Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[crossy1686]

I just think that by the time we get this in place (it's not going to be done in one summer transfer window and one pre-season) other teams will have adapted as well. Other teams don't stand still. We're trying to counter the teams of today when we are so far behind them, that they will have evolved again and we'll still be behind. We look so defensive and not good at it at all. Teams that play attacking football (like we should be) we continue to rip us apart. I personally would just rather us be on the attacking foot rather than trying to counter other teams.

I have no comment on Ten Hag's reign as I wasn't a fan of that or some of those signings (but some of that on upper management at the time which has put us in today's mess). I just look back over the managers we've tried and the football we are playing right now, is without a doubt (in my mind), some of the worst I've seen and it's not getting better. We are losing so many games and the games that we do win, generally come down to an individual performance or dare I say it, luck, because we certainly aren't showing signs that we deserve to win many of the games I watch.

I don't really feel like continuing this debate as a lot of the stuff both you and I have to say on the matter is conjecture. We both have no idea if this is or is not going to bear fruit in a season or two but all I do know is that results set the mood for the outlook on how things will go. We don't have the players to play attacking football or win games consistently, we saw that under Ten Hag, we're seeing it now, we'll see under Big Sam if we sack Amorim today and hit panic mode, then you'll be in here saying the same things and bemoaning the death of a football club.

We will see how this all unfolds, personally, I see enough to think things will improve drastically next season. If they don't, I'll deal with it then instead of being involved in this race to call things the worst they've ever been first.

 

[Roboc7]

Yeah agree. I thought the whole idea of appointing a director of football (do we actually have one now that Ashworth has been binned?), was that he directed the formation that the team would play, and identify the players required. If we sign players for Amorim's 3-5-2 or whatever it is, and then he gets the bullet in the autumn, it would effectively mean we have to appoint another manager who plays the same system, or rip it up and start again wasting another 2 seasons. This to me is the reason why Ashworth didn't want Amorim and why Liverpool shyed away from him after some initial interest.

We have no real idea what Ashworth did and didn’t want, he supposedly wanted Potter or Southgate but who knows what is true and what isn’t.

Fans are getting too hung up on the formation, managers change tactics and formations so you can’t have a DOF deciding it. Very few players are specialist wingbacks and most wide players are not out and out wingers so it’s very unlikely we’d end up with a squad that couldn’t change to a different formation.

What we need Wilcox and Vivell to do is recruit players with the right skill sets and physical attributes to significantly improve the technical and physical limitations we have. That would have been up to them with or without Ashworth who isn’t a recruitment expert anyway.

If our recruitment doesn’t get better no manager has a chance of succeeding for any sustained period of time.

 

[Ludens the Red]

The system he wants to play requires such a huge change in personnel, that let's be honest, we can't afford, if this doesn't work out, it'll end up being the biggest mistake and I'm honestly seeing nothing from him that suggests he can turn this around.

We cry out for a left back, we buy one, and he plays off the right. I thought he was going to be the one but THIS job, might just be a step too much for him.

This is my big concern. With every passing match it becomes very obvious.
What you’re seeing over the last 5-6 matches is a loss of confidence in the players themselves and thus a loss of confidence in the system.
I think if you’ve got a great group of well tuned players, crossing over from a 433 to 352 would be straight forward but this is a bad group so they need things simplifying. It all looks a little too complicated for them.

I see people continually saying well he’s not had training sessions. Well what exactly are match days? They should be learning and improving from match to match in terms of understanding the system and what Amorim wants but they’re literally getting worse.

I think Amorim would do a fantastic job at a club with quick, athletic, intelligent players. This is not at man united and it won’t be with the financial situation and in agreement it’s hard to see how this turns round without significant investment.
These players would be better suited to basic counter football. I think he’s going to have to accept that if he wants to survive.

 

[Matt851]

It's got nothing to do with formations. How does the system suddenly start working when we go a goal down? It's the mentally and physically weakest United team in ages. I'll never get over Ten Hag building a team without regard to physical demands of the league and the mentality needed to play at Old Trafford. We have forwards who can't create separation in the final third or love to go missing. We're actually lauding performances where they don't even get on the end of one threatening opportunity or try a shot. Then Yoro, Onana and Bayindir have given away momentum sealing goals in the midst of comebacks. Our defenders are prone to lapses, can barely read interceptions and can be as unpolished as they come.

We still weren't great when we went a goal down just better than god awful. We also brought garnacho on so we had more than one player that could create something. We should have jad him on at the start. We have repeatedly seen the same type of performance against lower league teams where we struggle to progress tha ball with full backs as wing backs and three centre backs particularly with dalot on the left. Rather than trying to correct this amorim just persisted with the same team.

This just compounds the fact this system doesn't really suit half the team.

You make it sound like the quality of players is the only thing that matters but in that case what is the point of the coach, we might as well just crowd source the team

 

[trevor newnham]

I like Toshey's post. Reasonable, well argued. I just hope he is right ! But when I see us buying a good left back only to play him at right back and then playing a decent right back at left back ( and it wasn't that long ago that Dalot was one of our better players - is it 'cos I's Portuguese? , playing Mainoo as a false 9...all these decisions just make me wonder. Everyone on here wanted Amorim a while ago - suddenly he's shite. More short termism? I want to believe in him. Let's see what happens in the summer.

 

[GaryLifo]

I actually don't believe the "complete overhaul" thing anymore.
We need a good striker for sure and another creative midfielder. But nothing more than 2-3 players in the summer.

The problem that coaches and players have been talking about for 10 years is the CULTURE of the club.
Manchester United lost the identity and nobody knows what's expected and where the club is going.

First we got Moyes, who failed to add any freshness to an aging squad, filled with average players and carried by 5-6 world class players who were no longer in their prime.
He couldn't even find a way to utilise his precious Fellaini. The job confused him.

Then we got LVG - the only coach who actually created and held on to his own style. He knew how he wanted his team to play and he insisted on it. We did a massive blunder with Di Maria signing. And also Depay was a bit of a failure. But he definitely set up the foundation of something sustainable - promoting young academy players all the time, implementing a defined style. He was booted because it wasn't exciting enough. Personally I think it was a mistake. Or at least fire him and get someone who has similar style and can improve on it.

Then we get Jose, who throws everything LVG was building for 2 years in the trash. Our culture went to "toxic". Jose does the same thing everywhere he goes - he needs a world class striker (Zlatan, Lukaku?!) as a target man, and a great playmaker (Pogba?!). Then the team shithouses it's way to success. It's constant fight in every game, constant moaning. Players get thrown under the bus. Again a massive transfer blunder with Alexis.

Then we get Ole, who sets us up to be "the best counterattacking team in the world". We build a team that sits back and uses Bruno's ability to play long through balls to pacy players and Pogba's ability to pop with a goal outside the box. Massive transfer blunder once again - gotta say it's Ronaldo. And it's just because we already had Cavani, who had found his legs and place in the team. Ole was literally Arteta - sure, the team looks like performing sometimes, but never looks like winning anything.

After Ole, ETH comes in. The word "rebuild" starts to pop. People expect "his style" to be shown. He tries to play the ball out from the back with short passes and gets beaten badly in his first two games. So he immediately gives up and goes to modified Ole ball - the thing players are comfortable with and have been for years.
Then he goes for double number 10 and solo DM - a setup that Pep was trying in the beginning and he actually abandoned after I think Monaco ran freely through City in the CL. (at that time there was doubt if Pep can even win anything with City).
It's completely chaotic and the team thrives when games go batshit crazy with the ball flying around and people clashing into eachother, 1/4 final against Liverpool style.


Now, read everything above carefully. This is what Ruben Amorim inherited. A complete and utter mess, no culture, no style whatsoever. So now he has to create a culture, create a style and insist on his phylosophy.
And he has been doing just that. Players are slowly responding and I'm absolutely convinced that in september we'll be watching a completely new and exciting Manchester United.
A "short fix" is not sustainable. No point to fight to get 4-5 places higher in the league, if it requires to go back to the same old thing that clearly wasn't working.
You HAVE TO look at the bigger picture. You HAVE TO understand that we are getting set up for a future where we dominate games, have defined style and culture.
Be patient, enjoy the positive signs in our players and general play.
The seeds are being sown, the harvest will come soon enough!

Good post, well argued.

 

[TMDaines]

I like to call things as I see them. This guy has been very poor so far in my eyes. Has us set up terribly every game, half of our players in sub-optimised positions and no semblance of a unit. I understand the working theory of him getting his methods across, so of course - we have to wait and see in the long run and I am happy to do that. But blind denial serves nobody, we look terrible, and looked far better this season even before he was appointed in my eyes. He completely neuters us every game by basically playing Dalot at left wing, and we excused him for not having a natural fit - yet he signs one and immediately proceeds to make things difficult for himself by playing him on the right.

I appreciate that he is a coach and I am not, but that is a lot more relevant when his different ideas to mine are vindicated by appearing to make sense on the pitch, which they don’t. Feck knows what he’s trying to achieve with Dalot in this position, but it’s never worked once, except maybe against an awful Trent Alexander-Arnold. Now it’s compounded with Mainoo upfront, Bruno in central midfield.

He needs to realise that it’s 2025, not 2026. He is not managing in next season yet, he’s managing next weekend. I worry that we may do irreparable damage by the time we make it to this panacea of the summer window. The squad and mood at the club may be completely broken with shattered confidence if they simply lose games most weeks for months.

I will close by saying that of course, this could suddenly improve dramatically (we probably can’t get much worse tbh), by we’re absolutely taking a number of steps backwards in the hope of going forward. And we weren’t even very high to begin with. We’ve had some decent performances in tough away games which even terrible teams have been able to do for years and years in football when you stay organised and contain a better opponent. If this level of performance continues to the end of the season I will be very worried. What I would have hoped to see when Amorim came in was some cohesion that clearly highlights a lack of players, which can then be addressed in the summer. That’s what I want in the next few months, irrespective of the results. I don’t care about those right now.

Pretty much this. It is torture watching us right now, and a lot of the evident issues are under the manager’s accountability. Hopefully there is enough rope left in this season for either Amorim to hang himself, or for him to turn it around and make a genuine case for big investment. The worst case scenario is this continuing and us sleepwalking into next season under him, as he will inevitably go before Christmas, if so.

We either need that big improvement, or we re-roll again. There’s no proof-of-concept here worth investing in right now.

 

[kouroux]

That's a bit fast, can you elaborate on what are your deal(faith) breakers?

This fecking formation for starters. It's giving me allergies. Dalot and Bruno being automatic starters no matter what

Its just ETH-PTSD.

Five years ago, we would not have lost faith in a new manager within 2-3 months. We would have been patient.

But our emotions are frayed after so many false peaks/hopes.


Best, we just don't invest very much in what's left of this season. And just look forward to next season, assuming the big re-build happens over the summer.

I have mentally checked out already. This is the first season in my life when I have willingly missed out on many games because the time wasted wasn't worth it

I mean, that's an extreme and emotional view point to be honest. I'm not saying Amorim will be a success but writing someone off at this point is pretty silly, especially because you don't like a tactic or whatever the justification is. I'm not sure what the expectation is from people anymore, I just know that we've been on this path to shitness ever since Ten Hag got to spend a billion quid and now there isn't an overnight fix. It's going to be tough for the rest of the season but Amorim seems to know what he wants and he knows how to change a game, which is something none of our previous managers have been capable of.

He also said last night that this isn't what he wants, and its about surviving until he is able to implement his ideas. The second half yesterday was more inline with the way he wants to play, but ultimately training and performances pick the teams. You can't reward people who don't perform, otherwise we're just right back in the same position as Ten Hag with Rashford etc.

It's not emotional because I have had time to think about it and last night was clear to me. I could obviously be wrong and change my tune in a few weeks/months.
At least unlike ETH, he is likeable

I find that very hard to believe having watched his sporting side attack with dynamic pace, always looking forwards and committing players into attacking areas

I have no idea, just reporting what I watched from youtube. It could be misinterpreted (it better be tbh).

 

[GaryLifo]

I like Toshey's post. Reasonable, well argued. I just hope he is right ! But when I see us buying a good left back only to play him at right back and then playing a decent right back at left back ( and it wasn't that long ago that Dalot was one of our better players - is it 'cos I's Portuguese? , playing Mainoo as a false 9...all these decisions just make me wonder. Everyone on here wanted Amorim a while ago - suddenly he's shite. More short permission? I want to believe in him. Let's see what happens in the summer.

I thought Dorgu did pretty well on the right. Obviously I think we need him on the left more than the right.

Dorgu looked quick, strong and like he's got an engine. It's definitely moving the profile in the right direction.

I also really liked Yoro on the left of the 3 in the last 30 minutes. He was marauding up the pitch and really helping us win the ball back high up.

 

[Oldyella]

This is my big concern. With every passing match it becomes very obvious.
What you’re seeing over the last 5-6 matches is a loss of confidence in the players themselves and thus a loss of confidence in the system.
I think if you’ve got a great group of well tuned players, crossing over from a 433 to 352 would be straight forward but this is a bad group so they need things simplifying. It all looks a little too complicated for them.

I see people continually saying well he’s not had training sessions. Well what exactly are match days? They should be learning and improving from match to match in terms of understanding the system and what Amorim wants but they’re literally getting worse.

I think Amorim would do a fantastic job at a club with quick, athletic, intelligent players. This is not at man united and it won’t be with the financial situation and in agreement it’s hard to see how this turns round without significant investment.
These players would be better suited to basic counter football. I think he’s going to have to accept that if he wants to survive.

This is crazy. So we have a coach who will succeed with good players, we dont have them so he needs to change how his team plays rather than try and drag up the level of our squad? He said it wouldnt be quick, why are people so surprised that it hasnt been quick?

People want change, but dont want to face time spent changing.

 

[wolvored]

This is my big concern. With every passing match it becomes very obvious.
What you’re seeing over the last 5-6 matches is a loss of confidence in the players themselves and thus a loss of confidence in the system.
I think if you’ve got a great group of well tuned players, crossing over from a 433 to 352 would be straight forward but this is a bad group so they need things simplifying. It all looks a little too complicated for them.

I see people continually saying well he’s not had training sessions. Well what exactly are match days? They should be learning and improving from match to match in terms of understanding the system and what Amorim wants but they’re literally getting worse.

I think Amorim would do a fantastic job at a club with quick, athletic, intelligent players. This is not at man united and it won’t be with the financial situation and in agreement it’s hard to see how this turns round without significant investment.
These players would be better suited to basic counter football. I think he’s going to have to accept that if he wants to survive.

The thing is we played counter attack with other managers and better strikers and still we’re nowhere near title winners, which is the ultimate aim. Amorim was bought in to try different way to achieve this. It’s obvious this lot haven’t a brain cell between them, or it’s taking a long time for the penny to drop. They have been coddled too long and now they have a no nonsense manager in, they are struggling much worse. Even the basics like running, we are still way behind the majority of clubs, because it’s too hard after years of having it easy. Rangnick was sacked for what Amorim is calling out now. The only difference is the board has changed and listening. FFP/PSC is slowing the change.

 

[Acquire Me]

I actually don't believe the "complete overhaul" thing anymore.
We need a good striker for sure and another creative midfielder. But nothing more than 2-3 players in the summer.

The problem that coaches and players have been talking about for 10 years is the CULTURE of the club.
Manchester United lost the identity and nobody knows what's expected and where the club is going.

First we got Moyes, who failed to add any freshness to an aging squad, filled with average players and carried by 5-6 world class players who were no longer in their prime.
He couldn't even find a way to utilise his precious Fellaini. The job confused him.

Then we got LVG - the only coach who actually created and held on to his own style. He knew how he wanted his team to play and he insisted on it. We did a massive blunder with Di Maria signing. And also Depay was a bit of a failure. But he definitely set up the foundation of something sustainable - promoting young academy players all the time, implementing a defined style. He was booted because it wasn't exciting enough. Personally I think it was a mistake. Or at least fire him and get someone who has similar style and can improve on it.

Then we get Jose, who throws everything LVG was building for 2 years in the trash. Our culture went to "toxic". Jose does the same thing everywhere he goes - he needs a world class striker (Zlatan, Lukaku?!) as a target man, and a great playmaker (Pogba?!). Then the team shithouses it's way to success. It's constant fight in every game, constant moaning. Players get thrown under the bus. Again a massive transfer blunder with Alexis.

Then we get Ole, who sets us up to be "the best counterattacking team in the world". We build a team that sits back and uses Bruno's ability to play long through balls to pacy players and Pogba's ability to pop with a goal outside the box. Massive transfer blunder once again - gotta say it's Ronaldo. And it's just because we already had Cavani, who had found his legs and place in the team. Ole was literally Arteta - sure, the team looks like performing sometimes, but never looks like winning anything.

After Ole, ETH comes in. The word "rebuild" starts to pop. People expect "his style" to be shown. He tries to play the ball out from the back with short passes and gets beaten badly in his first two games. So he immediately gives up and goes to modified Ole ball - the thing players are comfortable with and have been for years.
Then he goes for double number 10 and solo DM - a setup that Pep was trying in the beginning and he actually abandoned after I think Monaco ran freely through City in the CL. (at that time there was doubt if Pep can even win anything with City).
It's completely chaotic and the team thrives when games go batshit crazy with the ball flying around and people clashing into eachother, 1/4 final against Liverpool style.


Now, read everything above carefully. This is what Ruben Amorim inherited. A complete and utter mess, no culture, no style whatsoever. So now he has to create a culture, create a style and insist on his phylosophy.
And he has been doing just that. Players are slowly responding and I'm absolutely convinced that in september we'll be watching a completely new and exciting Manchester United.
A "short fix" is not sustainable. No point to fight to get 4-5 places higher in the league, if it requires to go back to the same old thing that clearly wasn't working.
You HAVE TO look at the bigger picture. You HAVE TO understand that we are getting set up for a future where we dominate games, have defined style and culture.
Be patient, enjoy the positive signs in our players and general play.
The seeds are being sown, the harvest will come soon enough!

Should pin this to the thread.

I get that this season is somewhat of a nightmare. I don’t enjoy watching us when we seem to not got a fecking clue. But we can’t change old habits without going through pain and suffering.

In the grand scheme of things it’s not a long time to summer and this season will be over. In the meantime I will enjoy every match that we play better. Garnacho seems to be finding his form under Amorim and the new system. That’s cool. Dorgu had a very good debut. It’s not just darkness even though this season will not exactly be remembered as one of the greatest ever

I expect us to do some business in the summer and that will make a difference. Even one new player can make a difference.

Not saying everyone should just take a long nap and forgetting all about this season, but to be honest, it’s not going to happen this season and it might be better to enjoy the good and stay calm about the bad.

 

[Escobar]

I thought Dorgu did pretty well on the right. Obviously I think we need him on the left more than the right.

Dorgu looked quick, strong and like he's got an engine. It's definitely moving the profile in the right direction.

I also really liked Yoro on the left of the 3 in the last 30 minutes. He was marauding up the pitch and really helping us win the ball back high up.

He needs to play the players in their best position. Otherwise it is working even less

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

It's really weird when you put it like that because it still feels like we're on a dreadful run of form.

Late winners against terrible sides in Southampton, Leicester and Rangers in poor performances. Late deflected win against Fulham in what was a dreadful performance. A penalty shootout win. Routine win FCSB in what might be our only acceptable performances. Two dreadful defeats.

It's also because the game against Arsenal was not technically a win. It was a draw. So it is 5 wins in 8. Maybe 5.5 wins.

 

[JPRouve]

This is crazy. So we have a coach who will succeed with good players, we dont have them so he needs to change how his team plays rather than try and drag up the level of our squad? He said it wouldnt be quick, why are people so surprised that it hasnt been quick?

People want change, but dont want to face time spent changing.

Every single manager is supposed to try and drag up the level of his squad and supposedly top managers are even more supposed to do it. Otherwise we are just talking about glorified personal shoppers.

 

[Acquire Me]

He needs to play the players in their best position. Otherwise it is working even less

It’s a bit unclear what his best position is. Based on his time with Lecce it seems he spent as much on the right as the left. I read in the Athletic that some see similarities in him and Saka. Saka started out as left back, but is now a right side winger. So in the Athletics own words, it’s complicated.

Very good debut for him last night. I want to see more from him on the right to be honest. I wouldn’t mind to see him on the left as well. We could possibly try Amad right and Dorgu left. Unsure if that would harm us defensively, but it’s an interesting idea.

 

[JPRouve]

It’s a bit unclear what his best position is. Based on his time with Lecce it seems he spent as much on the right as the left. I read in the Athletic that some see similarities in him and Saka. Saka started out as left back, but is now a right side winger. So in the Athletics own words, it’s complicated.

Very good debut for him last night. I want to see more from him on the right to be honest. I wouldn’t mind to see him on the left as well. We could possibly try Amad right and Dorgu left. Unsure if that would harm us defensively, but it’s an interesting idea.

He is 20, his best position is likely not known yet. People are making grandiose statements for no good reason when it comes to Dorgu. We signed a project that may fit several roles as a wingback on either sides or even as one of the inside forwards.

 

[Acquire Me]

Every single manager is supposed to try and draf up the level of his squad and supposedly top managers are even more supposed to do it. Otherwise we are just talking about glorified personal shoppers.

Agree, but @Oldyella are not wrong about the time aspect. Cultural reboot, new system, players leaving, players joining, etc, it’s not going to be a quick fix.

 

[Godfather]

Should pin this to the thread.

I get that this season is somewhat of a nightmare. I don’t enjoy watching us when we seem to not got a fecking clue. But we can’t change old habits without going through pain and suffering.

In the grand scheme of things it’s not a long time to summer and this season will be over. In the meantime I will enjoy every match that we play better. Garnacho seems to be finding his form under Amorim and the new system. That’s cool. Dorgu had a very good debut. It’s not just darkness even though this season will not exactly be remembered as one of the greatest ever

I expect us to do some business in the summer and that will make a difference. Even one new player can make a difference.

Not saying everyone should just take a long nap and forgetting all about this season, but to be honest, it’s not going to happen this season and it might be better to enjoy the good and stay calm about the bad.

One player isn't going to change much. We need at least three, all top class. A striker, a CM and a left side number 10.
Then we should also look into a better keeper.

 

[Cassidy]

Dorgu's natural position is in the left. Dalot's natural position is in the right. Dalot is half decent on the right but terrible on the left. He's not going to cut in and cause havoc in the center (has that ever happened?) and neither can he make overlapping runs and cross with his left. In an already boring 3-4-3 formation, wing backs making overlapping runs, getting into space and providing supply inside the box is critical. Instead this role has been taken up by our forwards (Garnacho and Amad) who should the receivers of this supply and are a better goal scoring threat. Hojlund's isolated in this with central midfielders often arriving too late and not at all. You can see how many of Garnacho's good crosses went to the drain because there wasn't a body in the place he crossed. We improved yesterday in the 2nd after after Dorgu came off because Amad is far more comfortable going in/out as compared to Dorgu/Dalot but that's not his natural position again.

Frankly, all this hype on 3-4-3 is reminiscent of Rangnick's magical 4-2-2-2 formation. We seem to be doing a lot with the press (conferences) and little with actual pressing. All gas and no result so far. I just hope we're not paying top dollars for an intern to learn on the job.

I don’t know what his natural position is. I can only say where he has played for his previous club

 

[PlasticRed]

Taxi for Amorim!

Proper shitshow. Buying Dorgu then playing him RWB. The results are awful, the games are dreadful. Literally any manager could be doing better. Its the worst Ive seen since the 80s.

Had enough, Amorim out.

 

[reelworld]

One player isn't going to change much. We need at least three, all top class. A striker, a CM and a left side number 10.
Then we should also look into a better keeper.

A top class striker and an athletic central midfielder who can dictate the tempo should be first priority.

 

[Acquire Me]

One player isn't going to change much. We need at least three, all top class. A striker, a CM and a left side number 10.
Then we should also look into a better keeper.

I didn’t say that we should look to only get one. I said one player can make a difference. Even a huge difference. Look at Amad. Without him the last couple of months we would be even worse.

 

[Eugenius]

Its just ETH-PTSD.

Five years ago, we would not have lost faith in a new manager within 2-3 months. We would have been patient.

But our emotions are frayed after so many false peaks/hopes.


Best, we just don't invest very much in what's left of this season. And just look forward to next season, assuming the big re-build happens over the summer.

It's not PTSD, it's literally the results. Every new manager had a bounce, Amorim is the only one going backwards.

 

[redNATION]

Reality is we don’t have the players to play the way he wants. Thats fine if the leadership team are prepared to back him fully and give him the resources to build the team he needs. This needs patience if we are to move away from the basic counter attack football that our previous managers have drilled into the team.

I suspect they’ll panic in the summer if we don’t get champions league football through the Europa League and sack him. Time will tell I guess, because fans are also not patient especially if Liverpool will match our 20 titles and look like getting 21 next season.

 

[P-Nut]

I'm really not understanding the fan base at the moment.

I'm seeing people calling for Amorims head who have been slating the squad for years now.

He's walked in mid season, after stating that he wanted to start with a preseason because his ideas would take us backwards first before moving forward. He's then had the chaotic Christmas schedule and no training time, lost his most prolific goal scorer due to attitude issues that we all wanted stamped out at the club. Add to that his other attacking options are all still in the infancy of their career (Garnacho, Amad, Hojlund, Zirkzee)

At what point would fans like a rebuild to be done? Yes he could play 4231 and his discipline and communication would likely get us more solid and winning more regularly, but what's the point? In the summer he'd rip it all back up and go back to this with the players having less time to learn it than if we started from the second he came in.

The season is done, it may be hard to accept, but we're in no position to be winning things at the moment. The aim of the season is to see who does and doesn't fit into Amorims system. Build players knowledge and comfortability to the system, and here's the kicker, it doesn't even mean we'll be amongst the top 4 next season. But what we should see is progress, a defined system and a way of playing. But at the moment, just strap in for the ride because it's not going to get better quickly.

 

[GreatDane]

I actually don't believe the "complete overhaul" thing anymore.
We need a good striker for sure and another creative midfielder. But nothing more than 2-3 players in the summer.

The problem that coaches and players have been talking about for 10 years is the CULTURE of the club.
Manchester United lost the identity and nobody knows what's expected and where the club is going.

First we got Moyes, who failed to add any freshness to an aging squad, filled with average players and carried by 5-6 world class players who were no longer in their prime.
He couldn't even find a way to utilise his precious Fellaini. The job confused him.

Then we got LVG - the only coach who actually created and held on to his own style. He knew how he wanted his team to play and he insisted on it. We did a massive blunder with Di Maria signing. And also Depay was a bit of a failure. But he definitely set up the foundation of something sustainable - promoting young academy players all the time, implementing a defined style. He was booted because it wasn't exciting enough. Personally I think it was a mistake. Or at least fire him and get someone who has similar style and can improve on it.

Then we get Jose, who throws everything LVG was building for 2 years in the trash. Our culture went to "toxic". Jose does the same thing everywhere he goes - he needs a world class striker (Zlatan, Lukaku?!) as a target man, and a great playmaker (Pogba?!). Then the team shithouses it's way to success. It's constant fight in every game, constant moaning. Players get thrown under the bus. Again a massive transfer blunder with Alexis.

Then we get Ole, who sets us up to be "the best counterattacking team in the world". We build a team that sits back and uses Bruno's ability to play long through balls to pacy players and Pogba's ability to pop with a goal outside the box. Massive transfer blunder once again - gotta say it's Ronaldo. And it's just because we already had Cavani, who had found his legs and place in the team. Ole was literally Arteta - sure, the team looks like performing sometimes, but never looks like winning anything.

After Ole, ETH comes in. The word "rebuild" starts to pop. People expect "his style" to be shown. He tries to play the ball out from the back with short passes and gets beaten badly in his first two games. So he immediately gives up and goes to modified Ole ball - the thing players are comfortable with and have been for years.
Then he goes for double number 10 and solo DM - a setup that Pep was trying in the beginning and he actually abandoned after I think Monaco ran freely through City in the CL. (at that time there was doubt if Pep can even win anything with City).
It's completely chaotic and the team thrives when games go batshit crazy with the ball flying around and people clashing into eachother, 1/4 final against Liverpool style.


Now, read everything above carefully. This is what Ruben Amorim inherited. A complete and utter mess, no culture, no style whatsoever. So now he has to create a culture, create a style and insist on his phylosophy.
And he has been doing just that. Players are slowly responding and I'm absolutely convinced that in september we'll be watching a completely new and exciting Manchester United.
A "short fix" is not sustainable. No point to fight to get 4-5 places higher in the league, if it requires to go back to the same old thing that clearly wasn't working.
You HAVE TO look at the bigger picture. You HAVE TO understand that we are getting set up for a future where we dominate games, have defined style and culture.
Be patient, enjoy the positive signs in our players and general play.
The seeds are being sown, the harvest will come soon enough!

Good post, I agree.
All these 'change the manager, change the system' posts achieve nothing.
We suffer this season so we dont suffer again next season.

 

[Ayoba]

I guess if we're looking for positives, the 2nd half performance was decent and somewhat exciting. I hope he realises, especially at OT, that we need more attacking players on the pitch. If we;'re going to suffer as he says, we might as well have some attacking football.

He's also got quite the sour puss face, always el miserable, even after the liverpool game. I genuinly think he needs a holiday and take a few days away in a nice sunny place to recharge his batteries.

 

[hellhunter]

Good post, I agree.
All these 'change the manager, change the system' posts achieve nothing.
We suffer this season so we dont suffer again next season.

Wishful thinking at best

 

[JPRouve]

Agree, but @Oldyella are not wrong about the time aspect. Cultural reboot, new system, players leaving, players joining, etc, it’s not going to be a quick fix.

I agree with the idea that it's not going to be a quick fix but it shouldn't be confused with the idea that a manager isn't supposed to actually improve things in less than ideal contexts. In fact the ability to improve things in less a than ideal context is the prerequisite that justifies and buys time. Purchasing players and hiding behind a lack of quality to justify lack of progress is the ultimate reach for a quick fix, if you are not looking for a quick fix then coaching and players development is key.

 

[pocco]

Nah mate.

Probability is that he’s right.

Reality is we don’t have the players to play the way he wants. Thats fine if the leadership team are prepared to back him fully and give him the resources to build the team he needs. This needs patience if we are to move away from the basic counter attack football that our previous managers have drilled into the team.

I suspect they’ll panic in the summer if we don’t get champions league football through the Europa League and sack him. Time will tell I guess, because fans are also not patient especially if Liverpool will match our 20 titles and look like getting 21 next season.

The worst thing the fans and the club can do is worry about Liverpool right now. If we try to look for short term fixes then we’ll be in a worse position. What we need to do is take a leaf out of their book and build over time.

 

[PlasticRed]

Theres no extra points for loyalty. Ask Rhodri Giggs.

If it smells bad and looks bad. It is bad. Get him out, and get a manager that plays a more standard formation so we dont have to sell most of the squad and replace with new signings.

the fans are in delusion mode. This is dreadful.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

I am sorry but I just don't see how it will work out for Amorim at Man Utd:

- 3 months in and we are the same or worse than we were with ETH so 0 progress in terms of results and the way we play
- How can players "buy in" his ideas when we play absolutely nothing? How can the board give him credit?
- Player changes are not realistic, we will never change 20 players under Amorim, it will take 5 years to do that
- Next summer will probably bring 3-4 players in at max, which I don't think will make a huge difference, if we are a 13th league table team now, next season we will be 8th? 9th? Is that acceptable? And that's probably the best case scenario. We may be even worse than now, who knows
- Tactically, we are all over the place, players out of position, they don't know what to do and in 3 months time few showed that can adapt to the "new" system
- When you get constantly dominated by weaker teams, with worse players, you start to wonder what's it all for?
- In attack we are unwatchable, we cannot string 3 passes together or create a decent chance.
- The same speech about we need time, we will get better, just you wait is the same that David Moyes had when things started to look bad for him.

 

[Eugenius]

I'm really not understanding the fan base at the moment.

I'm seeing people calling for Amorims head who have been slating the squad for years now.

He's walked in mid season, after stating that he wanted to start with a preseason because his ideas would take us backwards first before moving forward. He's then had the chaotic Christmas schedule and no training time, lost his most prolific goal scorer due to attitude issues that we all wanted stamped out at the club. Add to that his other attacking options are all still in the infancy of their career (Garnacho, Amad, Hojlund, Zirkzee)

At what point would fans like a rebuild to be done? Yes he could play 4231 and his discipline and communication would likely get us more solid and winning more regularly, but what's the point? In the summer he'd rip it all back up and go back to this with the players having less time to learn it than if we started from the second he came in.

The season is done, it may be hard to accept, but we're in no position to be winning things at the moment. The aim of the season is to see who does and doesn't fit into Amorims system. Build players knowledge and comfortability to the system, and here's the kicker, it doesn't even mean we'll be amongst the top 4 next season. But what we should see is progress, a defined system and a way of playing. But at the moment, just strap in for the ride because it's not going to get better quickly.

The squad cannot be that crap otherwise we would have lauded EtH for finishing 8th last season. And we clearly have a better squad than Leicester yet again we struggled.

No one would be concerned if the results were bad but performances slowly improving and some "idea" was coming out. Right now I have no idea what Amorim wants to do beyond playing 343. Whether he wants defenders at WB, who to invert, who to play at #10. He didn't seem to fancy Garnacho yesterday but the only thing that worked yesterday was to give him the ball.

If you can explain Amorim ball, say what pattern of play you see, style you see then I'd be really shocked. Hard to have confidence that if he back him with tailored players he would start getting a tune out.

 

[PlasticRed]

Amorim only has himself to blame for being so inflexible. He has essentially sacked himself by not finding an intermediary set of tactics to use to get us through the transition. Its basic management to get the most out of what you have in the short term.

Chasing Dorgu all month, then playing him out of position and subing him at half time? Just feck off pal.

 

[Redstain]

I like to call things as I see them. This guy has been very poor so far in my eyes. Has us set up terribly every game, half of our players in sub-optimised positions and no semblance of a unit. I understand the working theory of him getting his methods across, so of course - we have to wait and see in the long run and I am happy to do that. But blind denial serves nobody, we look terrible, and looked far better this season even before he was appointed in my eyes. He completely neuters us every game by basically playing Dalot at left wing, and we excused him for not having a natural fit - yet he signs one and immediately proceeds to make things difficult for himself by playing him on the right.

I appreciate that he is a coach and I am not, but that is a lot more relevant when his different ideas to mine are vindicated by appearing to make sense on the pitch, which they don’t. Feck knows what he’s trying to achieve with Dalot in this position, but it’s never worked once, except maybe against an awful Trent Alexander-Arnold. Now it’s compounded with Mainoo upfront, Bruno in central midfield.

He needs to realise that it’s 2025, not 2026. He is not managing in next season yet, he’s managing next weekend. I worry that we may do irreparable damage by the time we make it to this panacea of the summer window. The squad and mood at the club may be completely broken with shattered confidence if they simply lose games most weeks for months.

I will close by saying that of course, this could suddenly improve dramatically (we probably can’t get much worse tbh), by we’re absolutely taking a number of steps backwards in the hope of going forward. And we weren’t even very high to begin with. We’ve had some decent performances in tough away games which even terrible teams have been able to do for years and years in football when you stay organised and contain a better opponent. If this level of performance continues to the end of the season I will be very worried. What I would have hoped to see when Amorim came in was some cohesion that clearly highlights a lack of players, which can then be addressed in the summer. That’s what I want in the next few months, irrespective of the results. I don’t care about those right now.

Agreed the improvement Amorim will need the team to make between this season and the following campaign is becoming far too wide of a gap that it's borderline unrealistic to anticipate drastic improvement even with a summer window.

From a coaching perspective the team is awful at progressing the ball beyond the back five / three into midfield. A managers philosophy heavily influences this but when there's only two midfielders to get the ball on the half turn, they are essentially lost at sea when the opposition begin the first initiation of the press. This happens game after game after game.

Lost count how many times the ball is being recycled around the back 5 with no option to pass in-between the lines. This issue, is in isolation to the lack of clinical players in attacking positions but spending so much of the game in this cycle hampers the frequency of how consistent the attack is.

It's not the system but the manager's ideology in how the system is adopted.

Observed Leverkusen's few games and in many instances Alonso has them compact when in possession so the midfield and 10's are typically within short distances of one another. This means the defence can easily progress the ball beyond the teams own half and they are dangerous when in the attack because they can overload the opposition from a numbers perspective.

However, even when you assess Sporting, much of the threat came from the intuition of the three most advanced players. That's why Amorim by his own admission stated that attacking players don't need to be coached in positions further forward. I believe that to be true but as a coach you have to create an environment with attacking rotations, spaces and shape for forward players to be competent in.

Overall we need to see more improvement in how the team plays, there should be tell tale signs with newer players amplifying those dynamics.

 

[Escobar]

It’s a bit unclear what his best position is. Based on his time with Lecce it seems he spent as much on the right as the left. I read in the Athletic that some see similarities in him and Saka. Saka started out as left back, but is now a right side winger. So in the Athletics own words, it’s complicated.

Very good debut for him last night. I want to see more from him on the right to be honest. I wouldn’t mind to see him on the left as well. We could possibly try Amad right and Dorgu left. Unsure if that would harm us defensively, but it’s an interesting idea.

Not just Dorgu. Maz and Yoro, Bruno, Dalot, Mainoo

 

[Leftback99]

Theres no extra points for loyalty. Ask Rhodri Giggs.

If it smells bad and looks bad. It is bad. Get him out, and get a manager that plays a more standard formation so we dont have to sell most of the squad and replace with new signings.

the fans are in delusion mode. This is dreadful.

Who do we need to sell because we aren't playing a 'standard' formation?

The squad is not fit for any purpose thanks to Ten Hag.

 

[Judas]

Theres no extra points for loyalty. Ask Rhodri Giggs.

If it smells bad and looks bad. It is bad. Get him out, and get a manager that plays a more standard formation so we dont have to sell most of the squad and replace with new signings.

the fans are in delusion mode. This is dreadful.

Imagine not wanting to sell most of this useless squad.

 

[CM]

He needs to play the players in their best position. Otherwise it is working even less

I think this is my biggest question mark over Amorim so far. The Dorgu thing from last night is attracting a lot of attention, and while I do agree that he'd look better on the left, there are a few players across the board who look a bit of an awkward fit in some of the positions he's been playing them.

I'm not sure where Fernandes stands as an 8 or a 10 - as an 8 he feels a bit too withdrawn and not close enough to goal, but Amorim's 10s are quasi-wingers and that position doesn't feel particularly suitable for him either. He's landed on using Mainoo as a 10, again, I'm not convinced he's particularly well suited. The inverted wing backs feel a bit strange, the execution was terrible in the first half yesterday and definitely inhibited our play.

Garnacho has started to find his feet but he definitely required an adjustment period. I just hope other players start following suit because even some of the most talented players Amorim inherited have been struggling to get going.