Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Pogue Mahone]

Yesterday was one game. It’s a continuing theme.

I just don’t see how anyone can expect things to have got better recently, considering the injuries to Amad and Mainoo and Rashford/Antony not being available, even as squad players. It’s possible they get better as the team gradually get drilled in how the manager wants them to play but that’s all undone by the attacking options being decimated. And that’s from a team who already couldn’t score enough goals!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Then play a youth player. As has happened many times in this clubs history.

Who? Other than the three youth players he’s already given a first team debut to. Which is probably the most debuts to youth players this early in his time in charge of any United manager (ever?)

EDIT: Maybe Van Gaal would run him close?

 

[The Mitcher]

You saying people expected it to be this bad isn’t an argument. It’s an outright lie.

That whole "there will be pain" quote from Amorim is now becoming some weird get out of jail free card. This is not some short term pain or the odd freak result. It's been week after week, month after month of terrible form. This is beyond what he said. Klopp's first season have some bad results whilst on a general upward trend was a bit of pain. How can relegation form be considered a bit of short-term pain?

 

[Shark]

That whole "there will be pain" quote from Amorim is now becoming some weird get out of jail free card. This is not some short term pain or the odd freak result. It's been week after week, month after month of terrible form. This is beyond what he said. Klopp's first season have some bad results whilst on a general upward trend was a bit of pain. How can relegation form be considered a bit of short-term pain?

It's becoming the new ''stand by your manager'' quote from SAF. Taken far too literally.

 

[Longshanks]

By that I mean players that can only play sit back and counter stuff. Every manager since LVG has just fallen into the same trap of having defenders who like to sit deep, and attackers who need acres of space to do their best work, so we've ended up playing more or less the same way because that's all they can do.

There is a whole world of difference between Mourinhos direct brand of low block football to Oles Mid press rapid transitions to ETH's high counter press chaos ball.

No they weren't remotely similar despite playing a similar formation. Formation is fairly irrelevant in all honesty, it's more about how you move in that formation and what you want to do with the ball and than how and when do you engage the opposition without the ball.

 

[acnumber9]

I just don’t see how anyone can expect things to have got better recently, considering the injuries to Amad and Mainoo and Rashford/Antony not being available, even as squad players. It’s possible they get better as the team gradually get drilled in how the manager wants them to play but that’s all undone by the attacking options being decimated. And that’s from a team who already couldn’t score enough goals!

If he would try something different I would cut him some slack. You can’t say I am fresh out of ideas when you have tried one idea. Even if we forget what is happening on the pitch and accept that things are just that bad, has he helped it by calling it the worst United team in history? When do we reap the benefits of the cultural reset by getting rid of players?

 

[The Mitcher]

It's becoming the new ''stand by your manager'' quote from SAF. Taken far too literally.

Those words came back to haunt us time after time.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So there is no expectations, no standards that a head coach should reach? And there is no financial consequences to this absence of standards?


Edit: Regarding the attacking players that we let go on loan, it should be known that in terms of merity payments in the PL last year the difference between 10th and 15th was 14m£. The salaries that we aren't paying are inferior to the money we are losing in the PL.

I never said that. But I think we need to be realistic about where we are is all.

I never said he was absolved of everything either. I said he should be doing better and yes there is more money to be made the higher up the league you finish. But I genuinely think a serious lack of quality across the midfield and attacking positions is the root problem.

That's a fair point, but I don't think you can take what Rashford and Antony are doing elsewhere and just apply it to us assuming it would be the same output. Rashford maybe, but extenuating circumstances probably made that decision, whereas Antony had plenty of endeavour but never showed anything consistent enough to be making a contribution to where we are now.

 

[acnumber9]

Who? Other than the three youth players he’s already given a first team debut too.

I don’t follow the youth team that closely. But it’s not my job to, it’s Amorim’s.

Who are the three and how minutes have they played?

 

[acnumber9]

So there is no expectations, no standards that a head coach should reach? And there is no financial consequences to this absence of standards?


Edit: Regarding the attacking players that we let go on loan, it should be known that in terms of merity payments in the PL last year the difference between 10th and 15th was 14m£. The salaries that we aren't paying are inferior to the money we are losing in the PL.

Not to mention the reputational damage being done with these performances week in week out.

 

[JPRouve]

I never said that. But I think we need to be realistic about where we are is all.

I never said he was absolved of everything either. I said he should be doing better and yes there is more money to be made the higher up the league you finish. But I genuinely think a serious lack of quality across the midfield and attacking positions is the root problem.

That's a fair point, but I don't think you can take what Rashford and Antony are doing elsewhere and just apply it to us assuming it would be the same output. Rashford maybe, but extenuating circumstances probably made that decision, whereas Antony had plenty of endeavour but never showed anything consistent enough to be making a contribution to where we are now.

You did when you suggested that for the time being we need to suck it up. That's what it means.

 

[red_de_pologne]

Are you being serious? Any manager worth their salt needs to make the team better than the sum of its parts. If that never happened we wouldn’t see evidence of it happening time and time again. We also wouldn’t see clubs sack managers outside of transfer windows because apparently there’d be no point. Might as well appoint somebody who plays football manager if all we need is somebody who can sign players.

I can see you have a strong opinion, but I'm convinced Amorim's appointment wasn't to get the best out of current team but to oversee a revolution in terms of playing style, profile of signings, culture at the club. He's 4 months in, with a decimated team that was in a bad state when he came in.

If you want to think we'd be fine if it was another manager in place, ok. I think regardless of the manager this club will be in deep shit for the next 2-3 years.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You did when you suggested that for the time being we need to suck it up. That's what it means.

I said for now.

 

[JPRouve]

I can see you have a strong opinion, but I'm convinced Amorim's appointment wasn't to get the best out of current team but to oversee a revolution in terms of playing style, profile of signings, culture at the club. He's 4 months in, with a decimated team that was in a bad state when he came in.

If you want to think we'd be fine if it was another manager in place, ok. I think regardless of the manager this club will be in deep shit for the next 2-3 years.

In that case why chose a manager that has ideas that do not really open all the doors to rebuild? The only way this makes sense is if one believes that he is exceptional?

 

[Ghostrider318]

Biggest worry is his refusal ( or inability ?) to play ANY other formation other than a back 5.


I know its supposed to be a back 3 but c'mon we essentially start and play games with a 5212 or 523 formation. This leaves is extremely light in midfield and opposition teams are able to reach our final third with ease. This also ends up having our wingers ( if any ) to come back and defend which leaves no chance of a counter.

I know we have a clown show of attackers and rest of the team is great, but hes had so many games to realize this formation cannot work and needs a change. I fear we will find ourselves in this position of - hire manager -> he dislikes players -> buy him his players -> still no results -> sack him -> new manager cant work with new players - cycle all over again in 2026

 

[JPRouve]

I said for now.

Why? Are standards not important right now, is the financial situation of the club not important right now?

 

[red_de_pologne]

In that case why chose a manager that has ideas that do not really open all the doors to rebuild? The only way this makes sense is if one believes that he is exceptional?

Don't understand what you mean, sorry.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Wait, people are actually trying to claim ETH used a traditional 4231 formation as proof that it’s not the system that’s an issue?

He literally spent 18 months trying to implement a ridiculous system that everyone could see wasn’t working.

The only time in the past 3 years have we used a traditional system was his first season where we finished 3rd and won a cup.

Since then it’s been 18 months of the ETH’s 41231 or whatever tf it was and 6 months of Amorim’s 532. Either side of a few games under Ruud where he went back to basics and we looked like a team again for a few weeks.

This - the whole idea that ETH failed because he played pragmatic 4-2-3-1 football is such a delusional fantasy that sometimes I wonder if everyone here actually watches our games. On the contrary, his insane setup with a zero-man midfield is the hill he chose to die on.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why? Are standards not important right now, is the financial situation of the club not important right now?

Get rid of him with what money then? I gave you a reason in my initial answer about the predicament of the club and that if it really does come down to sacking him and all the staff, the money is already tight and would be stretched even further. Then do the same bloody thing again with another manager and new staff. We've literally seen in the results recently about the cost of keeping and then sacking ETH, staff members and then Ashworth as well, but we want to do all that again?

Standards are obviously important but I gave you a genuine answer with reasons why I think in the short term, the reality of the situation dictates realistic goals for this season. I don't think Amorim is the be all and end all, but bloody hell as I listed a lot of factors including himself are contributing to where we are.

 

[JPRouve]

Don't understand what you mean, sorry.

If the club is going to be in deep shit regardless of the manager why chose a manager that has a niche setup? Instead of chosing a manager that has a more common approach that opens the door to a wider range of players and therefore allow for an easier rebuilt where you can exploit opportunities?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

That whole "there will be pain" quote from Amorim is now becoming some weird get out of jail free card. This is not some short term pain or the odd freak result. It's been week after week, month after month of terrible form. This is beyond what he said. Klopp's first season have some bad results whilst on a general upward trend was a bit of pain. How can relegation form be considered a bit of short-term pain?

This is true, some fans act as if that quote magically absolves the manager of any and all responsibility.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

His style of play is reminiscent of Van Gaal's second season. Every player seems to take 2 or more touches of the ball. If there were some redeeming factors to his football then I'd be willing to be more patient but there aren't any.

 

[Shark]

I can see you have a strong opinion, but I'm convinced Amorim's appointment wasn't to get the best out of current team but to oversee a revolution in terms of playing style, profile of signings, culture at the club. He's 4 months in, with a decimated team that was in a bad state when he came in.

If you want to think we'd be fine if it was another manager in place, ok. I think regardless of the manager this club will be in deep shit for the next 2-3 years.

Then why can so many clubs with similar or even less quality and resources outperform us time and time again? What you're basically saying is that it doesn't matter who we have coaching us until we magically get our shit together in 3 years despite little evidence that we're even on the right path. Let's just keep flirting with relegation for three years and see what happens basically.

 

[Insanity]

This - the whole idea that ETH failed because he played pragmatic 4-2-3-1 football is such a delusional fantasy that sometimes I wonder if everyone here actually watches our games. On the contrary, his insane setup with a zero-man midfield is the hill he chose to die on.

We seem to have followed on that trend. Our defense plays deep while our midfield pushes up. We are seeing similar problems again with the opposition finding it easy to get at our defense.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

If the club is going to be in deep shit regardless of the manager why chose a manager that has a niche setup? Instead of chosing a manager that has a more common approach that opens the door to a wider range of players and therefore allow for an easier rebuilt where you can exploit opportunities?

I'll go one step further, why even have a manager in the first place?

There's a nice cost savings opportunity for INEOS right there. SJR if you're reading, please PM me and I'll send you the wire details for my consultancy fee.

 

[pocco]

Biggest worry is his refusal ( or inability ?) to play ANY other formation other than a back 5.


I know its supposed to be a back 3 but c'mon we essentially start and play games with a 5212 or 523 formation. This leaves is extremely light in midfield and opposition teams are able to reach our final third with ease. This also ends up having our wingers ( if any ) to come back and defend which leaves no chance of a counter.

I know we have a clown show of attackers and rest of the team is great, but hes had so many games to realize this formation cannot work and needs a change. I fear we will find ourselves in this position of - hire manager -> he dislikes players -> buy him his players -> still no results -> sack him -> new manager cant work with new players - cycle all over again in 2026

I was at the game yesterday and we were in a 442 in many different periods of the game, sometimes something more resembling maybe a diamond type shape. It was 4atb with one CB or WB pushed on (this seemed to alternate), and it was a pretty fluid system as the shape was changing a bit. It's not the first time I've seen this either.

 

[quadrant]

I honestly wonder where a lot of our fans spent the last few years. Hopefully somewhere nice. Because they sure as hell weren't watching us pull in a meagre 57 goals last season or 58 the season before. Or 57 the season before that. Or for that matter the 8 goals in 9 games the last manager managed at the start of the season before getting sacked.

Our attack has been absolutely diabolical for a long time now, and that's with a hell of a lot more attacking options than Amorim is working with at the moment. But people think this new fangled formation is to blame? Baffling.

 

[JPRouve]

Get rid of him with what money then? I gave you a reason in my initial answer about the predicament of the club and that if it really does come down to sacking him and all the staff, the money is already tight and would be stretched even further. Then do the same bloody thing again with another manager and new staff. We've literally seen in the results recently about the cost of keeping and then sacking ETH, staff members and then Ashworth as well, but we want to do all that again?

Standards are obviously important but I gave you a genuine answer with reasons why I think in the short term, the reality of the situation dictates realistic goals for this season. I don't think Amorim is the be all and end all, but bloody hell as I listed a lot of factors including himself are contributing to where we are.

We have the money to get rid of him, it won't cost 10m. The main financial risk is to not be 4 or 5 spot higher that required which is going to cost around 15m and 20m in the PL and anywhere between 15m and 80m for continental competitions.

In Football the immediate cash is in prize money. Sucking it up is by far the dumbest strategy which is why no successful club follow it since it will cost you dozens of millions instantly. And yes, if the manager doesn't match short term standards you get rid and try someone else, that's what every decent club do.

 

[red_de_pologne]

If the club is going to be in deep shit regardless of the manager why chose a manager that has a niche setup? Instead of chosing a manager that has a more common approach that opens the door to a wider range of players and therefore allow for an easier rebuilt where you can exploit opportunities?

I don't know, because INEOS are clueless?

Then why can so many clubs with similar or even less quality and resources outperform us time and time again? What you're basically saying is that it doesn't matter who we have coaching us until we magically get our shit together in 3 years despite little evidence that we're even on the right path. Let's just keep flirting with relegation for three years and see what happens basically.

The pressure playing here, the amount of attention and scrutiny players receive and the horrible morale around the whole club have to do more with it than you think. Anyway, do you have any other idea? The club finances dictate what will happen, not the manager. We can't spend our way out of this mess.

 

[Vault Dweller]

We have the money to get rid of him, it won't cost 10m. The main financial risk is to not be 4 or 5 spot higher that required which is going to cost around 15m and 20m in the PL and anywhere between 15m and 80m for continental competitions.

In Football the immediate cash is in prize money. Sucking it up is by far the dumbest strategy which is why no successful club follow it since it will cost you dozens of millions instantly. And yes, if the manager doesn't match short term standards you get rid and try someone else, that's what every decent club do.

So you don’t accept any of the reasons I listed for him struggling then. Fair enough.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

We seem to have followed on that trend. Our defense plays deep while our midfield pushes up. We are seeing similar problems again with the opposition finding it easy to get at our defense.

It's very frustrating. Midfield control is key to success in the PL, yet the club and multiple managers have mostly neglected it over the years, both in terms of personnel and tactics.

 

[JPRouve]

So you don’t accept any of the reasons I listed for him struggling then. Fair enough.

I don't accept any of them for the question I asked which wasn't about why he is struggling.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't know, because INEOS are clueless?

Okay, if that's true do you understand why people may have no faith Amorim and not look at his bad start positively?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don’t follow the youth team that closely. But it’s not my job to, it’s Amorim’s.

Who are the three and how minutes have they played?

You know the three, surely? Two of them played in yesterday’s match. And I can’t be arsed researching their minutes. Although I will say the youth team debutant with the most minutes under Amorim is currently… you guessed it… injured.

 

[Grande]

I haven't really hung him out to dry, seems a huge exaggeration based on this post:


It remains my opinion if you play 3 at the back, the WBs need to be wingers. We had many more wingers when he came and the only one we ever saw there was Amad, who was generally better there as he is a natural RW. The entire point of this setup is width/having offensive players in wide areas (whether they overlap or come inside) and yet the bulk of what we have seen is Dalot/Maz who then get slated because they generally come undone as soon as they are in attacking areas.

I agree with you about wingers as as WB’s and looking at Amorim’s choices at Sporting, it seems he does so too. If I understood correctly, he started out with FBs as WB’s, but as soon has he found/brought in candidates, he opted for wingers retrained to those roles.

At United, it was only natural to start out with Dalot and Mazraoui to get the defensive security in place first, and given that Shaw and Malacia was out (indeterminately).

If he should then proceed to try to convert some wingers to WBs, the options were Amad, Rashford, Garnacho and Antony.

He did this with Amad and got a promising response. Unfortunately, Amad also seemed to be a necessary cndidate for the no10 spots, given the issues there. Now he’s out either way.

Antony delivered a bit of this and that, and was no worse at WB than at inside forward and previously at wing. His issue is physicality and confidence, and now he’s loaned out.

Rashford and Garnacho are quite similar, in that they are very much forward, very much wide player. Amorim’s 3-4-3 needs wingers who can also be trusted defensively, and forwards who thrive centrally/cutting in. Rashford and Garnacho are both weak in both these aspects, which is to say they are a bit one dimensional specialist type players. They both were challenges to work on their play styles to ameliorated one of these weaknesses at least. It seems Garnacho was willing to do this, Rashford was not.

Garnacho has hardly been used as a WB, and my guess about that is that it must mean his weaknesses and/or his willingness to adapt to the defensive demands of a WB role just leaves too much to be desired compared to players like Quenda, Nuno Santos, Amad or Antony.

I think many of United’s on paper best players would fit a 3-4-3 like this: De Ligt, Martinez, Ugarte, Casemiro, Shaw, Bruno, Mazraoui, Mount and Amad should all fit it well. Unfortunately, 4 of those are out injured and one has declined heavily.

Rasshford and Garnacho are the odd ones out, unfortunately both in the same position. As a result, we are weak in both WB options and 10 options, and the WB options left are defensive with little to contribute as wingers, and the last option is a 20 year old new to the league newcomer who can’t expect to do much heavy lifting this season.

Attacking wise, I don’t think we’ll see much improvement until next season, and even that is probably dependent on a new midfielder/no10 and a new striker.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't accept any of them for the question I asked which wasn't about why he is struggling.

Your initial question of why? Or about finances?

 

[Shark]

I don't know, because INEOS are clueless?



The pressure playing here, the amount of attention and scrutiny players receive and the horrible morale around the whole club have to do more with it than you think. Anyway, do you have any other idea? The club finances dictate what will happen, not the manager. We can't spend our way out of this mess.

Plenty of other clubs have to deal with this but still don't sink as depressingly low as we have these past two seasons. I'm not sure the pressure is even there anymore either seeing as we've been woeful for over a decade now.

 

[acnumber9]

I can see you have a strong opinion, but I'm convinced Amorim's appointment wasn't to get the best out of current team but to oversee a revolution in terms of playing style, profile of signings, culture at the club. He's 4 months in, with a decimated team that was in a bad state when he came in.

If you want to think we'd be fine if it was another manager in place, ok. I think regardless of the manager this club will be in deep shit for the next 2-3 years.

I’m convinced nobody expected this. And if anybody had foreseen it, he wouldn’t have been appointed.

 

[acnumber9]

You know the three, surely? Two of them played in yesterday’s match. And I can’t be arsed researching their minutes. Although I will say the youth team debutant with the most minutes under Amorim is currently… you guessed it… injured.

I know about Heaven and Chido. I don’t know who the other you mean is. One made his debut yesterday. They’ve played 104 minutes between them. I wouldn’t say he’s gone to the well too much.

 

[Fenômeno]

Problem is do we trust him with a significant squad overhaul? I have my doubts, but what makes it really risky is that he plays a specific system that it won't be easy to transition into a more 'normal' back 4 formation if he fails and we would have spent millions in the process, then we are back a few steps where we have to sell his system players and buy new players for the new manager. Seems to be a vicious cycle.