This was very interesting, thank you for posting it.
Israel-Palestine | Genocide in Gaza
- Thread starter esmufc07
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This was very interesting, thank you for posting it.
Baffled Israel thought it is good propaganda/PR for them (showing how detached from reality they are).
Even if I imagine the 7 Oct terrorist attack happens to my country, I would never support wiping out the entire nation of the country launching the terrorist attack.
Wtf is this? Also, wasn't the revised number for October 7th reduced to 695?
My jaw is on the floor.
695 civilians, 373 security forces and 71 foreigners. 1139 total.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...ity-data-reveals-true-picture-of-oct-7-deaths
I know it's not at all new for Putin to attack civilians and hospitals, but with the brazenness that he's doing it in Ukraine this morning it signals to me that the world is entering a new era of state violence that entirely disregards human rights and rules of war, directly as a consequence of the US' carte blanche for Israel, in both its rhetoric and its arms support.
Regardless of all the US' past foreign policy hypocrisies when its supposed championing of human rights clashed with its interests, it still had a semblance of moral authority that gave it legitimacy to serve as the world's police, there was at least a perception that it recognised some sort of threshold to human suffering that--when met--would see it change its approach to achieving whatever interests it had. But this has been so plainly shattered with the manner of its support for Israel during the past three months that I truly think the world is going to be a significantly more dangerous place for the rest of our lives as a result, and to the detriment of long term US power and interest.
The US rallied to try get universal diplomatic support for opposing Putin's invasion of Ukraine and it broadly succeeded in doing so despite some indifference from non-Western states. But the next time a US adversary attacks a US ally, unless a third state has tangible and material interests threatened through another state being attacked, there will be less of an incentive to lend the US the support it needs to combat or undermine such acts. And it's not just governments, the total contrast in the western approach and statements regarding Gaza and Ukraine have put on display for populations in the west and beyond that the universal value of the principles these governments claim to defend depends on who's violating them.
Even if protection of human life and rights was to some extent a charade (for all states), the charade still inhibited the manner in which they could conduct their wars and power, but I fear this has been irreversibly shattered, and the world will be made a permanently more dangerous place for it.
Regardless of all the US' past foreign policy hypocrisies when its supposed championing of human rights clashed with its interests, it still had a semblance of moral authority that gave it legitimacy to serve as the world's police, there was at least a perception that it recognised some sort of threshold to human suffering that--when met--would see it change its approach to achieving whatever interests it had. But this has been so plainly shattered with the manner of its support for Israel during the past three months that I truly think the world is going to be a significantly more dangerous place for the rest of our lives as a result, and to the detriment of long term US power and interest.
The US rallied to try get universal diplomatic support for opposing Putin's invasion of Ukraine and it broadly succeeded in doing so despite some indifference from non-Western states. But the next time a US adversary attacks a US ally, unless a third state has tangible and material interests threatened through another state being attacked, there will be less of an incentive to lend the US the support it needs to combat or undermine such acts. And it's not just governments, the total contrast in the western approach and statements regarding Gaza and Ukraine have put on display for populations in the west and beyond that the universal value of the principles these governments claim to defend depends on who's violating them.
Even if protection of human life and rights was to some extent a charade (for all states), the charade still inhibited the manner in which they could conduct their wars and power, but I fear this has been irreversibly shattered, and the world will be made a permanently more dangerous place for it.
We literally have video by hamas themselves of abuse and the after effects of anal rape; are there still people that don't want to accept it or what?
Given the resources at their disposal, I wonder why/how their propaganda game is so bad/weak/ineffective.
She's a heartless ghoul. I honestly believe she would be as bad or worse than Trump.
Most nations in the West at least but also in the World support them in practice, so how is it ineffective? The hamas propaganda seems to be powerful in the online space as a narrative that does not manifest in practice.
Please, elaborate.
There are popular streamers on platforms, social media, etc, that can make the impression that something is more supported then it really is. The same thing was happenings with the pro Putin propaganda online.
Horrible stuff if true but no actual evidence was presented and the main witness doesn't seem credible at all.
As far as I know, this Apache Hellfire claim has not been corroborated to the extent that Blumenthal claims.
I mean you can look at the last security council vote, every nation voted for the Russian proposal, except the US that voted against. Despite the huge backup from the UK, even they could not vote against. In the UN general assembly the vote was 153 countries voted to stop the fecking war against only 10 countries with only Israel, the US and Austria you recognize the names, the rest are some shitty island in the middle of nowhere.
Brother the UN is not a real thing. If it were, we would not have war in Europe. Don't even get me started on Austria and what they are doing with Schengen or how Turkey is buying gas from Russia or.. The UN is nill and void.
How does that amount to Hamas propaganda though? Its hardly a conspiracy to paint the obvious fact that Israel had killed 20,000 Palestinians, the overwhelming majority civilians, and a substantial number women and children. If anything social reporting is counteracting the heavy pro-Israel bias in the mainstream media.
He's intentionally conflating not only Hamas and Palestinians, but also throwing Putin in the mix to undermine the legitimacy of their cause and downplay Israel's current actions in the Gaza strip.
He's as subtle as a brick through a window though, and his arguments are as dishonest and in bad faith as they come.
Yeah, easily detectable. People here are way too experienced to be sold such things this openly. Even if/when you pamper and pack them differently so that they are less obvious, someone will eventuallly find fallacies in your posts and ask you about them.
I've read many of his posts here, so I already fully knew where he stood.
But for anyone who didn't, "Hamas online propaganda" would be the most obvious red flag you could get, that's why I asked him to further elaborate and obviously didn't get any answer, not that I expected one.
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I get taking sides due to religion, race, family etc... However I just can't fathom the blind following and sheer refusal to condemn their own side and constantly defend Israeli actions and say they are justified. People calling for the removal of Palestinians and like Haley said, they can't be trusted because they will have terrorists amongst the innocent civilians. How is that ok but dare mention any support or understanding for Palestine and its people and you are instantly anti-Semitic.
I said it before, I think this thread here is definitely one of the better, most informative and honest threads I have seen on the internet. Sure it has its faults but for the most part it's a good source for news and discussion from people with differing perspectives and opinions. I read some replies on other threads and they are just beyond comprehension. Either that or they are just mud slinging threads filled with trolls or one dimensional discussions that are devoid of any nuance or understanding of the history of the region and people from there. I find the American Zionists to be incredibly similar to Trump supporters and MAGA nuts. The irony and hypocrisy of that is still bewildering to me though. As is their support for Russia and hatred of Ukraine.
Braindead comment again from an Israeli government official. Send an e-mail, folks!
No matter how critical I am towards Israel, I am on the side of peace and honestly hope to see these two peoples live side by side, in peace, in my lifetime. Both are great peoples.
I understand the Israelis posting here trying to defend their country, and remind us that they suffered a horrendous attack on 10/7. I truly do, even if I mightily disagree with some of them. Given their millenias long history of displacements, persecutions, pogroms and genocide, I get where they coming from and the siege mentality they've developped along the centuries. I have a great deal of respect for people like @Amir, who despite everything try to stay objective and inform us about the pulse of the Israeli society. This is invaluable information and I hate it when people gang up on him.
I however don't have a single shred of consideration for the willfull ignorants, especially the ones who have no skin in the game, deliberately ignoring the roots of the conflict and trying to be more papist than the Pope whilst selling their (unconscious or not) racist views under the pretense of defending Israel. Just like I find people using anti-Zionism, which is legitimate the latter being just an ideology, to cover up their antisemitic opinions, utterly abhorrent.
What simultaneously amazes and terrifies me, isn't so much the complete and assumed racist stances like Haley's (and she's by far not the only one) or the genocidal takes of high ranked Israeli officials, but the absolute apathy and lack of meaningful pushback. That it became some kind of okay-ish opinion one could have as a US presidential candidate is mind-blowing. Just imagine the Russians, or anyone else, spouting this kind of discourse and the outrage it would cause. That's not even speaking about the active and successful attempts at shutting down any meaningful support to the Palestinian cause. This isn't happening in some backwater dictatorship, but in the heart of the West. There is an institutionalized anti-Arab sentiment that's transpiring through every single major political pore in the West and it's been amped up since 9/11.
Massive shout-out to the Scots and the Irish though, their support for the Palestinian cause is heart-warming. You'd say they know a thing or two about occupation. But the major players in Europe, the UK, France and especially Germany, should hang their heads in shame.
The alliance between American Evangelical Zionists and Israel is as "unholy" and insane as it gets. From what I've read and understood, the Evangelicals believe that Jesus Christ can only come back and start Armageddon once the Jews regain full control of the biblical Israel. You can imagine that the Palestinians are actually in the way. It also implies that the Jews heads will also be on the choping block if they don't embrace Christianity. Israel on the other side, and this is my personal opinion, doesn't believe a single word of this prophecy (who would?) and sees them as useful idiots who can provide money and firepower to achieve the conquest of Eretz Israel. After that, suck it up, buttercup. If I'm wrong, anyone please correct me.
The Trump supporters and MAGA nuts are by essence isolationists, which isn't an uncommon stance in US history. They primarily focus on their own borders and reluctantly involve themselves international matters. They see themselves, and are more less geographically justified, as an island. "America first" is much more than an empty slogan and something every presidential candidate has to take into account. Preventing evil foreigners, who will undoubtedly corrupt the righteous Christian American way of life, to get through is doing God's work. The US is notoriously religious, schizophrenic and endowed with a goldfish memory, as well as having history of discriminating whatever new wave of immigrants that (perceivedly) untimely arrives. Irish, Italians, Jews, Poles, etc... Currently it's the South-Americans and Muslims, tomorrow it will be someone else. Maybe Aliens. Who knows.
You can't support Ukraine and be in favor of Israel's current response without critically endangering your brain through excess of mental gymnastics. And you won't find any better thread than this one on the net, in my opinion, if you want a level headed and informed discussion about the topic. Props to the moderators and administrators of this website.
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The Biden administration once more bypasses Congress on an emergency weapons sale to Israel
https://apnews.com/article/us-israe...ass-congress-1dc77f20aac4a797df6a2338b677da4f
Excellent post. Couldn't really say anything else. It sums up how I feel about it all perfectly.
A perspective from Israel is useful, but 'objectivity' flew out the window a long time ago for this guy. People criticize him because he makes statements that are worthy of criticism.
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Years of Netanyahu have brought us a huge bunch of clowns. This guy is the bloody foreign minister (well, for two mroe days, as he's moving to another office and being replaced - and is supposed to return to the role in two years time. Yes, another piece of brilliance from Netanyahu).
This govenment is a disgrace.
Obviously, being Israeli means I can't be completely objective (not that full objectivity exists for anyone, anywhere).
However, I shall say that I also have a perspective that others don't and I'm not some sort of blind supporter of Israel and what it does. Yet others are happy to sit wherever they are in the world, base their information on posts on Twitter and have the nerve to tell ME what is really going on around me.
Israel to other countries: Hey, we had a great idea, why don’t you take the Palestinians from their land? - Totally fine to say out loud
Or
Why don’t the Israelis all go to America, or Europe, or the UK because that’s who supports and funds them the most? - OMG yOU aRE aN anti-sEmiTe
Or
Why don’t the Israelis all go to America, or Europe, or the UK because that’s who supports and funds them the most? - OMG yOU aRE aN anti-sEmiTe
Pretty much every couple of days now there are some reports from Israel about an outline of a hostage deal with Hamas denying any talks quickly after.
Either it's negotiation tactics or there are no serious talks and the Israelis leak that to ease the pressure off the government.
Either it's negotiation tactics or there are no serious talks and the Israelis leak that to ease the pressure off the government.