If it was being done in my name, I'd also be in denial about lots of things. If it's true it wouldn't be inconsistent with what we've seen so far. War crimes right left and center.
Israel-Palestine | Genocide in Gaza
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
Right, where's the evidence?
I'm not blind. the IDF are no angels. But that's not something that they do. Pure and simple.
I get how the IDF looks like from the outside. In reality, it's a bunch of people most of whom simply believe they are doing what they must in order to protect their country, their family, their friends and their way of life - even if some of the things they do is way over the top and way too deadly. But arresting people and then just killing them in masses, that's a whole new level. That's not something an average IDF soldier or officer can find reason in. And it's the sort of illegal order soldiers are taught they must refuse if they are given it.
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The thing is I recall that the same poster had, in the aftermath of the 7th October attacks, admitted that he wants to see security for Israel no matter what the cost would be for Gazans. I understand the human need to deny the plausibility of horrific reports when they are committed by one's own 'side', especially when it's for a cause that a person believes to be noble and right. But there should also be the recognition that when one lends their support of a campaign regardless of the cost to the other side, then these are the sort of crimes that such a campaign may entail. So when detailed accusations of such a crime emerge they cannot be dismissed in such a way.
Here's a statement from the UN Human Rights Office made on one possible mass execution. It states it has confirmed that the killings occurred, and demands an investigation into how they were killed: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupi...rights-office-opt-unlawful-killings-gaza-city.
From a couple of weeks ago, here is an NGO statement reporting that Palestinians had been detained and later executed, some after their release: https://reliefweb.int/report/occupi...cting-field-executions-and-mass-killings-enar
Regarding how the IDF would look like to the outside, the exact same word-for-word description could be used to describe militants in Hamas, and for many armies or armed groups, so they're not immune from committing war crimes regardless of how just they believe their cause to be. An average IDF soldier may not be trigger-happy in other times, but after the 7th October and the terrifying rhetoric by those who are running this war, it's pretty easy to see that the sort of environment in which mass executions occur has been entirely enabled.
As I wrote in another post, the IDF have gone far beyond normal conflict red lines and serious voices have warned them they're acting in a manner detrimental to their own interest, and that's why I don't believe that the idea that they just wouldn't commit mass killings 'because it's not something they'd do'. I would've found the idea that the IDF shoots 3 unarmed men waving a white flag who turned out to be hostages to be completely implausible, but it happened. Is it so unbelievable that in this same environment the IDF wouldn't commit mass executions?
Don't know about the whole detention camps and mass killings per se.
But your write up of the IDF is something. There are literally articles, videos and podcasts about ex IDF saying what the were trained to do. Including vids etc of current ones laughing and sharing atrocities.
I'll probably get grief for this again, but I don't know how to put pics up on here, and I don't want to because they are awful. However I have pics sent to me of people zip tied and shot in the head on the ground in Gaza. Men, women and children.
People arrested and tortured and then shot.
The IDF are committing war crimes and not this nicey nice defenders of their way or life you want to portray.
I'm still not seeing any sort of evidence.
I certainly won't rule out the odd soldier going off book, I'm sure it happens, but taking people into concentration camps and then mass executing them requires planning from above. It's not something the odd hot-headed soldier can do. And it's very, very different to a soldier hastily shooting the Israeli hostages last weekend.
I'm sure they are.
And some of those soldiers are seeing the war in Gaza as an opportunity of revenge, and also see everyone in Gaza as Hamas terrorrists or at least Hamas supporters.
I cannot deny that, and I won't.
I'm just saying the concentration camp and mass execution story is a lie.
And yes, most of the IDF soldiers are just ordinary, non-evil people, who believe they are doing what they must following October 7.
How do we know how many Brits have gone over to take part of the IOFs crimes?
Can they just return to the UK afterwards?
Can they just return to the UK afterwards?
The way you framed that gives Hamas excuse for just about anything they ever did or were willing to do. They had their fair share of events like that throughout history even before October 7, and especially after.
And that's probably why this is been going on for ages and will go on forever.
Both sides feel they are 100% in the right.
What about before October the 7th?
Or do we ignore the testimonies of IDF soldiers when they say they used the Innocents in the West Bank as "training" for real events that might occur?
You can check back when 10.7 happened. I was amongst the first to condemn Hamas. I still have a strong dislike of Hamas but I'm currently not calling them terrorists. The real terrorists are Israel and the IDF from their own testimonies backed by the terrorist USA.
So being a terrorist is a zero-sum game?
I think it is eminently fair & currently accurate to call all three parties 'terrorists.'
I don't. The reason is simple. Hamas are an Israeli Govt invention. As has been evidenced many times over on here from statements by likes of Netanyahu himself.
Thee isn't three parties. The Israeli Govt, IDF and Hamas are one.
I do not ignore. But it's still not a mass execution of people captured and held in a prison camp.
Oh dear.
There are witnesses, times, location, and UN-confirmed killings in one instance. There are over a dozen bodies that had been rotting for days riddled with bullets in another. What kind of evidence would suffice: video footage of the act? If it has reached a stage where the UNOHCR disseminates a press release demanding an investigation into a specific event, it probably isn't your typical emotive rumour or misinformation from a war zone.
I'm not doubting that people died, innocent people. But were they captured, put into camps, and then, when they clearly posed no danger what so ever, executed in masses?
I absolutely do believe that this could've been done because I consider the above reports to be credible. I guess that in the absence of elements such as footage or on-the-ground reports from international press then you are unlikely to be convinced, but I would be curious to know if you believe that any of what we have seen in Gaza has crossed the threshold of the kind of acts you see the IDF as capable of committing, and if the answer is yes, then why would this be beyond imagination?
No, I do not.
The mass execution claim of prisoners, however, would be crossing that threshold. Massively.
A story went sorta viral on a Jordanian getting murdered in Hamburg for his pro-Palestinian sentiment.
Hamburg police respond:
Hamburg police respond:
It's a crazy World we live in.
We all want peace.
We all want peace.
There's no threshold, they have been given carte blanch from the Americans after the latter's clownery in the UN.
People should follow what's happening now in Al Maghazi and Al Bureij to see that this "army" is operating outside any boundaries.
No we don’t, just look around you.
I should rephrase it as, 'I want there to be peace'
It is both sad and true what you say... not everyone does want peace
I should rephrase it as, 'I want there to be peace'
It is both sad and true what you say... not everyone does want peace
Same here my friend, but it is not in our nature as a species. I wish it was.
Another refugee camp hit in a targeted strike no doubt. 70 dead.
If this is some other nation the condemnation would be on another level.
But it's Israel so meh...
There will be rise in terrorism. These last few months would be a breeding ground for the next decades, and not just in the US but all over the world.
But it's Israel so meh...
There will be rise in terrorism. These last few months would be a breeding ground for the next decades, and not just in the US but all over the world.
The story may be false.
But two months ago you were steadfastly denying that the IDF bombed the Al-Ahli hospital, and said if they did it must have been accidental because it wasn't "in Israel's interests" to do such a thing. They've bombed many hospitals since then. So it's possible your assessments of what the IDF will and won't do are inaccurate.
The whole of Gaza is a prison camp and 20k dead IS a mass execution.
Oh dear is right. Your mask has slipped
Surely there will be laws that require some kind of screening and involvement of the justice system.
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Nothing to date.
Any other conflict then likes of SO15 get involved. To date nothing for IOF according to reports.
A petition was done in 2014 asking parliament to look into this.
This part of the response is telling:
Section 4 of the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 makes it an offence for a British subject to enlist in the military of a foreign state at war with another foreign state with which the UK is at peace. That prohibition does not extend, however, to enlistment in a foreign government’s forces which are engaged in a civil war or combating terrorism or internal uprisings. The Occupied Palestinian Territories are not currently recognised as a state by the UK. Israel has taken military action against individuals and groups within Gaza but has not made a declaration of war. In these circumstances the 1870 Act would not apply.
I edited my original comment, but what you point out is concerning. Surely this should be updated considering the genocide taking place. Is there a new petition?
Not sure if there is a new one. ICJP have news on these matters so might be worth looking at what they are currently reporting.
Strangely the Met police have been reported as visiting Palestinian houses in UK, those with family in Palestine. But nothing for IDF reservists. Seems they have special status.
But that's not the story and claim posted here. Is it?
My response to you started with
Don't know about the whole detention camps and mass killings per se.
But your write up of the IDF is something...
As in was not really about "the claim"
War is a good business for many
You should have stopped at the first line, because that was the main thing I was talking about. I'm not here to defend the IDF, I know some of the things it's doing is indefensible - I was just pointing out that this isn't some bunch of evil ogres.
And again, the main thing was that someone posted something from Twitter which was just a lie.
There were some links posted to back up the claim. You seemed to have ignored them.
My point was the IDF have form for doing that kind of thing and have been for years. It's part of their training as pointed out by ex IDF.
And sure I agree they are not a bunch of evil ogres. Evil ogres aren't as discriminate and hell bent on killing kids and Innocents.
Also it maybe just my imagination, I'll let others decide, but it seems a few (including you) only come in to respond to certain comments and it's pretty much always a defence of what is becoming indefensible.
It's always "but x doesn't hold any power" when a post is done about X making comments about killing all Palestinians. Or in this case IDF are not evil ogres, totally ignoring the killing of kids just walking, or journalists, or celebrating bombings etc etc.
No, the IDF does not hold people in camps and then executes them.
I've seen lthe inks and claims. I've seen no evidence.