City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome

[Irwin99]

I don’t think you can just take “a few points” off them when Forest and Everton were deducted 3 or 4 points for one or two charges. The precedent has been set. If my understanding is correct the deduction should be huge if they’re treated likewise.

 

[ROFLUTION]

No chance you get 19 teams to agree on that.

18 teams then? newcastle wont do it. Then the rest just refuse to play newcastle too, and the same will happen to them. Nice little bonus.

 

[Flying high]

Not sure why people think City are going to be punished. From all the noises I been hearing, reports and what is happening, it seems quite clear that they know they will be fine.

Them signing 2 players in January should tell you all, spending 100m in Jan when the hearing is in April, shows City know they are cleared and can continue with business as usual.

I'd say all the noise I've been hearing is that city and the PL are digging in for a long appeal process. That wouldn't be the case if the expcet to get off with it.

 

[Bosws87]

It’s got to be expulsion or footballs dead in this country anyway.

It’s the only solution or this model is hear to stay and that for me and many others is the end of the premier league as a spectacle.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I expect they'll get a 100+ points deduction and go down bottom. Probably they already know that's likely.

They'll be back up after a season like Juve back in the day. Medium abd long term won't hurt them much at all.

I doubt that happens but if it does then there is no way that it wouldn't signal a serious problem for them. Their only value to their owners is sports washing, if that were to happen then the "project" would be completely tarnished as a sports washing venture.

Their owners losing interest, an ageing squad and their senior leadership all going. It would be huge.

Won't happen though I'm sure.

 

[RomfordRed75]

I think they'll get a large enough points deduction, but not enough to relegate them. Interestingly the decision is March time when we'll have a far clearer idea of how many points will be needed to stay up. So let's say they are 40 points clear of relegation at the end of March. They may be docked an "unprecidented" 45 points which may drop them into the bottom 3, but with 9 or so games still left to play they'll still end up avoiding relegation.
So the only real punishment is a season without CL football.

 

[slyadams]

I fear you'll be right

They'll finish around 70 points this season I reckon, they'll be SLAPPED with a 30 point deduction and a big fine (to try to inflate the overall "punishment package", which sounds a bit like a BDSM sex toy), have a year off from Europe (if they don't win the CL) and then business as usual.

 

[padr81]

I doubt that happens but if it does then there is no way that it wouldn't signal a serious problem for them. Their only value to their owners is sports washing, if that were to happen then the "project" would be completely tarnished as a sports washing venture.

Their owners losing interest, an ageing squad and their senior leadership all going. It would be huge.

Won't happen though I'm sure.

Any kind of guilt on the big charges and its completely tarnished anyway. They'll forever be known as the biggest cheaters since the Calciopoli scandal.

 

[Nico87]

I know the investigation is being done by an independent panel.

What happens though if the panel finds them guilty of numerous charges, do they also decide the punishment?. Or does it revert back to the F.A?

 

[Wand of a right foot]

The only fair punishment would be relegation to the championship next season regardless of their position this season plus taking away their titles.

 

[lysglimt]

The precedent has already been set with Everton and Forest being deducted points though. I don't see how the Premier League can't deduct them points now.

I would think Everton and Forest would have a really good case if they sue the Premier League - considering that City are found guilty on something and don't get a serious point deduction

 

[lysglimt]

I don’t think you can just take “a few points” off them when Forest and Everton were deducted 3 or 4 points for one or two charges. The precedent has been set. If my understanding is correct the deduction should be huge if they’re treated likewise.

And - what Forest and Everton did was peanuts compared to some of the charges City have waiting.

 

[Moriarty]

The only fair punishment would be relegation to the championship next season regardless of their position this season plus taking away their titles.

Sod that. Capital punishment would be just for those cheating bastards.

 

[Darlington Padgett]

I'd say all the noise I've been hearing is that city and the PL are digging in for a long appeal process. That wouldn't be the case if the expcet to get off with it.

I believe they said they can't appeal any decision, I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Amity Survivor]

So do we know when an announcement of the decision is likely?
I’m hoping for a day long remembered , maybe we can celebrate every year, like Christmas

 

[Oranges038]

I believe they said they can't appeal any decision, I'm not 100% sure.

According to the finance guy on the overlap, there's a very narrow scope for appeal. He mentioned something about the conduct of the committee being grounds for an appeal.

Appeals just go before more independent commissions and panels. So, you'd imagine those guys would be happy to appeal as much as possible to keep this dragging on and the money roĺling in. Either way, City or the rest of the PL will be footing the bill.

 

[Redivy]

It's all been setup nicely this season.

They're nowhere near the title, dock a few points that will make no material difference to show how seriously we all take this, a nice fine to line the PL's pockets, then next season start afresh like it never happened.

I’m expecting something like that too.

They’ll get a 25 points deduction but they’ll make a point of it only being due to not cooperating, and not any foul play.

They’ll get a 100m fine.

They’ll finish 12th and the fine is pocket change for them.

And that’ll be it.

 

[Red_Aaron]

I'm actually not bothered about points deductions, fines, transfer bans etc - they'd be nice of course but not the main aim for me atm

The stripping of titles is absolutely the most important thing that has to be done here. If those seasons are found to be compromised they simply have to be taken away from city. We're not even discussing recent seasons with these charges, they can (and I assume) will be investigated after this is done. Points, fines etc for those would perhaps make more sense given proximity - although city will obviously drag the arse out of any proceedings again

Gauranteed relegation for next season but you can keep all your ill gotten gains going back 10+ years wouldn't fly with me and would send a message to any club looking to copy city that cheating is totally worth it

 

[lon ball2]

I’m expecting something like that too.

They’ll get a 25 points deduction but they’ll make a point of it only being due to not cooperating, and not any foul play.

They’ll get a 100m fine.

They’ll finish 12th and the fine is pocket change for them.

And that’ll be it.

Sadly this feel inevitable. Then a shiny PR campaign about boosting grassroots football with the proceeds

Perfect timing for it during a season in which they’re already out of the running

 

[2 man midfield]

The premier league would look like mugs if they allowed their rules to be flouted so egregiously and the team who did so for 10+ years only gets a slap on the wrist. They have to send out a warning to anyone else thinking of doing the same.

 

[Dan_F]

I’m expecting something like that too.

They’ll get a 25 points deduction but they’ll make a point of it only being due to not cooperating, and not any foul play.

They’ll get a 100m fine.

They’ll finish 12th and the fine is pocket change for them.

And that’ll be it.

That’s what I reckon. Leaving them no Europe next season, one game a week, they stroll to the title having spent a tonne of money to refresh the squad.

 

[DarkLord1984]

The premier league would look like mugs if they allowed their rules to be flouted so egregiously and the team who did so for 10+ years only gets a slap on the wrist. They have to send out a warning to anyone else thinking of doing the same.

This.

If Forest and Everton get points deductions and City get a slap on the wrist there will be uproar.

 

[HTG]

This.

If Forest and Everton get points deductions and City get a slap on the wrist there will be uproar.

There has been an uproar for years and it didn’t matter one bit. Whatever happens, people will be disappointed, write some angry stuff on the internet and a few weeks later, everyone has moved on.

 

[90 + 5min]

I'm actually not bothered about points deductions, fines, transfer bans etc - they'd be nice of course but not the main aim for me atm

The stripping of titles is absolutely the most important thing that has to be done here. If those seasons are found to be compromised they simply have to be taken away from city. We're not even discussing recent seasons with these charges, they can (and I assume) will be investigated after this is done. Points, fines etc for those would perhaps make more sense given proximity - although city will obviously drag the arse out of any proceedings again

Gauranteed relegation for next season but you can keep all your ill gotten gains going back 10+ years wouldn't fly with me and would send a message to any club looking to copy city that cheating is totally worth it

There is logic in this.

If they are found gulity by Premier League I don't know how Premier League can move forward without taking titles away. That is the most logic thing everything considered.

 

[Scriblerus]

Would a long-term transfer ban be out of the question?

 

[RoyH1]

Would a long-term transfer ban be out of the question?

This. Desperately needed. Ban on purchasing centre backs for a decade. That’ll teach them

 

[TheLiverBird]

I'm actually not bothered about points deductions, fines, transfer bans etc - they'd be nice of course but not the main aim for me atm

The stripping of titles is absolutely the most important thing that has to be done here. If those seasons are found to be compromised they simply have to be taken away from city. We're not even discussing recent seasons with these charges, they can (and I assume) will be investigated after this is done. Points, fines etc for those would perhaps make more sense given proximity - although city will obviously drag the arse out of any proceedings again

Gauranteed relegation for next season but you can keep all your ill gotten gains going back 10+ years wouldn't fly with me and would send a message to any club looking to copy city that cheating is totally worth it

I actually think stripping of titles would be the wrong action to take.

United, Chelsea, even Arsenal possibly? in the 90’s and early 00’s all bought their titles using their financial might in some capacity. But didn’t have the stringent rules in place we have too day like what City face. I think it would be hypocritical too take their titles off them but not others Clubs, who at some point didn’t exactly the same, just in a different era

I believe relegation, humongous points deductions, transfer bans etc are all exactly the way to treat them if found guilty.

 

[2 man midfield]

Would a long-term transfer ban be out of the question?

Can we ban them purchasing Michael Oliver while we’re at it?

 

[Pickle85]

I actually think stripping of titles would be the wrong action to take.

United, Chelsea, even Arsenal possibly? in the 90’s and early 00’s all bought their titles using their financial might in some capacity. But didn’t have the stringent rules in place we have too day like what City face. I think it would be hypocritical too take their titles off them but not others Clubs, who at some point didn’t exactly the same, just in a different era

I believe relegation, humongous points deductions, transfer bans etc are all exactly the way to treat them if found guilty.

Eh? The point is that they did it when it was specifically against the rules to do so. These comparisons make absolutely no sense.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

I actually think stripping of titles would be the wrong action to take.

United, Chelsea, even Arsenal possibly? in the 90’s and early 00’s all bought their titles using their financial might in some capacity. But didn’t have the stringent rules in place we have too day like what City face. I think it would be hypocritical too take their titles off them but not others Clubs, who at some point didn’t exactly the same, just in a different era

I believe relegation, humongous points deductions, transfer bans etc are all exactly the way to treat them if found guilty.

Ask Newcastle fans whether they'd be willing to break the rules for the next decade if it led to 6 PL titles and a CL with the eventual punishment being a points deduction and transfer ban. I'd imagine the majority of them would take it if it meant their titles weren't stripped. A precedent needs to be set to deter other state-owned clubs from doing whatever they like.

 

[Withnail]

I actually think stripping of titles would be the wrong action to take.

United, Chelsea, even Arsenal possibly? in the 90’s and early 00’s all bought their titles using their financial might in some capacity. But didn’t have the stringent rules in place we have too day like what City face. I think it would be hypocritical too take their titles off them but not others Clubs, who at some point didn’t exactly the same, just in a different era

I believe relegation, humongous points deductions, transfer bans etc are all exactly the way to treat them if found guilty.

It's absolutely not hypocritical because none of those teams cheated and refused to cooperate with the authorities for years on end.

As for bought titles? It's only Chelsea that that can be leveled at as Abramovich came in and basically bought 22 new players for Mourinho.

 

[TheLiverBird]

Eh? The point is that they did it when it was specifically against the rules to do so. These comparisons make absolutely no sense.

Of course it makes sense

United capitalised on there huge unmatched wealth in the 90’s and 00’s, Chelsea absolutely did on a hole new level etc

But now City have done it, let’s take their titles away? I think it would be ridiculous to do so when all they have done is capitalise on their wealth just like other clubs do, except City have done it in a era where there are rules too stop such p*ss taking.

I haven’t said City should get away with it though, I clearly stated they should have the book thrown at them via either relegation, long transfer bans or points substantial points deductions if indeed found guilty of breaking said rules

I just think stripping them of their titles for what other clubs have similarly done would be ridiculous.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Of course it makes sense

United capitalised on there huge unmatched wealth in the 90’s and 00’s, Chelsea absolutely did on a hole new level etc

But now City have done it, let’s take their titles away? I think it would be ridiculous to do so when all they have done is capitalise on their wealth just like other clubs do, except City have done it in a era where there are rules too stop such p*ss taking.

I haven’t said City should get away with it though, I clearly stated they should have the book thrown at them via either relegation, long transfer bans or points substantial points deductions if indeed found guilty of breaking said rules

I just think stripping them of their titles for what other clubs have similarly done would be ridiculous.

Yet interestingly enough, United under Sir Alex in his PL years was only the fourth biggest spenders between 92/93 and 13/14.

Yes, behind even Liverpool. "Capitalise" we did not, obviously, if that gash Liveepool era was them outspending us over two decades.

 

[Strangest Tribe]

Of course it makes sense

United capitalised on there huge unmatched wealth in the 90’s and 00’s, Chelsea absolutely did on a hole new level etc

Unmatched wealth that was obtained legitimately and NOT by cheating, these sort of posts are just ridiculous and so blinkered it’s untrue

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Of course it makes sense

United capitalised on there huge unmatched wealth in the 90’s and 00’s, Chelsea absolutely did on a hole new level etc

But now City have done it, let’s take their titles away? I think it would be ridiculous to do so when all they have done is capitalise on their wealth just like other clubs do, except City have done it in a era where there are rules too stop such p*ss taking.

I haven’t said City should get away with it though, I clearly stated they should have the book thrown at them via either relegation, long transfer bans or points substantial points deductions if indeed found guilty of breaking said rules

I just think stripping them of their titles for what other clubs have similarly done would be ridiculous.

What absolute drivel! When exactly did Utd artificially inflate sponsorships? Pay players/managers off the books? That’s what City have been doing. Also, you bang on about unmatched wealth in the 90’s and the 00’s yet we were regularly outspent by the likes of Blackburn, Newcastle and your own club Liverpool during that time. Keep peddling that bollocks though, we all know rivals like to use it as a coping mechanism for how dominant we were during that time, nothing to do with how good a team we were eh.

 

[711]

Of course it makes sense

United capitalised on there huge unmatched wealth in the 90’s and 00’s, Chelsea absolutely did on a hole new level etc

But now City have done it, let’s take their titles away? I think it would be ridiculous to do so when all they have done is capitalise on their wealth just like other clubs do, except City have done it in a era where there are rules too stop such p*ss taking.

I haven’t said City should get away with it though, I clearly stated they should have the book thrown at them via either relegation, long transfer bans or points substantial points deductions if indeed found guilty of breaking said rules

I just think stripping them of their titles for what other clubs have similarly done would be ridiculous.

You are confusing separate issues. City have not been charged with having huge unmatched wealth, they have been charged with breaking the rules.

 

[steeeb]

A more extreme example would be imagine a sport with a wages cap.

If its been found out over a large period they've got round the wage cap by paying people off the books there would be uproar in said sport - whether the owners are rich or not rules are rules.

Now imagine said sport didn't punish them properly. The next year everyone now gets paid off the books and it becomes pointless to have the rule.

The FFP rules are in essence a cap, but linked to turnover hence why the initial cheating was inflated sponsors, that then moved in to paying managers off the books - Mancini, Peps brother at Girona etc and who knows what else they've done since to circumvent the rules.


Whether anyone agrees whether we should have the rules or not, the teams all agreed to them.

 

[Pickle85]

Of course it makes sense

United capitalised on there huge unmatched wealth in the 90’s and 00’s, Chelsea absolutely did on a hole new level etc

But now City have done it, let’s take their titles away? I think it would be ridiculous to do so when all they have done is capitalise on their wealth just like other clubs do, except City have done it in a era where there are rules too stop such p*ss taking.

I haven’t said City should get away with it though, I clearly stated they should have the book thrown at them via either relegation, long transfer bans or points substantial points deductions if indeed found guilty of breaking said rules

I just think stripping them of their titles for what other clubs have similarly done would be ridiculous.

You say it in you own post - city broke the rules. Whereas clubs like united didn't because those rules didn't exist. You seem to be arguing that city shouldn't be penalized by having illegitimate titles stripped because they broke rules that...we didn't in the past?

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Of course it makes sense

United capitalised on there huge unmatched wealth in the 90’s and 00’s, Chelsea absolutely did on a hole new level etc

But now City have done it, let’s take their titles away? I think it would be ridiculous to do so when all they have done is capitalise on their wealth just like other clubs do, except City have done it in a era where there are rules too stop such p*ss taking.

I haven’t said City should get away with it though, I clearly stated they should have the book thrown at them via either relegation, long transfer bans or points substantial points deductions if indeed found guilty of breaking said rules

I just think stripping them of their titles for what other clubs have similarly done would be ridiculous.

United made the money, Chelsea got given the money, City got given the money AND did it outside the rules.

They’re clearly three different things and no one can honestly equate them… feels like you’re trolling so you can go to another site and say “look how wound up they got”. Which is a no no…

I don’t think their titles will be taken away, but they absolutely should be if found guilty, otherwise there’s no TRUE punishment or deterrent.

 

[Sunny Jim]

My take- they will be off the hook due to technicalities / small prints or they appeal to CAS.