[MUEricTheKing]

When he signed some media compared him with Haaland. They ONLY have 2 things in common, the H in the beginning and the nd in the end.

70 Millions ladies and gents.

 

[marcus agrippa]

Stats stats stats. Use your eyes. Fed up of this lazy, AI approach to football. We’re not stupid, everyone knows what a promising young footballer looks like. There was no campaign for Ronaldo to be sold in 2004 because he ‘only got 5 goals in 4738382 mins’. Rooney didn’t score his career best in his first couple of seasons. All we need is moments that demonstrate why a player is worth the wait, and Rooney and Ronaldo had plenty of those (many of which did not result in G/A. Just simply exhibitions of talent).

People would have far more patience, optimism, faith, hope or whatever with Hojlund if he simply looked like a good footballer. The false, lazy and simplistic narrative is that people have simply given up on him because he hasn’t scored 20 goals. The lazy and simplistic response to that would be to say ‘neither did Isak at 22’. The difference between Isak and Hojlund this season is a lot more than 15 league goals. It’s an enormous difference in ability to play football. Last night, Isak didn’t score a goal, yet won MOTM against one of the best teams in the country.

There’s a reason why every top club in the PL was chasing Tel in January, despite him not having scored 20 in a season. Not every young forward without impressive numbers is the same. Similarly, Hojlund scoring 17 goals last season was not the same as Martial scoring 17 goals in his first season. Hojlund doesn’t have top level ability, and frankly, would need to score an incredible amount of goals to justify his place at a club like this, because he obviously doesn’t have the ability of other supremely talented footballers to influence games at the highest level in other ways. There are zero statistics that formed the basis of excitement around Kobbie Mainoo when he broke through last summer, and zero statistics that would justify the price tag we would put on him on the market. Just watch the game and you will see the potential. McTominay recorded better numbers than Mainoo last season from midfield, yet it was obvious who the club would prefer to sell.

The players you listed had no business at s club like Manchester United at those ages, and they were not there. The only 20 year old strikers who should be signed for clubs like ours are those who have the obvious talent to be amongst the best strikers in the world, regardless of their numbers in the present. A club would spend 60m on a 17 year old with only one goal to his name if they thought he was special. This has very little to do with stats. We should not be signing 20 year old strikers with the talent of Hojlund. Not for 70m and not even for the 40m that everyone says is his true value. You simply don’t sign an undeveloped 20 year old striker unless he has world-class potential. Otherwise, you buy a young player who isn’t ready, in the hope that several hundred games later, he becomes what exactly? ‘Good?’ I would sign Martial at 19 10 times over for big money again. It made obvious sense. Hojlund was no young Martial.

Anyone attacking those for questioning Hojlund can only be defending him because he plays for Manchester United. There is no way that this same player would have the same excuses made for them at any other club.

Head. Nail. Bang.

Vividly remember Rooney and Ronaldo development. You knew what you were seeing. Question wasn't their ability, but their consistency and decision-making (Ronaldo esp.) or their temperament (Rooney esp.).

Ronaldo's was an interesting trajectory. Stats-wise, his goal return increased year-on-year at a steady clip until he suddenly exploded in 2006/7 (though there were signs toward the end of 2005/6 and at the World Cup that summer). With Rooney, you could just see it earlier (even before Euro 2004). He seemed to play like a much older player, though his temper could let him down (sometimes! - can't forget that volley against Newcastle after moaning at the ref). Point is, signing them at that age for that fee (esp. Rooney) was understandable.

 

[united for life]

When he signed some media compared him with Haaland. They ONLY have 2 things in common, the H in the beginning and the nd in the end.

70 Millions ladies and gents.

He has been below average. But to be fair to him:

1- it is not his fault we bought him for 70 million. This is on those who negotiated the deal.
2- he is a kid who got thrown into a struggling team with lot os media attention. To bring in someone with his young profile and expect him to walk into the team and resolve our scoring issues is insane.

I am not sure what is happening in training. But I see no improvement also. Signing Zirkzee, rather than a more mature no 9, was another mistake. They both seem lost now

 

[Tallis]

He has been below average. But to be fair to him:

1- it is not his fault we bought him for 70 million. This is on those who negotiated the deal.
2- he is a kid who got thrown into a struggling team with lot os media attention. To bring in someone with his young profile and expect him to walk into the team and resolve our scoring issues is insane.

I am not sure what is happening in training. But I see no improvement also. Signing Zirkzee, rather than a more mature no 9, was another mistake. They both seem lost now

Last year the football was bad but we had our moments (a good game there / a good half there etc) and he performed in these moments scoring 15 goals. The main issues last year were in MF but the attack functioned okayish.

Under Amorim, the football is terrible and the attack is non existent. We are moving the ball slowly and no-one is making runs (perhaps because priority is to hold shape). We do have more control in MF though which is why the defence looks somewhat better than last year.

 

[Tallis]

When he signed some media compared him with Haaland. They ONLY have 2 things in common, the H in the beginning and the nd in the end.

70 Millions ladies and gents.

Media did that comparison to set him to fail when obviously the profile was very different. They also pointed to their transfer fee being the same completely ignoring that Haaland had buy-out clause and the main expense is his wages which is close to 800K a week vs the 130-140k a week for Hojlund. Haaland costs 7-8x of Hojlund.

 

[Lyng]

Progressive passes received: Zirkzee 45 Ras 21

Touches in opponents box: Zirkzee 32 Ras 7

Shot creating actions Zikrzee 77 Ras 36

I'm not ignoring anything I said in my post that any metric you'd like to measure shows Rasmus being way off it. There's three above which measure where a player is receiving the ball. So if Zirkzee is making so many more passes because he's dropping deep then why does he massively outperform Ras for progressive passes received/touches in opponents box and shot creating actions? All of which are stats that measure play in the final 3rd.

Why don't you or anyone else defending him give us all some examples of how his particular game is showing up in the metrics?

One is more of a 10. The other is more of a striker.
Zirkzee is much better at receiving the ball and playing with the team.
Rasmus prefers to run channels and run at the defence rather than playing with his back to goal. Something that Zirkzee is awful at.
For some reason we never play throughballs that Rasmus can run with. Its always a ball straight at him while he has a defender on his neck or a high ball hoofed above him.
Second season is also a thing. Rasmus scored a lot more last season.

 

[JE-365]

One is more of a 10. The other is more of a striker.
Zirkzee is much better at receiving the ball and playing with the team.
Rasmus prefers to run channels and run at the defence rather than playing with his back to goal. Something that Zirkzee is awful at.
For some reason we never play throughballs that Rasmus can run with. Its always a ball straight at him while he has a defender on his neck or a high ball hoofed above him.
Second season is also a thing. Rasmus scored a lot more last season.

We aren’t a team who relies on long passes anymore or a team who relies on counter attack like under Ole. That’s why we have been cutting the Hollywood passes attempted since Amorim came.

Amorim wants to build a team based on more control meaning the striker will need to be good to receive pass while he has a defender on his back. What Hojlund will need to do is be a good striker by doing the followings:

• Improve his first touch significantly because he has the worst first touch of striker I had ever seen to play for United.
• Improve his strength and balance significantly because he’s too weak and easily bullied. Even when the ball was delivered to the box, defenders can still easily outmuscle him.
• Do less wrestling with defenders. When he receives the pass while he has defenders on his back do more first touch and two touches passes, instead of dwelling on the ball too long by wrestling the defenders which he will never gonna win because he’s physically too weak.
• Improve his shooting.
• Improve his heading ability because he has zero heading ability.

 

[Lyng]

We aren’t a team who relies on long passes anymore or a team who relies on counter attack like under Ole. That’s why we have been cutting the Hollywood passes attempted since Amorim came.

Amorim wants to build a team based on more control meaning the striker will need to be good to receive pass while he has a defender on his back. What Hojlund will need to do is be a good striker by doing the followings:

• Improve his first touch significantly because he has the worst first touch of striker I had ever seen to play for United.
• Improve his strength and balance significantly because he’s too weak and easily bullied. Even when the ball was delivered to the box, defenders can still easily outmuscle him.
• Do less wrestling with defenders. When he receives the pass while he has defenders on his back do more first touch and two touches passes, instead of dwelling on the ball too long by wrestling the defenders which he will never gonna win because he’s physically too weak.
• Improve his shooting.
• Improve his heading ability because he has zero heading ability.

No one is talking about Hollywood passes. Im talking about straight low passes in to channels to run on.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

One is more of a 10. The other is more of a striker.
Zirkzee is much better at receiving the ball and playing with the team.
Rasmus prefers to run channels and run at the defence rather than playing with his back to goal. Something that Zirkzee is awful at.
For some reason we never play throughballs that Rasmus can run with. Its always a ball straight at him while he has a defender on his neck or a high ball hoofed above him.
Second season is also a thing. Rasmus scored a lot more last season.

That's because this whole "hojlund is a channel running striker" is rubbish.

The only channel running I've seen is when the opposition defence is completely opened on a counter attack and hojlund goes full gung ho on a sprint and finish.

This is exactly what Garnacho does whenever he gets open space on the counter attack so it's not a particularly unique skill.

Bruno fernandes, Eriksen and even Ugarte (as seen to Garnacho in the last game) constantly play through balls to every team mate but it never gets to Hojlund why?

Because
A) Hojlund doesn't make timed defence splitting runs especially centrally
B) he is so limited with his running, he feels like the best way to impose himself on a game is to play back to goal rather than constantly making runs in behind.
C) because of this none of his teammates try to find him because passing to him is useless centrally as he isn't going to position himself to score by making runs, if the pass comes to him directly with his back to goal then the ball bounces off him like it's been passed on to a wall
D) therefore what our creators do is usually pass the ball out wide to our wider players and wingers hoping they can cross in to hojlund to get on the end of it rather than playing central through balls for Hojlund to make runs on to. We saw this with Garnacho trying to set up Hojlund from out wide but again Hojlund makes a darting run to line himself towards the opposition defence rather than making a high iq run away from the defender.

Alot of his goals have come from players setting him up from wide in the PL, europa league and the CL.

I honestly can't count 2 goals he scored as a channel running striker, he is a counter attacking striker with the ability to be a poacher in the box.

Nothing much else.

 

[Escobar]

He manages to get zero involvement in our play, positional ghost

 

[JE-365]

No one is talking about Hollywood passes. Im talking about straight low passes in to channels to run on.

It still counts as high risk pass. Amorim wants to build a team based on more control meaning the striker will need to be good to receive pass while he has a defender on his back.

 

[MUEricTheKing]

We aren’t a team who relies on long passes anymore or a team who relies on counter attack like under Ole. That’s why we have been cutting the Hollywood passes attempted since Amorim came.

Amorim wants to build a team based on more control meaning the striker will need to be good to receive pass while he has a defender on his back. What Hojlund will need to do is be a good striker by doing the followings:

• Improve his first touch significantly because he has the worst first touch of striker I had ever seen to play for United.
• Improve his strength and balance significantly because he’s too weak and easily bullied. Even when the ball was delivered to the box, defenders can still easily outmuscle him.
• Do less wrestling with defenders. When he receives the pass while he has defenders on his back do more first touch and two touches passes, instead of dwelling on the ball too long by wrestling the defenders which he will never gonna win because he’s physically too weak.
• Improve his shooting.
• Improve his heading ability because he has zero heading ability.

So improve all attributes a striker needs. Good luck.
Let’s cut our losses and get it it right this summer window.

 

[JE-365]

So improve all attributes a striker needs. Good luck.
Let’s cut our losses and get it it right this summer window.

I was trying to say that but in a nicest way and giving the poster some hope that the player can still make it if Hojlund can make improvement in most of the dot points.

 

[silvercre]

When he lost the ball in the span of 15 seconds three times.

I think he needs to go to Bundesliga this summer, have a feeling he might do well there.

 

[Zico1982]

Højlund and Dalot are scapegoat 1 & 2 at the moment for a lot of keyboard warriors in here calling themselves Manchester United fans. A fan is supposed to get behind the players and support them as long as they are working hard for the club. Dalot and Højlund are both hitting rock bottom at the moment, but they are still fighting for the shirt. Both players have shown, that they have quality in the last season and there is no reason to believe, that they won´t find their form again. Support your players. They are probably more frustrated over the current situation than you are.

 

[No Love]

What Hojlund will need to do is be a good striker by doing the followings:

• Improve his first touch significantly because he has the worst first touch of striker I had ever seen to play for United.
• Improve his strength and balance significantly because he’s too weak and easily bullied. Even when the ball was delivered to the box, defenders can still easily outmuscle him.
• Do less wrestling with defenders. When he receives the pass while he has defenders on his back do more first touch and two touches passes, instead of dwelling on the ball too long by wrestling the defenders which he will never gonna win because he’s physically too weak.
• Improve his shooting.
• Improve his heading ability because he has zero heading ability.

- A diabolical first touch.
- Poor strength and balance.
- A propensity to wrestle with defenders and dwell on the ball.
- Poor shooting.
- Nonexistent heading ability.

But apart from that, he’s a cracking player!

 

[Rozay]

Media did that comparison to set him to fail when obviously the profile was very different. They also pointed to their transfer fee being the same completely ignoring that Haaland had buy-out clause and the main expense is his wages which is close to 800K a week vs the 130-140k a week for Hojlund. Haaland costs 7-8x of Hojlund.

More than just the media, I had always suspected that Haaland had played a part in us signing Hojlund. The coincidence was too much, and to me, it seemed that as soon as a ‘similar profile’ centre forward came around we didn’t want to make the ‘same mistake’, so to speak, and wanted to get our Own Haaland in.

I said this more than once at the time, but I think if Haaland doesn’t exist, we don’t sign Hojlund. Haaland himself is not the default profile centre forward for a top club. I’m sure Pep especially secretly hates him! He i a striker who is tolerated by top clubs due to his output - but prior to his emergence, top clubs were overlooking and letting go of strikers who ‘just scored goals’. All round game was seen as JUST as important as goals, but that was partly because the goals were never as many as Haaland scored anyway. Players like Aguero were let go by Pep himself who preferred Gabriel Jesus. Lukaku let go by United in favour of Martial. Aubameyang let go from Arsenal. These are strikers who would often feature near the top of the scoring charts. Had it been that period - I don’t think we sign Hojlund at all. However, Haaland’s emergence got Hojlund and Nunez a job.

The issue, as I’ve said loads of times, Hojlund only works if he scores a ridiculous amount of goals. He is a striker who starts from a place of needing to compensate for not being a good enough footballer for Manchester United. Haaland has successfully compensated for that at City, but the reality is that it’s unlikely most strikers do, and as such they find themselves struggling to establish themselves in the XIs of top teams - like Nunez and Hojlund, or struggling to get signed by one at all in the case of Osimhen.

If Haaland was a consistent 20 goal striker, he wouldn’t play for City. He needs to score 40 to make it worth it for them, especially under Pep. At 20 goals, I reckon Pep would take a 15 goal Jesus-type over him any day. Hojlund is a shit version of Haaland, without the goals. We were conned into buying him because of his fellow blonde, 6ft+ Scandinavian of similar name. The media started their work after the fact, this one isn’t on them.

 

[astracrazy]

Højlund and Dalot are scapegoat 1 & 2 at the moment for a lot of keyboard warriors in here calling themselves Manchester United fans. A fan is supposed to get behind the players and support them as long as they are working hard for the club. Dalot and Højlund are both hitting rock bottom at the moment, but they are still fighting for the shirt. Both players have shown, that they have quality in the last season and there is no reason to believe, that they won´t find their form again. Support your players. They are probably more frustrated over the current situation than you are.

So because you are a fan you arn't allowed to criticise? Or express concern that a player isn't good enough? Strange take....what do you say everytime we kick off? This is shit but I'm a fan so give me some more.

And in what possible way has Hojlund shown he has the quality to play for Man Utd since he signed?

 

[Zico1982]

So because you are a fan you arn't allowed to criticise? Or express concern that a player isn't good enough? Strange take....what do you say everytime we kick off? This is shit but I'm a fan so give me some more.

And in what possible way has Hojlund shown he has the quality to play for Man Utd since he signed?

It is about the tone. It is not all black or white, and no one in this squad are Championship level or shit or useless.

 

[Lyng]

That's because this whole "hojlund is a channel running striker" is rubbish.

The only channel running I've seen is when the opposition defence is completely opened on a counter attack and hojlund goes full gung ho on a sprint and finish.

This is exactly what Garnacho does whenever he gets open space on the counter attack so it's not a particularly unique skill.

Bruno fernandes, Eriksen and even Ugarte (as seen to Garnacho in the last game) constantly play through balls to every team mate but it never gets to Hojlund why?

Because
A) Hojlund doesn't make timed defence splitting runs especially centrally
B) he is so limited with his running, he feels like the best way to impose himself on a game is to play back to goal rather than constantly making runs in behind.
C) because of this none of his teammates try to find him because passing to him is useless centrally as he isn't going to position himself to score by making runs, if the pass comes to him directly with his back to goal then the ball bounces off him like it's been passed on to a wall
D) therefore what our creators do is usually pass the ball out wide to our wider players and wingers hoping they can cross in to hojlund to get on the end of it rather than playing central through balls for Hojlund to make runs on to. We saw this with Garnacho trying to set up Hojlund from out wide but again Hojlund makes a darting run to line himself towards the opposition defence rather than making a high iq run away from the defender.

Alot of his goals have come from players setting him up from wide in the PL, europa league and the CL.

I honestly can't count 2 goals he scored as a channel running striker, he is a counter attacking striker with the ability to be a poacher in the box.

Nothing much else.

Nonsense. He was having success in Atalanta precisely because of his channel runs. We usually only play those towards the wing.

a) He did early on but sadly we are set up and he was clearly asked to play with back to goal which is silly, given he is not that type of striker
b) nonsense. He actually has great runs. Most of his goals for us come from these kinds of runs.
c) Nah we just dont play those centrally. Case in point Kobbie against Leicester. Højlund prepares the run and the space is there, but the pass goes backwards.
D) its simply what they are used to. We have been so focused on wingplay that that is what our players do,either that or pass backwards.

Højlund has a ton of limitations and I dont believe he is good enough, but the one thig he is good at we dont use. Watch his goals in the champions league last season if you dont remember him doing those runs.

 

[harms]

- A diabolical first touch.
- Poor strength and balance.
- A propensity to wrestle with defenders and dwell on the ball.
- Poor shooting.
- Nonexistent heading ability.

But apart from that, he’s a cracking player!

He isn’t a poor shooter. Can’t argue with the rest, although poor movement in the box is still his biggest downfall as a striker at the moment.

 

[Red00012]

The one thing I can't question with Rasmus is his commitment to the cause.

His pressing is rubbish.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

Nonsense. He was having success in Atalanta precisely because of his channel runs. We usually only play those towards the wing.

a) He did early on but sadly we are set up and he was clearly asked to play with back to goal which is silly, given he is not that type of striker
b) nonsense. He actually has great runs. Most of his goals for us come from these kinds of runs.
c) Nah we just dont play those centrally. Case in point Kobbie against Leicester. Højlund prepares the run and the space is there, but the pass goes backwards.
D) its simply what they are used to. We have been so focused on wingplay that that is what our players do,either that or pass backwards.

Højlund has a ton of limitations and I dont believe he is good enough, but the one thig he is good at we dont use. Watch his goals in the champions league last season if you dont remember him doing those runs.

Show me the videos of atleast 4 goals of his channel runs you can use both united or atalanta to help you out

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Improve his shooting.

The other points are fair, but this one… really? Unless you mean he should shoot more often of course

 

[JE-365]

The other points are fair, but this one… really? Unless you mean he should shoot more often of course

Shooting technique so he can be a striker to have one of the best ball striking.

 

[Lyng]

Show me the videos of atleast 4 goals of his channel runs you can use both united or atalanta to help you out

 

[Redstain]

The only decent element about Rasmus game is that he can finish but everything is he is almost absolutely useless at.

United playing him week in week out is hampering his development. The level of the league is too high for him, he needs a loan either in the championship or in Europe where he can play without pressure and the expectation that is rightly demanded from a United forward. If he's still firing blanks after that period sell him.

 

[astracrazy]

It is about the tone. It is not all black or white, and no one in this squad are Championship level or shit or useless.

But plenty of this squad not good enough to play for us. Including Hojlund.

 

[Fortitude]

That player has all but evaporated. He’s lost belief in himself big time.

 

[Ted Lasso]

Not sure comparing him to Rooney and Ronaldo is sensible. Maybe Drogba, Vieiri, Milito or Ruud. Can't think of too many players of his profile in the last ten years that have started at a champions league medal contender club or top 4 in the premier league.

Then begs the question, if this isn't the type of forward for top teams what else does he have to develop to get there and when exactly would we see it. Certainly harder to stomach the big price tag but I feel like that's just an inevitable man United tax

 

[jem]

His pressing is rubbish.

As I said, the one thing I don’t question is his commitment; everything else is questionable

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Shooting technique so he can be a striker to have one of the best ball striking.

But… nothing indicates his shooting is anything less than excellent?

 

[V.O.]

But… nothing indicates his shooting is anything less than excellent?

I guess some are getting to the point with Hojlund where a player having a bad season just turns into complete and irrational hatred of everything about them, and eventually just flat out making things up so you've got new and interesting things to whinge about.

Reminds me of how we had people start calling Antony lazy last year... it's like the only problem that he definitely doesn't have, but people will say it anyway.

 

[Lyng]

That player has all but evaporated. He’s lost belief in himself big time.

Absolutely. He needs to leave on loan asap

 

[JE-365]

But… nothing indicates his shooting is anything less than excellent?

I guess some are getting to the point with Hojlund where a player having a bad season just turns into complete and irrational hatred of everything about them, and eventually just flat out making things up so you've got new and interesting things to whinge about.

Reminds me of how we had people start calling Antony lazy last year... it's like the only problem that he definitely doesn't have, but people will say it anyway.

Come on, do you guys really think he doesn’t need to improve his shooting? He’s nowhere near Gyokeres as ball striking. It’s nothing to do with hate and it’s not making things up. Even when he got the chance vs Liverpool one v one, his shooting wasn’t good enough. I was being rational to make list of what he needs to improve and that includes his shooting.

 

[Waynne]

I'm actually fine with the striker making that run in that situation, as it forces the defenders to keep moving that direction as well. That opens up more space for the cutback for one of the #10's, CM's or WB's to be running into. Unfortunately those players often weren't in the right position.

The other alternative is for the striker to drop into that area and have the #10 or WB attacking the far post, to create space that way.

That area is open because he has pushed the cb deep with his run, the problem is that Zirkzee or Bruno should be there to slot those home but they aren't.

Also maybe Garnacho should try to look before just passing to no-one

Makes sense. Its annoying that our forwards don't have any sort of chemistry.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Come on, do you guys really think he doesn’t need to improve his shooting? He’s nowhere near Gyokeres as ball striking. It’s nothing to do with hate and it’s not making things up. Even when he got the chance vs Liverpool one v one, his shooting wasn’t good enough. I was being rational to make list of what he needs to improve and that includes his shooting.

No. Sorry, but you are just plain wrong. As I said, if you meant that he must shoot more often you’d have had a point, but when he does shoot it’s with bags of quality. Unless you have an agenda against him and can’t stomach that he’s actually adept at something you must be imagining things. He’s a very complete finisher with both feet as you can see if you go back and watch his goals, and he had one of the best conversion rates and shots on target % last season. Of all the skills you could point to his shooting is probably the one needing the least improving.

 

[Greck]

He doesn't get service because he's always behind the defender. Look at when Dorgu or Garnacho had the ball out wide. I can't tell if he times his runs a bit too late or he just doesn't have quick enough acceleration over 5 yards but he rarely ever beats the CB to goalscoring positions. It's not enough to arrive if you don't arrive on time.

 

[Fobal]

Not sure comparing him to Rooney and Ronaldo is sensible. Maybe Drogba, Vieiri, Milito or Ruud. Can't think of too many players of his profile in the last ten years that have started at a champions league medal contender club or top 4 in the premier league.

Then begs the question, if this isn't the type of forward for top teams what else does he have to develop to get there and when exactly would we see it. Certainly harder to stomach the big price tag but I feel like that's just an inevitable man United tax

Milito actually was always more of a skilled second striker, without a trully great second march, pace, that became quite a prolific (or mostly relliant) goalscorer sort of striker at some stages of his carreer, I don't see him similar to Ramus at all.

 

[Tallis]

Haaland would struggle in our current line-up so I feel its a little pointless to write off Hojlund or even Zirkzee on the basis of what they are doing currently,