Yikes. Sorry mate
I don't know the difference, I've never watched a full 90 minutes in my life
Some absolute fecking dick sacks on here these days.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
Yikes. Sorry mate
I don't know the difference, I've never watched a full 90 minutes in my life
Some absolute fecking dick sacks on here these days.
I honestly am not 100 percent sure what he's saying. Is he saying getting into the cl won't affect who we can attract?
Brilliant post. Spot on.
I think anyone holding out hope for another rebuild on the scale that Ten Hag was allowed to do will be sorely disappointed. I doubt the club has another £600m to spunk over the next 2-3 windows.
It's really odd. Like they suddenly expect the likes of Hojlund, Garnacho and Zirkzee to become levels better than what they've ever shown, or that Casemiro rolls back the years.
They don't give up the money. They just announce it as a mutual concent. Someone has to initiate the move and managers rarely do that as they wait for the club to make the decisions. How they present it to the publis is meaningless.
Spot on
I feel both parties are in for the long haul. Amorim is totally committed to proving himself at United, and INEOS will give him the time and space to do so. I wasn’t one of those fanboys swooning when Amorim first joined the club, but I get the feeling if we back him he might just be the guy to deliver 21.
What you are describing is buying out the contact.
We keep thinking we are the great Manchester United from 20 years ago, and we're not. The only teams ahead of us with a worse squad in the league are probably Fulham and Palace. We have a lot of players who can't make simple passes, don't know where to run, don't know how to press, have 0 football IQ, and are not physical enough to win a single duel.
Isn't it a possibility to simply ask what I mean?
@Castia I agree with your statement, I just think it is odd to say something about the necessity of certain profiles for certain positions and then appearing to not know the difference between fullback and wingback. Especially since this is one of the buzz words on here for at least 3 month. I thought it was ironic. No need to get personal.
@Hammondo No, I don't say that it won't have any effect, I think that the extent of this effect is overstated in here. Lets face it, had we lost today, this thread would be even more active and there would be posts saying that the manager is putting our transfer window at risk by not winning the competition.
When exactly have we reached that next level in the last 10 years is love to know? If anything it’s been a steady decline
Love this, great post.
The lack of dribbling ability in our team is staggering. There's hardly anyone who can beat a man in tight spaces and get away from them to cause problems. Amad can do and to an extent mainoo can but he does not have the running power to drive through their midfield after taking them on
If you look at modern football the best teams have players who can past people and get the defense running back, the Madrid derby the other day was the perfect example, all three goals were caused by driving past players at pace with the ball under control and getting a clear shot away or by tight dribbling in dangerous areas. We just don't have that profile at all, Antony, Sancho were supposed to be our defence unlockers but look how that's turned out.
To be honest my biggest issue isn't the system, the lack of players 'suited' for him etc and things that aren't really in his control. It's what he 'should' be able to do in my opinion. On a base level, whilst he has given opportunities to younger players, generally puts the right players available on the pitch and subs, he hasn't really raise or improved any one player's game consistently.
I'm glad he's sidelining or managing minutes for players like Garnacho (discipline/tactical), Eriksen/Lindelof (ageing, non-physical), Casemiro/Rashford (financial). I like that he talks the right things, has a preference for Mainoo, Martinez, Yoro, Amad over others etc and wants to play in a more progressive way in the long term. However, why is it with 3 x CBs, 2 x CMs and 2 x 10s do we still have gaping holes in the middle? Why do we do half hearted press and low block lines? I understand he doesn't have Rio and Vidic at the back and Ronaldo and Rooney up front but he really needs to drill it into the players either off the pitch or during the game to play a higher line and press more cohesively. We should be having a lot of passing options to help facilitate the build up play but everyone is too rigid. When it happens once, twice or 5 times, you can blame the players but when it's dozens of games, the manager has to take his fair shame of responsibility for not adapting/raising the bottom level.
I empathise when players like Dalot can't play a first time cross for a very high chance goal scoring opportunity or when Garnacho misses a 1-on-1 chance but the football in general is still low level bad. Sure we have better shape and defend a bit better compared to under ETH but it's all surface level improvements.
I think he should absolutely get the summer and next year but it's mostly based on hope for me even though on paper he's doing the right things.
One of the best videos i have seen on Amorim tactics.
Needs to start going more attacking. To negative… we ain’t winning games
We just don’t have smart enough or brave enough players. We have players who play it safe to often and always go back. We don’t have passers who can play it through the lines especially since Martinez is out.
I couldn't find your original post.
Um I guess it's fair to see we struggle to attract already, winning this won't affect it much.
You came out on the attack because I said full back instead of wing back like it was a crime although it made no argument to the point I was making. Just nit-picking for the sake of it
This system works a lot better if we have players who are brave on the ball. We need passers and technical players for this system. We have players who don’t have high football intelligence and play it safe far to often. I’m looking forward to the summer and seeing how we can improve this team.
Agreed, Hojlund is offering literally nothing positive and his lack of impact hinders the side. Bringing off Garnacho but keeping him on is ridiculous. Ask the opposition who they'd rather play against and it would be unanimously Hojlund.
Garnacho causes problems to the defence and at least tries to make things happen and in a team starving for goals we need more of that than less of it. Hojlund just makes us predictable and easily contained. I would rather we play someone else as a false 9 and add a body to midfield or something, perhaps Zirkzee up top with Eriksen at 10 or Cas and Ugarte in middle and Bruno at 10.
Well yes, that is obvious but I've already taken that into consideration. It still doesn't excuse Amorim being able to show, tell or coach the current players to do things better than what they are already showing. You can't just say 'play better, press higher, be more brave, be more attacking' (like Ole did), you need to actually have the ability to get the players to it. There are a lot of straight forward changes or tweaks that he can tell the players to do imo.
I do have faith in that he can bring the right players. I like Dorgu despite his rawness, I'd like Quenda and other midfield reinforcements but that's not the issue here. He needs to show he can get a raise out of players outside of ideals. I'm being harsh perhaps but he's got to either realise this sooner or show it for his own sake.
We lack technical players, we have never been a club that values technical ability as much as we should hy, and now we have very little.
I don't disagree with you that Amorim's showing his limitations.
I have lost all faith in the Amorim experiment, and I have been vocal about it too, but I can understand his difficulties to some extent.
Part of the reason why his box midfield doesn't work is the lack of physicality we have. Take someone like Zirkzee who's currently playing as one of the 10s. He simply lacks the pace and power to get behind the ball on defensive transitions and ahead of it on offensive transitions. His limitations as an athlete always mean he's going to be slow getting out and getting back in. Invariably that leaves gaps to play into.
We have too many players like that, who lack the required level of pace and power, meaning it generally only takes a couple of wall passes or a progressive carry to tear apart our defensive structure. The bulk of our players literally can't keep up with Amorim's approach.
But that is where my real frustration with Amorim comes from. Because it's clear now that this is not something you can just teach. It's the same as Villas Boas trying to make the muscle memory of what was fundamentally a Mourinho spine disappear. No amount of training was going to make John Terry into the centre back Villas Boas wanted. You can say the same for any number of United players and Amorim.
As a good coach he will have known very quickly that the bulk of these players cannot do what he wants. Doggedly sticking at it is like banging his head against the brick wall. It's led to some of the ugliest, most uninspiring football United have played in 40 years. And it's not doing anything but destroying the confidence of our squad in Amorim and themselves.
The performances basically look the same as they did when we had everyone fit and available
Great post, can some more people listen to this guy ^
That's not what that means.
So you don't think a 5 week preseason will turn things around?
Just joking.
We need 4-7 new players, which we can't afford.
Yes, I don't disagree. My particular issue is more specific in that yes he doesn't have the right players but surely he can improve them or provide them with a platform to some sort of a middle ground to get them to where he wants.
In my opinion, there a lot of 'quick wins' that he really should be implementing that are overlooked or that he's unaware of. I understand not wanting Maguire to play a high line but surely you can tell him to move the ball faster across the back line? Why is it that every single time one of our 3 centre backs get pressed or fronted by an opposition player, the ball almost always go back to Onana? Surely he can tell to them take a touch, dribble with it and/or tell our WBs and MF to recognise this and offer short options or for a ball over the top (like we did today)? Why do we never challenge on the 2nd, 3rd or 4th ball? Always attacking the 1st and getting done on touch? Why can't we put first time balls in?
Either 1) he's extremely tolerant of these players making these choices, 2) he told them repeatedly and they are not doing what he wants or 3) he's not recognising this, all three which are extremely problematic.
Our general approach play is basically a slightly better version of the end of Ole and ETH tenures, which was basically 'here's the team line ups, have a go and let's see'. It's such a low bar for me to really see any positives atm.
Another staff member for the sack 
Thanks, interesting to watch.
That first minute is what I’ve been saying for ages, said it in another thread tonight as we kicked off… “pass quicker”. We roll the ball across the back line and opponents can run at roughly the same speed so we don’t create space… hit the thing!
I think Yoro can do what Sporting defenders did, not sure about other first team CHs…maybe de Ligt? Heaven looked capable in sub cameo the other week. Maguire has to go, slow in defending, slow in speed of pass. Not sure Onana fits model either.. painfully slow and predictable with passing.
I wonder why we pass to WBs so often now, maybe it’s a short term tactic until we get new/ promoted defenders?
A goalie, a CH, a RWB, a passing CM and a 9. Quenda seems to be the rumour (though not sure what happens to Kamason) and as we have little cash, most/all the rest from academy? (Kukonki, Heaven, one of several MFers we have, Ibragimov, Chido).
Been saying this . Our first phase of play is terrible which means , opposition doesn't need to do anything. Leave that 3 defenders with the ball and just do a half press. We are done !
Quiet a few.. I'm happy with the 3 CBs we can field, LWB, 2 CDMs in Bruno and Ugarte, right 10 in Amad, maybe survive with Onana for another window, so that's 8 starters.. Get 3 players in like a Quenda at
RWB, say a Cunha or even an Angel Gomes (for example) as the left 10, and a striker up front and the team is significantly transformed.. That would be a great start as a first summer window.
Yes, CB are absolutely crucial in this model. But not only.
At the first defensive line, you have players who can play central position (I would bet De Ligt will end up dominating this spot) but it's normal most of the defenders are not comfortable yet with this system and first contruction phase. Yoro will grow, Mazraoui is trustable playing as an exterior CB, Lisandro will adapt but with the injury you'll need to sign a left-footed CB, who's a playmaker from behind. I'm going against what I want, but Inacio is really good on the ball. Maybe there are other players like that on the market, cheaper, but I'm not sure who.
Playing on the wings, Dorgu has potencial, Amass might grow with time, Dalot and Mazraoui are ok solutions for "defensive WB" but you'll need to decide: or Diallo plays as a wing-back, and in that case you'll need a left-footed nº10/interior winger, or Diallo plays as a interior winger, and you'll need a left-footed wing-back, very skilled on 1x1, driblling and acceleration and speed. Quenda is a kind of obvious solution, also because he can play both inside and outside.
In the midlefield, I would say United needs two players (DM and CM) but maybe there's only money for one, so I would favor DM. Ugarte and Mainoo staying and Bruno and Mount can play there if needed.
In the interior creative areas, Bruno and Mount are good solutions, Zirkzee we'll see but you need a top player for those between the lines areas. A Trincao alike, but better player than Trincao.
For the striker spot, Hojlund can stay in the squad but you do need a "special" ST. Who knows who.
So 1 LCB, 1 DM, 1 left-footed winger (interior or exterior) and 1 ST - 4 signings would change the team a lot.
Some sales, specially Garnacho, might help fuel the budget for this.
At the first defensive line, you have players who can play central position (I would bet De Ligt will end up dominating this spot) but it's normal most of the defenders are not comfortable yet with this system and first contruction phase. Yoro will grow, Mazraoui is trustable playing as an exterior CB, Lisandro will adapt but with the injury you'll need to sign a left-footed CB, who's a playmaker from behind. I'm going against what I want, but Inacio is really good on the ball. Maybe there are other players like that on the market, cheaper, but I'm not sure who.
Playing on the wings, Dorgu has potencial, Amass might grow with time, Dalot and Mazraoui are ok solutions for "defensive WB" but you'll need to decide: or Diallo plays as a wing-back, and in that case you'll need a left-footed nº10/interior winger, or Diallo plays as a interior winger, and you'll need a left-footed wing-back, very skilled on 1x1, driblling and acceleration and speed. Quenda is a kind of obvious solution, also because he can play both inside and outside.
In the midlefield, I would say United needs two players (DM and CM) but maybe there's only money for one, so I would favor DM. Ugarte and Mainoo staying and Bruno and Mount can play there if needed.
In the interior creative areas, Bruno and Mount are good solutions, Zirkzee we'll see but you need a top player for those between the lines areas. A Trincao alike, but better player than Trincao.
For the striker spot, Hojlund can stay in the squad but you do need a "special" ST. Who knows who.
So 1 LCB, 1 DM, 1 left-footed winger (interior or exterior) and 1 ST - 4 signings would change the team a lot.
Some sales, specially Garnacho, might help fuel the budget for this.
We played a lot better today, getting the ball forward quickly.
Decision making up front is still poor.
Becker made the pass on Oscarsson that Dalot should have made on Hojlund. Just whip the fecking ball in there ffs.
That bs penalty changed the game, we were much the better side up to that point.
Why is the caf losing its cookies? Has the tide turned and Amorim can‘t do anything right?
Decision making up front is still poor.
Becker made the pass on Oscarsson that Dalot should have made on Hojlund. Just whip the fecking ball in there ffs.
That bs penalty changed the game, we were much the better side up to that point.
Why is the caf losing its cookies? Has the tide turned and Amorim can‘t do anything right?
A very interesting video, thank you.
Let's admit that this video shows us the basis of Amorim's game, from where our game begins, that is to say phase one, or if I understood correctly the players (defender) must thwart the opponent's pressing by using the wingers or precisely not use it to advance the ball and have a balance of power in the midfield and that we do not get there is very uncomfortable.
The moment of the video where we see Dalot swing the ball in the middle is very significant of our game.
No technical accuracy, too many missed passes that make the team lose confidence and in the end we end up with a draft game where we have the impression of being lost on the field. It's a shame and I find it serious that the players can't do the things that are the basis of our game.
Let's admit that this video shows us the basis of Amorim's game, from where our game begins, that is to say phase one, or if I understood correctly the players (defender) must thwart the opponent's pressing by using the wingers or precisely not use it to advance the ball and have a balance of power in the midfield and that we do not get there is very uncomfortable.
The moment of the video where we see Dalot swing the ball in the middle is very significant of our game.
No technical accuracy, too many missed passes that make the team lose confidence and in the end we end up with a draft game where we have the impression of being lost on the field. It's a shame and I find it serious that the players can't do the things that are the basis of our game.
I'm not sure if you watched enough of our games under Amorim but are you surprised by the lack of improvement of our players on a individual level?
I agree Amorim doesn't have the players to play the way he wants but none of the players are doing anything close to it, which is worrying for me. I've highlighted it in my post above but telling Maguire or de Ligt to pass the ball faster (even sideways and not even vertically) isn't asking them to be Martinez on the ball overnight. It's really baffling there aren't any changes, tweaks or semblances of patterns of play beyond the surface level. Again I understand Ugarte, Bruno and Casemiro aren't the sharpest in the half spaces, on the turn etc but they are almost none existent first pass/pivot options for our centre backs, which seems to the basis of how Amorim's Sporting teams played.
But isn't the entire point that both he and INEOS are aware that most of our players aren't good enough and will be shipping them out accordingly? Sure he could adjust, and try to play a more familiar system where we let Bruno float around as a 10 and play transition ball to scrape more towards the middle of the table, but ultimately it doesn't make a difference in the end. It's not like we have a team that would be in 4th with better tactical decisions and we are pissing away UCL qualification to try some exotic "system".
I have my doubts about Amorim because like you I think there are certain things that should have been improved upon by this point, and he's made some tactical and personnel decisions I don't agree with. But I also think a large chunk of the squad is just flat out poor, with the biggest eyesore being the attacking group we employ as a club. Amad is the only player in that entire group that I think can play in any top level team, and he's not even available anymore. The rest are genuine bottom of the table type options to field in an attack, and if you have nothing in terms of quality going forward then it's just going to make every "good" performance suffer and struggle to actually get results, and every poor performance will be exacerbated even more because you don't have any quality to bail you out.
Oh, great, another armchair expert who thinks they know more than everyone else. Did you even watch the games, or are you just regurgitating the same tired takes you read on some other forum? Klopp and Arteta had 'clear visions'? Yeah, because you were in the dressing room, right? Amorim took over a sinking ship, and you expect him to turn it into a luxury yacht overnight. Maybe if you stopped whining for five seconds, you'd see that rebuilding takes time. But no, let's just fire everyone and start over every time things get tough. Brilliant strategy, Einstein.
Look who is available and how good they are. We need a summer miracle