At least it's one criticism that can't be thrown at him....!
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
- Thread starter sewey89
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
At least it's one criticism that can't be thrown at him....!
I think 3 months ago we would all have agreed that the entire footballing approach required major heart surgery, not just some tinkering around the edges. And not even 10 games in plenty of people have forgotten already.
We could have gone for a continuity candidate who would have just upped morale, picked the players that ETH inexplicably ignored (e.g Amad and Ugarte), placated Rashford and Garnacho, and aimed for a spot in the Europa League. Ruud could have done this (he'd already started doing it in his 4 games), as could the new guy at Wolves, or any one of a lot of candidates. Amorim was completely clear right from the start that he was going to implement a completely new style of play, and that this would be painful - the fact that he was so open about it suggests that this was with the full support of the management structure above him. We all - pretty much without exception - applauded this as it's the correct approach. The timing has been cruel - trying to implement such a different style during a period where there is hardly any time to train is almost impossible, and we're paying the price for that at the moment, but it's short term pain for long term gain. Anyone on his case already and asking him to give up on his footballing ideals - the very things that he was appointed for - are nutcases.
We could have gone for a continuity candidate who would have just upped morale, picked the players that ETH inexplicably ignored (e.g Amad and Ugarte), placated Rashford and Garnacho, and aimed for a spot in the Europa League. Ruud could have done this (he'd already started doing it in his 4 games), as could the new guy at Wolves, or any one of a lot of candidates. Amorim was completely clear right from the start that he was going to implement a completely new style of play, and that this would be painful - the fact that he was so open about it suggests that this was with the full support of the management structure above him. We all - pretty much without exception - applauded this as it's the correct approach. The timing has been cruel - trying to implement such a different style during a period where there is hardly any time to train is almost impossible, and we're paying the price for that at the moment, but it's short term pain for long term gain. Anyone on his case already and asking him to give up on his footballing ideals - the very things that he was appointed for - are nutcases.
Bravo old chap
What was he complaining about when he was at United? It seems a lot of managers have done so like Mourinho and and this Ragnick guy.
It’s depressing
the facilities were exactly the same since he left in need of repair, and the younger players had no interest in learning/improving
Isnt Carrington undergoing a massive upgrade?
Yes, thats after he left though
And it should be mentioned that he said that while literal new buildings were built.
The fish tank is fecked.
He's basically saying Amorim is a fish and United are a spaceship or something.
The players not being professional seems a recurring theme, as for the rest I guess he really wanted out. Anyway if the enviorment is toxic and/or if the team is underperforming I'm more about siding with the managers and getting rid of the players who aren't fully commited to the team.
Spot on mate!
Are you bald?
Well our xG since Amorin is the worst in the whole PL.. Exclude the Everton game and it's even worse.. We have 3 choices: new players in January, Amorin change his tactics and selection or he will be fired while we fight relegation in say march..
Any source for this?
Careful now or we are meeting up in Hull...
Ah no, it's a purely academic line of questioning.
I think you’re on to something. No one with a full head of hair would even think about making a correlation
Yeah no arguments from me, a lot of the key cogs were gone.
This doesn't make sense to me. Amorim was hired because of the results and performances he achieved doing his thing. It wouldn't make any sense for him to come to United and do something else; the club should just have hired someone else in that case. So now he's here, he will be given a chance to implement his thing in full. And he hasn't had that chance yet. First because it's only been 1.5 months, and second because United have had a mid-week game (almost?) every week in that period.
With mid-week games, nearly all training ground is spent on recovery and match prep. There is next to no time to work on the positioning, patterns, routines, and automatisms that come with Amorim's system - and that work is needed, cause it's quite different from what Ten Hag did. All the same, you can already see the play changing and the accompanying development in underlying metrics.
I'm sure people will want all kinds of things, but in practice, I think only two things can reasonably be expected: either the club gives Amorim the full opportunity that his hiring represents, and don't ask him to change his approach while he's still in the middle (or rather: early phases) of implementing it. Or the club decides that it won't work and get someone else in. But it makes no sense to hire Amorim and then ask him to be another coach. In that case, the club should have hired another coach in the first place.
I'm sure some people would have preferred that (a different coach), but here we are. And so except if things really start going wrong (much worse than this), it's very unlikely that he's going to change his approach to accommodate the players or appease fans. That's not why he was hired (or at least, it would make no sense if he were), and he's already said multiple times that he won't. It is what it is!
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Good point, it is well known that hair prevent the full use of our brains.
His arse
Thank god for our flukey win vs City. I don’t think people realise how close we are to disaster. Not sure Amorim realises it. If we actually get into a relegation fight for real, he’s done.
And that's why I defended the idea of getting rid of ETH last summer instead of doing it in the middle of the season. In season sackings are by far the least optimal option so when you have good reasons to doubt your manager make things easier for everyone and get rid before preseason.
This is my favourite post in this thread
Disaster to me is carrying on how we have been for the last decade. A complete meltdown and total footballing reset would be preferable to me, even if that includes a few months flirting with the bottom quarter of the league.
Yep. It might also have made more sense to let Van Nistelrooij continue until he's crashed out of a few cups and Amorim could be hired and have more training time. Or whatever oyher scenario made more sense than the half-baked situation that United got themselves into now. But here we are, better roll with the punches now.
Regardless of whether this is true - why would you remove a game just to worsen a stat? What's the rational basis for that?
How was it flukey? United dominated most of the game.
Some don’t want to see, this guy and that ten hag loving vp89 seem to be relishing in some bad results
Nah mate, it's just that now we're actually trying to play football you're seeing their lack of quality for what it is.
I think we have to accept this season is a write off. If we could finish midtable and spend all of next season focusing on one game a week it would probably be good for us.
The other way of looking at it is that by the start of next season we'll be 9 months into the rebuild. Waiting until the summer would have just been delaying the inevitable, and even with a preseason there's nowhere near enough time to do a full rebuild in one summer. We're ripping the plaster off at the moment so the wound can heal in fresh air, rather than tentatively peeling the corner off the plaster, deciding it hurts too much and just resticking it as best we can whilst the wound festers underneath.
10 games is still nothing to go off, but it is crazy how few players have performed well consistently. Maybe 4? 5 if we're being generous:
Amad mostly at RWB, I haven't seen enough at #10 from him to be convinced, and Maz exclusively at RCB (terrible at WB).
GK
Maz* - Maguire - De Ligt
Amad* - Ugarte - CMF - LWB
RAM - LAM
ST
Maz* - Maguire - De Ligt
Amad* - Ugarte - CMF - LWB
RAM - LAM
ST
Amad mostly at RWB, I haven't seen enough at #10 from him to be convinced, and Maz exclusively at RCB (terrible at WB).
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I expect us to get beat by Arsenal in the FA Cup, but going out of the EL wouldn't be the worst thing for us in the long term imo. We need to get the players on the training pitch and get them drilled in the way he wants to play. The longer we're playing 3 games a week, the more painful this is going to get.
Probably time to think about a new manager.
Someone should comply a list of the people already wanting rid, they don't deserve to enjoy whats to come.
Only thing that might save us is, there's 3 teams who might actually be worse
The way I see it Ruben has to achieve three things.
1. sort out the rotten culture in the dressingroom
2. teach the players his overarching strategy, how he wants to win matches in general
3. teach them the tactic he chose to then implement said strategy on the pitch
I think his treatment of Rashford and Garnacho shows that he is on a good way regarding 1.
When it comes to my second Point I fully agree with him, he mustn‘t waver with that.
3. however… couldn‘t he have begun with a system where the Players generally know the roles? And then in the next preaseason tell them alright you know what I want from you, now we‘ll use 343 to do it.
Unless of course his 343 is basically it when it comes to strategy.
I‘m just concerned that he might not be able to convince this fickle bunch of players that it will work at some point.
And splitting 2. and 3. could show improvements earlier than now, and with these feckers that could make the difference.
Thoughts?
1. sort out the rotten culture in the dressingroom
2. teach the players his overarching strategy, how he wants to win matches in general
3. teach them the tactic he chose to then implement said strategy on the pitch
I think his treatment of Rashford and Garnacho shows that he is on a good way regarding 1.
When it comes to my second Point I fully agree with him, he mustn‘t waver with that.
3. however… couldn‘t he have begun with a system where the Players generally know the roles? And then in the next preaseason tell them alright you know what I want from you, now we‘ll use 343 to do it.
Unless of course his 343 is basically it when it comes to strategy.
I‘m just concerned that he might not be able to convince this fickle bunch of players that it will work at some point.
And splitting 2. and 3. could show improvements earlier than now, and with these feckers that could make the difference.
Thoughts?
Yep, that's true as well - but it might be that an interim coach that's just scrambling for points might have won more points in these busy months, to let Amorim.tqkr.over in January.
But then there are lots of arguments either way. And none of those matter, cause Amorim is at United already now.
