Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Shinjch]

Good, I think it would be a mistake.

Garnacho has shown he has character unlike Rashford, and should stay.

Mainoo should be further developed and not overplayed.

I‘m curious about what changed when Amorim was appointed: do we still have a game model or did it go out the window?

Yea, I am really interested in this too after the song and dance that was made about the game model when Wilcox got his job and the strategy he was looking to implement.

Can viewers of the younger age group teams let us know if those teams are now playing the same system as the first team to make it easier for them to adapt to the first team when the time comes? Has that meant a change in coaching team at all in the younger age groups? The youth teams seemed to be doing well, has any of the changes to the way the first team line up impacted on that, or are they just carrying on with their own thing separate to what goes in with the first team?

 

[userman]

I was left bewildered by Amorims choice to put Dorgu on RWB and keep Dalot at LWB on Friday, and I really don't understand Amorims urge to persist with two inverted wingbacks when it clearly not working.

It's clear to see that we are very predictable in our style of play, whereas we're dependig on our wide players to either cut in and shoot (alternativeliy passing it centrally/backwards) or us trying to force it through the middle somehow. The only slight exceptions to this is Garnacho and Amad, as a RWB, as they from time to time do actually go for the byline and try for crosses/cutbacks.
Our wingbacks offers limited penetrative threats and don't really go for the byline to do crosses or cutbacks. They rarely offer runs and/or penetrative threaths as they rather prefer maintaining their wide positions to receive the ball in their feet to cut back in and shoot or to play it centrally/backwards. This also leaves us with strikers that gets very little to feed on in the box without early crosses or cutbacks from the wide players.
They way we play now is so predictable and one dimensional, and seemingly easy to defend against for our oppossition.

We're not a team that crosses the ball into the box. We're relying on carries/dribling, not passing. We go for hopeful long range shots, rather that playing our way closer to goal. Little progressive play and lack of simultaneous threats (e.g. runs in behind from several players).

It's probably way to simplistic of me, but judging by both the underlying stats and what we see ourselves every match, I do beilieve that we could ask ourselves a few questions regarding our issues;
1. How can we create more chances/shots?
2. How can we get closer to the goal before finishing?
3. If solved, can question 1 and 2 get more out of our strikers?
4. How can we become less predictable/offer more threat in posession?
and 5. Can wingbacks playing on their "natural sides" have a positive impact on our issues?

My answer: I genuinely do believe that "naturally sided wingbacks", and giving them attacking freedom, can and will help us improve alot on all these questions.

So heres what the Premier League-stats show;
- 18th in crosses
- 17th in crosses into the penalty area
= We're not a team that crosses the ball (symptomatic of playing with inverted wide players/wingbacks).
- 11th in passes into the penalty area
- 9th in carries into the penalty area
= We're mostly relying on carries/dribling into the penatly area, not passes.

- 12th in number of shots per game
- 4th highest % of our shots coming from outside of the box
- 14th in % of our shots coming from inside the 18 yards box
- 18th in % of our shots coming from inside the 6 yards box
- 14th in shot distance
= Comparatively attempting more long range shots, rather than closer range shots from inside the box.

- 5th in completed passes
- 10th in progressive passe
- 13th in progressive carries
- 3rd and 4th in Touches in the Defensive 3rd and Middle 3rd
- 10th in Touches in the attacking 3rd and 10th in Touches in the Attacking Penalty Area
- 15th in goals coming from open play
= Getting possession isn't the problem, the problem is being progressive and/or creating chances with it.

I accept that it was only Dorgus first match, and also that it takes time to implement a new tactic and style of play, but I'm still somewhat concerned that this obsession with inverted wingbacks (and 10's) will prove unsuccessfull for us and be Amorims downfall.

 

[flameinthesun]

As if this fanbase would have been satisfied with a Frank type manager, coming in and just "getting results". This latest hiring is proof too many of our fans our gutless and don't have the stomach for anything actually difficult. All talk.

What classifies as having the stomach for anything actually difficult?

 

[RedSky]

This is that kind of arrogant 'top red' post. We all want the club to change, though I fear it will never really change until Glazers are somehow gone. But there is change with a clear goal and change for its own sake. Right now we seem to be in the latter, with a young and unproven (outside a minor league) manager who seems to be struggling to know how to improve things and is making weird selections. He isn't getting sacked this season but unless there is clear improvement in play next season he will be. There are sensible reasons to be concerned about signing a relatively unproven system manager, something that is really rare in top level football. I read an interesting article at the weekend flagging that more clubs are now moving away from City's rigid positional play and playing more direct and taking more risks, Bournemouth is a great example of this. I don't know if this is how Amorim's Sporting played but I hope his system is not too rigid in positioning.

It's just nonsense. Our fans want a modern young Manager. When we get one and we get some bad results (although our results have been ok lately) he's suddenly young and unproven.

Our fans want change, they get change but it's a bit bumpy because change always will be bumpy. Yet people moan and want him sacked.

People complained that Ten Hag changed his Ajax system, now we have a Manager who is sticking to his system and they complain.

I just think some of our fanbase don't have the fight. They don't have the stomach for a rough period and would sooner just sack and find a Manager that will put a plaster over our wound so long as it improves short term form. I'm not enjoying watching us play, the first half on Friday was horrific, but this is all the direct cause of Ineos fecking up the decision to stick with Ten Hag.

I also genuinely feel sorry for any Manager taking over this club right now, the squad is just abysmal and we clearly are struggling for money after wasting 2 billion in the past decade.

 

[NLunited]

I was left bewildered by Amorims choice to put Dorgu on RWB and keep Dalot at LWB on Friday, and I really don't understand Amorims urge to persist with two inverted wingbacks when it clearly not working.

It's clear to see that we are very predictable in our style of play, whereas we're dependig on our wide players to either cut in and shoot (alternativeliy passing it centrally/backwards) or us trying to force it through the middle somehow. The only slight exceptions to this is Garnacho and Amad, as a RWB, as they from time to time do actually go for the byline and try for crosses/cutbacks.
Our wingbacks offers limited penetrative threats and don't really go for the byline to do crosses or cutbacks. They rarely offer runs and/or penetrative threaths as they rather prefer maintaining their wide positions to receive the ball in their feet to cut back in and shoot or to play it centrally/backwards. This also leaves us with strikers that gets very little to feed on in the box without early crosses or cutbacks from the wide players.
They way we play now is so predictable and one dimensional, and seemingly easy to defend against for our oppossition.

We're not a team that crosses the ball into the box. We're relying on carries/dribling, not passing. We go for hopeful long range shots, rather that playing our way closer to goal. Little progressive play and lack of simultaneous threats (e.g. runs in behind from several players).

It's probably way to simplistic of me, but judging by both the underlying stats and what we see ourselves every match, I do beilieve that we could ask ourselves a few questions regarding our issues;
1. How can we create more chances/shots?
2. How can we get closer to the goal before finishing?
3. If solved, can question 1 and 2 get more out of our strikers?
4. How can we become less predictable/offer more threat in posession?
and 5. Can wingbacks playing on their "natural sides" have a positive impact on our issues?

My answer: I genuinely do believe that "naturally sided wingbacks", and giving them attacking freedom, can and will help us improve alot on all these questions.

So heres what the Premier League-stats show;
- 18th in crosses
- 17th in crosses into the penalty area
= We're not a team that crosses the ball (symptomatic of playing with inverted wide players/wingbacks).
- 11th in passes into the penalty area
- 9th in carries into the penalty area
= We're mostly relying on carries/dribling into the penatly area, not passes.

- 12th in number of shots per game
- 4th highest % of our shots coming from outside of the box
- 14th in % of our shots coming from inside the 18 yards box
- 18th in % of our shots coming from inside the 6 yards box
- 14th in shot distance
= Comparatively attempting more long range shots, rather than closer range shots from inside the box.

- 5th in completed passes
- 10th in progressive passe
- 13th in progressive carries
- 3rd and 4th in Touches in the Defensive 3rd and Middle 3rd
- 10th in Touches in the attacking 3rd and 10th in Touches in the Attacking Penalty Area
- 15th in goals coming from open play
= Getting possession isn't the problem, the problem is being progressive and/or creating chances with it.

I accept that it was only Dorgus first match, and also that it takes time to implement a new tactic and style of play, but I'm still somewhat concerned that this obsession with inverted wingbacks (and 10's) will prove unsuccessfull for us and be Amorims downfall.

Thanks, this is what I‘m seeing on the pitch as well.

If we fix these issues, things should be a lot easier going forward.

 

[RedSky]

Thanks, this is what I‘m seeing on the pitch as well.

If we fix these issues, things should be a lot easier going forward.

Part 1 of the riddle is drop Rasmus. He's not the man we need in the middle. Zirkzee might not be a particular goal threat and that is a big problem but he can at least hold onto the ball and press well. That gets us automatically higher up the pitch.

The alternative theory is we try Zirkzee and Rasmus together as we did play our best football with them both on the pitch. Maybe having that extra man near Rasmus is what he needs to find a bit more room.

Personally I wouldn't be upset if we started Tottenham with the players we ended with against Leicester as that's the first time in a long time I've seen us put any team on the ropes for a sustained period of time.

 

[userman]

Thanks, this is what I‘m seeing on the pitch as well.

If we fix these issues, things should be a lot easier going forward.

Yeah, would sure hope/think so.

Part 1 of the riddle is drop Rasmus. He's not the man we need in the middle. Zirkzee might not be a particular goal threat and that is a big problem but he can at least hold onto the ball and press well. That gets us automatically higher up the pitch.

The alternative theory is we try Zirkzee and Rasmus together as we did play our best football with them both on the pitch. Maybe having that extra man near Rasmus is what he needs to find a bit more room.

Personally I wouldn't be upset if we started Tottenham with the players we ended with against Leicester as that's the first time in a long time I've seen us put any team on the ropes for a sustained period of time.

Well yes, I completely agree that neither of Hojlund or Zirkzee are good enough. We must improve on them in the summer. But I would also claim that our style of play doesn't really favour any striker right now, as in we could buy a Osimhen or a Gyokeres and there would be highly unlikely that that would provide us with 20+ goals striker.

I also agree that the way we ended the match against Leicester was good, and something we could build on against Spurs. IMO what changed in that second half was that Garnacho pursued the byline and crossed or cut back, Garnacho/Dalot making coordinated runs (offering more threaths), and Amad being more attacking minded on RWB. This enabled us to push Leicester back and Hojlund+Zirkzee being able to fill up the box and getting something to work with which resultet in our goal.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I was left bewildered by Amorims choice to put Dorgu on RWB and keep Dalot at LWB on Friday, and I really don't understand Amorims urge to persist with two inverted wingbacks when it clearly not working.

It's clear to see that we are very predictable in our style of play, whereas we're dependig on our wide players to either cut in and shoot (alternativeliy passing it centrally/backwards) or us trying to force it through the middle somehow. The only slight exceptions to this is Garnacho and Amad, as a RWB, as they from time to time do actually go for the byline and try for crosses/cutbacks.
Our wingbacks offers limited penetrative threats and don't really go for the byline to do crosses or cutbacks. They rarely offer runs and/or penetrative threaths as they rather prefer maintaining their wide positions to receive the ball in their feet to cut back in and shoot or to play it centrally/backwards. This also leaves us with strikers that gets very little to feed on in the box without early crosses or cutbacks from the wide players.
They way we play now is so predictable and one dimensional, and seemingly easy to defend against for our oppossition.

We're not a team that crosses the ball into the box. We're relying on carries/dribling, not passing. We go for hopeful long range shots, rather that playing our way closer to goal. Little progressive play and lack of simultaneous threats (e.g. runs in behind from several players).

It's probably way to simplistic of me, but judging by both the underlying stats and what we see ourselves every match, I do beilieve that we could ask ourselves a few questions regarding our issues;
1. How can we create more chances/shots?
2. How can we get closer to the goal before finishing?
3. If solved, can question 1 and 2 get more out of our strikers?
4. How can we become less predictable/offer more threat in posession?
and 5. Can wingbacks playing on their "natural sides" have a positive impact on our issues?

My answer: I genuinely do believe that "naturally sided wingbacks", and giving them attacking freedom, can and will help us improve alot on all these questions.

So heres what the Premier League-stats show;
- 18th in crosses
- 17th in crosses into the penalty area
= We're not a team that crosses the ball (symptomatic of playing with inverted wide players/wingbacks).
- 11th in passes into the penalty area
- 9th in carries into the penalty area
= We're mostly relying on carries/dribling into the penatly area, not passes.

- 12th in number of shots per game
- 4th highest % of our shots coming from outside of the box
- 14th in % of our shots coming from inside the 18 yards box
- 18th in % of our shots coming from inside the 6 yards box
- 14th in shot distance
= Comparatively attempting more long range shots, rather than closer range shots from inside the box.

- 5th in completed passes
- 10th in progressive passe
- 13th in progressive carries
- 3rd and 4th in Touches in the Defensive 3rd and Middle 3rd
- 10th in Touches in the attacking 3rd and 10th in Touches in the Attacking Penalty Area
- 15th in goals coming from open play
= Getting possession isn't the problem, the problem is being progressive and/or creating chances with it.

I accept that it was only Dorgus first match, and also that it takes time to implement a new tactic and style of play, but I'm still somewhat concerned that this obsession with inverted wingbacks (and 10's) will prove unsuccessfull for us and be Amorims downfall.

Yep, so obvious it is just wild we're not doing it.
I get the basic principle of being wary of counters and therefore it is risky to commit your WB beyond the opposite FB - but United fans will have a lot more patience if we are putting the ball in the box, creating lots of chances and getting a few sucker punch goals versus just being soundly beaten.

 

[RedSky]

but United fans will have a lot more patience if we are putting the ball in the box, creating lots of chances and getting a few sucker punch goals versus just being soundly beaten.

Didn't happen under Ole. We got the PE teacher comments very quickly despite us scoring a lot of goals with him. I don't think that argument holds up.

Part of our problem is that the two players shooting the most frequently are the two players we don't want to be shooting because their conversion rate are so bad (Bruno and Garnacho).

Bruno is very guilty of taking far too many shots outside of the box. His stats are unusually high.

 

[romufc]

Didn't happen under Ole. We got the PE teacher comments very quickly despite us scoring a lot of goals with him. I don't think that argument holds up.

Part of our problem is that the two players shooting the most frequently are the two players we don't want to be shooting because their conversion rate are so bad (Bruno and Garnacho).

Bruno is very guilty of taking far too many shots outside of the box. His stats are unusually high.

Do you have the stats to prove this? Bruno this season averages 2 shots per game... 0.83 shots on target per game....

Could you show me how that is unusually high?

 

[JPRouve]

Do you have the stats to prove this? Bruno this season averages 2 shots per game... 0.83 shots on target per game....

Could you show me how that is unusually high?

I wouldn't use the term unusual because while it is the third highest rate in the league among starters. It's not unusual per se, it's just very high.

 

[D. Grayson]

He comes across as a disingenuous populist and a PR merchant.

 

[RedSky]

Do you have the stats to prove this? Bruno this season averages 2 shots per game... 0.83 shots on target per game....

Could you show me how that is unusually high?

Sorry should elaborate, in context of our squad.

He's had 35 shots outside of the box this season in the league (scoring 2, 5.7% CR). Garnacho and Diallo both second highest on 13, Casemiro on 9, Dalot on 7, Rashford, Maz on 6, Mainoo on 5. To put that into perspective, he has a shot every 55mins outside of the box. Next highest is Casemiro on a shot every 93mins, then Garnacho on 101mins. Anyway you get the picture.

Liverpool for example their highest is TAA on 24 shots, Szoboszlai on 16 shots, Gakpo on 13. Citys highest is Kovacic on 24shots, Foden on 22, De Bruyne on 20.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Didn't happen under Ole. We got the PE teacher comments very quickly despite us scoring a lot of goals with him. I don't think that argument holds up.

Part of our problem is that the two players shooting the most frequently are the two players we don't want to be shooting because their conversion rate are so bad (Bruno and Garnacho).

Bruno is very guilty of taking far too many shots outside of the box. His stats are unusually high.

Ole got a lot of patience if you consider he ended his first season DLWDLWLLDWLL. He got a lot of jibes which would have gone away if he'd managed to get a cup but it is what it is.

I'm not sure we crossed that much under Ole re full backs pushing on, our left hand side was likely upper tier in the league - miles behind Liverpool but likely better than 75% of teams, I reckon our right hand side was close to bottom. It was definitely more than now though, agreed, though I guess a fit Luke Shaw makes a big difference.

Agreed re shooting, I think just decision making in general. Garnacho acts like a het up dog in front of goal who has seen the postman out of the window. Bruno I think has toned it down but I made a post ages ago on here about his finishing stats and how much of a liability he was in front of goal for the # of shots he had.

 

[romufc]

Sorry should elaborate, in context of our squad.

He's had 35 shots outside of the box this season in the league (scoring 2, 5.7% CR). Garnacho and Diallo both second highest on 13, Casemiro on 9, Dalot on 7, Rashford, Maz on 6, Mainoo on 5. To put that into perspective, he has a shot every 55mins outside of the box. Next highest is Casemiro on a shot every 93mins, then Garnacho on 101mins. Anyway you get the picture.

Liverpool for example their highest is TAA on 24 shots, Szoboszlai on 16 shots, Gakpo on 13. Citys highest is Kovacic on 24shots, Foden on 22, De Bruyne on 20.

This doesn't make sense, have you got a link for the data?

https://footystats.org/players/portugal/bruno-fernandes

This shows that Bruno has taken 41 shots this season, are you saying that he has only 6 shots from inside the box?

 

[stevoc]

Out of curiosity, what did Pep and Klopp adapt when they came to PL? I, personally, don't see any difference in the way they tried to play in their earlier jobs vs what they tried in the PL

If anything, Klopp was criticized for sticking to his high octane style of play when he came mid-season to the PL

I don't want to get into an indepth off topic discussion on tactics but these links give a decent summary of how they've adapted.


https://learning.coachesvoice.com/cv/jurgen-klopp-tactics-liverpool/

https://www.premierleague.com/news/3450189

 

[PlasticRed]

People keep saying this prem proven didnt work because Moyes failed, or going to a minor league didnt work because Ten Hag failed, or bringing in a superstar manager failed because LVG and Mourinho failed.

Havnt we come to the conclusion that most of these managers were the right guy, it was the structure behind them that failed? Its not the managers job in modern football to have to find targets to buy. he should be presented a number of options from the data/scouting/DOF to pick. That clearly didnt happen in the past.

Any of those managers could have been a success if the had had competent people around them. All have won trophies except for Moyes.

 

[stevoc]

No? He changed his entire setup and tactics after losing his first two matches. No more "Ajax" style and rather going for the usual stuff to get results, playing very similar to how Ole set up the team.

Thats an ok short term solution, but not long term, in my opinion.

Ten Hag was never going to implement the Ajax style.

Then as I said from summer 2023 onwards he stamped down on player power and stuck to his preferred tactics for the next 18 months (thats pretty long term). To his own detriment as it got him the sack eventually.

 

[stevoc]

If you can't see the difference between getting shut of Rashford and getting shut of Sancho, I don't know what to tell you.

Rashford was the Manchester United poster boy, it was almost like performances didn't matter, he would remain a constant in the team. Sancho has always been shit for Manchester United, it's a move that just didn't work and moving him on is a typical transfer which happens at all clubs across all levels. Rashford's is the type which makes you sit up and notice, if Rashford isn't safe from being shipped out, you'd have to assume no player is. That's not something this club has had in a long time.

I've been expecting Rashford to eventually leave at some point this season for close to a year now regardless of who the manager was. So forgive me if I'm not awestruck by a new manager loaning/moving on an underperforming player.

Jose did the similar with Rooney.

 

[stevoc]

EtH was gutless, all he cared about was saving his own skin, not a real root and branch overhaul.

That's all any manager cares about to be fair.

Having said that he got rid of a good 80-90% of the squad he took over.

 

[JPRouve]

People keep saying this prem proven didnt work because Moyes failed, or going to a minor league didnt work because Ten Hag failed, or bringing in a superstar manager failed because LVG and Mourinho failed.

Havnt we come to the conclusion that most of these managers were the right guy, it was the structure behind them that failed? Its not the managers job in modern football to have to find targets to buy. he should be presented a number of options from the data/scouting/DOF to pick. That clearly didnt happen in the past.

Any of those managers could have been a success if the had had competent people around them. All have won trophies except for Moyes.

Why would we come to that conclusion? First none of them followed United with a successful career and secondly most managers fail when they step up. Elite managers are rare, there is a lot of promising/upcoming managers but nearly none of them will prove to be able to manage at a higher level.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

People keep saying this prem proven didnt work because Moyes failed, or going to a minor league didnt work because Ten Hag failed, or bringing in a superstar manager failed because LVG and Mourinho failed.

Havnt we come to the conclusion that most of these managers were the right guy, it was the structure behind them that failed? Its not the managers job in modern football to have to find targets to buy. he should be presented a number of options from the data/scouting/DOF to pick. That clearly didnt happen in the past.

Any of those managers could have been a success if the had had competent people around them. All have won trophies except for Moyes.

Moyes and Ole haven't won anything, well Moyes won the Charity Shield if that counts.
None of our previous managers were the right guy, imo. The board may be the main reason we are where we are, mainly because they chose the wrong manager almost every time. Ole's appointment was probably the only one that made sense at the time.
We do not really know which transfer was made by the board or by the manager but in some cases it is not very hard to guess.

 

[Zlatan 7]

That's all any manager cares about to be fair.

Having said that he got rid of a good 80-90% of the squad he took over.

He did, which we all thought was needed but they’ve been replaced with poorer players and now we’re in this mess that our current manager has to deal with

 

[Woziak]

Yeah,might have something to do with the players??

The last game, Amorim started with Mazroui, Dorgu, Ugarte, Yoro, that’s 4 players signed in last 9 months plus Maguire, unfairly derided by United fans for years, his two Portuguese players Dalot and Bruno who just play every game?

I like Ruben, I love his honesty, I think if we back him he gets it right but let’s not pretend he’s not making huge mistakes?

We buy a left footed wing back, he plays him on the right, he experiments with Mainoo as a false 9, Garnaucho as a narrow second striker, Dalot at Left wing back, he continues to play Bruno at CM with Ugarte and both give the ball away too much, Bruno is an AM/10 and sometimes an 8 in a 4123 with a great 6, he’s not a 6/8 hybrid.

A lot of our problems are being caused by him because he’s not playing a compact 3421 system. He’s trying to please the fans by fitting in players and then constantly tinkering with the team set up, it’s hard enough to learn a new system but then when you’ve been asked to play in 3 separate positions in that system, it’s even harder.

So far Kobbie has played False 9, Right 10, left 10 and CM. Mazroui has played RCB, LCB, RWB and LWB. Bruno has played 6,8, R10 and L10. Even MDL or Maguire have played RCB, LCB and CB. He needs to pick a settled team and work on shape and being compact as a team unit.

I’m no coach but it looks that our best team right now might be;

Bayinder (GK)

N Mazroui(RWB)
MDL (CB)
L Yoro (LCB)

AMAD (RWB)
M Ugarte (Mobile 6)
C Eriksen (Creative 8)
P Dorgu (LWB)

Bruno (R10)
Garnaucho (Wide L10)

J Zirkzee (9)

 

[johndurham49]

Why would we come to that conclusion? First none of them followed United with a successful career and secondly most managers fail when they step up. Elite managers are rare, there is a lot of promising/upcoming managers but nearly none of them will prove to be able to manage at a higher level.

Its called patience which is something a lot dont have these days

 

[leeroyTX]

Sorry should elaborate, in context of our squad.

He's had 35 shots outside of the box this season in the league (scoring 2, 5.7% CR). Garnacho and Diallo both second highest on 13, Casemiro on 9, Dalot on 7, Rashford, Maz on 6, Mainoo on 5. To put that into perspective, he has a shot every 55mins outside of the box. Next highest is Casemiro on a shot every 93mins, then Garnacho on 101mins. Anyway you get the picture.

Liverpool for example their highest is TAA on 24 shots, Szoboszlai on 16 shots, Gakpo on 13. Citys highest is Kovacic on 24shots, Foden on 22, De Bruyne on 20.

Why do you feel that taking shots outside of the box is a bad thing? I think this is a skill/tactic that is slowly going away but it shouldn't. We already face the issue of teams loading the box against us because we're just not creative or clinical enough to score goals when they do. The best way to counter that and to get them out is to take more shots from distance. I'd like to see more shots outside the 18 instead of seeing them go side to side to back to side to back to side to back to turnover.

 

[JPRouve]

Why do you feel that taking shots outside of the box is a bad thing? I think this is a skill/tactic that is slowly going away but it shouldn't. We already face the issue of teams loading the box against us because we're just not creative or clinical enough to score goals when they do. The best way to counter that and to get them out is to take more shots from distance. I'd like to see more shots outside the 18 instead of seeing them go side to side to back to side to back to side to back to turnover.

Long range shots aren't a bad things on their own, they are a bad thing when the player taking them isn't particularly good at it. The same way dribbling isn't a bad thing but you don't want a high dribbling rate from someone that misses them often.

 

[Gavinb33]

Playing an extra centre back? We can’t expect results because we’re playing 3 at the back instead of two? What’s different about the strikers job? What’s different about the midfield two’s job? It’s a crutch. There is zero excuse for how poorly we’re playing.

The only real difference is the full backs being expected to attack a little more. What we’ve done is wilfully make our attack worse than it already was.

And the defense worse as well, there is really nothing positive to say about what's actually improved under his stewardship, again not asking to be world beaters on day one or anything but at least have something we can see that's improving but we have got nothing other than the hope he pulls it around because he did a good job at Sporting

 

[JPRouve]

And the defense worse as well, there is really nothing positive to say about what's actually improved under his stewardship, again not asking to be world beaters on day one or anything but at least have something we can see that's improving but we have got nothing other than the hope he pulls it around because he did a good job at Sporting

Someone rightfully mentioned Garnacho, his management of Garnacho and the response of the player are great signs, that we have a coachable young player and a manager that is an able man manager.

 

[Shark]

He did, which we all thought was needed but they’ve been replaced with poorer players and now we’re in this mess that our current manager has to deal with

How do we know the same thing isn't going to happen again? This regime have already signed players like Mount, Zirkzee and Hojilund. Not saying these players are all guaranteed to fail but it doesn't inspire confidence. This is why we have to be very careful with giving another manager the keys to the mansion, and allowing him to build another team of players not up to the required level. I'm a firm believer that whatever manager we bring in needs to earn the trust to shape another team in his image. ETH somewhat earned that trust after his first season but even then there were massive warning signs after winning that League Cup. We fell off a cliff since that but we didn't heed the warning.

 

[stevoc]

He did, which we all thought was needed but they’ve been replaced with poorer players and now we’re in this mess that our current manager has to deal with

Indeed but hopefully the club has finally learned a valuable lesson from letting a manager direct recruitment.

 

[Shinjch]

How do we know the same thing isn't going to happen again? This regime have already signed players like Mount, Zirkzee and Hojilund. Not saying there players are all guaranteed to fail but it doesn't inspire confidence. This is why we have to be very careful with giving another manager the keys to the mansion, and allowing him to build another team of players not up to the required level. I'm a firm believer that whatever manager we bring in needs to earn the trust to shape another team in his image. ETH somewhat earned that trust after his first season but even then there were massive warning signings after winning that League Cup. We fell off a cliff since that but we didn't heed the warning.

I don't think this current regime of executives signed off the signings of Mount and Hojlund, think they were pre-INEOS. Though their own recruitment hasn't seemed exactly stellar anyway, I think your point still stands anyway.

 

[Gavinb33]

Someone rightfully mentioned Garnacho, his management of Garnacho and the response of the player are great signs, that we have a coachable young player and a manager that is an able man manager.

I guess that's something but that's slim pickings if thats the only thing you can say he has improved since he got here

 

[JPRouve]

I guess that's something but that's slim pickings if thats the only thing you can say he has improved since he got here

That's why I have been critical of the first 3 months, but at least we have one good sign. There is also his management of Zirkzee after the difficult subbing. Some of our previous managers were too happy to ostracize or publicly target struggling players instead he kept Zirkzee in the mix and now he isn't a lost cause.

Based on what I read from posters who watched him before and what he has done at United that most players will respect and play for him.

 

[PlasticRed]

The last game, Amorim started with Mazroui, Dorgu, Ugarte, Yoro, that’s 4 players signed in last 9 months plus Maguire, unfairly derided by United fans for years, his two Portuguese players Dalot and Bruno who just play every game?

I like Ruben, I love his honesty, I think if we back him he gets it right but let’s not pretend he’s not making huge mistakes?

We buy a left footed wing back, he plays him on the right, he experiments with Mainoo as a false 9, Garnaucho as a narrow second striker, Dalot at Left wing back, he continues to play Bruno at CM with Ugarte and both give the ball away too much, Bruno is an AM/10 and sometimes an 8 in a 4123 with a great 6, he’s not a 6/8 hybrid.

A lot of our problems are being caused by him because he’s not playing a compact 3421 system. He’s trying to please the fans by fitting in players and then constantly tinkering with the team set up, it’s hard enough to learn a new system but then when you’ve been asked to play in 3 separate positions in that system, it’s even harder.

So far Kobbie has played False 9, Right 10, left 10 and CM. Mazroui has played RCB, LCB, RWB and LWB. Bruno has played 6,8, R10 and L10. Even MDL or Maguire have played RCB, LCB and CB. He needs to pick a settled team and work on shape and being compact as a team unit.

I’m no coach but it looks that our best team right now might be;

Bayinder (GK)

N Mazroui(RWB)
MDL (CB)
L Yoro (LCB)

AMAD (RWB)
M Ugarte (Mobile 6)
C Eriksen (Creative 8)
P Dorgu (LWB)

Bruno (R10)
Garnaucho (Wide L10)

J Zirkzee (9)

If we had to stick to 532 I would be...

.........................Onana
.........Maz.....MDL.....Yoro
Amad...................................Dorgu
..............Ugarte......Mainoo
..........Fernandes........Garnacho
......................Zirkzee



My preference would be

..........................Onana
Mazraoui........MDL....Yoro.....Dorgu
....................Ugarte...Mainoo
....Amad.........Fernandes...Garnacho
.......................Zirkzee

It baffles me how Mainoo can play for England in a stacked midifeld yet he cant get a game in a threadbare man united team

That 4231 would be easy in top 8

 

[redshaw]

Eriksen instead of shooting has made really nice chipped passes into the box. Bruno has this ability but too often takes a shot, it's up to the manager to discipline him more. I've been encouraged by Garnacho's return looking up for passes and creating goals but in general we need to create more and make more combinations so we get the likes of Zirkzee and Hojlund facing the goal. I hope the manager can play Dorgu left and Dalot right to get the cutbacks and so on or even Amad RWB with Zrikzee right 10 with Hojlund central. Garnacho and Dorgu left attack.

Dorgu has scored more goals at Lecce on the right and can play both sides well so it's great how he can cover and switch but Dalot on the left except facing TAA with VVD shaking his head has been poor, I think we need the balance more right now.

For me Amorim has to show improvement to the end of the season, he said so himself about losing the players early if they don't buy into his methods and even midterm he said if there's no good progress in 1-2 years he expects to get the sack, he has to show he's worth backing. I'm expecting Amorim to be more attacking in his selections and climb the table from here.

If our plan is Gykoeres, Amorim will have some pull but if we're sitting 16th/17th in a "write off" season with his job on the line I wouldn't blame Gyokeres for not coming in the end.

 

[RedSky]

This doesn't make sense, have you got a link for the data?

https://footystats.org/players/portugal/bruno-fernandes

This shows that Bruno has taken 41 shots this season, are you saying that he has only 6 shots from inside the box?

Whoscored has Bruno on 64 shots, 25 outside of box, 28 in the penalty area and 1 in the six yard box. Not sure why there's such a huge difference?

 

[Berbasbullet]

If we had to stick to 532 I would be...

.........................Onana
.........Maz.....MDL.....Yoro
Amad...................................Dorgu
..............Ugarte......Mainoo
..........Fernandes........Garnacho
......................Zirkzee



My preference would be

..........................Onana
Mazraoui........MDL....Yoro.....Dorgu
....................Ugarte...Mainoo
....Amad.........Fernandes...Garnacho
.......................Zirkzee

It baffles me how Mainoo can play for England in a stacked midifeld yet he cant get a game in a threadbare man united team

That 4231 would be easy in top 8

Completely agree with the players in that 11. Think it’s spot on really. Maybe Mainoo is my only question mark.

 

[JPRouve]

Whoscored has Bruno on 64 shots, 25 outside of box, 28 in the penalty area and 1 in the six yard box. Not sure why there's such a huge difference?

Fbref has 61 shots, they both use Opta but don't update it at the same time. And the PL has 64 shots since they also use Opta.

 

[Blood Mage]

He comes across as a disingenuous populist and a PR merchant.

If that was the case he would probably have abandoned his philosophy in favour of survival football by now to improve his job security. I'm not a fan of his management and tactics so far but I don't think you can accuse him of being disingenuous or wanting to be liked.