Hojlund and Zirkzee are considered an upgrade over Martial and Ronaldo? Come on mate... We replaced offensive players like Greenwood, Ronaldo, Martial, and Sancho with Antony, Hojlund, and Zirkzee, leaving Amorim completely devoid of reliable goal scorers. In my 40 years as a fan, I don't think we've ever had an attack as underwhelming as we do now. Last season's mid-table finish, and likely a similar outcome this year, aren’t down to luck, bad form, or any other excuse. It simply comes down to a very poor squad that lacks the quality to achieve anything better. They might have the potential to improve in the future or they might not, but as of now, they are exactly what they’re showing - poor.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
-
Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Hojlund and Zirkzee are considered an upgrade over Martial and Ronaldo? Come on mate... We replaced offensive players like Greenwood, Ronaldo, Martial, and Sancho with Antony, Hojlund, and Zirkzee, leaving Amorim completely devoid of reliable goal scorers. In my 40 years as a fan, I don't think we've ever had an attack as underwhelming as we do now. Last season's mid-table finish, and likely a similar outcome this year, aren’t down to luck, bad form, or any other excuse. It simply comes down to a very poor squad that lacks the quality to achieve anything better. They might have the potential to improve in the future or they might not, but as of now, they are exactly what they’re showing - poor.
It sure is a better squad. We did not finish third before ETH took over, but sixth?
Now that we look poor with a great new coach, excuses must be found. You lot argued we should be capable of top four under ETH, now you are changing your tune? With the addition of the players this summer, surely we could do even better?
Dalot, Mazraoui, Malacia, Amad and Antony are good wing back options. I‘m not even counting Shaw.
For me this season is a write off due to Amorim coming in mid season.
Would be true if not for players leaving then suddenly improving! Elanga, Alvaro, Sancho, Mengi, (towards the end) Dave, Sabitzer, didn't show anything for United.
It's not as if any of them have improved so much any of us would want them back. They're all below the quality we'd look for in a new signing
I agree though my view is he has immediate value next to Ugarte, which I think is being overlooked for Mainoo who hasn't been great. I think Eriksen can be utilised more too. Both of these players were refreshing introductions when RvN had taken over anyway.
Casemiro's looked fine at times, really terrible at others (especially that Liverpool game). But with Mainoo out of form I'd definitely play him, and he'd be very useful on set pieces too.
Agree, of course amorim has to plan for the future but we also need to stop the rot now and mainoo is struggling with form and the new system
Well said.
Hmm I'll take it you don't read much on the Caf, there are plenty who question our sales and many want Alvaro back.
My theory is when Amorim was appointed, the bullet was bitten so to speak and Ashworth fell on the sword as he was the one who thought we should have stuck with ETH for the upcoming season, and then on top of that he didn’t agree with the chosen way forward backed by Berrada and Wilcox, which was Amorim. While the played out meme is Ashworth wanted Southgate, I don’t think that was the case but I get the feeling he would have wanted a young British coach like Potter, O’Neil or McKenna.
The hope I have is come March/April, there will be more quality than what we’re seeing right now because we’re doing it for short term pain for long term gain. You could stick with RVN for the season but where does that realistically get us? We’re just kicking the can down the road again and leaving ourselves open for someone like Amorim to be poached by someone else and then the opportunity is gone.
Amorim must have been pitched something good to leave us mid-season. He could easily deferred until next summer when a bunch of other lucrative roles could open up.
The hope I have is come March/April, there will be more quality than what we’re seeing right now because we’re doing it for short term pain for long term gain. You could stick with RVN for the season but where does that realistically get us? We’re just kicking the can down the road again and leaving ourselves open for someone like Amorim to be poached by someone else and then the opportunity is gone.
Amorim must have been pitched something good to leave us mid-season. He could easily deferred until next summer when a bunch of other lucrative roles could open up.
Alvaro is an outlier. Loaning and selling him were strange decisions, as a squad player he had value for us last season since Malacia started the season injured and it's even truer this season. Now the reason he is an interesting target is because there is a buyback clause though the alleged fee seem to be too high for my taste.
Would it be a crazy idea for us to stick to the new system in the PL and FA Cup regardless of results, but go pragmatic in the EL in order to try to backdoor our way into next season's CL? To me this feels like a sensible approach, but I'm not sure how feasible it is in practice.
Pragmatic how? Change formation?
Yes, basically just try to win ugly / grind out results in the knockout rounds.
Don't see how that could work or how that would make any sense from a team point of view.
How much more "pragmatism" would you like? We have been fielding 5-6 defensive-minded/hard-working players lately.
Why would we do that? What’s the point is changing formations? Players can’t even cope with playing one way week to week. You start changing formations every week they will capitulate even more. Also it gives Amorim less ammunition to continue his way/system/formation if he keeps switching away from it. And he has never played 4 at the back so people need to stop telling him to do it. He won’t and rightfully so he shouldn’t!
Excellent post. This is exactly why, on reflection, it would have been so much better to have pulled the trigger on ETH sooner and got Amorim in before/during the summer. We needed that pre-season. This is arguably the worst period of time with the amount of games we have coming in, with no real time to plan and prepare some of the fundamental principles that Amorim wishes to instil. That decision to stick with ETH for the start of this season has cost us and is going to cost us for this campaign.
The performances have been such that he doesn't have five months to turn things around with the status quo.
There has to be a significant improvement with our playing system in the new year, else no one will trust an "untested" manager with the summer transfer kitty.
There has to be a significant improvement with our playing system in the new year, else no one will trust an "untested" manager with the summer transfer kitty.
Play some of the academy players! This is the worst collection of players I’ve seen in 35 years as a fan. I hope Ruben can keep us up at this rate.
Think he needs to be a bit braver with some of his selections, especially the wingbacks. As much as I think Amad is probably our best choice as a 10, playing him at wingback gives us an extra attacker and I think we have to find similar on the left hand side.
We need some energy and legs in the midfield, hopefully Collyer can get some minutes and I think Mazraoui could also do a job there as well. Maybe push Mainoo into a 10 role as he looks quite creative in and around the box when he plays quickly.
Ideally we’ll sign 2/3 in January and offload the same to give the squad a much needed boost for the second half of the season.
We need some energy and legs in the midfield, hopefully Collyer can get some minutes and I think Mazraoui could also do a job there as well. Maybe push Mainoo into a 10 role as he looks quite creative in and around the box when he plays quickly.
Ideally we’ll sign 2/3 in January and offload the same to give the squad a much needed boost for the second half of the season.
Since it was SJR who pushed for his immediate appointment (rumours have it that he said to Ruben now or never), while Amorim suggested it was best to take over next summer, I'm certain Amorim was given reassurances that he would get time and money to implement his ideas properly. Then again, the new boss fired his Sporting Director after 6 months, so you never know.
I had a similar opinion after the last games and it applies to both Amad and Mazraoui. Amad as a Wingback and Mazraoui as a CB have been consistent outlets for their nearest teammates and moving them has seemingly cut a string of connections. That observation made me realize that we do not have a single starting AM at the minute which is a big problem.
Loans.
Ole had a positive record vs Pep.
Yeah you're probably right. I care about my club though.
I'm willing to get behind this manager but we need to back him with signings this January or he is toast. That's not me wanting that to happen, it's what will happen with these current players.
He did although not sure what that’s got to do with what I said. Plus That was before our team got replaced with shitter players
It seems to me that Amorim is the best coach we've hired since Ferguson (given that Mourinho and Van Gaal were past their best), but he is wedded to a particular system and our current squad doesn't suit it at all. Both those factors worry me. I don't think the really top coaches are so inflexible that they can't change formation from time to time. And I wonder why Ineos would spend so much on players that don't suit Amorim if they had any kind of medium-term plan to bring him in.
I do worry about the wisdom of playing with three centre-backs. Ultimately you're saying that one of them is worth taking the place of an extra midfielder. I almost never see games where United are short in defence, but we always seem to be a man short in midfield. Also, too many of the players who've shone in recent seasons look out of place in this system - Garnacho, Dalot, Mainoo.
For the 3-4-3 to work at United I think at least one of the wide players needs to be primarily an attacker, but with the energy to get back and help the defence when required. Playing Dalot and Mazraoui, as we did at Wolves, should be reserved for games against the very top sides, when we expect to be defending most of the time. Amad has shown he can excel in the wide right position. I understand Garnacho is no defender, but I'd like to see him tried in a wide role at some point, too. He has the energy to get up and down the wing even if he doesn't have the defensive instincts.
I think Amorim will work out in the end, but we've brought him in at a strange time, with the games coming thick and fast. If he's only had four proper training sessions with the squad it's impossible to judge him yet.
I do worry about the wisdom of playing with three centre-backs. Ultimately you're saying that one of them is worth taking the place of an extra midfielder. I almost never see games where United are short in defence, but we always seem to be a man short in midfield. Also, too many of the players who've shone in recent seasons look out of place in this system - Garnacho, Dalot, Mainoo.
For the 3-4-3 to work at United I think at least one of the wide players needs to be primarily an attacker, but with the energy to get back and help the defence when required. Playing Dalot and Mazraoui, as we did at Wolves, should be reserved for games against the very top sides, when we expect to be defending most of the time. Amad has shown he can excel in the wide right position. I understand Garnacho is no defender, but I'd like to see him tried in a wide role at some point, too. He has the energy to get up and down the wing even if he doesn't have the defensive instincts.
I think Amorim will work out in the end, but we've brought him in at a strange time, with the games coming thick and fast. If he's only had four proper training sessions with the squad it's impossible to judge him yet.
Just caught up on this thread after a few days of mourning after Wolves. Am genuinely astonished that there are people here even implying that Amorim should be at risk.
The guy is clearly an elite coach and knows exactly what needs to happen. It'll be painful, very painful over the next few months but this is all completely necessary if we're to break the cycle we've been on.
He will succeed here in my opinion, I've got total faith. We'll also have to through some pretty serious shit to get there. If you're not prepared for that then I'd switch off this season because more painful results are inevitable while this process occurs.
The guy is clearly an elite coach and knows exactly what needs to happen. It'll be painful, very painful over the next few months but this is all completely necessary if we're to break the cycle we've been on.
He will succeed here in my opinion, I've got total faith. We'll also have to through some pretty serious shit to get there. If you're not prepared for that then I'd switch off this season because more painful results are inevitable while this process occurs.
Good post.
The four proper training sessions thing is mind blowing, and if it doesn’t give people food for thought nothing will. He’s had basically no time to get his ideas across.
Just that you're having a go for someone for defending a manager when criticizing another who just beat City which hasn't been uncommon for us. EtH beat them twice. If we'd only play City we wouldn't do worse than any average season so us beating City isn't the objectively positive thing that you might think it is, especially not when they're in their worst form of the past 70 years or so. Or if you think that's good then maybe Ole was not so bad with his 2nd and 3rd placed finishes and decent CL runs?
Seems strange to me to simultaneously shit on former managers whilst praising someone who's fairly new into managing clubs and has done pretty badly for us. Maybe we should wait a little. Moyes did poorly from the start. The others all had decent (relatively speaking) two seasons overall with everything falling apart in their 3rd.
This is a new one for us. We have to go back decades to see a manager come in and results get worse. It's also down to the manager. He's deciding to implement his new tactics when there isn't time on the training ground to learn it instead players are having to learn on the go whilst being rotated. Obviously not ideal. Maybe it will pay off. The optimist in me just isn't there for it because that means believing unconditionally in the manager with the current squad AND that the people above him have the good decision making to see it through. We've never had both since Gill and SAF retired so I totally get why people don't have the patience to see through the kind of slump we're in now.
When did you get a name change?
I don't see how it can possibly be true. He has been in post for about six weeks. Try just coming in for training more than once a week?
The circle of managerial life at our club.
Depends on what he considers a proper training session. Obviously he’s had more than four sessions with the team.
The point in getting him earlier (not going with interim) is that he has enough time to set this team up for next season. So, he definitely needs to keep up with his system and his ideas.
At least when next season starts this team and this players will be familiar with it. And he will get a clear picture who needs to be sold.
Full support to Amorim.
At least when next season starts this team and this players will be familiar with it. And he will get a clear picture who needs to be sold.
Full support to Amorim.
What's the difference between a training session and a proper training session? Why not do proper training at more of the training sessions?
They're not real questions that anyone can give an answer to because ultimately the "four training sessions" thing is media soundbyte bollocks.
Obviously the point he's trying to make is he hasn't been in post for long - which is fair enough and I don't think anyone should be writing him off at this stage. But the four training sessions line just seems like an insult to our intelligence and it's a bit grating to see it repeated at face value.
I don’t think beating city is the objective thing you’re making it out to be. I brought that up as it was just a week or so ago we beat them and the manger was being criticised after it.
I didn’t bother reading the rest sorry
Most of the time in between back to back games, players that played are in recovery sessions. So you don‘t get to train with the full squad.