Show me some stats that Amad was great in that period. You‘ll find he wasn‘t.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Meanwhile Anthony was really tearing things up.
How involved was Amorim in transfers at Sporting? I assume Sporting had a great record when he was there?
Garnacho and Rashford were both playing, Antony not so much.
I’m really not looking forward to tomorrow. All I can hope for is something like the City game. I’d love for us to still be showing some high possession stats. We’re not gonna win because we just don’t create enough and their attack is deadly.
That’s a straw man. Many posters have simply argued he should have been given more chances than he was after that Liverpool game. That is a very reasonable assessment based on the evidence.
You defended Ten Hag not giving him those chances by repeatedly claiming he wasn’t selected because he was injured. But that is just flat out wrong. It seems to be something you made up, either deliberately or subconsciously, in order to try and back up a particular narrative that is at odds with reality.
Now you’re changing the goal posts by demanding stats that show he was great in a period where he wasn’t even starting matches.
That’s a nonsense deflection and misses the point entirely - the point being that he wasn’t given chances to do much of anything in that period, with only sporadic sub appearances, despite being fit and available.
We know that the likes of Anthony were being selected ahead of him even though he was contributing even less, and we also know that Amad has been one of our most productive players since being trusted with a run of games. We also know that other coaches have admitted Ten Hag preferred Anthony to Amad because he thought he was better tactically, and wanted to stick with his own man.
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Wrong, again. Serious question: were you even watching us during that part of the season? Maybe you just have a poor memory?
In the eight matches after that Liverpool one, Anthony started four games and had three sub appearances. So yes, he was heavily favoured over a fit and available Amad, despite Amad’s cup heroics.
I am just curious, do you know how many minutes they both played after that (superb) Liverpool game?
Arguing with another member
He wasn‘t good in his sub appearances, until he was and got picked.
Well that was tedious but in the following eight matches Anthony played 404 minutes and Amad played 145 minutes.
Missing the point again - he was exceptional in his sub appearance against Liverpool and still didn't get any minutes at all in the next few games despite being available (except for the Brentford suspension).
Either way, you keep getting the most basic facts about that time period completely wrong, so forgive me if I completely disregarded your opinion on that time period.
Apologies, what's the source? I need to source mine better. I asked chatgpt
According to that it says :
After the FA Cup quarter-final against Liverpool, Amad Diallo played approximately 258 minutes, while Antony played around 405 minutes in the Premier League for the remainder of the 2023–2024 season.
For whatever it's worth I agree with the sentiment that Amad should have been utilised more especially post Liverpool.
Apologies, what's the source? I need to source mine better. I asked chatgpt
According to that it says :
After the FA Cup quarter-final against Liverpool, Amad Diallo played approximately 258 minutes, while Antony played around 405 minutes in the Premier League for the remainder of the 2023–2024 season.
For whatever it's worth I agree with the sentiment that Amad should have been utilised more especially post Liverpool.
I just randomly selected a sample size of the eight matches after that Liverpool game, because that seemed like a fairly demonstrative sample size of what happened with Ten Hag’s team selections in the following weeks.
Source is the team line ups and sub times from the Premier League stats.
He sold 10 in his first summer at Lisbon, bought 5 and promoted 5 from academy, something in those numbers.
How would he have won the league by finishing third?
Again, where did the manager say it will be ‘years before we see results’?
Maybe just try having a tiny bit of patience.
Seems like a really arbitrary way to judge a manager over such a small sample size. In any case, he subbed on two players against Spurs who both scored after coming on.
https: //x.com/UtdFaithfuls/status/1875497823493616061?t=ytEjfzXPKaECVfVsuESPEA&s=19
Can't post media but there are similarities.
Can't post media but there are similarities.
Good post.
@gulli_G thank you.
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There’s a weird obsession with individuals over the team or club full stop.
When a ‘sport’ becomes a commercial enterprise the paradigm obviously shifts.
People drawn in by advertising over an affinity with the game will result in increasingly varied perspectives. Some good, some downright bizarre.
Feels like we’re at a hyper-consumerist point in football now.
It’s not pretty but the horse has bolted.
(Old man shouts at clouds post)
The context is that many of the same arguments in favor of giving Amorim time to figure things out could have been used for Ten Hag. I like what Ten Hag would say in press conferences but we were a woeful team. All those games of the donut formation, for instance. The issue for me is that the club hierarchy has changed its hive mind with each manager, and that necessitates a complete overhaul of the squad and not just the 2 or 3 reinforcements we'd normally get.
In Amorim's case, reports seem to indicate he will go down with the ship rather than change course -- and I don't support that at all. Being sucked into a relegation fight is unimaginable and unacceptable. People in this thread seem to be saying to give Amorim "time" -- which is anywhere from 2 transfer windows to 2 seasons to get a side together that can approximate his previous approach. He wants wingbacks - and we have none. He wants a goal scorer - and we have none. He wants a functional defensive midfielder - etc.
Amorim had his say but the main man for the transfers and also for bringing Amorim himself to the club was Hugo Viana, their director of football. He is now going to replace Begiristain at City in the summer btw..
at the bold. As for the rest, the club did give ETH time though. ETH was here since 2022. He had time to get things into place for his football. But he didn’t. And we were still shit. Arguably regressing.
It’s markedly different to Amorim.
And I do think that Amorim should stick to his style, even if we don’t have the players. Otherwise it’s wasted time.
And lastly, we aren’t in a relegation battle nor will we be. It’s hyperbole.
Anyway why are the last 10 pages primarily about Ten Hag and De Ligt?
I like that he is saying out that our players are too afraid and anxious on the pitch to rely on what's coached and "take the easier route" instead to trust that that the coached patterns would work.
There will be people who are too thick ( read old-school) to understand this approach, but I like it.
https://
x.com/SkySportsNews/status/1875826080290115592?t=N11yXvJeBmAlZpJa_jIOLw&s=19
There will be people who are too thick ( read old-school) to understand this approach, but I like it.
https://
x.com/SkySportsNews/status/1875826080290115592?t=N11yXvJeBmAlZpJa_jIOLw&s=19
Agree, it would have been the same if we got Guardiola and most of our team would not be good enough to play his style. We would surely not be asking for Pep to change his style to adapt to our player but rather level up the quality.
As for the rest, the club did give ETH time though. ETH was here since 2022. He had time to get things into place for his football. But he didn’t. And we were still shit. Arguably regressing.
It’s markedly different to Amorim.
And I do think that Amorim should stick to his style, even if we don’t have the players. Otherwise it’s wasted time.
And lastly, we aren’t in a relegation battle nor will we be. It’s hyperbole.
It's not true that united has no leaders.
Onana is more vocal than De Gea.
De Ligt and Maguire also were Captain before as was Shaw.
Mainoo and Ugarte are up and coming. Casemiro and Eriksen were big leaders for their club and country.
Bruno is the captain for club. Rashford also captained side before. And players like Hojlund is larger than life in their own country.
Onana is more vocal than De Gea.
De Ligt and Maguire also were Captain before as was Shaw.
Mainoo and Ugarte are up and coming. Casemiro and Eriksen were big leaders for their club and country.
Bruno is the captain for club. Rashford also captained side before. And players like Hojlund is larger than life in their own country.
But this post is also a straw man. You can’t compare Guardiola, an established all time manager, with Amorim, who has been successful in a small league and otherwise achieved nothing. It’s much easier to say you wouldn’t tell Guardiola to change when you know his methods win you champions league trophies and trebles. You’ve no idea if waiting for Amorim delivers you anything.
None of this demonstrates they are leaders.
Yes, that's exactly why we signed him. De Gea had throat issues.
You make some good points.
My issue, as I've already said, is that the team that started v Newcastle was appalling. That had nothing to do with his "philosophy" or some long term project, he got everything very wrong and that cost us.
As I've also already said on here, football is a short term game now. Managers don't stay at clubs for long and even the ones that win major trophies (Klopp) are exhausted after 6/7 years. The game takes a lot more out of you compared to even a decade ago. Guardiola is probably the exception at city but even he has looked mentally drained this season.
Obviously, this should run parallel with a well-oiled machine off the pitch to make the transition periods easier (this is clearly something that Liverpool have excelled in).
Even if Amorim is successful, he'll be here for a maximum of 5/6 years before moving on. He ultimately needs results quickly because no owner can justify tossing away a season for the potential of 3 or 4 good ones. Perhaps the bad decision was appointing him now rather than the summer (past or future) but nobody can change that so the pressure is on to deliver something positive soon.
Totally agree with all this.
I don’t mind if we finish poorly and don’t win anything this season , for longer term good. But nobody can explain why not being pragmatic is a good thing. How does that help ? It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever when you dig into the concept. If this squad isn’t going to be able to perform at a level that doesn’t drag us into being spoken as relegation candidates, how does that help the team/club longer term ?
And all the people constantly trying to imply that all problems stem from ETH are now banking on a manager fixing all ills. Like have people learned absolutely nothing ?
What exactly would be bad if Amorim did what ETH did season 1, played some pragmatic football to lift mood and results (maybe got a run in Europa). How does that make the club worse off long term ? I don’t get what 5 months of torture will help longer term just so a Squad that’s gonna be replaced can suffer to learn how to play that system.
This feels like the usual United bollox of implying “we have long term plan and will play a certain way” which changes every few years.
Onana
“Don’t let him shoot!!”
Ah bollox
“Don’t let him cross!!l
Ah bollox
“Keepers ball”
Ah bollox
If he’s a leader god help us.
I hope this sufficiently motivates him to be an absolute brick wall today
Amorim has a free pass today in terms of result. I’m not gonna get on his back if we get beaten as I expect that to happen at present. A good performance would be nice though, don’t be afraid to challenge them
You jest but it was either Rio or Evra who have recently shared their first impressions of De Gea when he just came in to replace van der Sar. That the main difference was... the complete silence on the pitch, this is why they went to Fergie and asked to make Lindegaard first choice instead (thankfully, Ferguson had his own opinion on the matter and made the right choice).
He did improve somewhat over the years but he never became a great communicator on the pitch. Onana at least tries to organize the defensive unit around him even though he's also not very good at it as even his own positioning is often suspect.
What scoreline do you think would make it not a free pass ? 7-0 or higher ?
He’s a good coach and even if there’s a small minority of fans who’ve began criticising him being rigidly focused on the 3-4-3 system, he persisted with it at Sporting and proved his critics wrong. Just needs time but with the right personnel, it’ll click into place guaranteed.
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