England Tour of India

TheGame

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Jul 30, 2002
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In the Land of Saints and Sinners
Thought I'd create a dedicated thread to allow all fans to discuss.

January

25-29 1st Test, Hyderabad (04:00 GMT)

February

2-6 2nd Test, Visakhapatnam (04:00 GMT)

15-19 3rd Test, Rajkot (04:00 GMT)

23-27 4th Test, Ranchi (04:00 GMT)

March

7-11 5th Test, Dharamsala (04:00 GMT)
 
England Team for the first test:

1. Zak Crawley
2. Ben Duckett
3. Ollie Pope
4. Joe Root
5. Jonny Bairstow
6. Ben Stokes (C)
7. Ben Foakes (WK)
8. Rehan Ahmed
9. Tom Hartley
10. Mark Wood
11. Jack Leach
 
why are they starting at 4 in the morning? it’s the middle of winter and pitch black until 7.
 
Also this whole visa situation is disgraceful, he should have been granted a visa at the same time as the rest of the squad. Your first call up to test cricket and you get treated like this, questions need to be asked here of the authorities.

 
TheGame said:
Also this whole visa situation is disgraceful, he should have been granted a visa at the same time as the rest of the squad. Your first call up to test cricket and you get treated like this, questions need to be asked here of the authorities.

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I think he's of Pakistani descent which makes an Indian visa difficult (thought England should have known this and done it in advance).
 
TheGame said:
England Team for the first test:

1. Zak Crawley
2. Ben Duckett
3. Ollie Pope
4. Joe Root
5. Jonny Bairstow
6. Ben Stokes (C)
7. Ben Foakes (WK)
8. Rehan Ahmed
9. Tom Hartley
10. Mark Wood
11. Jack Leach
Click to expand...

This team looks like it'll take a battering in India

Am I missing something about some of these cricketers - likes of Rehan, Hartley? English sides here do get beaten 2012 apart, but it's been better sides..
 
zing said:
This team looks like it'll take a battering in India

Am I missing something about some of these cricketers - likes of Rehan, Hartley? English sides here do get beaten 2012 apart, but it's been better sides..
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We don't have an abundance of top quality spinners because English pitches and the domestic results based system are designed for seamers. Rehan is talented but still raw. He has good skills with the ball and bat but he could go for a few however we have't had a decent wrist spinner since forever. Hartley is favoured because of his height and he could get additional purchase off the pitch, He also had a good FC season last season. I would have liked to see Liam Dawson in the squad so was surprised he was left out. With the depth of the Indian line up if they go with 3 spinners yet still have 2 quality seamers, I'm struggling to see us picking up 20 wickets
 
So much pressure on the spinners to perform here. I'm surprised that Wood is the sole quick too when Anderson is presumably better at holding an end for an extended period. Could get messy if India are able to get on top.
 
zing said:
This team looks like it'll take a battering in India

Am I missing something about some of these cricketers - likes of Rehan, Hartley? English sides here do get beaten 2012 apart, but it's been better sides..
Click to expand...
Which of our quality spin options were you expecting to see in the team? Three spinners plus Root is pretty wild though.
 
That team :lol:

This is going to be a mad series from an England perspective. I'm expecting spectacular defeats and one/potentially two chaotic wins.
 
Dan_F said:
Which of our quality spin options were you expecting to see in the team? Three spinners plus Root is pretty wild though.
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I think selecting two pacers is a better option than that bowling quartet. With spin, if it doesn’t work and you’ve picked more of them, it becomes very one dimensional. This is doubly true if the pitch is not a raging turner.

would shoaib Bashir have started if he had his visa?
 
zing said:
I think selecting two pacers is a better option than that bowling quartet. With spin, if it doesn’t work and you’ve picked more of them, it becomes very one dimensional. This is doubly true if the pitch is not a raging turner.

would shoaib Bashir have started if he had his visa?
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My guess is no - but it's very hard to second guess this England test setup.

I can't see any argument for going only one seamer myself. Madness. Funny though.
 
Can’t see the argument for 3 spinners or even releasing the team the day before either. England are really banking on Rehan being a point of difference which way too much to ask.
 
Australia only played 1 seamer in 3 of the 4 tests in India last year, they did have the option of Green as well for 2 of them but he was barely used. If the expectation is that it'll turn from day one then it's a fair enough decision.
 
IRN-BRUno said:
Australia only played 1 seamer in 3 of the 4 tests in India last year, they did have the option of Green as well for 2 of them but he was barely used. If the expectation is that it'll turn from day one then it's a fair enough decision.
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I mean the caveat of Green as an option is a pretty big one there...

Maybe Stokes can bowl...?

If not it's an unnecessary gamble IMO
 
Utd heap said:
I mean the caveat of Green as an option is a pretty big one there...

Maybe Stokes can bowl...?

If not it's an unnecessary gamble IMO
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Stokes can't yet, the plan seems to be gradually building him up to start again in the summer.

Green bowled 2 overs in one and 18 out of 179 in the other where he was the most expensive on either side so didn't really offer anything. I probably would have preferred the 2nd seamer as Root is more than capable in these conditions but if they expect it to be something similar to the Ahmedabad pitch on the last tour then I can see why they've made that decision.
 
Utd heap said:
That team :lol:

This is going to be a mad series from an England perspective. I'm expecting spectacular defeats and one/potentially two chaotic wins.
Click to expand...

I am very curious to see how the aggressive approach will work out in India. It arguably could have won them the ashes in better weather against a (In my opinion) vastly superior Australian team.

An away series in India is probably the hardest thing in world cricket to win right now. We could be in for a real spectacle.
 
IRN-BRUno said:
Australia only played 1 seamer in 3 of the 4 tests in India last year, they did have the option of Green as well for 2 of them but he was barely used. If the expectation is that it'll turn from day one then it's a fair enough decision.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was looking at the series and I was surprised by how little the Aussie seamers bowled. I think if they think that it’s not going to offer anything then it’s probably not a bad idea. It’s weird because all the Indian seamers tend to bowl well on these pitches
 
Anyway - I am hugely looking forward to this. The tests between the 3 big sides are my fav thing about cricket

Playing England means great comms on TV with Nasser, Atherton etc and also here at the caf
 
Cloud7 said:
I am very curious to see how the aggressive approach will work out in India. It arguably could have won them the ashes in better weather against a (In my opinion) vastly superior Australian team.

An away series in India is probably the hardest thing in world cricket to win right now. We could be in for a real spectacle.
Click to expand...

I'm reading this line-up and I've completely forgotten that England have been v successful with this bazball stuff because of how strange the lineup looks. Maybe(and hopefully) England have gotten this right, and we get a good series
 
zing said:
I'm reading this line-up and I've completely forgotten that England have been v successful with this bazball stuff because of how strange the lineup looks. Maybe(and hopefully) England have gotten this right, and we get a good series
Click to expand...

As a neutral that's all I ever want man
 
Cloud7 said:
I am very curious to see how the aggressive approach will work out in India. It arguably could have won them the ashes in better weather against a (In my opinion) vastly superior Australian team.

An away series in India is probably the hardest thing in world cricket to win right now. We could be in for a real spectacle.
Click to expand...

The aggressive approach should be a benefit to England assuming they are turning pitches. It worked quite well for Travis Head while he was out there. If the pitches aren’t turning from the off though I’m not sure England have the attack
 
TheGame said:
Nervous about playing 3 spinners, Anderson would have been a good economy bowler. Going to be difficult if the spinners get attacked.

Also need some more of this from Root.

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phenomenal by cook as an opener
 
Utd heap said:
That team :lol:

This is going to be a mad series from an England perspective. I'm expecting spectacular defeats and one/potentially two chaotic wins.
Click to expand...

we could have put up more of a fight but unfortunately none of our gun players were given visas, due to how much india fear bazball. they’ve found the only way to beat us; stop us getting off the plane :( well played, india, but the spirit of cricket has taken a mortal blow.
 
Loving the decision to go with 3 spinners. I was always fed up when we'd pick 2 or 3 seamers who would barely bowl in the sub-continent yet bat 10 or 11. In an ideal world we'd have a pace bowling all rounder to add some balance but we simply don't have that option. It's a strategy that at least makes it a contest imo, otherwise I'd have bitten your hand off for a 1-4 defeat.

In an ideal world the spinners would be more experienced but, again, we've picked as good as we've got (debatable about Dawson but his red ball bowling average isn't stand out either and age makes Ahmed and Hartley far more appealing picks). Root, Jacks and Bess have got wickets in India and these two are as good or better than that. Also ideally we'd have one off spinner as the 3 front line spinners all turn it away from right handers, so I fully expect Bashir to get a game or two. Ahmed bowls a lot of googlies and over variations in white ball, not sure how frequently he will use that in tests. Stokes and McCullum have shown previously they are prepared to be creative with tactics and fields to get 20 wickets and win tests, so at lot will come down to decisions on the field rather than just names on the teamsheet.

We also bat deep. 6 specialist batsmen, Foakes is an underrated batsmen, Ahmed and Hartley have good scores in them, if Wood can score a quick fire 20-30 or two it could be decisive if games are low scoring as expected. I expect Anderson and/or Robinson will get a few games throughout the series too to rest Wood, and if some pitches warrant going with two seamers.

I'd still take a valiant 2-3 defeat or 2-2 draw at this stage but wouldn't rule out England sneaking the series.
 
TheGame said:
He's a British citizen, it shouldn't have been an issue. Anyone can see that. It's disgraceful.
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If your criticizing the UK / ECB for not knowing that it would take a long time, your correct - very poor planning.
If your criticizing India for it when there's a clear policy etc. then you need to take a history lesson.
 
zing said:
I think selecting two pacers is a better option than that bowling quartet. With spin, if it doesn’t work and you’ve picked more of them, it becomes very one dimensional. This is doubly true if the pitch is not a raging turner.

would shoaib Bashir have started if he had his visa?
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t have thought so.

My mum has flown out today but they messed up the flights so they’re probably going to miss most of the first day, she didn’t appreciate me telling her that she’d probably only see the second innings.
 
NM said:
If your criticizing the UK / ECB for not knowing that it would take a long time, your correct - very poor planning.
If your criticizing India for it when there's a clear policy etc. then you need to take a history lesson.
Click to expand...

I don't know the specifics of the issue, but why does an international sportsman have to wait >1 month to get a visa? The only information I have on this is from George Dobell's tweets and he says that Bashir applied on December 11th, whereas Dobell himself, a journalist, applied a bit later and got it in 4 days.

I see visas as a form of underwriting - Dobell can't be a "lower risk" category than Bashir. I understand the argument for Pakistani heritage requiring additional checks given our history but being an international sportsman should dramatically expedite the process. It's not just about relative probabilities.. it should be about absolute probabilities as well. Imagine if Steve Smith had a Pakistani parent and they made him miss a test because they couldn't clear the visa queue for him?
 
zing said:
I don't know the specifics of the issue, but why does an international sportsman have to wait >1 month to get a visa? The only information I have on this is from George Dobell's tweets and he says that Bashir applied on December 11th, whereas Dobell himself, a journalist, applied a bit later and got it in 4 days.

I see visas as a form of underwriting - Dobell can't be a "lower risk" category than Bashir. I understand the argument for Pakistani heritage requiring additional checks given our history but being an international sportsman should dramatically expedite the process.
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"Should" expediate the process. However, it rarely happens until the media makes a fuss.

Tbh, I'm actually happy that it's the same rules for all people of Pakistani origin (to be clear - I don't like the rule - I like that it was equally applied.) One of my colleagues whose a C-suite executive from Pakistan (US Citizen now) can't come to India either. Not worth the hassle for him.

To be fair, if I applied for a UK visa 1 month before I wanted to travel, no chance I'd get it! 1 month is not a lot for visas.
 
Dan_F said:
I wouldn’t have thought so.

My mum has flown out today but they messed up the flights so they’re probably going to miss most of the first day, she didn’t appreciate me telling her that she’d probably only see the second innings.
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Funny but for some reason, I don't think Hyderabad's going to turn as much as the venues in the last tour. I can't remember the last game there, or it being a raging turner..? @NM might

It would be hilarious if England pack the side with spinners and it doesn't turn much
 
NM said:
If your criticizing the UK / ECB for not knowing that it would take a long time, your correct - very poor planning.
If your criticizing India for it when there's a clear policy etc. then you need to take a history lesson.
Click to expand...

It should be noted that England picked Bashir off the back off a spinning camp that they had in UAE and he came off as the best off the next cab. So it's not as a simple as saying ECB should have planned better (not sure what the UK could have done) given they picked the squad in December. I think the whole thing is just an unfortunate situation but it's not a huge deal since Bashir wouldn't have played IMO.

In the UK, sportsperson visa generally takes 3 weeks to set up if based outside.
 
TheGame said:
Nervous about playing 3 spinners, Anderson would have been a good economy bowler. Going to be difficult if the spinners get attacked.

Also need some more of this from Root.

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The two best batters the two countries have produced ever? Guessing England have someone from pre-modern times that English fans would consider above Cook
 
zing said:
Funny but for some reason, I don't think Hyderabad's going to turn as much as the venues in the last tour. I can't remember the last game there, or it being a raging turner..? @NM might

It would be hilarious if England pack the side with spinners and it doesn't turn much
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I don't remember tbh. That being said if it's 2-2 going to Dharamshala, England will be favorites.. I'm going to try and go to that game. The stadium and area is beautiful.
 
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