He's been a manager for 3 months. It's really not that long. We all knew our squad was bad but I don't think we realised it was so bad and probably the new formation hasn't helped. I just hope that we see some progress right from the start of the new season, and not talking league winning form or anything like that. Otherwise knives are out.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
He's been a manager for 3 months. It's really not that long. We all knew our squad was bad but I don't think we realised it was so bad and probably the new formation hasn't helped. I just hope that we see some progress right from the start of the new season, and not talking league winning form or anything like that. Otherwise knives are out.
He isn't going to change his approach. The only thing that will change, is that Amorim will be afforded more round pegs for round holes. Until then, fans need to suck it up. Something they are doing a terrible job of doing.
That's one way to see it. I think that they are both missing the point. Rooney has a point it's naive to talk about winning the league when you are that inept and it's also the goal for everyone so you aren't saying much. Amorim also has a point in the sense that it's the goal for everyone to win the league whether United are a bit shit at the moment is irrelevant to long term goals. I don't think any of them is strictly wrong but I would say that Amorim shouldn't be the one making that kind of statements, this burden should be on Berrada's and whoever is the DoF shoulders, there is a naivety in Amorim being he is carrying his bosses' bags for no reason.
You're assuming there that changing formation will make us better. What's the basis for this assumption? Because I've seen this squad play diabolically badly in lots of different formations. And that was before Amorim belatedly did the right thing and tried to manage out the only player who regularly scored goals for us in those different formations (but was on a ludicrously expensive contract and prone to months of underperformance every season). Not to mention having to do without the only player other than Bruno who could chip in with an occasional goal from midfield (McTominay) Hence, surprise surprise, the biggest problem under Amorim is a dire shortage of goals. We've a bunch of people on here convinced that going back to a flat back four in a team without Marcus Rashford or McTominay (and currently without Amad Diallo) will turn things round and the goals will start to flow. I'd love to know why they think this will happen?
What's the point in changing it to suit a handful of players who won't be here in 12-months time?
Surely better to start working on getting the basic shape and formation right, and then adding the quality / physicality that is clearly required in key positions?
That way, say we sign a good, athletic RWB and a good, athletic CM in the Summer, they can slot right in and immediately we'll see the likes of Bruno and Ugarte (for example), who will be staying, improve as a result.
Also, I would say we have improved defensively, in open-play. Besides the inevitable Onana mistakes and set-pieces, which remain a problem, we're hard to break down.
Edit : also to add to what someone said above about managing out Rashford...also another excellent point. A manager focused on short term results would have kept Rashford and Antony, and we'd be marginally better for it this season. But then next season...same old problems again.
Normal? How often, do you see a manager play with 4 at the back? The only difference is that ours plays with a 3 (or 5 depending on how you see it).
It's not about 3 or 4 or 5 or 8, it's about religiously sticking to one thing that clearly doesn't work
They aren’t the only ones doing a terrible job then. They’re the only ones not getting paid and the only ones to garner your criticism though.
He’s a knobhead and hardly lights the world on fire but we need numbers. We’ve barely got any attackers whatsoever. Should’ve kept Antony too, despite also being shit.
We can barely fill the bench.
Which means that Mazraoui and Dalot are unsuited just as Garnacho and Antony. So from a position of all players being unsuited, you make a choice. And the choice is based on who is closer to your ideal, I imagine, and if Dalot is closer than Garnacho for a role that apparently best suits Amad (who himself had never played the role a day in his life before Amorim came) - then that says a lot about his priorities.
What is the one thing? A system that has to accommodate a lack of quality and misfits for specific roles?
The players are more used to it? The opposition don’t know that there is zero possibility of us ever mixing it up? I mean, if something isn’t working, you don’t just keep doing it because you don’t know if the alternative will work do you? You try the alternative.
We’re tangibly worse than we’ve ever been. Why are we assuming that doing the same thing will magically work? If you struggle to score goals, is it better to have an extra attacker on the pitch or an extra defender?
To get results in the short term. What is the point in getting players to adapt to it if the only way for it to work is to replace them? What has been gained?
The online fanbase does deserve criticism for their lack of patience. Sure, it might not work out for Amorim here, but you know, should we not actually allow him the chance, so we can judge that?
People talk about his achievements in Portugal like they were some sort of miracle. Yes he deserves praise for winning sporting's first title in 20 years, but in those 20 years sporting come a very close second numerous times and if they weren't second they were generally 3rd not a million miles of the top. Yes he did what many others didn't or couldn't but that doesn't make him the next Messiah.
And the Portuguese league is a whole different kettle of fish to the EPL, there is no guarantee that he will be able to adapt to that plenty of managers and players who look the bomb in weaker leagues have really struggled to adapt to the EPL.
It is a massive gamble to take, to shape a squad to a winger less system full of hybrid positions to suit a very rigid manager who so far has shown very little ability to adapt to the EPL. Suspect we will end up with a unremarkable squad full of jack of all trade players. But then it does very much look like a mid table EPL system he is trying to implement, and that is what a mid table EPL squad looks like.
They deserve criticism but the manager presiding over our worst form in a lifetime is absolved? feck me.
So the job of fans is to suck it up?
How is the squad makeup amorims fault? Look at how the squad is made up. It’s top heavy with defenders, not enough midfielders and woefully short of attacking options.
Man he literally has no options to change much, it's just 3 attackers for the rest of the season, including one winger who just recorded 50 shots without scoring and one atrocious striker, one fit midfielder, one wingback.. not a lot of wiggle room in terms of tactical changes or other tweaks to formation. There will be no progress until we get 4-5 players to replace Rashford, Antony, Sancho, Casemiro, Dalot, players in the mould of Dorgu, athletic, hungry to perform, in positions that need filling like striker, 10s, wingbacks, midfield.
Didn't they?
Amorim himself stated we will undergo a 'period of pain' having taken over a team in thirteenth position and players who couldn't care less.
It's been said. Getting back on the perch will take time.
Absolutely. The reason for that is because now is not the time to judge him. Next season sounds far more realistic a time frame to decide if there has been any progress or not. A full preseason. Various signings who fit his idea.
Steven Gerrard broke Celtic’s 9 year domination in Scotland. Therefore, great manager. Regardless of what he did in his next job.
Yes. Things aren't going to miraculously change here until we get more players on board who fit what we are trying to achieve.
You thought we would be earning less points than we did under Ten Hag? I’m going to call bullshit on that one.
A new manager can’t come in and make things worse admins escape criticism because he said it would be hard.
I'm well aware we're tangibly worse than we've ever been. I've given a reason for this. We were awful to begin with but now we've lost Rashford and McTominay's goals, as well as whatever intermittent contribution we could expect from Sancho or Antony (even if only an extra attacking option from the bench) Who are all these extra attackers being denied minutes on the pitch due to Amorim's preference for a back three?
Or, you know, a capable manager
How about he do something to improve them? What do people think a football managers job is?
I feel like next season he's going to be given a few more young players and the likes of Casemiro and Shaw will be shipped out at almost any cost. A few more Dorgus might actually start getting us up the table but not far enough to save Amorims job. As I said before this is totally on the club. You get rid of Rashford, Sancho Antony and whoever great. Where are their super professional replacements who will press and do things the way they should be? We haven't been linked with anyone apart from a 17 year old in Portugal.
It's just cost stripping for now with very very little evidence of any other plan. Let's hope Vivell has some real gems up his sleeve because what's happening here is we are being stripped back to a mid table club and then what?
It's just cost stripping for now with very very little evidence of any other plan. Let's hope Vivell has some real gems up his sleeve because what's happening here is we are being stripped back to a mid table club and then what?
But what's wrong him him being annoyed? it is easy as a pundit, you just say whatever you want, there's no repercussions for the job - Carragher literally got videoed gobbing on someone and it didn't affect his job. How does annoyance link to someone with an ego problem?
And in his first window we signed two more defenders. If there’s one thing we’ve learned about Amorim it’s that he loves defenders. He also loves subbing them on and off in every single game. Regardless of circumstance.
Are you implying Rasmus isnt enough?
I was shocked yesterday seeing a 17 year old having a bigger impact in the game rather than our starting CF.
I was double shocked when the same 17 year old lad, made a clear run, Nacho had the option of assisting and yet he did some weird heroics that led to nothing.
There are issues with this team. Deep rooted issues. And Amorim broke the rulebook to move from a very unorthodox playstyle to something very structured; this isnt working right now.
I get the frustration from people, but let's be honest we are literally paying to have 3 of our theoretical starters (salary wise) play somewhere else. It's that bad.
What if we can't bring these signings in? What then?
Yes, neither Mazraoui, Dalot, Garnacho or Antony are ideal for the wing-back role. And yes, it just so happens that Amorim has decided that Mazraoui and Dalot are more suitable than Garnacho and Antony. However, this is also a manager who views Amad as a superior fit to the four above. Quenda also. What would that tell you about his priorities?
So coaching isn't part of the equation? What makes you think that what we are seeing now will be different if you just change some players? Did this logic worked for ETH or Ole?
For now, aye?
Again, not the time to judge him.
Which suggests that Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Solskjaer, ten Hag and Amorim aren’t capable? Seems far fetched to suggest the manager is solely at fault.
Ruben should get backing from the club and patience and support from the fan base so he has space and time to build.
Why?
None of them was close to being this bad, but point taken.
I don't believe it's a single factor. It's a bad squad managed by an inept manager organised by a terrible ownership
But you act like it’s the only reason. It isn’t.
We had an attacker on the bench yesterday. The one he has to bring on shortly after half time in every game because surprise, surprise, we’re behind again.
Rashford and Antony, for all their faults, were denied minutes before they left. Why not try a youth player? It’s happened before. He chooses not to.