Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[MCDC]

I really hope you're correct but I just don't have this optimism at the moment. The only times I've had genuine faith that we were on the right track was first under Mourinho when we seemed to have a run of beating everyone 4-0 then the period under Ten Hag when we beat City, Barca and won the League Cup.

With Amorim, I'd like to see where we're at come October. A lot of these wider issues aren't his fault but he'll ultimately lose his job if he can't imorove performances consistently.

My main concern after that is if he is sacked, will Ratcliffe go for a similar manager or are we gonna someone completely different and have another 12-18 months of everyone blaming the last guy for poor performances.

Mourinho start of that 2nd season was the best run of result we have had since SAF left.

That ETH period made me thought a couple of upgrades we would be competing at the top, but with hindsight that Rashford season papered over all of the teams frailties and tactical failings.

I believe the football structure, will go for someone with a similar football philosophy 4 ATB or 3 ATB, shouldn't be a caveat as players should be able to adapt.

No one truly knows what we are planning, I am hoping once we know what is happening in both cups whether we go all the way or knocked out, I expect some transfers to move pretty quickly as we will know our budget for the season, hopefully we are moving quickly to rectify some of the teams issues.

 

[Desert Eagle]

There is also little evidence that completely rebuilding the squad to suit amorim will be worth the effort

That's why you buy players with a profile that any new manager would be happy to have. young, physical, skilled and with the right mentality.

 

[Gavinb33]

He's being slick whether people recognize it or not. Sure most of it is regular sports mumbo jumbo but the two key phrases are

You could feel in moments that it's not working but for some reason the manager wants us to do that

we have a big staff and they watch so many games and prepare themselves and if they do that in the right way

Now after both those parts he says we have to listen and follow instructions etc. but you can feel the doubt coming from the captain. Doesn't sound like a guy who is fully bought in to the new system and I wouldn't be if I was him either because there is no natural role for him in the team. He's too sloppy and weak as a CM and his physical limitations and inability to beat a man make him unsuitable as the 10.

Best player in a team that is currently 14th in the league. What an achievement. And try to respond to the post not the poster, I put the Bruno thread on ignore so I wouldn't have to listen to the morons in that thread. So keep your circlejerk about this average player in there if you don't mind.

Without him we'd be in the relegation zone he's played a role in 40% of the few goals we actually do score

 

[NLunited]

We've been told that there's no money for a rebuild. So a manager who can work with most of these players is needed.

Bingo.

 

[Mingus]

There is also little evidence that completely rebuilding the squad to suit amorim will be worth the effort

There's as much evidence as there was when we appointed him.

Whoever had taken over and whatever formation they had played, there would still not be enough athleticism and physicality in the squad to succeed in the Prem as it currently is. City have invested because Pep has said that his previous style of possession football doesn't work anymore.

Ineos decided not to react (apart from Dorgu) to address this in January, favouring making the right transfers in the Summer. We have also cut ties with Rashford and Antony without replacing them. We have no goalscoring threat from the attacking players left with Amad injured.

Amorim should get a clean slate for the next season.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Thats quite funny because if you go watch all of our games.

Forrest - scored goals by pressing us... Morgan Gibbs white
Everton pressed us quite high
West Ham under Potter are more a pressing team
Ipswhich both games were pressing us

So go have a look at that again.

They press us because they know a mistake is very likely. You don't see the small teams pressing the top teams.

Just quoting the above because I see it was kinda pointed out already...

The reason we get pressed is because we're absolutely shite at progressing the ball through our defence and midfield.

We have players in defence and in goal who lack composure/guile/decision making and athleticism and are ponderous, hence why teams alter things when up against us and press high. It's called 'flexible game management'. Not something Amorim has shown enough so far might I add.

Maybe go have a look at games not involving United to get a better view of how most teams set up most weeks.

Describing Forest as a high press/front footed team is kinda laughable. They have the lowest possession stats in the league this season. And guess which teams are 2nd and 3rd? Yeah Everton and Ipswich. These teams in generally do absolutely not high press or play on the front foot. They sit deep, concede possession and seek to win the ball back in their half before countering. That doesnt happen versus us because were fecking shit.

 

[red_de_pologne]

He’s forced to pick a team from players who should be dropped but can’t because there’s no alternative at GK, RWB, CF, CM + many of them know they’re not in his plans long term. Can’t be easy to get a tune out of them in this situation.

 

[stevoc]

Apparently the Villa press officer jumped in and said no Rashford questions during a Tieleman interview...how it should be done!

It's open season with the United press officer where everything is allowed and for as long as you wish.

Amorim should be facing No more questions about INEOS or staff redundancies fir the rest of the season.

Indeed.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Just quoting the above because I see it was kinda pointed out already...

The reason we get pressed is because we're absolutely shite at progressing the ball through our defence and midfield.

We have players in defence and in goal who lack composure/guile/decision making and athleticism and are ponderous, hence why teams alter things when up against us and press high. It's called 'flexible game management'. Not something Amorim has shown enough so far might I add.

Maybe go have a look at games not involving United to get a better view of how most teams set up most weeks.

Describing Forest as a high press/front footed team is kinda laughable. They have the lowest possession stats in the league this season. And guess which teams are 2nd and 3rd? Yeah Everton and Ipswich. These teams in generally do absolutely not high press or play on the front foot. They sit deep, concede possession and seek to win the ball back in their half before countering.

All the managers who tried slow build up from the back failed at Utd, Ole whenever he tried, ETH to some extent and now Amorim. LVG had some success on keeping possession but that was it, we had 70% of the ball but no threat in attack. About the reasons, we can only speculate, but no1 cause was the quality of the players who were mostly unsuited for this style.
Just recently we were pressed hard and had big problems against Ipswich and Soton, AT HOME, 2 of the worst team in the league.
Imagine how ineffective and risky this approach is for us, we have Onana, Maguire, De Ligt, Ugarte, Dalot, Casemiro all slow players on the ball who lack the technical ability and the movement for this type of football, it is simply not for us.

 

[romufc]

Just quoting the above because I see it was kinda pointed out already...

The reason we get pressed is because we're absolutely shite at progressing the ball through our defence and midfield.

We have players in defence and in goal who lack composure/guile/decision making and athleticism and are ponderous, hence why teams alter things when up against us and press high. It's called 'flexible game management'. Not something Amorim has shown enough so far might I add.

Maybe go have a look at games not involving United to get a better view of how most teams set up most weeks.

Describing Forest as a high press/front footed team is kinda laughable. They have the lowest possession stats in the league this season. And guess which teams are 2nd and 3rd? Yeah Everton and Ipswich. These teams in generally do absolutely not high press or play on the front foot. They sit deep, concede possession and seek to win the ball back in their half before countering. That doesnt happen versus us because were fecking shit.

This is the thing right, teams have a certain way of playing but when it comes to United, they all change and start pressing us high.

I wont lie... I dont watch Ipswich, Forrest regularly, only when they are playing the bigger teams and I have seen them press teams really well.

 

[NLunited]

All the managers who tried slow build up from the back failed at Utd, Ole whenever he tried, ETH to some extent and now Amorim. LVG had some success on keeping possession but that was it, we had 70% of the ball but no threat in attack. About the reasons, we can only speculate, but no1 cause was the quality of the players who were mostly unsuited for this style.
Just recently we were pressed hard and had big problems against Ipswich and Soton, AT HOME, 2 of the worst team in the league.
Imagine how ineffective and risky this approach is for us, we have Onana, Maguire, De Ligt, Ugarte, Dalot, Casemiro all slow players on the ball who lack the technical ability and the movement for this type of football, it is simply not for us.

The eye test says you are right. But the players should be able to progress the ball fine, if Ipswich and Everton players can do it. They are not better.

They have been instructed to take less risk I bet, which doesn‘t help with the ponderous bit.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[Ludens the Red]

All the managers who tried slow build up from the back failed at Utd, Ole whenever he tried, ETH to some extent and now Amorim. LVG had some success on keeping possession but that was it, we had 70% of the ball but no threat in attack. About the reasons, we can only speculate, but no1 cause was the quality of the players who were mostly unsuited for this style.
Just recently we were pressed hard and had big problems against Ipswich and Soton, AT HOME, 2 of the worst team in the league.
Imagine how ineffective and risky this approach is for us, we have Onana, Maguire, De Ligt, Ugarte, Dalot, Casemiro all slow players on the ball who lack the technical ability and the movement for this type of football, it is simply not for us.

Indeed. I don’t like low block counter direct football but we 100% should be playing some variation of that style right now with the players we have. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks. Even if we could go like Bournemouth, who concede a lot of the ball but are still quite attacking as they go back to front quick and push lots of men forward. That could work with us. Instead we’re faffing about with the ball through defence and midfield …

This is the thing right, teams have a certain way of playing but when it comes to United, they all change and start pressing us high.

I wont lie... I dont watch Ipswich, Forrest regularly, only when they are playing the bigger teams and I have seen them press teams really well.

Yeah they do, that’s why if you only watch United games or see anything through a United view you’d be mistaken into thinking a lot of these teams are half decent. I don’t blame you, and I think it’s quite a common misconception.
You watch our games against Ipswich and Southampton lately and genuinely you’d probably be confused as to why they’re in the bottom three. But then you’d only have to watch these teams literally about three days later when theyd be getting stuffed 5/6-0 looking like absolute shite.
For me , we’re the worse team in the league stylistically week in week out. And that’s why literally everyone looks half decent against us.

 

[tjb]

This team is night and day defensively when playing in a low block vs when asked to maintain a high line.

I think he's going to have to find a balance. I don't think its just personnel, but the pace of the league.

I actually think we can function with having once relatively slow defender ( De Ligt), but I don't think we can afford to have them on them left or right side. I actually don't think Licha helps us in this regard either. Yoro on the left looked far better than any defender we've have both offensively and defensively in this system, so there does need to be pace and aglity in both RCB and LCB roles that Licha, De Ligt nor Maguire have.

 

[united for life]

He still has a lot of tactical matters to address. To point a few:

- in the first half yesterday, we were heavily relying on dorgu’s side of the pitch. The right side with dalot is almost non-existent. We looked unbalanced.
- although garnacho and dorgu had some good moments, it sometimes looked crowded with bad positioning. Happened several times between dorgu and garna with yoro moving up the pitch at times.
- bruno having to drop back to as deep as our own box to take the ball and distribute. A CM should not drop this deep in this kind of formation. It take a lot out of the team. We supposedly have good ball playing defenders and a goal keeper good with his feet (heard that, haven’t seen anything!). Maguire, on several occasions, took up the ball, stood on it, pointed some instructions to the forwards then passed the ball to yoro.
- need to figure out the 10 positions. Garna was more of a left winger with zirkzee a 10. Is this right for this formation? Looked really unbalanced.
- need to figure out what hojlund does in this team. With this, i am not sure if it is a tactical issue or a player issue to be honest. But we play with no striker.
- the tempo is too slow. We really lack urgency. Probably a result of lack of confidence.

a lot needs to improve tactically.

 

[tjb]

You cannot legislate for the individual errors and goals we concede almost every game, sometimes 2-3 per game. Any manager would struggle against that, and our players have shown that, irrespective of the manager they have played under at Utd, they simply cannot stem the flow of catastrophic individual errors leading to goals.

I do have a great deal of sympathy for the managers as it totally throws any control you may want to exert on the game, out the window. I cannot explain why only Utd players have this tendency, more than any other team in the PL, but I guess they don't have the mental fortitude to play for this club, that's the only thing I can put it down to.

I actually think in the last 2 years, there is an explanation. I think Onana brings a layer of instability that isn't needed in any defence. Whether its his kicking, his reaction to corners and longs shots, jumping out of the goals and clearances, its just so erratic. I believe that mixture of his presence mixed with chopping and changing the defence ( due to injury and fitness), leads to increased likelihood of errors and expands the pressure on the team when we are in our own half.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

I think there's valid criticism in terms of open play creation, but set pieces shouldn't be scoffed at. We want to be good at both.

Absolutely, just some comments seems to suggest set piece goals don’t count or are beneath us.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

There is also little evidence that completely rebuilding the squad to suit amorim will be worth the effort

Buying more players that are better athletes and are more technical isn't just "suiting Amorim". Especially when it seems we are targeting top young talents, not a bunch of ex-Amorim 27 year olds.

 

[Blood Mage]

Now that we're pretty much safe from relegation I'm not arsed. I've seen nothing to suggest that we should build a team for him or that he'll be here by next Christmas though, but hey let's save a bit of money by holding off sacking him for now.

 

[Brand Nubian]

I know! Let's fire Amorim and keep the same squad, unchanged.
Then let's blame the next guy and fire him too!

Because all responsibility is on coaches, players are blameless.
It's a freaking chess out there I tell you!

The damage from ETH transfers will take at least 3 years to fix. We spent shitload of money and improved nothing, making most of it worse in the process.

Could it be a bit of both? Like, 1. ETH did incredible damage. Needs to be investigated. 2. Ruben is doing very poor job with what shite unbalanced squad he has been left to work with.

 

[JBG]

Buying more players that are better athletes and are more technical isn't just "suiting Amorim". Especially when it seems we are targeting top young talents, not a bunch of ex-Amorim 27 year olds.

Exactly this.. don't know how many times I've mentioned it here. But no matter if Amorim is here or not, we need better players and need to replace most of the current players. And the fact that the type of players Amorim wants are, better athletic and good technical players is only a good thing for us as a club.

And also, the excuse of "oh but he's getting players for 3-4-3" or whatever, doesn't work either imo. Becuase these are players that can easily slot into 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 as well.

 

[Greck]

We're not rebuilding the squad for Amorim, we're just rebuilding the squad period. Any new manager needs to improve on Onana, Hojlund and co to avoid midtable. It's also a myth Amorim is the one selling the academy products. The club already wanted to sell them. I can't find the article but it was known for months SJR wanted to move to a more ruthless model with academy products. The Amorim fallout just gave them the final excuse to prioritise the books. Then the high earners, Antony, Rashford and co were goners with or without Amorim. Any academy prospect asking for 150k plus will also join them. I'm not sure how people thought things were going to play out with private owned investment. Who did they think was going to get cut? The tea lady? Heck probably even have.

 

[lsd]

Now that we're pretty much safe from relegation I'm not arsed. I've seen nothing to suggest that we should build a team for him or that he'll be here by next Christmas though, but hey let's save a bit of money by holding off sacking him for now.

Hard to believe that's a statement we are making at this stage of a season. "Now we are pretty much safe from relegation"

Let's hope this is never happening again

 

[wolvored]

We're not rebuilding the squad for Amorim, we're just rebuilding the squad period. Any new manager needs to improve on Onana, Hojlund and co to avoid midtable. It's also a myth Amorim is the one selling the academy products. The club already wanted to sell them. I can't find the article but it was known for months SJR wanted to move to a more ruthless model with academy products. The Amorim fallout just gave them the final excuse to prioritise the books. Then the high earners, Antony, Rashford and co were goners with or without Amorim. Any academy prospect asking for 150k plus will also join them. I'm not sure how people thought things were going to play out with private owned investment. Who did they think was going to get cut? The tea lady? Heck probably even have.

Yes I remember he quoted the Chelsea model and how successful it had been

 

[Brand Nubian]

And now, after securing the ticket for next PL season, Amorim is going two footed for the rest of this training season. Attacking players on defensive positions, high press and high line. Ruben is going for it.

 

[Blood Mage]

Hard to believe that's a statement we are making at this stage of a season. "Now we are pretty much safe from relegation"

Let's hope this is never happening again

Which is why I've already seen enough. A coach at this level should not have us in this position if they have anything about them.

 

[SER19]

Absolutely, just some comments seems to suggest set piece goals don’t count or are beneath us.

I believe arsenal got 18 last season. Set pieces at both ends can genuinely be worth 10+ pts every year im amazed people don't realise their importance. In a tight game you'll still get about 6+ corners and maybe 3+ free kicks to send into box (and defend)

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Happy we got the win last night and the past 2 games it feels like the team was actually battling together to get a result. I know it was cheese but the chest bumping and fist pumping at the end was brilliant to see even in a game like this.

People saying it's embarrassing to be like we were against relegation fodder but you need to start somewhere and get the confidence off the floor. I think he managed the game really well for us and this will give him doing breathing room.

If we can get a result on Sunday then I think we might have a small modicum of momentum.

 

[Greck]

Which is why I've already seen enough. A coach at this level should not have us in this position if they have anything about them.

I mean, we were in midtable and sold/loaned his attacking options for financial reasons. Of course we were going to be in survival. We're not even done selling. The next few years will be about surviving financial efficiency and cost cutting. That's probably why they didn't care to wait till the summer. The moves suggest the hierarchy were checked out of doing anything special this season.

 

[AneRu]

Exactly this.. don't know how many times I've mentioned it here. But no matter if Amorim is here or not, we need better players and need to replace most of the current players. And the fact that the type of players Amorim wants are, better athletic and good technical players is only a good thing for us as a club.

And also, the excuse of "oh but he's getting players for 3-4-3" or whatever, doesn't work either imo. Becuase these are players that can easily slot into 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 as well.

People will always moan, can't do much about that, but the fact of the matter is that there is no player for a 4-3-3, a 4-4-2 or a 3-4-3. Lots of these players interchange positions and formations at club and international level. Look at Dorgu, for example, had he ever played a 3-4-3 before coming here?

The athletic profile of the majority of our squad was always going to be unsuitable for most of the systems being utilised by modern managers. That's why Murtough, Arnold and Ten Hag are out of a job right now. We were always going to need major surgery to address this flaw.

I also don't think that we are where we are because of Ten Hag or Amorim's incompetence, the former deserved to go and the latter has made a few mistakes too but I don't think any of them thought Hoijlund and Zirkzee would be this poor. Not having a reliable source of goals has worsened an already bad situation and I am certain, when Ineos were encouraging Amorim to push Rashford out they were promising him a replacement.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

That's why you buy players with a profile that any new manager would be happy to have. young, physical, skilled and with the right mentality.

And sell players who's favoured position doesn't exist in Amorim's very specific formation.

 

[Desert Eagle]

And sell players who's favoured position doesn't exist in Amorim's very specific formation.

I'm assuming you're talking about Bruno, we should have sold him a summer or two ago. His value is only going to tank and when you consider how much he's played the last few years, he's lucky not to have sustained a serious injury. I agree that him not having a position in Amorims system is another tick in the sell column but there were already enough reasons to sell for me.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Read this...

Seems something is cooking

 

[fergiewherearethou]

The eye test says you are right. But the players should be able to progress the ball fine, if Ipswich and Everton players can do it. They are not better.

They have been instructed to take less risk I bet, which doesn‘t help with the ponderous bit.

Contrary to some of the fans believe, we have better players that 70% of the league, we should be at least 6-7th with what we have. But we have to play to the players strengths not expose their weaknesses.

 

[Escobar]

Contrary to some of the fans believe, we have better players that 70% of the league, we should be at least 6-7th with what we have. But we have to play to the players strengths not expose their weaknesses.

But not if you consider the full picture. The club is in a huge structural mess, huge financial problems, all that influences every aspect including the first team. Then we have an injury problem, we have players with a terrible attitude, we have this 10 year legacy of being shit and drama, we have not really strengthened our team while waisting so much money, unprofessional players, etc. etc.

 

[The Mitcher]

Well spotted... sorry, I was 28 not 38 in 1974....(born in 1946 actually) ....those little grey cells must be departing quicker than I thought

All good!

 

[Desert Eagle]

But not if you consider the full picture. The club is in a huge structural mess, huge financial problems, all that influences every aspect including the first team. Then we have an injury problem, we have players with a terrible attitude, we have this 10 year legacy of being shit and drama, we have not really strengthened our team while waisting so much money, unprofessional players, etc. etc.

And the new manager came in halfway through the season when we were already in 14th. Amorims failures have been so overblown it's not even funny.

 

[GiveItToGi...nowait]

Contrary to some of the fans believe, we have better players that 70% of the league, we should be at least 6-7th with what we have. But we have to play to the players strengths not expose their weaknesses.

Pure delusion

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

They press us because they know a mistake is very likely. You don't see the small teams pressing the top teams.

We are slow to move the van l ball around and sometimes you can see our players are dallying with the ball almost waiting to be pressed. Opponents are then encouraged by this and even they press they get rewarded for it. Then i presume data analysts sees this and set their teams to press us more.
We rarely punish teams who press us, it's almost comical.

 

[Nogho]

Amorim will have a very young and exciting squad next season, with some new players, if the following changes occur during the summer. This must be INEOS' long-term plan.

If the following players leave (see below), the squad's average age will drop from 25.9 to 24.1 years. The weekly wage bill will be reduced by approximately £1,345 million. If they all depart, our wage budget will decrease to around £2,000 million. (The numbers are sourced from Capology.com and Transfermarkt.)

In my view, this would be the first true reshaping of the squad. Regarding potential transfer fees, I have estimated an amount for each player, and in total, it sums up to around £85 million. That should be enough to sign at least two to three new players (since Rashford is counted as an academy player). This would leave us with a young and fairly talented squad to build upon, especially considering that none of these players are currently at the club or in the starting lineup.

Casimero - 0
Eriksen - 0
Lindelöf - 0
Rashford - 40
Antony - 20
Malacia - 5
Heaton - 0
Sancho - 20
Evans - 0