Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Man United are currently 33 to 40/1 with bookies to get relegated. Man City are 8 to 10/1 are they expecting the 115 charges case to reach a conclusion soon?
When Pep came into City he basically pushed out their star striker and goalkeeper, along with Yaya and a host of other players that were previously key to any success they had. And they are much, much better players than we have.
For the last however many years, the most common criticism of the team from United fans has been a lack of any discernible style or philosophy. There is only one way to solve that.
Did you miss that infographic of this being the worst run in 103 years for us? Or miss that bit about losing 5 of 6 matches, with 2 nailed-on defeats coming up? That's where we are at. Team selection and formation go hand in hand. Remember Pep playing with a false 9 because they didn't have an actual striker? Things like that.
Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest given how poorly run we were (still are?)
Perhaps start listening to the people who's actual job it is to identify these players, albeit with the brief on the system they need to fit into
Would be interesting to know who's signing Zirkzee was. If the rumours in the match day thread about Italy being interested are true, bite their hand off asap, it's a bit slower there so would suit him a bit better and maybe give a small budget we can use for a striker who can actually score goals, even if on loan. Although we did that last winter and got bloody WW...
Okay, mate.
I think I’ll take a pause from discussing with any of the fans that are laying into the manager now. It’s been eye opening, to say the least.
The players are playing worse than before for the reasons stated previously.
Hence the reason the results are so bad.
If anyone wasn't worried before last night, they should be today, that's the worst Utd team I've in 40yrs, if that was Southampton/Leicester etc putting in that display, everyone would say they a certainty to go down, just because its Utd dont think it can't happen, if we get dragged into one, would you trust these players to get us out?
So is that going to change over the next 2 games if we go 4.2.3.1? Why are you talking as if changing to a back 4 is a sure fire way to get wins?
It's hard to be positive with the endless negativity about a manager whose only been here a matter of weeks, thankfully some of us try to be.
exactly, you'd have to have slept through everything that was said surrounding his appointment, and a lot was said. Literally not the appointment that was to steady the ship, quite the opposite.
Right manager but wrong players.
With owners who don't seem inclined to break the bank to bring in the right players.
I’ve been posting on this forum for about twelve years. It’s become so tiresome now, which is a shame. It’s become so hysterical, recently.
Its not down the owners how much we spend. Its down to FFP and rules governing it. Unless you want to go down the City route.
Some of them still have PTSD from baldy. Thats why its getting even worse than normal.
Normally, I would be hoping that the manager has some ideas up his sleeve for a game against this lot. But Amorim is nothing if not predictable, as he keeps reminding everyone.
I get you. Salah 1v1 against Martinez. Pain
Bit like Ange, and we've seen how that game went. In a few days, you can expect some patronising comments from Slot in the pre-game interviews about how he admires Amorim for his unwavering attachment to his system.
And Pep had very mixed results and took some 0-4 drubbings. Even though he had full preseason and got to buy some good players.
We are doing it the hard way, very limited budget and very dysfunctional squad.
Lest I get lumped in with a crowd I'm not running with, I'm glad we got Amorim. I think we do need a system reset as well as a cultural reset. We need to ship out 2/3 of the squad. In the meantime, not making unforced errors like the team selection against Newcastle will go a long ways towards preserving our sanity. In that Newcastle game, with Bruno and Ugarte out, maybe we set up instead to play for a draw for one game. Being pragmatic can coexist with trying to implement a new way forward.
This team selection narrative has also been overplayed since last night. Are you confident if we started Mainoo from the start, we would have gotten a positive result here? We had the best XI against Bournemouth and Wolves. Why didnt we get a result then?
Classic redcafe. We have dozens of posts having a go at the manager for not picking the lineup they thought/hoped he would pick against Newcastle and now we have posters pre-emptively having a moan about how the team he picks against Liverpool is too predictable.
What are you talking about? You do understand the PSR constraints, right?
Ratcliffe and INEOS cant just make donations or "break the bank". Their hands are tied because of ridiculous transfer fees paid and wages given to the likes of Mount, Casemiro and Antony.
We have to sell to buy but have very few assets that other clubs would be interested in.
If there was no PSR, then im sure Ratcliffe would be spending some of his money to give the club a leg up - we know he is inpatient. As would the Saudis and Newcastle.
This. We will start Mainoo and Ugarte in midfield with Bruno and Amad ahead of them and people will complain he should have done something differently.
As if any line up that Amorim had picked, or formation used, would have made a jot of difference. Newcastle are to a man, fitter, more motivated, more confident, in great form, and have an established system and one of the best strikers in the league on top form.
Yet, RedCafe be like "oh, if only Mainoo played". Like he has looked remotely on it after his injury. He is miles of the pace.
It will be the same v Liverpool. Daggers out when we get beaten by, on form, the best team in world football.
So there's no point in having a manager at all, in your opinion? If no conceivable combination of decisions could have led to a different result, then why have anyone on the touchline at all? That doesn't exactly make sense.
Mainoo is not the Mainoo of last season... yet we instantly improved when he came on. This is that whole pragmatic thing we keep talking about.
Well it's not that simple to just say we need to win matches so feck system. Yeah we will win couple of matches but will be back to the same crap if there is no strategy or system. And let us not talk about being entertained, we have not been entertained on a consistent basis for ages now.
Amorim may be another van gaal but at least let him do his work than just shouting after a month, hey I want to be entertained and win matches. Good luck being entertained with the current squad.
The reserve goalkeeper coming on would have improved us, we were that bad!
100%. Spending way too much time on this place has taught me that there is ALWAYS a way to blame the manager after every match we lose, no matter the circumstances, no matter the manager. It was exactly the same when Fergie was in charge.
The bank is already broken. Don't think we can break it any more.
Or maybe we should just deal with the 115 charges like City have. Let's do 116, actually, because we should always do better than them.
At the risk of over-simplifying:
1. We were ROTTING away under Ten Hag.
We scored 57 goals under him last season and didn't add game changing attacking players over the summer. We scored 5 goals in our first 7 games of the season. Amorim came to a demoralized club that was in utter disarray.
2. Our squad is horribly unbalanced and lacking quality in important areas.
Does this point need any elaborating? Casemiro and Eriksen are 2/5 of our midfield options and they are past it. We have the least productive group of attacking players at the club since the mid-1980s. We have a grand total of two working full-backs. Ten Hag's reign left an inadequate squad of substandard players.
3. We have had a truly punishing run of fixtures during the busiest time of the season.
In our last six league games, we have played 5 teams in the top 6 (technically Bournemouth are now 7th but have been in the top six over Christmas time). Sometimes the fixture list is cruel, it happens.
4. New manager installed mid-season, with an obvious lack of time to train the squad and implement new ideas.
Again, does this need elaborating? I know what some will say: then why are we trying to implement new ideas? Well, the old ones weren't working either and we have a manager who has a clear vision and belief in his principles.
There is even more context to provide further mitigation of our (truly dire) recent form, but I feel it shouldn't be necessary. The points above say it all and this is why Amorim said what he said about a storm ahead etc.
Sometimes it is actually so simple: we are in a horrible run, there was a good chance this was going to happen, so we need to keep our heads above water, get through the turbulence to a more manageable run of games (coming after the next two fixtures, hopefully) and until then remain together. In the age of social media, this is hard to do, but I personally encourage people to take a step back and unplug a bit from the discourse taking place between the games.
I just don't see how anyone can be subjecting Amorim to ultimata or warnings about his future at this early stage in the piece. The man left a champion machine that he built so that he could take over this shit heap in the middle of the season. I say we stand in his corner.
1. We were ROTTING away under Ten Hag.
We scored 57 goals under him last season and didn't add game changing attacking players over the summer. We scored 5 goals in our first 7 games of the season. Amorim came to a demoralized club that was in utter disarray.
2. Our squad is horribly unbalanced and lacking quality in important areas.
Does this point need any elaborating? Casemiro and Eriksen are 2/5 of our midfield options and they are past it. We have the least productive group of attacking players at the club since the mid-1980s. We have a grand total of two working full-backs. Ten Hag's reign left an inadequate squad of substandard players.
3. We have had a truly punishing run of fixtures during the busiest time of the season.
In our last six league games, we have played 5 teams in the top 6 (technically Bournemouth are now 7th but have been in the top six over Christmas time). Sometimes the fixture list is cruel, it happens.
4. New manager installed mid-season, with an obvious lack of time to train the squad and implement new ideas.
Again, does this need elaborating? I know what some will say: then why are we trying to implement new ideas? Well, the old ones weren't working either and we have a manager who has a clear vision and belief in his principles.
There is even more context to provide further mitigation of our (truly dire) recent form, but I feel it shouldn't be necessary. The points above say it all and this is why Amorim said what he said about a storm ahead etc.
Sometimes it is actually so simple: we are in a horrible run, there was a good chance this was going to happen, so we need to keep our heads above water, get through the turbulence to a more manageable run of games (coming after the next two fixtures, hopefully) and until then remain together. In the age of social media, this is hard to do, but I personally encourage people to take a step back and unplug a bit from the discourse taking place between the games.
I just don't see how anyone can be subjecting Amorim to ultimata or warnings about his future at this early stage in the piece. The man left a champion machine that he built so that he could take over this shit heap in the middle of the season. I say we stand in his corner.
Season a right off but Amorin is the guy. It's going to get worse before it gets better but hopefully the fan base can finally see the bigger picture and the squad for what it is, garbage at even doing the basics right. It's not always on the manager.
Well the fans can only speculate, they have no clue about the strategy and system, that is behind the curtains for the manager, staff and the board to know and implement.
The fans want results and a cohesive way of playing football.
Also there is no winning strategy that implies losing all the games and being pathetic on the pitch, or at least I haven't heard of that yet.
Was just about to say this. We've spent more than any team on the planet in the last 10 years. This is not a spending problem.
Mate, ten mins ago i had to explain to you what PSR was, so lets not be facetious.
The point is, that Amorim doesn't have the tools at his disposal to win a game against a red hot Newcastle right now - especially without Bruno and Ugate. As i said, Newcastle are far fitter, more organized, have better players, have the best striker in the league on form and are at a very different place in their evolution than United are after 50 days under Amorim.
But if you think a couple of player swaps and a formation change is going to change that, then would love to hear it? Once you have learned a little more about PSR and why our owners cant "break the bank" as you suggested.
Great post. Slightly depressing that so much of what you says is so obvious yet still needs to be repeated.
I get that but what I am saying is sometimes it takes time and is not that simple. Amorim has two options , give up on his ideology that made him successful for short term results or stick to his principles and ride the storm and reap the reward long term. I rather he try the latter and fail (if he fails) than doing the former like eth did and fail.
Quality post. Every weak livered bedwetter in this thread needs to print this out and read it before and after each game.
Teams week in week out are targeting our weakness which is defending set pieces and crosses. This is an issue that needs to be addressed.
I agree. But we’ve had the same issues manager after manager. The players are awful yes, but a managers job should be to get the best out of the players. Ipswich don’t have a better squad than us, yet McKenna is racking up wins against Chelsea. Neither do forest, they finished like 17th last season and now there top 4. Because nuno is getting the best out of them.
To the point that people are making about Amorin being too stubborn persisting with the 3-4-2-1, trying to develop unsuitable players that may ultimately be leaving soon, I would counter this approach with one of the criticisms of EtH.
EtH got most of his plaudits for how his Ajax team played, then said he couldn't play that way at United and was criticised for that approach. This time the coach is sticking to his principles and surely his best chance of success is in doing things the way he knows how.
Also, when he's playing a back 3, with fullbacks as wingbacks and 2 deeper midfielders, and we're still easy to score against, shows Amorin every thing he needs to see about the current players... because you can't have a much more defensive set up than that. It's a system you'd expect wouldn't bring many goals for, but should have made us hard to beat.
EtH got most of his plaudits for how his Ajax team played, then said he couldn't play that way at United and was criticised for that approach. This time the coach is sticking to his principles and surely his best chance of success is in doing things the way he knows how.
Also, when he's playing a back 3, with fullbacks as wingbacks and 2 deeper midfielders, and we're still easy to score against, shows Amorin every thing he needs to see about the current players... because you can't have a much more defensive set up than that. It's a system you'd expect wouldn't bring many goals for, but should have made us hard to beat.