For the record very few people do. Most people use it to silence valid criticism about their own contradictions/hypocrisy
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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That's quite a generalisation.
fecking Fellaini got booed, as did Ronaldo after his pre-season nonsense... specifically what makes you think an alleged rapist would get a better reception?
the average match going fan, not just at old trafford, but across the whole country, are united in their desire to stop small boat crossings and only allow home grown rapists to play for their clubs. the silent, vocal majority demand it.
it’s easy to make generalisations, stated as fact.
Yep I completely agree. It's truly baffling.
Why wouldn’t they boo him? I don’t understand your logic on that
I doubt even 5% of fans booed Fellaini or Ronaldo - that's the point, tiny minorities boo individual players at OT
This discussion started because someone claimed half of OT would boo him
Because it's negative for the team
You mean Ronaldo?
Some fans, may boo him, I don’t think @Rood has ever disputed that?
But more fans would cheer him - loudly - and thus I very much doubt the narrative would be ‘booed by home fans’.
The majority of fans want him back, and that’s with the current situation. If he was actually brought back it would obviously be with some sort of PR push / explanation that would make that majority even larger than it already is.
The situation on Redcafe on this topic isn’t indicative of the wider view of Utd fans.
Apologies if this is incorrect, but on here (I think) literally all the mods and every scout bar 1 are vehemently against Greenwood returning and in many cases quite openly despise him - I’m not criticising that, but it creates a kind of microclimate in here where that view feels like the majority view as posters are very wary of pushing against it too much as they’re risking bannings etc by doing so. And at the least they get called ‘rape / DV apologists’ etc with other posters given a free shot to attack them / make pithy remarks.
But it isn’t the majority view - even in here - as evidenced by that poll that got pulled down that showed the majority wanted Greenwood back.
So what Rood’s saying isn’t outlandish at all - yes, some would boo, but the majority wouldn’t just sit in silence, they’d cheer him, and as they’re already in the majority, logically they would be louder.
Quite quickly the booing would fade into nothing - as with, say, Zouma, who was filmed at length laughing as he cruelly abused a scared animal and was then immediately put back into the West Ham team.
Or Alonso who killed another human being while drunk driving and served no time but carried on playing.
They were booed and jeered for a time but quite quickly it just gets drowned out.
With Greenwood being a forward, who, compared to other positions, regularly scores goals, that drowning out would be quicker than I think you might anticipate.
All that said, I don’t for 1 second think he will return to Utd anyway, so it’s nothing that we’ll ever see imo.
Ronaldo literally returned AS THAT. With pretty damning evidence as well.
There was absolutely zero outrage and I don’t think it was mentioned by the English media at all.
I think he meant Johnny EvansYou mean Ronaldo?
Why do you think there was a vast difference in how both were treated ? Lack of a video in the Ronaldo case, or another reason ?
Good question, why was there a vast difference in how both were treated when one actually admitted to doing what he was accused of?
I'd say it's the threat to rape on video and the pictures of the bruises. Not much left up to the imagination or enough room for most people to disassociate.
It's amazing that it's such a head scratcher for ye.
What happened with the skepticism you're applying to the Greenwood case? That admission is from a document that his lawyers claim is fake.
I'm not sure about this happening, i could imagine there would be some form of muted celebration if he scored but in the event of him coming off the bench to make his return I think at most there would be awkward applause matched with booing and probably some form of protest. The media scrutiny would be huge and the club would be rightly chastised, if they were to bring him back, reintroducing him would be a PR nightmare as things stand he doesn't deserve this effort from the club or the fans.
I hope not, but it seems more like "my anecdotal experience means I can speak for all fans". Like he chats to 70000 people every week. I see it descended into "how many games have you been to?".
Which is fair but goes back to our shifting moral stances chat.
The old trafford crowd cheered, appluaded and welcomed back a man who allegedly continued to have sex with a woman whilst she was saying no. I'm pretty sure Redcafe was also estactic at his return. Its not beyond reason that the old trafford crowd would most likely would be ambivalent at best if Greenwood put on a shirt again. If I was to bet my money....I'd say he'd likely get a lukewarm response from the crowd. Generally the crowd down really tend to lean too much to one extreme for most things apart from the Glazers.
Yeah, I can't imagine a vast majority of fans wouldn't celebrate a goal. That is after all one of the primary reasons they are there. The player would however have to endure quite a bit of booing if/when he were to be introduced - which would almost surely only happen at OT initially. Much would also depend on how United handle a potential reintroduction in terms of the player doing a conciliatory interview and other similar PR actions.
You literally have a local fan a few posts back this morning saying that practically everyone he knows does not want him back
It's called facts, mate.
Backed up by another, a few posts after.
But you understand that this is an issue that people feel very strongly about which transcends football?
Are we really at the stage of actually asking if all the opposition to his return is because of the video of threatened rape and pictures of a bloodied and bruised young woman.
The answer, which is apparently news to some of you, is yes.
The answer, which is apparently news to some of you, is yes.
Ah, I see! I forgot that when Ronaldo says he didnt do it we must believe him and when Greenwood says he didnt do what he was charged with we shouldnt. Got ya. Its a bit hard you know trying to remember when we should believe a player and when we shouldn't.
Impossible to dispute
You mentioned good faith earlier. This is not that. I think you're putting words in people's mouths.
Also did Mason say he didn't do it?
Are you playing dumb right now, or is this for real?
I think a lot of people were pretty underwhelmed with his return on here. I know I was. The man is a bellend.
I also don't see why we keep bringing Giggs, Best and Ronaldo into it. This is different because of what we saw.
The leaked evidence was fecking vile. It's much more impactful than court reports or lawyers statements, which can easily blend in to the he said she said celeb news.
Are some of ye pretending not to understand this key point?
We wouldn't be here if this only appeared in print. Without a doubt.
So when Ronaldo pays a woman $300,000 hush dollars when she accuses him of rape because there isn't a video we are supposed to believe Ronaldo ? this is what you'r asking right ?
There's also a bit of recency bias going on. Ronaldo's situation happend in 2009 and beyond the Spiegel interview with Mayorga, there was no visceral evidence such as an audio/video tape. Incidentally, CR7 also had a second alleged incident with Jasmine Lennard where she claims he once told her "... if I dated anyone else or if I left my house he’d have me kidnapped and have my body cut up and put in a bag and thrown in a river.” This only came to light in 2019 iirc; a mere two years before he joined re-joined United.
Sure but it’s not a perfect world and it seems like biting off your nose to spite your face when you are then selling a potentially world class player for so far under value. If we could sell him for his true potential value £100 million and replace him then fair enough, but as it is, £40 million will get us someone so much worse.
Good faith in regards to you as our last exchanges have been respectful. I don't think myself and that poster have had respectful exchanges
And yes in his statement he says "he didn't do what he was accused of".
The Ronaldo point is interesting in regards to hypocrisy. In that on one hand you have a player in greenwood who denies what he was accused of and has seemingly moved on with his partner/alleged victim, on the other hand you have a player in Ronaldo who denies what he was accused of and the alleged victim disagrees. Yet Old trafford opened there arms to Ronaldo. The poster rightly highlighted Ronaldo disputes the document (which is a sense Ironic as I'd imagine according to some posters on here that would be defending an alleged rapist) and allegations, as Greenwood disputes his allegations.
For me, I think if the Old Trafford crowd welcomed Ronaldo back then they should Greenwood. Alternatively if they want to banish him then do the same with anything relating to Ronaldo. Ditto for Redcafe. Obviously that's not going to happen.
Now of course I know recency bias, the viscerity of the evidence etc but for me its an interesting watch regarding people's moral stances when confronted with the mirror in Ronaldo.
This is a bit of a strawman argument for me, as unless you can literally quote someone being giddy about Ronaldo returning and know that they knew the details of allegations, who are you even talking about?
Money comes and goes in football, affiliating yourself with a character like Greenwood is a stain that will not go away, even if fans and the club put the moral implications to one side and see things only from a football point of view or a financial point of view, the rest of the footballing world won't. The club were naive to attempt to bring him back, now with the addition of Ineos's reputation being potentially harmed its very unlikely and certainly not worth £60 million.
It’s a painfully poor attempt at trying to undermine people who do take the ‘moral’ stance. Saying we have to respond the same way now as then means we never learn from any experience, grow or change our opinions. We should still have slavery and racism is a-ok. As arguments go it’s weak as piss.
It isn’t even inherently hypocritical, the Ronaldo experience and revelations about Giggs could have been instructive ones, causing people to deal with these kinds of issues and feelings for the first time re United. Feeling excitement about a legend returning but then a lot of conflict given his character.
Certainly, for me it was a watershed moment, I became increasingly uncomfortable supporting him or the team throughout his return and was extremely happy to see him leave. That makes me feel even more sure about not wanting to see Greenwood play here again. My response to something years before doesn’t hold me in some vice grip moving forward. It’s obviously miles better to take a previous experience and reflect on it and how it made you feel and use that moving forward than just say “well I didn’t say anything then so I can’t now” like an absolute mug.
It’s not a gotcha, it’s just a lame attempt at trying to make those who disagree with you look less shiny white or to tear them down, all in aid of you feeling better about a guy who said those things playing here again.
Even in that exact instance it barely matters.