Who replaces Ten Hag?

[Gordon Godot]

I think we'd be crazy to get rid of ETH given the lack of clear options out there. It would cost an absolute fortune that we don't have, would totally ignore how well ETH did last season and for me would be idiotic given how this seaon has actually gone.

Basically, if ETH can field 10 or so of his actually good footballers, we look good and get good results. If he has to make 3 or more changes and bring in players that should be nowhere near this squad (Lindelof, Maguire, Evans, McTominay, Erikssen, Forson etc) then we look crap. We currently are starting every match being able to field only 9 players in their right positions, because he literally doesn't have a LB or a CF in the squad. That's not his fault. It's the disaster of Ed/Murtough.

Every match is a compromise. We're relying on 3 players that are hugely inexperienced children (Mainoo/Hojland/Garnacho) because the squad is so broken. And they've been good and clearly buy into what he's doing.

Jonny Evans came here in the summer to get some fitness, and has played 20 odd matches for us. That's how bad this squad is. Two of ETH's 'energetic, future-planning signings' have essentially not played this season (Malacia/Mount).

Everyone on here agrees that a back 4 featuring Lindelof and Maguire is an absolute train-wreck, and should have been scrapped in Ole's time. Yet ETH is forced to play them, when they're years older and slower, and so no he can't play good footballw ith that. No one can.

Get in a DoF, get in 5/6 signings, get 3 or 4 injured players back and then I think you can judge ETH, because he'll actually have footballers playing in their positions, at a good age.

My god, the delusions continue. ETH had a full squad at start of season and we were woeful. Wolves tore through at will at the opening game. He has no idea. ETH spent £400m, so whose fault is it the squad is broken? Yes Murtough is awful but ETH wanted Antony, Amrabat, Onana, Mount, Amrabat and the rest. One of our most expensive signings is probably our worst ever. There was great surprise when we signed Malacia given is lack of physicality.

What exactly is ETH responsible for? SO we are still back to the give him 4 years, another £200m, and a full squad and only then can we judge him. This is just garbage.

 

[lilcurt]

My god, the delusions continue. ETH had a full squad at start of season and we were woeful. Wolves tore through at will at the opening game. He has no idea. ETH spent £400m, so whose fault is it the squad is broken? Yes Murtough is awful but ETH wanted Antony, Amrabat, Onana, Mount, Amrabat and the rest. One of our most expensive signings is probably our worst ever. There was great surprise when we signed Malacia given is lack of physicality.

What exactly is ETH responsible for? SO we are still back to the give him 4 years, another £200m, and a full squad and only then can we judge him. This is just garbage.

The player he has identified for signing have been nowhere near good enough on the whole. The fees involved aren't really down to him though.

I think ETH, massively underestimates the speed and physicality of the league. Not many managers who come from the Dutch league are successful here and I think that is why.

As for who could replace him? That is the issue isn't it. There isn't an exceptional candidate out there, especially when you consider other teams in the market for a new manager. If we seriously considering going Potter I think you stick with ETH and see how he starts next season.

 

[VP89]

My god, the delusions continue. ETH had a full squad at start of season and we were woeful. Wolves tore through at will at the opening game. He has no idea. ETH spent £400m, so whose fault is it the squad is broken? Yes Murtough is awful but ETH wanted Antony, Amrabat, Onana, Mount, Amrabat and the rest. One of our most expensive signings is probably our worst ever. There was great surprise when we signed Malacia given is lack of physicality.

What exactly is ETH responsible for? SO we are still back to the give him 4 years, another £200m, and a full squad and only then can we judge him. This is just garbage.

It's outstanding how you still talk about pissing away money as though he's a DoF, CEO and manager all rolled into one.

 

[Tinúviel]

People are dismissing the Dutch league as Mickey Mouse , you aren’t gonna get much traction using the Swedish league!

United are and have been a circus far longer than Chelsea, is it not fair to say Potter probably equally would have failed if he was hired instead of ETH?

It’s such an uninspired hiring it could be really hard for him to buy time that will be needed. If he’s hired I get behind him like I do all our managers but the “best of British” narrative that seemed to be coming from SJR side concerns me. We need best in world, not best of British, I really hope this link to Potter is nothing to do with some weird cultural strategy. Just get the best f**king people.

Had he taken over the best team in Sweden it wouldn't been particularly impressive but to take a team from 4 tier divison to the top division, winning the Swedish cup and then losing to Arsenal in the knockout rounds having won the first game away is pretty impressive, doesn't matter what league it is. It's not like they parked the bus and just countered either, they played very good football.

I don't know if he'd fail if he was hired instead of ETH. It's pointless to speculate what could've been. I'm talking about going forward. Under better people at the top I think Potter would be a solid bet if ETH got sacked.

My first post wasn't a comparison to ETH. You asked what Potter have done so I thought I'd answer you with some of the things he did in Sweden which I thought was pretty impressive

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

So you’re firmly in the Ten Hag doesn’t deserve a chance under a new structure a completely fresh and clean slate is needed?

So regardless of Ten Hag’s quality relative to other candidates is it more important for someone else to try it who just isn’t Ten Hag?

Id counter that with name me any top club aiming for Top 4/winning their league without footballing structure @AFC NimbleThumb you’re confusing an excuse with an explanation.

I think it’s reasonable to believe some other manager may have done better but history would suggest at a club like United it’s unlikely. We have a history of managers failing.

I can understand why some want him gone. I’m not particularly attached to him myself and would fully trust INEOS to make the right decision end of season about the manager.

I’m of the belief that a manager of Manchester United should not have lost 16 games by late February/early March. Are there extenuating circumstances? Yes but we aren’t only being bested by the likes of Citeh but multiple losses against teams with less resources to begin with & their own absentees. It’s not about it being ‘more important for someone else to try it who just isn’t Ten Hag’, it’s about judging him based on his poor performance.

People compare him to Klopp, Arteta, or even Sir Alex but fail to mention the 10s of well intentioned managers that go into clubs & fail year on year. He won’t be the first promising manager at multiple levels that failed to make a step up.

I’m firmly in the camp that if Ineos are serious about change then they won’t just stop at the squad but the manager who unfortunately hasn’t lived up to expectations. Unlike bygon eras it doesn’t look like Ineos are going to be able to come in & spend this squad away so next season a significant number of the sqaud will be in situ. Are we now to believe this squad should forgoe umpteen transfer windows because EtH refuses to tailor his tactics?

A club that challenged for Top 4 without a football structure? We did it last year. That isn’t me saying we don’t need one, I think it’s imperative to get back to the top table but I would argue it isn’t the lack of football structure that sees us double points back of Aston Villa. Again, the expectations were in the basement. He’s took a sizeable step backwards having bolstered the squad. The trajectory is trending terribly.

 

[Rojofiam]

Here’s the criteria;

1. Must be able to work with DOF
2. Must play front foot attacking football
3. Must have won a domestic league in the top 5 leagues.
4. Preferably knows how to bring young players through and works intensively with the academy.
5. Preferably would have won a CL/Europa League or at least got to last 4 of CL.
6. Has a 60-65% win rate
7. Is Flexible to adapt tactics per game and not stubborn.
8. Preferably has PL experience but not essential for a European Elite Manager.

That type of Criteria means the following are not options - Graham Potter, Roberto De Zerbie

Options - Hansi Flick, Zinedine Zidane, Thomas Tuchel, Julian Naigelsman, Roberto Mancini, Luis Enrique, Antonio Conte, Simeone Inzaghi.

They are the options, some are available and not working, some already manage huge clubs and some need convincing that United under Ineos are going to be serious contenders going forward?

Points 3, 5, and 6 are irrelevant and none of them make sense to have as a criteria when looking for a new manager.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

The player he has identified for signing have been nowhere near good enough on the whole. The fees involved aren't really down to him though.

I think ETH, massively underestimates the speed and physicality of the league. Not many managers who come from the Dutch league are successful here and I think that is why.

As for who could replace him? That is the issue isn't it. There isn't an exceptional candidate out there, especially when you consider other teams in the market for a new manager. If we seriously considering going Potter I think you stick with ETH and see how he starts next season.

We don’t need ‘an exceptional candidate’ to replace a non-exceptional coach.

Sir Alex isn’t walking back through those doors & SjR made it clear the way the team plays along with the playing squad will be under the remit of the board.

Who is sat on the bench could become rather fluid & I’d encourage fans to stop falling for the cult of personality, longing for a time that isn’t coming back.

What we need is for Ineos to make some real changes to the squad & a coach who’s far more flexible in the approach to the squad in terms of the personnel as well as the tactics because the make up of the team will alter dramatically in the next 3 years.

EtH should never have been allowed to spend the money he has but having done so it reveals the type of player profile he believes he can get away with & that’s cause for alarm in itself. In what world was a team with Amrabat in midfield & Antony on the wing going to get us near where we need to be? He’s struggled massively to understand this league.

If the next manager underperforms then he’ll be gone too. You don’t stick with EtH because you can’t get ‘insert fancy manager here’ because there are many steps between them.

 

[brontelicious]

We don’t need ‘an exceptional candidate’ to replace a non-exceptional coach.

Sir Alex isn’t walking back through those doors & SjR made it clear the way the team plays along with the playing squad will be under the remit of the board.

Who is sat on the bench could become rather fluid & I’d encourage fans to stop falling for the cult of personality, longing for a time that isn’t coming back.

What we need is for Ineos to make some real changes to the squad & a coach who’s far more flexible in the approach to the squad in terms of the personnel as well as the tactics because the make up of the team will alter dramatically in the next 3 years.

EtH should never have been allowed to spend the money he has but having done so it reveals the type of player profile he believes he can get away with & that’s cause for alarm in itself. In what world was a team with Amrabat in midfield & Antony on the wing going to get us near where we need to be? He’s struggled massively to understand this league.

If the next manager underperforms then he’ll be gone too. You don’t stick with EtH because you can’t get ‘insert fancy manager here’ because there are many steps between them.

Selling players and sacking managers is considerably easy for the upstairs bigwig.

What will reveal more about Ratcliffe is how he deals with his executives getting it wrong.

Will Brailsford, Ashworth, Berrada and Blanc get chopped if they continually fail, or will they be allowed to go full Woodward?

That is a sterner test for Ineos than anything else.

 

[tidraKS]

Only Roberto de Zerbi. The other options are bad.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Selling players and sacking managers is considerably easy for the upstairs bigwig.

What will reveal more about Ratcliffe is how he deals with his executives getting it wrong.

Will Brailsford, Ashworth, Berrada and Blanc get chopped if they continually fail, or will they be allowed to go full Woodward?

That is a sterner test for Ineos than anything else.

Which is exactly why I think managers & players will actually see an increase in pressure not an easing of it under Ineos.

From ShR’s interview he seems very aware of the scrutiny coming so after what we’ve seen can happen this season I don’t see Ineos going X months into next season with someone that isn’t their ‘own man’.

There’s as much likelihood that EtH performs this badly again as there is he miraculously turns performances around. If you’re Brailsford who’s already hearing questions about his suitability I just can’t see him running that risk.

Our managers are going to be under intense pressure going forward, I think it might be in the Abramovich mould.

 

[devilish]

Only Roberto de Zerbi. The other options are bad.

In Italy Simone Inzaghi is considered better then De Zerbi

 

[didz]

Only Roberto de Zerbi. The other options are bad.

I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe when it comes to this guy.

Brighton regularly get thumped, have as bad an away record as all but a handful of teams (it's considerably worse than ours), and have won 2 league games since December - and one of those was against rock bottom Sheffield United.

Yet he's still the best manager around? Did you guys stop watching after gameweek 6 or something?

 

[Plant0x84]

Strong looks. Barry Venison vibes!

But bald is best

Yes!

 

[Oh_Dear]

1. I like Ratcliffe's response on the EtH issue. We've had top quality managers who have failed (Mourino, van Gaal, Rangnick are no dummies) under the current club structure, so fix the structure and then see how the manager performs.
2. Like many others, I was impressed by how EtH initially tackled the job and results in his first season were better than expected. And in terms of the recruitment, I can't blame him for the prices paid, and I can sort of see reasons why he chose the players he asked to be brought in.
3. SAF made some horrific signings when he first started in the job. Remember David May, Ralph Milne, Jim Leighton, Danny Wallace, Pat McGibbon, Dion Dublin, Nick Culkin, William Prunier, Karel Poborsky, Jordi Cruyff, Massimo Taibi etc etc?
4. I don't believe Potter, Zidane right now would do any better.
5. So my preference is to stick with EtH until we see how he performs under a better structure / better people in their executive roles. But in reality I don't think he'll make it as the players just don't look like they believe anymore. So we'll end up over-paying for De Zerbi and the cycle will start all over again.

 

[Lyng]

Only Roberto de Zerbi. The other options are bad.

What do you base this on?

 

[Beachryan]

My god, the delusions continue. ETH had a full squad at start of season and we were woeful. Wolves tore through at will at the opening game. He has no idea. ETH spent £400m, so whose fault is it the squad is broken? Yes Murtough is awful but ETH wanted Antony, Amrabat, Onana, Mount, Amrabat and the rest. One of our most expensive signings is probably our worst ever. There was great surprise when we signed Malacia given is lack of physicality.

What exactly is ETH responsible for? SO we are still back to the give him 4 years, another £200m, and a full squad and only then can we judge him. This is just garbage.

This is kind of BS. Martinez and Casemiro clearly weren't fit. Hojland wasn't even there yet. Mount had basically not played with the team yet. And then all the injuries came in. It was one match. Which we won. After that it was compromises. Your amazing sample size is 1.

ETH didn't want Casemiro. Beat him up for Antony, that's fine. Find me a manager that hasn't made a couple huge flop signings. Onana has been fine recently and in the league. No one knows about Mount. Amrabat was a desperation free signing becuase we're broke.

Martinez has been our best player when fit. Malacia was a fine, cheap backup last year. Hojland looks good. He's brought through Garnacho and Mainoo.

He's a coach. In the new structure that will be more of his job. I'm just not sure how a coach is supposed to play good football with 25 back 4 combiniations (most including Evans, Maguire or Lindelof), this leggy version of Casemiro in the middle and so forth.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Amorim is the ideal candidate. He's young at just 39, but already has a good body of work under his belt. Modern coach.

He's won trophies with both Braga and Sporting who aren't as big as Benfica and Porto who are the two biggest Portuguese clubs.

He's had to deal with losings several key players during his time at Sporting. Nuno Mendes, Joao Palhinha, Matheus Nunes, Pedro Porro, Manuel Ugarte, etc.

Sporting are in with a chance at winning the league again this season. They play some good stuff. 66 goals scored from 23 league games.

He's mainatined a win % of over 70% at every club/role so far in his career. He has the makings of an elite coach.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Had he taken over the best team in Sweden it wouldn't been particularly impressive but to take a team from 4 tier divison to the top division, winning the Swedish cup and then losing to Arsenal in the knockout rounds having won the first game away is pretty impressive, doesn't matter what league it is. It's not like they parked the bus and just countered either, they played very good football.

I don't know if he'd fail if he was hired instead of ETH. It's pointless to speculate what could've been. I'm talking about going forward. Under better people at the top I think Potter would be a solid bet if ETH got sacked.

My first post wasn't a comparison to ETH. You asked what Potter have done so I thought I'd answer you with some of the things he did in Sweden which I thought was pretty impressive

Fair enough. I’ve no issue giving managers a go, I suppose my post was more The less proven a manager is the quicker the hysterical impatient obnoxious United fans will get.

Im of the thought that ETH would have been a great signing now under INEOs, so he can work with competent people so maybe you are right. Maybe Potters experience at the chaos of Chelsea can actually be a good help in trying to get INEOs not make the same mistakes.

My concern with potter is his lack of credit in the bank. How long before “he’s out of his depth” gets thrown at him? Like some fans think it’s very simple:

- Moyes - not good enough - probably true but any manager who a club signed fellaini to help that manager be taken seriously by a league winning squad was always gonna struggle

- LVG passed it (doing well with Holland and stated our issues were the commercial arm influence things)

- Jose passed it (after winning league with Chelsea) and even thick fans were lauding the club for not following up second spot in league with signings stronger then Fred/dalot

- Ole - did really well even though I thought his appointment was a joke. Ronaldo transfer forced on him , another example of the “let’s sign that guy even though it’s not part of any plan and mightn’t even suit the managers plans”

- ETH - drama after drama he’s having to deal with. Club for sale on its own would unsettle things. Unreal injury issues. Loads of games the season there is a World Cup squeezed into the season. Team has never really looked fit, kind of like pool struggling last year, but absolutely nobody gives any meaningful allowances. ETH is sh*t cause our football is bad or XG or possesion or everything

Fans and media are fickle. They won’t care Potter did amazing things at some Swedish club. As soon as he hits a pothole , they will absolutely write him off. And the Chelsea stuff will become more used against him.

I f*cking hate how easy people are led into rage against managers/players. I’ve done it myself before but do try to reel myself in.

I hope ETH goes on to do great things when he leaves us but we have destroyed every player and manager since 2013. It’s remarkable how there are fans clinging to the “if we just get the right manager” hope. The major issues haven’t been managers. Doesn’t mean the ones we had were good enough, but none were as bad as the showing at times

 

[glazed]

This is kind of BS. Martinez and Casemiro clearly weren't fit. Hojland wasn't even there yet. Mount had basically not played with the team yet. And then all the injuries came in. It was one match. Which we won. After that it was compromises. Your amazing sample size is 1.

ETH didn't want Casemiro. Beat him up for Antony, that's fine. Find me a manager that hasn't made a couple huge flop signings. Onana has been fine recently and in the league. No one knows about Mount. Amrabat was a desperation free signing becuase we're broke.

Martinez has been our best player when fit. Malacia was a fine, cheap backup last year. Hojland looks good. He's brought through Garnacho and Mainoo.

He's a coach. In the new structure that will be more of his job. I'm just not sure how a coach is supposed to play good football with 25 back 4 combiniations (most including Evans, Maguire or Lindelof), this leggy version of Casemiro in the middle and so forth.

This is the truth. Really his only bad signing is Antony. The rest were imposed by circumstances.

His biggest fault for me is overtraining an already tired injury prone squad.

 

[Shinjch]

The way a large portion of the supporter base would turn on Potter during a period of bad form and results means that he should be ruled out immediately. Same with the likes of Lopetegui, and probably De Zerbi.

 

[Idxomer]

Inzaghi
Amorim
McKenna

Maybe, I don't really know.

 

[Woziak]

Zidane will never come here unless we have a stacked out of this world squad....doubt Tuchel would work out here....Conte/Simeone will play the opposite of what every supporter wants to play. Does Flick have enough experience?

It not Naigs, then take one of Flick, Enrique or Inzaghi.

But you agree G Potter and De Zerbie are not qualified for the United position ?

 

[Marcelinho87]

Potter was better than De Zerbi, just his name is less exciting thus people write him off.

 

[Woziak]

So if we had a manager that:

1. Has done so previously (United haven’t really had that structure)
2. Has done so previously (Would also argue it’s what he’s building towards here)
3. Has not done so (Netherlands classed as 6th behind France)
4. Has done so previously and currently (See Ajax and United youth)
5. Semi Final with Ajax
6. 61%
7. Does this currently and previously
8. Now has about 18months of PL experience. With a previous 3rd place finish and a trophy whilst in England.

I like what you trying to do and like you I was once a fan but his constant stubbornness and his ability to lose leads and not adapt tactically in game, suggests to me and many more United fans, ETH will always be the Bridesmaid!

 

[Idxomer]

Potter was better than De Zerbi, just his name is less exciting thus people write him off.

People write him off because he failed at Chelsea and looked out of his depth. He was the candidate with the most votes after Ten Hag in one of the polls after Ole was sacked.

 

[pocco]

It's outstanding how you still talk about pissing away money as though he's a DoF, CEO and manager all rolled into one.

Let's not pretend he's not been largely culpable for our dealings...

https://theathletic.com/3562326/2022/09/03/manchester-united-window-erik-ten-hag-budget/

Ten Hag wanted Martinez and Antony but at that stage Ajax would only sell one and the manager prioritised the Argentina defender.

Time has shown that De Jong was never truly invested in coming to Old Trafford, no matter that personal terms were broadly agreed via the midfielder’s agents.

Ten Hag felt the player was open to coming and Murtough was given encouragement that solving the issue of £17million in deferred wages would unlock the whole transfer. Those proved to be miscalculations.

All the while Rangnick, Arnautovic’s Austria manager, was left shaking his head in bafflement United would go for that profile of player. Some at the club feel that, on football terms, a deadline-day move might have been palatable to fans as a supplementary signing rather than a central one, but the moral objections were too distinct.

The episode was an example of the risk associated with following a manager on his recommendations unchecked

Ten Hag has assumed the leading role in recruitment choices this summer, which sources say is expanded from his control at Ajax where Overmars conducted much of the strategy. Ten Hag was lobbying for a bigger say after winning multiple trophies and he has been granted that authority at United.

Having worked for six months to establish Ten Hag has the No 1 choice for United, Murtough has channelled his work in trying to support the Dutchman’s vision. Ten Hag has spoken of the collaboration he has with executive staff.

The issue, as some have privately questioned, is that when Ten Hag eventually goes will the next manager want the same type of players?

Overall, however, United identified Antony as a potential signing before Ten Hag arrived and the recruitment department subsequently gave full backing. Ten Hag’s influence proved pivotal to the level of finance United reached.

https://theathletic.com/3555330/2022/08/31/man-utd-ten-hag-transfers/

Manchester United manager Erik ten Hag has said the club “adapted” their transfer budget this summer amid a rising market and their poor start to the campaign.

Speaking at a pre-match press conference ahead of his side’s fixture against Leicester City on Thurday, Ten Hag mentioned how the “club did well” to respond to rising prices in the transfer market.

https://theathletic.com/5151315/2023/12/22/manchester-united-fotball-news-transfers/

Murtough does now have a thick dossier that outlines targets for each position, categorising them by levels of quality based on scouting reports and data, as well as detailing their expected cost. But that uncertainty at the start emboldened Ten Hag to take matters into his own hands in certain circumstances, such as when Murtough returned with a list of centre-backs that included Ajax’s Lisandro Martinez. Josko Gvardiol, Alessandro Bastoni and Pau Torres were also discussed but Ten Hag preferred Martinez, partially due to their established relationship and the player’s attainability, but also because he was seen as the most suitable of the targets. Martinez understood Ten Hag’s way of working, so had merit as the first piece in his jigsaw, and Murtough, seen by some former colleagues as an administrator rather than a visionary, acquiesced.

United went for Casemiro because Ten Hag needed an immediate impact and he was available having decided to leave Real Madrid after nine years. United’s football department mapped out how he would fit in the team, delved into his injury record, and came to a unanimous decision to proceed. At the time, West Ham were refusing to entertain offers for Rice and Ten Hag did not want to wait.

With his options limited, Ten Hag identified compatriot Wout Weghorst because he wanted a striker who could join as soon as the window opened.

Bayern took calls from Kees Vos, Ten Hag’s agent, once the extent of Eriksen’s injury became known. Vos, a co-founder of SEG, has been a visible presence around United since Ten Hag’s appointment, attending games in the Old Trafford directors’ box and visiting Carrington for meetings. He has been seen in the training-ground canteen where players eat, access some staff have questioned. United are conscious of potential conflicts of interest but are satisfied with an arrangement that assists their ability to assess the market.

https://theathletic.com/4071426/202...t-trackerman-ten-hags-influence-and-a-grades/

Among the first things Erik ten Hag did once in the building at Manchester United was gather together the main scouts to go through his idea for players.

United have given Ten Hag a leading voice on transfers because he is the person who has to pick the team each matchday, and club executives have faith he will be in position to do so for a considerable time.

Ten Hag made clear De Jong, who he had managed at Ajax, was his No 1 choice for central midfield and Murtough tried to facilitate this. Much of the summer window was then spent waiting for the player to come around to the idea of swapping Barcelona for United. Multiple senior figures at Old Trafford felt the club should have moved on from him sooner.

As things stand at United, though, the vision comes from the manager; in this case, Ten Hag.

Antony was on United’s list, alongside two other right-wingers, before his Ajax boss Ten Hag was hired. Lawlor and Bout are said to have advised against signing the Brazil international for a significant fee but United do have positive reports on him from their since-departed scouts in the system.

Martinez, also of Ajax, was one of five left-footed centre-back targets flagged by scouts, with Ten Hag picking him out.

Clearly though, Ten Hag’s view carries significant, perhaps decisive, weight.

 

[Woziak]

Points 3, 5, and 6 are irrelevant and none of them make sense to have as a criteria when looking for a new manager.

So you don’t want your Manager to be a winner or have experience of wining a major league, you don’t want your manager to install a wining culture?

Why on Earth did we appoint Omar Berada as CEO then, it’s not important for him to come from two wining cultures of elite clubs, no we should just go and appoint Stephen Bettis, he talks well has a MBA, like you said it’s not important for a behemoth of a club like Manchester United to want a Manager that has a track record of wining!

I’m sure that I represent the 90% majority on this one !

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Let's not pretend he's not been largely culpable for our dealings...

https://theathletic.com/3562326/2022/09/03/manchester-united-window-erik-ten-hag-budget/











https://theathletic.com/3555330/2022/08/31/man-utd-ten-hag-transfers/



https://theathletic.com/5151315/2023/12/22/manchester-united-fotball-news-transfers/









https://theathletic.com/4071426/202...t-trackerman-ten-hags-influence-and-a-grades/

I forgot that he tried to sign Arnoutovic as a main striker. And Rabiot. Christ.

It also worries me when Ten Hag says that under the new regime he would still have a voice in recruitment. It's clearly not his thing.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

People write him off because he failed at Chelsea and looked out of his depth. He was the candidate with the most votes after Ten Hag in one of the polls after Ole was sacked.

@Tinúviel

I thought people would only say it after he joined , but He’s already out of his depth before he’s even joined in some people’s eyes. This is the point I was making. I can see “ETH/Moyes 2.0” being thrown at him a few months into a difficult season.

 

[Woziak]

Amorim is the ideal candidate. He's young at just 39, but already has a good body of work under his belt. Modern coach.

He's won trophies with both Braga and Sporting who aren't as big as Benfica and Porto who are the two biggest Portuguese clubs.
I like this option too but do we go for a short term fix like Tuchel, Flick or Conte for 2-3 years just to get some silverware and consistency of top 4/5 and CL football then let an Amorim, L Enrique(he’ll be available by then) or J Naigelsman build a dynasty for 7-10 years. I just think our pampered players who moan about every manager, really do deserve a CNUT like Conte to drill them into submission, he’ll Piss off so many players, they will leave willingly that’s why him or Tuchel are perfect for the summer and next two/three years !
He's had to deal with losings several key players during his time at Sporting. Nuno Mendes, Joao Palhinha, Matheus Nunes, Pedro Porro, Manuel Ugarte, etc.

Sporting are in with a chance at winning the league again this season. They play some good stuff. 66 goals scored from 23 league games.

He's mainatined a win % of over 70% at every club/role so far in his career. He has the makings of an elite coach.

 

[pocco]

I was talking to somebody yesterday about the manager situation and they were saying that we apparently can't sack ETH and pay a fee for Ashworth as we will then fall foul of FFP. Any truth in this?

 

[VP89]

Let's not pretend he's not been largely culpable for our dealings...

https://theathletic.com/3562326/2022/09/03/manchester-united-window-erik-ten-hag-budget/











https://theathletic.com/3555330/2022/08/31/man-utd-ten-hag-transfers/



https://theathletic.com/5151315/2023/12/22/manchester-united-fotball-news-transfers/









https://theathletic.com/4071426/202...t-trackerman-ten-hags-influence-and-a-grades/

Lets not also pretend that he's solely culpable, and let's not pretend that the lack of structure put a bigger onus on him than what he's used to.

Again, the problem is structural more than anything else. Having a voice in transfers isn't abnormal for managers, and it doesn't mean he's solely the reason behind certain failures.

Pushing for Amrabat because you can only dumpster dive for loans, and limiting yourself to bargain deals for Eriksen, Weghorst, Sabitzer etc. Tends to be a symptom of poor resource allocation. Which is the job of the CEO and DoF.

If you read your quotes posted its basically saying that Ten Hag wanted a say, but he doesn't have the sole say. You also missed out (maybe by design) the failures of Murtough that pushed Ten Hag in a more exposed space. For example how Murtough had feck all alternatives for the most part and only later did he compile a thick dossier.

The suggestions by Murtough were also on weaker alternatives, such as Pau torres instead of licha, or Kolo Muani over Hojlund.

What's essentially happened is Ten Hag wanted to be in the room for transfer strategy, which he wasn't at Ajax. Not exactly unreasonable, as long as he's not controlling the sole decisions. However the ineptness of Murtough meant that it was basically "Hi Eric who do you want m8".

Murtough had head scouts sacked, all targets rolled into him and all he could muster from our wide network were established names that were weaker transfers than the ones we opted for.

The only annoyance I have on ten hag is an Antony pursuit. I'm ok with Onana once he has a ball playing defence to work with, and I think Mount was a joint pursuit. Antony is the only transfer I can say "yeah ten hag pushed and pushed and put his name on that and he fecked it"

 

[gajender]

I was talking to somebody yesterday about the manager situation and they were saying that we apparently can't sack ETH and pay a fee for Ashworth as we will then fall foul of FFP. Any truth in this?

Nah that's BS even if it was true there is actually quite easy way around it Send Ten Hag on Gardening leave till Summer and Let McLaren take the reign till then . Their wages are already accounted for .

 

[pocco]

Lets not also pretend that he's solely culpable, and let's not pretend that the lack of structure put a bigger onus on him than what he's used to.

Again, the problem is structural more than anything else.

Not saying he's solely culpable, but I think it's clear he has been very aware of the budget and fees throughout and has approved each singing. If the Athletic is to be believed, he wanted this additional 'onus'. So he can't really complain now.

 

[stefan92]

I was talking to somebody yesterday about the manager situation and they were saying that we apparently can't sack ETH and pay a fee for Ashworth as we will then fall foul of FFP. Any truth in this?

That would most likely depend on the terms. If you have to pay EtH a years salary immediately it might be a problem, if you can send him on gardening leave and negotiate actual contract termination in the summer after this season you shouldn't have problems

 

[VP89]

Not saying he's solely culpable, but I think it's clear he has been very aware of the budget and fees throughout and has approved each singing. If the Athletic is to be believed, he wanted this additional 'onus'. So he can't really complain now.

What makes you say he was aware of the budget and fees to the level he should be?

In one of the Athletic articles it shows that Murtough wasn't good at communicating fees and structure to the manager. With Ole he led him on to think Diallo would be an academy player, then spent a lot without telling him and Ole was told he's there for the first squad.

There was also a line where Ten Hag was told a budget that was not accurate to what was actually spent, but Im at work so I can't dig it out.

In any case, being aware of a broad budget is one thing. But not being supported with alternatives to your names is another. Ten hag is not a scout. No manager is. They will go on who they know because that is safest, but that's a problem. That's why Klopp preferred Brandt I think it was, over Salah. But he was supported by having the right people veto it and get the right people in. Eric doesn't have that here.

Moreover it doesn't help when you have a baffoon going in when mount is valued at £40m and leaving the table paying £55+5m. And also doesn't help when hojlund is told his valuation is £52. And Murtough rocks in dropping £76m.

Eric gets criticised with these transfer fees by association, but Murtough is the man negotiating and he's utter wank. And if the manager is told "hey mate it's this much money or we go with one of my names for the same price", he's in a losing position before the season starts.

 

[Rojofiam]

So you don’t want your Manager to be a winner or have experience of wining a major league, you don’t want your manager to install a wining culture?

Why on Earth did we appoint Omar Berada as CEO then, it’s not important for him to come from two wining cultures of elite clubs, no we should just go and appoint Stephen Bettis, he talks well has a MBA, like you said it’s not important for a behemoth of a club like Manchester United to want a Manager that has a track record of wining!

I’m sure that I represent the 90% majority on this one !

You need to open your eyes. What you're saying is like asking for 15 years of work experience from a talented 20 year old in a job interview.

It completely dismisses young, upcoming managers who would potentially have what it takes to rebuild United, in favour of ones that could easily be failures, but have won things mostly because they've been around for a while.

This "winner" and "winning culture" thing is overrated as well. There are plenty of managers who will win CLs, ELs and league titles within the next 10 years, who are completely unproven and unknown with an empty CV right now.

Alonso hasn't won anything, and yet is considered one of the best upcoming managers in the world. There are others like him out there too.

Guardiola was already a great manager in Barca B, just hadn't had the opportunity to prove himself on the biggest stage yet at that time. Same as Wenger in Nagoya, Sir Alex before United and Aberdeen, Klopp at Mainz, Arteta being Pep's assistant at City, Mourinho before even taking over Porto, etc.

Trophies and a good win-rate is always a good thing, but when a manager doesn't have one or both of them, it requires a lot of context before you can draw conclusions on their ability. It doesn't just mean that they simply aren't up to managing a big club like United.

 

[stefan92]

You need to open your eyes. What you're saying is like asking for 15 years of work experience from a talented 20 year old in a job interview.

You are absolutely right. But to be fair, we have loads of people on here who think that EtH still counts as a "young and upcoming" manager because they believe he just now has reached the stage of being ready to manage a big club like United. So people do realize that you can't have that experience as a 20 year old. But the question has to be asked like you do what "winning experience" really matters. Being used to a highly demanding "winning culture" is absolutely a point, but I don't believe it matters much if you refer this to having to win a big league or something smaller. It's the mentality and mindset that counts, and you can have that in smaller leagues, youth setups etc.

 

[pocco]

What makes you say he was aware of the budget and fees to the level he should be?

In one of the Athletic articles it shows that Murtough wasn't good at communicating fees and structure to the manager. With Ole he led him on to think Diallo would be an academy player, then spent a lot without telling him and Ole was told he's there for the first squad.

There was also a line where Ten Hag was told a budget that was not accurate to what was actually spent, but Im at work so I can't dig it out.

In any case, being aware of a broad budget is one thing. But not being supported with alternatives to your names is another. Ten hag is not a scout. No manager is. They will go on who they know because that is safest, but that's a problem. That's why Klopp preferred Brandt I think it was, over Salah. But he was supported by having the right people veto it and get the right people in. Eric doesn't have that here.

Moreover it doesn't help when you have a baffoon going in when mount is valued at £40m and leaving the table paying £55+5m. And also doesn't help when hojlund is told his valuation is £52. And Murtough rocks in dropping £76m.

Eric gets criticised with these transfer fees by association, but Murtough is the man negotiating and he's utter wank. And if the manager is told "hey mate it's this much money or we go with one of my names for the same price", he's in a losing position before the season starts.

Because he is apparently an ever-present in our recruitment meetings, where Murtough and Arnold had been attending to discuss this stuff. To be honest though, a lot of it was public knowledge anyway.

Also, I think the only inaccuracies in budget so far have been because we have overspent both summers.

The bolded bits are untrue, though. Those initial fees the media spoke about for Mount and Hojlund were bollocks. Do you honestly think they asked us for less and we just paid more?

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

I'm coming round on Nagelsmann. All the mooted candidates have big asterisks by their names, for me. I just feel Nagelsmann will 1) be likely to accept (unlike Alonso, Zidane), 2) is seemingly not wedded to a 3 at the back system (unlike Alonso, Amorim, Inzaghi), 3) doesn't require big compensation to clubs (unlike Alonso, Amorim, Inzaghi), 4) has won something at a big club (unlike Potter), 5) speaks perfect English (unlike Zidane, Inzaghi) and 6) while not super charismatic, has authority that I can imagine young men respecting (unlike ETH and Potter). Thiago Motta is interesting but I don't know enough about him.