[Idxomer]

One of the most absurd moments yesterday was him winning a header against 1.88m Archie Gray.

What's really promising about him is that he's delivering these performances while I don't think he has put all the pieces together yet. We see it in moves where the execution betrays him just slightly and you think with more experience, he turns those moves into far more dangerous situations. Barring any significant injuries, I believe he has another level in him.

 

[Oranges038]

Was watching his goal again, love the way he bends his run, forces Forster on to his right foot, then just uses his pace to get across his blind side and slide across him.

He's a very clever player.

 

[Rossa]

I don't think he's the quickest player in our team, I'm pretty sure that Rashford, Højlund and Garnacho would beat him in a footrace without breaking a sweat. It's the combination of an above average pace, great acceleration (both of which is something that he became significantly better at over the past few seasons) with incredible intensity and, most importantly, game intelligence. He knows exactly when to sprint and which trajectory to choose — even when he's pressing he often switches direction slightly multiple times which makes it even harder for the opponent to avoid him.

Depends on how you define quickest. In a five yard race, I think Antony might actually edge it, then Amad. In terms of top speed, probably Højlund, Rashford and Dalot with Garnacho quite close. We aren't stacked with very fast players like we once were.

Amad is very clever, however. His acceleration is very, very good, and his top speed is deceptively high. What he does, however, unlike many of his teammates, is that he doesn't go flat out. He holds back just a little bit, like the best wingers would; this enables him to have that extra gear that fools defenders every time. Giggs used to do it, Ronaldo, Nani etc.

I hate saying it as we shouldn't compare him too much to other players, but his running reminds me a little of Messi, Hazard etc where his top speed isn't Bale-esque, but he can twist and turn at very high speeds, and because he holds back just a little, when he goes toe to toe in a foot race, he often comes out on top because he fools the defender into thinking they have him, and then he puts in the last shift. I would like to see him do some more maze-dribbles like the aforementioned as I am sure he has the ability, but playing as a 10 also means that he has less space to do so.

 

[MadDogg]

Depends on how you define quickest. In a five yard race, I think Antony might actually edge it, then Amad. In terms of top speed, probably Højlund, Rashford and Dalot with Garnacho quite close. We aren't stacked with very fast players like we once were.

I think you're overrating Garnacho's pace a bit. I'd say he's closer to Amad's pace than the other three you name. I think Yoro and probably Ugarte are faster as well.

 

[Rossa]

I think you're overrating Garnacho's pace a bit. I'd say he's closer to Amad's pace than the other three you name. I think Yoro and probably Ugarte are faster as well.

Ugarte looks surprisingly fast - high frequency in those legs. Quite a physical leap from when he arrived and looked rather sluggish.

Garnacho holds the highest clocked top speed at United thus far this season - I'm not paying too much tribute to those stats as it doesn't say much about how long they held the speed etc, but it shows he can reach a fairly high top speed. I do agree that Højlund, Dalot and Rashford all look faster over distance though. Interesting to see Yoro going forwards. He looks a real talent!

 

[Robbie Boy]

Cracking player.

 

[erikcred]

People will start to recognise that he’s our best player by the time the season ends.

He’s that good.

Teams will double up on him soon enough and the others will need to make better use of their space and time.

 

[Smores]

Think that was obvious even last season... certainly in terms of talent

People would laugh at this opinion last season but they can see it before their eyes now.

The best players can read the game quicker than everyone else and Amad has that capability. It's a trait that will always elevate a player's performance.

I'd love us to sign Gyokeres because if you put Amad next a player who makes reliable runs he'll find him time and time again.

 

[statpadder]

What really amazes me is how well he reads his opponent.

I’ve lost count of him robbing his man/winning so many 50/50s and basically reading where the ball is going to go or what his fullback is going to do.

He’s deceptively fast as well when applying pressure.

And another! Just incredible

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

The bolded bit is a bit far fetched!

you never know, Forster might have Glaucoma?

 

[Winrar]

Why has he been sidelined in this club for so long? Quality player, loads of room to improve, delivers in big games.

 

[sglowrider]

Why has he been sidelined in this club for so long? Quality player, loads of room to improve, delivers in big games.

It was all part of the Ten Hag grand player development strategy -- Humiliation and ignoring of Amad has made him the elite player that he is today.

Amad will thank Erik later.

Meanwhile ETH will be sitting, relaxing on his sofa in his living room, beer in hand with his 115in TV on; proudly telling anyone who is willing to listen that he did all that. Amad's his boy.

"I did that!"

 

[Vidooq]

Top speed is a misleading stat. Amad is probably the fastest player in the squad with the ball at his feet, and that is what it counts. No doubt there are faster players then him without the ball.

I like everything about this kid, fearless, tenacious, always willing to attack the full back, just a joy to watch. He has that Ronaldinho type of smile in him when he plays football.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why has he been sidelined in this club for so long? Quality player, loads of room to improve, delivers in big games.

The boring, true answer is that he had a very successful spell on loan at Sunderland then his first season back at United after that was badly disrupted by a serious injury in pre-season.

But the caf seems to want to go with a narrative that our evil former manager did everything in his power to ruin Amad’s career and sabotage his own in the process.

You can take your pick. It doesn’t actually matter now anyway.

 

[lost7]

The boring, true answer is that he had a very successful spell on loan at Sunderland then his first season back at United after that was badly disrupted by a serious injury in pre-season.

But the caf seems to want to go with a narrative that our evil former manager did everything in his power to ruin Amad’s career and sabotage his own in the process.

You can take your pick. It doesn’t actually matter now anyway.

I'm sorry but if you play Mazraoui at 10 ahead of him, then you don't rate the kid

 

[criticalanalysis]

It’s true that we have quite a few players wothout the nous or timing for defensive duels. That said, being able to press consistently on touch in games is not as basic to master as it his to have learned or heard about - based on the evidence of how many times each game elite professionals with thousands of coaching hours don’t exploit it.

There's a middle ground between 'master of pressing on touch' and 'whatever the Utd players' are doing, which is my point. It's a basic concept that can immediately improve your timing of duels if they were made aware of it. I refuse to believe it's complicated or something they can't learn but then I will say that about other things like being smart at 'winning' aerials and our idiotic approach under many managers where we would often concede many counter attacks on corners. For the first one I will say look at Martinez, where if you aren't blessed with height or strength then your approach is not necessarily winning the ball but doing enough to affect the other player to not let them direct the ball at ease. Then secondly, why the hell are we always trying to win the first ball/header on our corners and everyone going for it at the same time. We often lose the first, second and third ball and our players are then already committed in their box; the simple solution would be to have secondary runs and more players on the edge of the box. These aren't alien concepts.

 

[The_Midfielder]

He loves the big stage doesn't he ..
Liverpool 120 min
City 90th min

 

[Zumbi]

The boring, true answer is that he had a very successful spell on loan at Sunderland then his first season back at United after that was badly disrupted by a serious injury in pre-season.

But the caf seems to want to go with a narrative that our evil former manager did everything in his power to ruin Amad’s career and sabotage his own in the process.

You can take your pick. It doesn’t actually matter now anyway.

*Our incompetent former manager didn’t give him the chances he could have when he was fit and available, often giving more minutes to less talented players, or doing things like playing a defender at 10 instead of him.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I'm sorry but if you play Mazraoui at 10 ahead of him, then you don't rate the kid

He refuses to accept anything other than “Amads path was perfectly fine for development” so it’s pointless to bring up contrary evidence.

 

[statpadder]

The boring, true answer is that he had a very successful spell on loan at Sunderland then his first season back at United after that was badly disrupted by a serious injury in pre-season.

But the caf seems to want to go with a narrative that our evil former manager did everything in his power to ruin Amad’s career and sabotage his own in the process.

You can take your pick. It doesn’t actually matter now anyway.

Funny you mention narratives when the first seems to be yours and is far from the truth.

The actual answer lies somewhere in between.

i.e. Clueless manager who had his favorite wingers and was reluctant to give chances to other players in those positions because he was afraid he would not be able win matches without them, hence loose his job.

Also the clueless manager had a history of being awful at managing minutes of the squad often causing players to fall out with him and seek playing time elsewhere.

Lastly, the clueless manager was a horrible judge of talent often buying and preferring inferior players.

Thankfully, we got rid of him, otherwise Amad would probably be doing the same in another team.

 

[Grande]

There's a middle ground between 'master of pressing on touch' and 'whatever the Utd players' are doing, which is my point. It's a basic concept that can immediately improve your timing of duels if they were made aware of it. I refuse to believe it's complicated or something they can't learn but then I will say that about other things like being smart at 'winning' aerials and our idiotic approach under many managers where we would often concede many counter attacks on corners. For the first one I will say look at Martinez, where if you aren't blessed with height or strength then your approach is not necessarily winning the ball but doing enough to affect the other player to not let them direct the ball at ease. Then secondly, why the hell are we always trying to win the first ball/header on our corners and everyone going for it at the same time. We often lose the first, second and third ball and our players are then already committed in their box; the simple solution would be to have secondary runs and more players on the edge of the box. These aren't alien concepts.

There are some different themes here. Why don’t a lot of footballers use a simple basic concept (press on touch)? What is your take on it? Is it a simple, but little know concept? Are there too many basic concepts in football for even professionals to learn all of them? Are five-a-side youth footballers simply better and smarter than pro footballers? Is pro football so hectic and taxing on the brain that it’s difficult to apply even basic concepts there? What do you think? I think it’s a mix of all of the above, maybe apart from the 5-aside-players option

When it comes to United specifically, I note that when the team struggled under Mourinho, it looked as if basic abilities were missing with many. Likewise when we struggled under Solskjær, Rangnick, Ten Hag, and now the errors made in defense under Amorim are mostly individual errors you see more commonly in amateur and kids football. So I think a combination of ‘much-new-stuff-to-think-about’, ‘few-milliseconds-to-think-about-it’, and uncertainty/inconfidence-due-in-large-part-to-the-above make even seasoned professional footballers forget kids concepts like watch your man when marking, protect the keeper on corner kicks, don’t set an offside trap when passer is not pressured Etc etc easily go out the window.

 

[OldTrevil]

15/16 Martial was liquid man. Probably my favorite single profile of a player we’ve had post SAF. Just rinsed fullbacks for fun with elite dribbling and creation while still being a quality finisher too. Unfortunately had to play in that abomination of a side.

Him and Amad would be recreating Barca level tiki taka here.

I love me some 15/16 Martial, but his best was 19/20 imo, where he turned into the complete modern #9 with elite link-up, hold up and finishing. That version of him with Amad would be utterly unplayable, you could almost throw in any other relatively competent player to finish up the front three as they would always have bags of space from the attention of the former duo.

Just for the fun of it to finish this thought experiment, my unpopular opinion of an interesting Amorim type front three with Amad and 19/20 Anto.

Martial
Mkhitaryan Amad​

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

I know it's not popular at all to play him there. But these games as a wingback are crucial for his development, having an understanding of the position behind him and the runs will help him in the long term in this system. As well as his work rate.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

I love me some 15/16 Martial, but his best was 19/20 imo, where he turned into the complete modern #9 with elite link-up, hold up and finishing. That version of him with Amad would be utterly unplayable, you could almost throw in any other relatively competent player to finish up the front three as they would always have bags of space from the attention of the former duo.

Just for the fun of it to finish this thought experiment, my unpopular opinion of an interesting Amorim type front three with Amad and 19/20 Anto.

Martial
Mkhitaryan Amad​

Juan in his prime instead of Mikhi at #10 and it would be gold.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

I love me some 15/16 Martial, but his best was 19/20 imo, where he turned into the complete modern #9 with elite link-up, hold up and finishing. That version of him with Amad would be utterly unplayable, you could almost throw in any other relatively competent player to finish up the front three as they would always have bags of space from the attention of the former duo.

Just for the fun of it to finish this thought experiment, my unpopular opinion of an interesting Amorim type front three with Amad and 19/20 Anto.

Martial
Mkhitaryan Amad​

Oh I agree 19/20 was the best version of him, was moreso just saying his 15/16 version was more "fun" with how absurd he was on the ball. But I still say 19/20 Martial is the best striker we've had since RVP in the title season.

 

[DWelbz19]

Juan in his prime instead of Mikhi at #10 and it would be gold.

Problem with that — Juan was a leftie too! Maybe you could do Amad RWB and Mata right no.10. Could work.

 

[Rossa]

Problem with that — Juan was a leftie too! Maybe you could do Amad RWB and Mata right no.10. Could work.

Or simply play Bruno, out best 10 by a great margin, next to Amad. Bruno, Amad and prime Martial would’ve been fun!

 

[jem]

Teams will double up on him soon enough and the others will need to make better use of their space and time.

Oh I agree 19/20 was the best version of him, was moreso just saying his 15/16 version was more "fun" with how absurd he was on the ball. But I still say 19/20 Martial is the best striker we've had since RVP in the title season.

Yeah his 2019-20 season is quite underrated, IMO.

 

[criticalanalysis]

There are some different themes here. Why don’t a lot of footballers use a simple basic concept (press on touch)? What is your take on it? Is it a simple, but little know concept? Are there too many basic concepts in football for even professionals to learn all of them? Are five-a-side youth footballers simply better and smarter than pro footballers? Is pro football so hectic and taxing on the brain that it’s difficult to apply even basic concepts there? What do you think? I think it’s a mix of all of the above, maybe apart from the 5-aside-players option

When it comes to United specifically, I note that when the team struggled under Mourinho, it looked as if basic abilities were missing with many. Likewise when we struggled under Solskjær, Rangnick, Ten Hag, and now the errors made in defense under Amorim are mostly individual errors you see more commonly in amateur and kids football. So I think a combination of ‘much-new-stuff-to-think-about’, ‘few-milliseconds-to-think-about-it’, and uncertainty/inconfidence-due-in-large-part-to-the-above make even seasoned professional footballers forget kids concepts like watch your man when marking, protect the keeper on corner kicks, don’t set an offside trap when passer is not pressured Etc etc easily go out the window.

I don't disagree with your general sentiment but then you've contradicted your original point of pressing on touch being potentially harder to 'master', which wasn't the main issue I was trying to address anyways. As you've concluded, it's a combination of factors, all of which if I had to simplify was just simply bad coaching and not necessarily due to skill/ability/time to learn. The fact Amorim has come in and seemingly fixed some of our issues regarding control (which 2 of our previous managers just simply abandoned or did not coach the team to care enough about) proves there are systemic things that can be managed when the top guy is showing them these things.

 

[RuudTom83]

The boring, true answer is that he had a very successful spell on loan at Sunderland then his first season back at United after that was badly disrupted by a serious injury in pre-season.

But the caf seems to want to go with a narrative that our evil former manager did everything in his power to ruin Amad’s career and sabotage his own in the process.

You can take your pick. It doesn’t actually matter now anyway.

So true, I'm tired of pointed out the kid missed 27 matches last season due to being injured.

But the urge to bash EtH is just too satisfying for some.

 

[Winrar]

The boring, true answer is that he had a very successful spell on loan at Sunderland then his first season back at United after that was badly disrupted by a serious injury in pre-season.

But the caf seems to want to go with a narrative that our evil former manager did everything in his power to ruin Amad’s career and sabotage his own in the process.

You can take your pick. It doesn’t actually matter now anyway.

Didn't play a single match for full 90 last season despite being match fit half way through the season in Dec 30, and didn't get a start until May when everything was done and dusted anyways.

I'd have more sympathy if the likes of Antony and Rashford occupying his position weren't shitting the bed one match after another. Crazy that people still want to defend ETH's obvious shortcomings.

 

[OldTrevil]

Juan in his prime instead of Mikhi at #10 and it would be gold.

Only issue is them both being left footers.

Oh I agree 19/20 was the best version of him, was moreso just saying his 15/16 version was more "fun" with how absurd he was on the ball. But I still say 19/20 Martial is the best striker we've had since RVP in the title season.

Okay I get you, yea he was scintillating on the ball in 15/26 without question, and also we had the biggest high as a team then. That injury time winner in the FA Cup semi and the way we went on to win the cup, the feelings still seem vivid. For sure man, so sad we had such a player in the club's most turbulent time.

Anyways back to Amad, for me all he needs now is consistent game time and a stable team around him and he will blow up.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

He's going to be the best or among the very best players in the league soon. His talent alone is top tier

 

[RedRoach]

One of the most absurd moments yesterday was him winning a header against 1.88m Archie Gray.

What's really promising about him is that he's delivering these performances while I don't think he has put all the pieces together yet. We see it in moves where the execution betrays him just slightly and you think with more experience, he turns those moves into far more dangerous situations. Barring any significant injuries, I believe he has another level in him.

He definitely does IMO. Also he has scored some stunning goals from freekicks for the Ivory Coast. Reckon he will develop into our free kick taker instead of Bruno over time.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

So true, I'm tired of pointed out the kid missed 27 matches last season due to being injured.

But the urge to bash EtH is just too satisfying for some.

It's been litigated to death but, again, he was fully fit and able to play from late Dec until the end of the season yet didn't start a match until May. Was an unused sub for 5 games after his winner against Liverpool saved ETH's ass. And this is all in a team that was comically bad going forward.

And then this season the same manager chose to use Mazraoui as a 10 over him. None of this is "made up" or "bashing ETH"

 

[RuudTom83]

And then this season the same manager chose to use Mazraoui as a 10 over him. None of this is "made up" or "bashing ETH"

Personally I was intrigued to see Mazraoui further up front as he is a talented player. It was an experiment that was used for 1 match, can't even remember if he played there for the full 90 minutes?

But with your logic I guess EtH hated all the attackers in the club when he choose to play a full back in an attacking role 'once'. But that's for another thread, the EtH bashing is still very much alive and kicking on the Cafe, but we can disagree on that point no problem.

Amad's time has arrived now! I choose to believe that is the natural course of his development, and I hope what we are seeing is a genuine talent and not just someone having a purple patch.

 

[Zumbi]

Personally I was intrigued to see Mazraoui further up front as he is a talented player. It was an experiment that was used for 1 match, can't even remember if he played there for the full 90 minutes?

But with your logic I guess EtH hated all the attackers in the club when he choose to play a full back in an attacking role 'once'. But that's for another thread, the EtH bashing is still very much alive and kicking on the Cafe, but we can disagree on that point no problem.

Amad's time has arrived now! I choose to believe that is the natural course of his development, and I hope what we are seeing is a genuine talent and not just someone having a purple patch.

Hyperbolic nonsense - that’s not his logic, that’s you straw manning him.

Just because a poster is using evidence to demonstrate how Ten Hag under utilized one of our most exciting attacking prospects even when he was fit, does not mean the same poster is “logically” claiming ETH hated all the attackers in the club. Why don’t you address the specific points he made instead of making up nonsense?

As for the Ten Hag bashing, he took us to record breakingly bad performances and results in both Europe and the PL. Then he was rightly fired for his inability to get the team performing, despite years of patience and £600 million spent. Are you really surprised that a manager who performed so poorly gets bashed on a football forum?

 

[Blood Mage]

He's embarrassingly better than all of other attackers and Ten Hag didn't rate him

 

[RuudTom83]

Hyperbolic nonsense - that’s not his logic, that’s you straw manning him.

Just because a poster is using evidence to demonstrate how Ten Hag under utilized one of our most exciting attacking prospects even when he was fit, does not mean the same poster is “logically” claiming ETH hated all the attackers in the club. Why don’t you address the specific points he made instead of making up nonsense?

As for the Ten Hag bashing, he took us to record breakingly bad performances and results in both Europe and the PL. Then he was rightly fired for his inability to get the team performing, despite years of patience and £600 million spent. Are you really surprised that a manager who performed so poorly gets bashed on a football forum?

Half of this has nothing to do with Amad, at some point we need to ban talking about EtH in player 24/25 performance threads.

Amad didn’t play much last season because he was injured and the coaches (who are far more qualified than anyone on the cafe) decided he wasn’t ready yet.

Let’s hope Amad can keep performing like he is now! under completely different circumstances.

Pointing out EtH played Maz once in a European game is hardly concrete proof the manager didn’t rate Amad.

 

[Zumbi]

Half of this has nothing to do with Amad, at some point we need to ban talking about EtH in player 24/25 performance threads.

Amad didn’t play much last season because he was injured and the coaches (who are far more qualified than anyone on the cafe) decided he wasn’t ready yet.

Let’s hope Amad can keep performing like he is now! under completely different circumstances.

Pointing out EtH played Maz once in a European game is hardly concrete proof the manager didn’t rate Amad.

Valencia Shin Crosses has already pointed out that he was fit and available for half the season and still barely played, even when the players ahead of him were performing poorly.

Making out like it’s just that one Maz example is disingenuous - that’s just the most egregious example in a pattern of him repeatedly playing other players ahead of him, so it’s abundantly clear ETH didn’t rate him as much as Amorim does. And so people are justified in making that comparison.