Laughing stock is what Amorim has turned us into. We can't win even 5 games in a row. This squad can't win 5 games in a row. We need new players to achieve 5 win on a bounce
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
- Thread starter sewey89
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
4th - 8th Finish Squad?
Our forward line isn't even top 10 before we loaned Rashford & Antony who offer the square root of F all.
All better Front 3s:
Liverpool - Diaz - Jota - Salah
Arsenal - Martinelli - Havertz - Saka
Forest - Hudson Odoi - Wood - Elanga
City - Doku - Haaland - Savinho
Chelsea - Neto - Jackson - Palmer
Newcastle - Gordon - Isak - Murphy
Bournemouth - Semenyo - Outtara - Tavernier
Brighton - Mitoma - Pedro - Minteh
Villa - Malen - Watkins - Bailey
Brentford - Schade - Wissa - Mbuemo
Palace - Eze - Mateta - Sarr
Spurs - Son - Solanke - Johnson
West Ham - Bowen - Kudus - Only 2 due to formation change but both walk into this team.
I didn't include Fulham, as I don't see there overall quality as much better than ours, they work more collectively.
There are also multiple players from even the relegation teams that improve us, yes Amorim should be doing better but lets not kid ourselves how crap our forwards are, haven't even gone into midfield or defence.
already debated it in depth in this thread, can't be bothered..
in short ,the squad is NOWHERE NEAR top 6 in terms of balance, depth, ability, mentality.
Breathe mate. Bloody 'ell.
In which league?
No no, that's not his this works. Good results are down to Amorim, bad results to the squad
It really, really isn't. You don't make top 8 with no striker of PL quality, a goalkeeper that consistently drops clangers, and one midfielder fit for purpose.
So in your opinion, who should have been applauded for our FA Cup win of last season? Answer me that..
If its players to be applauded then, they cant be they have turned so shit to relegation form in 8 months.
If its ETH, then why was he sacked to get a manager who can't win the same FA Cup or even reach the final. Which ETH did in succession by the way.
As you can see its a combination of both. Good players 'manufacture' good managers, and good managers make good players.
Liverpool players have 'made' Slot a very good manager if he wins the EPL. If Slot was in Netherlands we wouldn't have known if he would won a EPL title and he wouldn't be in any conversation.
And Slot has made Liverpool players to be very good players above everyone else in EPL thats why they will be the players with EPL medal.
Modern Man United fan mind.
I think we should be studied as a social experiment for how a football team makes one think.
I mean kind of ... but United finished 8th last season, with this goalkeeper, with Hojlund, with Rashford and Antony having poor seasons, and so forth.
So again, i ask....
So this poor squad, of low quality with zero performers was able to win at Etihad and get a draw at Anfield. For the first time in over 4 years in one season we were able to get 4 points at Anfield & Etihad ( Jan 2021 (draw against Liverpool)& March ( 2-0 win at Etihad- 2021)
So the question is, how comes we can get such results with very good performances from those away games with this squad, while we wouldn't with previous strong squad in last 4 years?
So was it Amorim brilliance or Players brilliance we got good results against City and Liverpool?
If its Amorim brilliance why cant he replicate those performances in all other games.
If its players, then Amorim has never showed anything for us. Because bar those City & Liverpool games we haven't played very good anywhere else.
In short, you can not cherry-pick good performances to be Amorim factor and bad performances to be squad failures...
This seems an issue of semantics.
When I think of squad quality, I am thinking of some inherent qualities and base levels. The individual's performance over the course of a season is something separate: form. The distinction is important because quality is separate from the manager's ability, whereas form isn't.
True. We managed to squeeze out a lot of narrow and late wins last season, which just isn't happening now. If I'm not mistaken we overperformed our xG results last season, and are underperforming now.
Still, knowing the quality of the league this year, I would bet against any manager getting top 8 with this group of players, if we were to start over again. I feel like so many teams that have previously been considered midtable have genuine quality now. Newcastle, Forest, Bournemouth, Villa, and even Brentford and Palace to some extent are pretty good now.
Another defeat tonight and he’s in trouble. Has to be. He’s done the square root of feck all since he’s arrived and sticking with a system that suits maybe 2 players we have. It’s utter madness to persist with it, but he has and we would be relegated were it not for the 3 bottom sides.
Wrong decision to appoint him and that is plain to see, but now we can see his system isn’t cutting it in the league, sticking with him is another mistake.
Wrong decision to appoint him and that is plain to see, but now we can see his system isn’t cutting it in the league, sticking with him is another mistake.
Why?
I was specifically talking about new manager bounce, but:
This has been addressed by pretty much everyone, players raising their game putting in extra effort in big matches, also vs Liverpool, City and Arsenal we have sat a lot deeper and did not try to force the game, we were also under dogs in those games which took a lot of pressure off.
So again, i ask...
Hojlund and Garnacho scoring 17 goals between them is it because they are world beaters or because they played in a good system or luck or something else we dont know.
But If, they were world beaters then they can't have turned dog-shit in 8 months. Read having poor squad, poor strikers etc narrative...
And if they play in poor system now then it means ETH system was best for them and Amorim setup is handbraking them..
So answer your questions.. who to blame for Garnacho and Hojlund not scoring 17 PL goals? Their own quality limitations or system limitations?
So if its players induced the results at Anfield and Etihad
THEN WHAT HAS AMORIM ACHIEVE FOR US....
because the few happy performances we've got are players raising their game.(you have said it yourself.)
Get my logic please...
The good performances we've had is Players induced, then what has Amorim brought to us then?
And also, it BEATS THE NARRATIVE we have a poor squad or players..
BECAUSE you have said it yourself Players raised their game to win at Etihad and get a draw at Anfield.
So we agree we have a SQUAD CAPABLE OF RAISING its game to get results against top team, right...
You get the double speak..
When we get results its players raising their game.
When we get beaten it is we have poor players and squad.
I actually think getting out of Europe might be a good thing for the short term, next season we don't play in EU, which means only domestic schedule, and more time on the training pitch.
Obviously I don't want to see us lose any game in any competition and I would rather us go as deep as possible in the EL and even try to win it, but I get why some folks would think a season without European football might be a good thing for this team.
Højlund's form is also clearly impacted by his confidence. He got almost all of his PL goals last season in one purple patch, where a few things fell kindly for him, and he really got going. Now he is totally empty on confidence and playing in a team that doesn't perform well overall. He has a severe lack of ability, but is also in bad form.
Garnacho is just a super erratic finisher. Arrives at a ton of chances, and needs a lot of them to score goals.
And it's not like these two players were performing well with ETH before he got the sack this season. I believe they got one PL goal each before Ruud stepped in.
^^^ Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.
People also conveniently forget that United was terrible to start the season under Ten Hag. When was the last time United had a team where not one player was considered a top 50 player in the world? top 100 player in the world? This team is just filled with overpaid mediocrity. ETH spent all of that money on mediocre players. Would any of United's players start for Liverpool or City? That just shows the lack of quality throughout the squad and it can't be fixed overnight.
I don't know if Amorim is capable of making this team competitive, even if he gets a summer window and some good players that fit his system, I don't see anything since his arrival that gives me hope, however, I still think it's true that we have a set of mediocre players who lack basic quality to do simple things, even our best player Bruno, who I think is carrying the team, has his own issues, so the rest of the team is really nothing to write home about.
Is he falling into the same trap as as ETH ( witrh Antony) with Dallot. Both are Portugese, so he plays Dallot. Kamason is 10 times the player Dallot is and can't get a game
Garnacho's goals and assists happened primarily in the first part of the season. After that he's had a conflict with Amorim and the club tried to sell him in the winter transfer market. His almost non-existent production since is surely unrelated.
And hire who? Rince & repeat the same failing process over & over again. He might not be the answer but no manager can fix this shit that's for sure.
ETH damaged the reputation of brazilian head coaches.
Show me you thought so last season. The popular opinion was that 8th place was a terrible finish, despite crippling injuries.
I‘m pointing out the discrepancy between last and this season. Our attack wasn‘t performing well either.
And, I think this squad can do better, based on last year‘s performances and on incoming players this season.
The severe overhyping of academy players, because our first team squad is poor might be one of my least favorite aspects of our current situation.
This is literally what every normal club does. They go through managers on average every two to three years. Stop pining for an Alex Ferguson/Busby figure, they are exceptions. United fans need to get it into their heads that the managers are not bigger than the clubs and are just as expendable as they view the players to be. It is normal to go through managers. Sometimes it might be even be necessary to go through several until the right ones are picked.
Why’s there this idea that there’s no manager out there capable of doing better than Amorim has done/can do better in the future? Just because you cannot pluck a name out doesn’t mean there isn’t any. You assume the clubs have a huge database in detail about every coach, guys we probably haven’t heard of. When we sign players they often turn out to be crap, does that mean we stop signing players? No, you go again and find better.
Antony is Brazilian, not Portuguese.
So to get you right.
Even last season Garnacho and Hojlund scoring 17 goals they were mediocre?
This season Garnacho and Hojlund having 5 goals, they are still mediocre..
So Garnacho and Hojlund have turned into prime mediocre in 8 months or the environment has turned them mediocre.
Also, if our young players are mediocre in scoring 17 goals between them, now they're scoring 5 goals between then, who is to blame for this drop.
And the opposite of it...
How come ETH was able to extract 17 goals between our mediocre players but Amorim is able to extract 5 goals only from them..
It's not overhyping. It's we need to look at where our weeknesses are and addressing them. We can address them by buying (if we have funds) or looking at what we have in the youth. I follow all our youth teams and Kamason is one of the best prospects
Again, as I keep saying, the club is sacking off free lunches for staff to save a small amount of money.
A bad end to the season and finishing between 13th and 16th without a trophy would be a disaster and result in a huge drop in revenue.
Agree with most of this. Garnacho is only 20 ffs. He needs help, support and guidance like Ronaldo, Rooney, Scholes, Neville had under Fergie. This environment isn't great for development.
I think with an in form Rashford and playing purely counter attacking football top 6 would be a possibility but what’s the point? We need to move away from that, and Ten Hag doubled down on it from his second season onwards which is another reason it was pointless continuing with him.
Obviously if Amorim gets sacked so be it, the results are terrible, but we need to stick with the possession football and sign some players that suit it regardless of who the manager is.
Obviously if Amorim gets sacked so be it, the results are terrible, but we need to stick with the possession football and sign some players that suit it regardless of who the manager is.
Absolutely, yes.
How come ETH was only able to extract 3 goals from them in 9 Premier League games this season?
How come ETH was able to extract 17 league goals from Rashford in 22/23, but then only 7 in 23/24? Did ETH purposefully turn Rashford mediocre from one season to the next?!
No opinion on Kamason, but 10 times the player Dalot is? A portugese international. You must be having a laugh.
football is ever changing and evolving. what works one season might not work the next. it’s clear we move the ball too slowly, we run too slowly and every other team in the league doesn’t. we’re only not bottom because the level of our players is high enough to get us out of trouble often enough to scrape enough points together to beat the teams who have been assembled on a shoestring.
amorim wants us to play similarly to how psg played yesterday. you can maybe blame him that he hasn’t managed to get through to the players, but i don’t think you can say his system or the type of football he wants to play isn’t how modern football is currently. we’re shite because of decades of mismanagement.
amorim isn’t an instant fix for that. no manager is. the issue is if amorim has lost all belief from the players that will end up being here long term, and if results are good enough to give him the opportunity to get the right players in. and we’re not talking the right players for his system, we’re talking the right players for premier league football 2024/2025 and beyond.
It absolutely is overhyping. You've never seen Kamason in a first team game against grown-up opposition, because he's never played in one. It's Football Manager brain to assume he can just be plugged in and perform.
We can agree that Dalot isn't great, but at least he is available and has good physical ability to cover his side of the pitch. He's got experience and has played many games with the rest of the defenders. Putting in an 18 year old with no PL experience and no games with the rest of the backline is not solving anything.