we beat or finish above because of the woe is me attitude we’ve developed.

Our fans were saying similar things earlier on in the season. Sanchez hasn’t been shaky, before the City match (which wasn’t long ago) we also had one of the best defensive records in the league and didn’t look as all over the place as we have recently. The comparisons are possibly a bit dated due to your recent form but its hard to deny there were similarities at different points in the season.

I understand you dislike us and don’t want to be compared to us in any way, but trust me we aren’t exactly thrilled to be compared to you lot either! Both poor sides if we’re honest, our lows have just been pathetically bad compared to yours.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Enzo has been good this season. He’ll never justify his price tag unless he goes on some kind of crazy Bellingham-esque Ballon d’Or worthy run where he’s scoring in every single game. So I just judge him on his actual performances that I see with my own eyes and he’s having a good individual season and I’m so happy we signed him.

I used to think Caicedo and Enzo were perfectly complimentary based on their styles before we signed Caicedo but it’s become evident that they both, but especially Caicedo, need a 3rd midfielder in there to have a better structure around them. Caicedo had way too much ground to cover by himself and he’s no Ngolo Kante. That was on Poch I think, though it doesn’t help that none of Gallagher, Ugochukwu or Lavia were available last night. Don’t think we had a single option on the bench that could have slotted into the Gallagher role, who looks more and more like an undroppable asset.

Is there a lack of creativity in the midfield? None of Enzo, Caicedo or Lavia have creativity as their primary attribute.

Also, at what point do you feel that Chelsea fans could turn on Boehly? There's too much money wasted on attackers who aren't really it. I have a feeling that if Nkunku doesn't hit the ground running or has a Jackson/Sterling or Mudryk like start, it could get really ugly.

 

[FootballHQ]

Yeah, pretty much this. Lately it seems we have one good performance followed by a terrible one.

In the last month or so the Arsenal, Spurs, City and Brighton games have all been good in my opinion, but some of the performances around those matches (Brentford, Newcastle, Man Utd) have been shockingly bad. The lack of consistency is definitely a worry but also probably something to be expected with such an inexperienced squad.

Over the next weeks our fixtures seem a bit easier than the ones in the last couple months so let's see if we can build up any kind of form going into it. The next six games are Everton, Sheff Utd, Wolves, Palace, Luton and Fulham which on paper should all be winnable games. Anything less than 14 points from those games would be a huge disappointment.

Wolves away feels one you'll lose 1-0, Wolves will low block you and score on the break. Indeed that happened last season and their form at Molineux since September is very good.

If Luton play like they did v Arsenal and Liverpool I think they can get a draw as you're vulnerable on set pieces.

Others you should win....

To even be in contention for 7th Chelsea need to win loads of games second half of the season and I just don't see it happening. Your best bet is to go all in for the FA cup as if you win that then there's a winning mentality starting to develop with the younger elements of the squad. Also still in league cup with some favourites out so basically Poch needs to deliver in one of those competitions.

 

[cyberman]

Our fans were saying similar things earlier on in the season. Sanchez hasn’t been shaky, before the City match (which wasn’t long ago) we also had one of the best defensive records in the league and didn’t look as all over the place as we have recently. The comparisons are possibly a bit dated due to your recent form but its hard to deny there were similarities at different points in the season.

I understand you dislike us and don’t want to be compared to us in any way, but trust me we aren’t exactly thrilled to be compared to you lot either! Both poor sides if we’re honest, our lows have just been pathetically bad compared to yours.

It’s nothing to do with not liking Chelsea, I think our poor start in the league has been held against us now for too long. I don’t think Chelsea are a big game anymore (no offence) but all the games we’ve been criticised for are big games away from home bar City. Liverpool may be in the same boat as us in terms of seemingly playing every good opposition away from home but we’re being judged on games that few teams actually win who are even better than we are.
You lost half of your first 6 games and only beat Luton, I don’t remember any Chelsea fan optimism?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It’s nothing to do with not liking Chelsea, I think our poor start in the league has been held against us now for too long. I don’t think Chelsea are a big game anymore (no offence) but all the games we’ve been criticised for are big games away from home bar City. Liverpool may be in the same boat as us in terms of seemingly playing every good opposition away from home but we’re being judged on games that few teams actually win who are even better than we are.
You lost half of your first 6 games and only beat Luton, I don’t remember any Chelsea fan optimism?

That's not true. We've also got deserved stick for a shambolic league cup defeat at home vs Newcastle, losing to Galatasaray at home, losing to Crystal Palace at home and losing to Brighton at home.

 

[Bwuk]

I just look at that Chelsea side and think it’s a complete mess. I’d only take Caicedo & Palmer at United from it.

I think Reece James being captain sums them up. Can look brilliant, but injured & suspended so often he can’t be relied upon.

 

[WeePat]

Is there a lack of creativity in the midfield? None of Enzo, Caicedo or Lavia have creativity as their primary attribute.

Also, at what point do you feel that Chelsea fans could turn on Boehly? There's too much money wasted on attackers who aren't really it. I have a feeling that if Nkunku doesn't hit the ground running or has a Jackson/Sterling or Mudryk like start, it could get really ugly.

Enzo can be that, and he has been that for us. When you pair him with Palmer, and eventually Nkunku plus Reece James from RB, there's more than enough creativity in the team. If Poch can structure the team in a way that gets the best out of those players, then we have a team worth it's salt. At the moment, it still feels like Poch is mixing and matching lineups (some of it forced through injuries).

The mood has been down on Boehly and the ownership for a while now. The whole Potter fiasco and the depressing way last season ended with Lamps just overseeing loss after loss left a sour taste in everyone's mouths. It meant that after a summer of trimming the squad down and hiring Poch, there was an expectation to be better. I think performances have been better but results haven't followed. We'll see how the season unfolds but a second consecutive midtable finish, after all the money spent, it'll be interesting to see the fan reaction but also if they stick or twist with Poch.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I just look at that Chelsea side and think it’s a complete mess. I’d only take Caicedo & Palmer at United from it.

I think Reece James being captain sums them up. Can look brilliant, but injured & suspended so often he can’t be relied upon.

He was so poor last night. I was shitting myself a bit when he was subbed on instead of mop head but he somehow made them worse.

 

[FootballHQ]

Don't even need any FFP investigations. Chelsea being owned by Boehly is a 20 point deduction every season judging by last 18 months.

 

[WeePat]

That's not true. We've also got deserved stick for a shambolic league cup defeat at home vs Newcastle, losing to Galatasaray at home, losing to Crystal Palace at home and losing to Brighton at home.

Not only that, but even some of your wins, some of your own fans were deeply unhappy with what they were seeing on the pitch despite the narrow wins (Wolves at home, Burnley away, Luton at home etc).

 

[WeePat]

Don't even need any FFP investigations. Chelsea being owned by Boehly is a 20 point deduction every season judging by last 18 months.

I used to not have anything against Villa, but you're making it very difficult to not root hard for Villa's downfall

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not only that, but even some of your wins, some of your own fans were deeply unhappy with what they were seeing on the pitch despite the narrow wins (Wolves at home, Burnley away, Luton at home etc).

Yup. Got out of jail against Brentford, with two goals in injury time. Against Burnley we had 38% possession ffs.

 

[1905]

It’s nothing to do with not liking Chelsea, I think our poor start in the league has been held against us now for too long. I don’t think Chelsea are a big game anymore (no offence) but all the games we’ve been criticised for are big games away from home bar City. Liverpool may be in the same boat as us in terms of seemingly playing every good opposition away from home but we’re being judged on games that few teams actually win who are even better than we are.
You lost half of your first 6 games and only beat Luton, I don’t remember any Chelsea fan optimism?

That’s fair enough. Your Champions League campaign has probably had more of an impact on people’s thoughts on the season than the league has.

edit: and what @WeePat said. Some of your wins were far from convincing in the league.

If there was any optimism around Chelsea it was that our defence wasn’t half bad, so if we could actually finish some our chances then things could start looking better. Turns out we still can’t finish but have also turned into Derby 08 at the back.

 

[GoonerBear]

I think their inconsistency in performance (not even result) makes it hard to judge Chelsea right now. It's true they played decent to well most games even if results didn't match performances, & especially against City, Arsenal & Liverpool, but those were home games.

When they've went to Newcastle & Utd, they've been poor & thoroughly outplayed. Spurs as a 90 minutes you just can't analyse because it was such a crazy game.

So, honestly have no idea what to think about them, i've no idea if they are on the right track or not, as the last 2 away games must have been quite sobering for them.

 

[FootballHQ]

I used to not have anything against Villa, but you're making it very difficult to not root hard for Villa's downfall

He's been a terrible owner though compared to what Abramovich did even if some of the quick managerial sackings caused huge debate when they happened.

Until Chelsea win something again or make CL the endless amount of signings in a specific profile will remain a big question mark.

I do still rate Pochettino. It's clear it's going to be the same as when he went in at Spurs and he needed a season just to change the squad around.

Reminds me of Chelsea in early 2000s, lots of decent attacking players but didn't have the grit to dig in so fell well short in the league back then.

 

[cyberman]

That's not true. We've also got deserved stick for a shambolic league cup defeat at home vs Newcastle, losing to Galatasaray at home, losing to Crystal Palace at home and losing to Brighton at home.

To be fair league cup was a rotated side with 8 changes and I should include Brighton in that statement even though it was at home.
Everything was built off of that Spurs / Arsenal / Bayern and Brighton 2 week spell that we still can’t shake.
Every time we win it’s blatant confirmation bias of wait until they play the next big team as they point to 3 weeks later in the Calendar which, (unluckily) 90 percent of the time , is a big game away from home which not many top sides do well in. And the games we do win is criticised even though these very same teams are doing the exact same to the other top sides.
I still stand by the point I made at the time. If those games were spread out throughout a season instead of constant big games that built pressure off of the close loss from the game before this team would be seen in a different light. Everything after that run should and probably was scrutinised correctly but that 2 week period coloured everything and continues to do so

 

[cyberman]

That’s fair enough. Your Champions League campaign has probably had more of an impact on people’s thoughts on the season than the league has.

edit: and what @WeePat said. Some of your wins were far from convincing in the league.

If there was any optimism around Chelsea it was that our defence wasn’t half bad, so if we could actually finish some our chances then things could start looking better. Turns out we still can’t finish but have also turned into Derby 08 at the back.

Nobody is winning convincingly against the teams we beat though. Arsenal and Liverpool are top with similar wins against those sides as we have.
This league is a battle this year

 

[VP89]

Nobody is winning convincingly against the teams we beat though. Arsenal and Liverpool are top with similar wins against those sides as we have.
This league is a battle this year

Yeah it is a bit tiresome to hear the "your wins aren't convincing" argument.

Brighton skimmed past Forrest was it? Liverpool skim through Fulham. Arsenal skim Brentford and Luton. City have been rocky themselves. All the favourite sides are having unconvincing wins.

I actually think we had deserved victories vs Luton Fulham Everton and Chelsea. 3 clean sheets out of 4 too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

To be fair league cup was a rotated side with 8 changes and I should include Brighton in that statement even though it was at home.
Everything was built off of that Spurs / Arsenal / Bayern and Brighton 2 week spell that we still can’t shake.
Every time we win it’s blatant confirmation bias of wait until they play the next big team as they point to 3 weeks later in the Calendar which, (unluckily) 90 percent of the time , is a big game away from home which not many top sides do well in. And the games we do win is criticised even though these very same teams are doing the exact same to the other top sides.
I still stand by the point I made at the time. If those games were spread out throughout a season instead of constant big games that built pressure off of the close loss from the game before this team would be seen in a different light. Everything after that run should and probably was scrutinised correctly but that 2 week period coloured everything and continues to do so

Why are you ignoring all the shite performances against the small teams though? If you were following our season by final scores alone your argument would make sense. But not to anyone who actually watched all those games...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Nobody is winning convincingly against the teams we beat though. Arsenal and Liverpool are top with similar wins against those sides as we have.
This league is a battle this year

If not, how do you explain the fact that all the teams ahead of us in the table have scored nearly twice as many goals as we have? (conceding a similar amount)

 

[cyberman]

Why are you ignoring all the shite performances against the small teams though? If you were following our season by final scores alone your argument would make sense. But not to anyone who actually watched all those games...

I’m not, I’m contextualising them against their fixtures against other sides and it seems if we did convincingly beat them all we would be the best team in the league and we are far from that.
Who is playing well against these sides? You’re clearly not watching or paying attention to how better teams than ourselves are struggling so I don’t get your last point at all. Every time I bring it up in a discussion it’s never addressed and I’m guessing that’s what’s going on here as well.
Fans place United on this island then it’s feigned shock as to how we were only 5 (?) off the top last week or 3 off City today as if these teams are mowing down the teams our fanbase somehow thinks is below us and it’s some mathematical marvel.

 

[cyberman]

If not, how do you explain the fact that all the teams ahead of us in the table have scored nearly twice as many goals as we have? (conceding a similar amount)

Because a 4-3 win is as unconvincing as 1-0?
Same argument, explain how our defensive record is creeping up near the top sides after that 2 week period of conceding 8 goals in 3 games?

 

[duffer]

If not, how do you explain the fact that all the teams ahead of us in the table have scored nearly twice as many goals as we have? (conceding a similar amount)

VAR screwing you over. It's the only possible explanation.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Because a 4-3 win is as unconvincing as 1-0?
Same argument, explain how our defensive record is creeping up near the top sides after that 2 week period of conceding 8 goals in 3 games?

So you’re just gonna ignore the fact that the teams with double our goals haven’t conceded any more than us? I can save you the maths if you want. The PL table has a column labelled “goal difference”

 

[WeePat]

I also have to say, the time has finally come. It’s time. Thiago Silva needs to be dropped. There’s absolutely no need for a gem like Badiashile to sit on the bench for him while he stinks up the place.

 

[WeePat]

We still created loads of chances for what I’d consider a truly awful and shambolic performance. By my count there was at least 3 absolute sitters, and further 2 very very good chances.

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[cyberman]

So you’re just gonna ignore the fact that the teams with double our goals haven’t conceded any more than us? I can save you the maths if you want. The PL table has a column labelled “goal difference”

We conceded 11 of our 18 goals in the 4 games v the top teams we’ve faced in the league this season. That means we’ve conceded 7 in the other 11 against the so called lower teams we should be comfortably beating, those are the teams we’re discussing here so feck knows why you’re being sarky. We’ve gone from one of the worst defensive records in the league to looking up near the top.

Is there a separate column on that table that has GD for teams that we should beat easier than we should?
Got a hint or link for that?
feck I’ll go through Arsenal against the same opposition, why not. The team at the top of the table should be easily beating these teams right?
Lost v Everton
Drew v 10 man Fulham
Drew with Chelsea
Conceded 3 v Luton and need a 97 minute winner
1 goal win v Wolves
1 goal win v Brentford
3-1 win v Burnley v 10 men after Burnley deservedly equalised
Lost v Newcastle
Comfortably beat Sheffield United
1 goal win v Forest

I’ll do the second best team in the league next if you want

What’s happening? Is this some form of gaslighting you’re attempting here?

 

[Semper Fudge]

I never look at the Chelsea forums or any form of social media, but do they have the same threads/polls about sacking the manager?

There are about 10 people on the main Chelsea forum.

 

[caid]

We still created loads of chances for what I’d consider a truly awful and shambolic performance. By my count there was at least 3 absolute sitters, and further 2 very very good chances.

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I dont think there was any sitters. Jackson should have scored or done better at 0.40 but i wouldn't call it a sitter. Couple of back post headers the keeper should deal with and the enzo non touch from the cross (was a good run, would have been a nicely taken goal). Rest are barely chances.
Not that we were perfect, a less inept team would have probably made better use of some of them counters.

 

[TheReligion]

We still created loads of chances for what I’d consider a truly awful and shambolic performance. By my count there was at least 3 absolute sitters, and further 2 very very good chances.

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Wasn’t your xG 1.4 to United’s 4.6?

By that United should have scored at least 5.

The game was open in parts however without our first choice core this wasn’t surprising.

 

[ForFuchsSake]

Easy to say otherwise after yesterday but they are clearly a much, much better side than last season.

We played as well as we have done in a while and it still could have been a draw.

I think Poch might actually be doing an excellent job, desperately needs a striker but they have something about them.

This is insane. They’re 10th after spending a billion pounds. New into the job or not, he is definitely not doing an ‘excellent’ job.

They might, and probably will, improve but if this resembles ‘excellence’, the bar is incredibly low

 

[FootballHQ]

I also have to say, the time has finally come. It’s time. Thiago Silva needs to be dropped. There’s absolutely no need for a gem like Badiashile to sit on the bench for him while he stinks up the place.

Looks like age is finally catching up with the old warrior. Given he'd be 40 next season surely has to be a plan there regardless of form?

Perhaps one option is to go back to 3-5-2 and give him another CB to cover.