Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

I would argue that the reason we are were we are is because we can’t score goals.

Our £71million striker hasn’t scored for 19 games. Gernacho our wonderkid around the same.
We had to move on Rashford and Anthony as they were both crap for us. This isn’t just under Amorim.

We have lost our other young created
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Poor Pep. My heart bleeds.
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In fairness we’ve spunked a fortune up the wall on very little. I don’t feel for Pep. I am scared where we get the funds from to sort our mess.
 
careca07 said:
I just.... I don't even know where to start with any of that, my word.

It's like some people's eyes and brains genuinely work in a different way - like living in opposite world. It's so far from reality that I don't even think I can begin to start to craft any kind of reply that would scratch the surface of the unreality encased in those four sentences.

So I'll just bid you a pleasant evening
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That‘s probably for the best.
 
Leftback99 said:
On that basis you're at the other end of the scale where Slot is the main reason Liverpool are top and Russell Martin/Juric is the reason they are bottom.
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No because I never suggested that a head coach is the only reason behind a team being successful. I simply think that it's a key component and I also think that a good head coach will elevate an average bunch because the only reasons teams hire head coaches is to make the sum bigger than the parts and develop said parts.
 
Steve 007 said:
I would argue that the reason we are were we are is because we can’t score goals.

Our £71million striker hasn’t scored for 19 games. Gernacho our wonderkid around the same.
We had to move on Rashford and Anthony as they were both crap for us. This isn’t just under Amorim.

We have lost our other young created

In fairness we’ve spunked a fortune up the wall on very little. I don’t feel for Pep. I am scared where we get the funds from to sort our mess.
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Garnacho is a winger, they aren't supposed to be the main goalscorers.
 
Leftback99 said:
Tell us your best XI and I'll easily give you 8 better.
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Onana
Maz De Ligt Martinez Shaw
Mainoo Ugarte
Fernandes
Amad Rashford Garnacho

That is a damn decent 11 that should be finishing top 8.

Obviously Shaw has been out injured and Martinez and Amad are now out for the season, but I’m sick to death of so many saying that the squad is championship level.

There is something fundamentally wrong with the system to be as bad as we are.
 
Steve 007 said:
I would argue that the reason we are were we are is because we can’t score goals.

Our £71million striker hasn’t scored for 19 games. Gernacho our wonderkid around the same.
We had to move on Rashford and Anthony as they were both crap for us. This isn’t just under Amorim.

We have lost our other young created

In fairness we’ve spunked a fortune up the wall on very little. I don’t feel for Pep. I am scared where we get the funds from to sort our mess.
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The issue is that we don't create goal scoring opportunities, we have the 12th xG in the league and we concede a relatively high amount of chances we have the 8th most expected goals against. Also while we underperformed our expected goals it would only put us 14th instead of 15th best attack. Our issue is systemic.
 
JPRouve said:
No because I never suggested that a head coach is the only reason behind a team being successful. I simply think that it's a key component and I also think that a good head coach will elevate an average bunch because the only reasons teams hire head coaches is to make the sum bigger than the parts and develop said parts.
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And I never suggested they were useless.
 
Garethw said:
Onana
Maz De Ligt Martinez Shaw
Mainoo Ugarte
Fernandes
Amad Rashford Garnacho

That is a damn decent 11 that should be finishing top 8.

Obviously Shaw has been out injured and Martinez and Amad are now out for the season, but I’m sick to death of so many saying that the squad is championship level.

There is something fundamentally wrong with the system to be as bad as we are.
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Firstly 5 of them are currently unavailable.

Even with that

City
Liverpool
Chelsea
Newcastle
Villa
Spurs
Arsenal
Brighton

All have better best XIs
 
I think these players are shit, but distinctly remember most saying Rasmus should be part of the rebuild. Doesn't seem right the way he gets slated on here and needs to be sold now.

Not like he's missing guilt edge chances. Ruben has to take some responsibility here.
 
Leftback99 said:
And I never suggested they were useless.
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To some extent you did by suggesting that a manager can't coax great results out of his team if he loses a key player or when your biggest issue is something that isn't supposed to be led by a head coach.

But to answer your question, didn't City win the league with De Bruyne missing most of a season? Why the same couldn't happen for Liverpool and Salah?
 
JPRouve said:
To some extent you did by suggesting that a manager can't coax great results out of his team if he loses a key player or when your biggest issue is something that isn't supposed to be led by a head coach.

But to answer your question, didn't City win the league with De Bruyne missing most of a season? Why the same couldn't happen for Liverpool and Salah?
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Would Liverpool have been as good this season without Salah, yes or no?
 
Livewire1974 said:
Exactly. If the "system" was anything other than snakeoil we would be seeing some progress by now.
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Not necessarily. Nuno took over at Forest before Christmas last year and between then and the end of the season they had a 29% win ratio and 52% loss ratio. After a proper pre-season and some smart summer signings they’re absolutely flying and exceeding all reasonable expectations. It’s a turnaround that would have been near impossible to predict during his first six months in the job.

Since Amorim came in he’s had a 31% win ratio and 50% loss ratio in the PL, so very similar. We’ll soon find out what the rest of the season brings, and how our squad is looking after our summer transfer dealings.

The only thing we know for sure, is that some things take time. Sometimes progress isn’t readily apparent after 3-6 months, but does become very apparent after 12-18 months.
 
Martinez4midfield said:
I think these players are shit, but distinctly remember most saying Rasmus should be part of the rebuild. Doesn't seem right the way he gets slated on here and needs to be sold now.

Not like he's missing guilt edge chances. Ruben has to take some responsibility here.
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If you watch his goal reels since joining us he can finish. Theres some great finishes from him. In his first season he was also starting to get into good poaching positions. It was a positive start.

He’s just totally regressed on everything. Like many players that come here, we managed to smash his career into the ground in a big ball of flames. I dont know what it is but I know its a pattern - do any players improve here? We’ve even destroyed Mainoo and Garnacho. We’ll make Dorgu look like a pub team player in no time at all.

Also why is he going to score loads of goals? We dont get many goals in general.

He’s not useless in my opinion but he’s in a right run of appaling form and the club may or may not be able to turn it around. It would certainly hell for him to be out of the team for a while
 
Jezpeza said:
If you watch his goal reels since joining us he can finish. Theres some great finishes from him. In his first season he was also starting to get into good poaching positions. It was a positive start.

He’s just totally regressed on everything. Like many players that come here, we managed to smash his career into the ground in a big ball of flames. I dont know what it is but I know its a pattern - do any players improve here? We’ve even destroyed Mainoo and Garnacho. We’ll make Dorgu look like a pub team player in no time at all.

Also why is he going to score loads of goals? We dont get many goals in general.

He’s not useless in my opinion but he’s in a right run of appaling form and the club may or may not be able to turn it around. It would certainly hell for him to be out of the team for a while
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Oh please.. when will players hold themselves responsible? Manchester United is the reason why Hojlund struggles to trap a simple pass? United is the reason why he can't make runs and create space for himself? Is Manchester united the reason why he spends most games scrapping with defenders instead of eluding them?

His record in Denmark or Atalanta was never exceptional. He played in the Euros in a different set up, with a different coach, spoken to in his own native language and he didn't muster a single shot on goal

He is not good enough and many players who have turned up here are simply not good enough or unable to handle the pressure of playing for the club. Some players will leave and have a small purple patch at their new club. Rashford, Antony, even Van de Beek at one point. People abs media will try to cane United with it but it is clear that many of these players lack both the technical fundamentals and character to be stars at united. They do not have the capacity to elevate the club to where it needs to be.
 
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Second part. Really good analysis, showing the positioning of the players are really ruining our games
 
Leftback99 said:
Minimal. Reading back my pre season posts I said we were relying on another Rashford purple patch for goals. Instead we've lost him completely. No coach can overcome a complete lack of attacking quality.

I'm not sure whether the Rashford situation is a mark against Amorim or enforced given we need the money.
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It was time for Marcus to pull his head in and get down to work or to go. Sure, he might have scored for us or given assists if he hadn`t gone to Villa but the new manager has enough on his plate without having to plead with one of United`s own youth products not to leave when in fact Marcus made it clear through the media he wanted a move. And when the new manager is hearing allegations that Marcus was out on the town and having to confront him about whether it`s true or not, it`s time spent wasting energy that should be put into the team.

At the end of the day, much as some of us wanted nothing more than Marcus Rashford to stay and prove critics wrong, he hasn`t had the mentality to do that for some time. If he was a bit player in the squad or somebody whose age means their playing capabilities are such that expectations are lower, that`s different.

But he is at an age when top players are hitting their peak and United also has the right to expect more for his salary and the fact he grew up in the environment so hasn`t got the issues a new player from a different footballing environment might have. I now think the `news` put out that Barcelona and Milan were interested is simply his agent and PR doing what they get paid for - to hype him up as well as look after his interests. I wish him success with Villa though not at our expense but getting him back at United would be a regressive move.
 
Leftback99 said:
Has Guardiola suddenly become a worse coach or is more likely down to losing Rodri and other key players getting old?
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It doesn't have to be either, it can come down to form and other circumstantial reasons. It's just that this explanation doesn't combine well with some people's preferred solution to United's troubles, which is selling 90% of players ASAP.
Leftback99 said:
Would Liverpool have been as good this season without Salah, yes or no?
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There's no right or wrong answer to a hypothetical.

Real Madrid won a league title and CL in 2022 with Benzema as their most important player, he won the Balon d'Or for his performance that season. One season later he left the club and they did not sign a replacement striker. The logical expectation would be for Real Madrid to have a worse season, score less goals, and so forth. But they had a better season than 21/22, they scored more goals, won more games, got more points, and won the same titles. It's not the most likely outcome but it's hardly crazy.
 
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Iker Quesadillas said:
It doesn't have to be either, it can come down to form and other circumstantial reasons. It's just that this explanation doesn't combine well with some people's preferred solution to United's troubles, which is selling 90% of players ASAP.
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Another trying to deny the obvious. Would you expect City to have done better this season had Rodri not been injured?
 
Smores said:
Using Pep as an example is fecking ludicrous l. He had Fernandinho, KdB, Silva, Aguero in his first line up. Wow I wonder why Pep was able to hit the ground running. Some of you are off your heads.

Even Klopp took over when they were 10th and finished a grand total of two places higher in 8th. It took major signings in the summer for them to jump to 4th the following season.
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That way we also have Bruno, Amad, Ugarte, Yoro, de Ligt, etc. etc. etc. And we only want a coherent team, not top 4.

Again, the minimum expectation is an uptick in performances and a peek into the future of the football we are going to play. So, far we haven't seen any of that. A formation is a not a style of football.

There were visible signs of improvement in Liverpool's style of play even in Klopp's first season. Go do a simple search and see my posts from when Klopp joined compared to the idiots who were calling him "Jurgen Flopp".

Some of you push your heads so far up a manager's ass that you don't want to see anything and can only come up with generic nonsense...."needs time", "his players", "all players bad", yada yada yada.

He still has time. We have 11 to 17 games available depending on how far we go in Europa. We should be able to see some sort of cohesion and things falling into place by the end of the season. Otherwise, serious questions will need to be asked on his suitability to manage us. His previous resume got him one of the biggest job in world football. His body of work here, and only that, will determine whether that can translate here or not.
 
JPRouve said:
Let me soothe your sole. With a couple of good head coaches Chelsea went from 15th when Mourinho was sacked to champions the next season. And no Chelsea didn't have a great team in 15/16 and in 16/17 the only great signing they made was Kanté. I won't tell you that we will be champions but if your manager isn't useless, a team with our squad can make a big jump.

I don't even like our squad but many fans are lying to themselves when they underrate every single player while overrating every opponents.
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You had posters on here claiming Everton have a better first 11 than us. The same Everton who were struggling to win a single game and were flirting with relegation, before they sacked their clearly underperforming manager for one who was not shitting the bed nonstop.

Almost everyone on here understands this team are not title material unless there’s a bizarre season and they play out of their skin, but to somehow justify the abhorrent run of performances and results takes special mental gymnastics, which we are seeing plenty of after each horrible game.
 
NK86 said:
You had posters on here claiming Everton have a better first 11 than us. The same Everton who were struggling to win a single game and were flirting with relegation, before they sacked their clearly underperforming manager for one who was not shitting the bed nonstop.

Almost everyone on here understands this team are not title material unless there’s a bizarre season and they play out of their skin, but to somehow justify the abhorrent run of performances and results takes special mental gymnastics, which we are seeing plenty of after each horrible game.
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Where do you think our current (actually available) best XI ranks?

It doesn't take 'special mental gymnastics' to see it's bottom half level but I assume you think otherwise?
 
The problem Amorim has and ETH had is that our squad is very poorly suited to the pace and power of the premier league. Until our squad make up changes, I can’t see any improvement in performances
 
Revival2024 said:
Oh please.. when will players hold themselves responsible? Manchester United is the reason why Hojlund struggles to trap a simple pass? United is the reason why he can't make runs and create space for himself? Is Manchester united the reason why he spends most games scrapping with defenders instead of eluding them?

His record in Denmark or Atalanta was never exceptional. He played in the Euros in a different set up, with a different coach, spoken to in his own native language and he didn't muster a single shot on goal

He is not good enough and many players who have turned up here are simply not good enough or unable to handle the pressure of playing for the club. Some players will leave and have a small purple patch at their new club. Rashford, Antony, even Van de Beek at one point. People abs media will try to cane United with it but it is clear that many of these players lack both the technical fundamentals and character to be stars at united. They do not have the capacity to elevate the club to where it needs to be.
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He cant make runs? Did you watch Thursday evening? Dalot just has to square the ball and he doesnt even spot it. Or do you mean he should receive the ball and dribble past 6 players to score from a solo run? He does all that for us in the past, and hes stopped.

Thats the point I am making - you cant knock his first season that much. I agree he looks terrible at the moment but most of our players do.

We can list a whole bunch of players who have fallen off the bus here. I can see why Mainoo wants out to be honest. Theres something deeply wrong with this club. Look at our constant injuries. Look at the mentality of the players. Look at what you see on the pitch. Coaching looks crap, sports psychology looks non existent, sports science looks no existent. INEOS look like all bluster at the moment - came in promising to employ the ‘best in class’ at these things, now focusing on cutting the canteen soup bill.

For my money, all I’ve seen from Amorim is a kind of return to Van Gaal subuteo soccer. We wont have the money to turn the playing squad round that much in the summer and you rarely see a manager recover this sort of nose dive. When we start next season afresh from 0 points, if these level of results continue we’ll quite quickly be sat in the bottom 3. I dont think he’ll be Manchester United Manager by November.
 
Leftback99 said:
Another trying to deny the obvious. Would you expect City to have done better this season had Rodri not been injured?
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I imagine City would have done better without Rodri this season. But I don't know it with a strong degree of certainty because, as I already explained, there are real-life (not hypothetical) examples of teams getting better without some of their best players.
 
Leftback99 said:
What would your guess be?
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I don't know, a guess is pointless because the entire point is the ability of a manager to find solutions. I don't know Slot, so I'm not going to take a guess on his abilities.
 
I'm also not entirely understanding these references to Salah and Rodri. United's best player is Bruno Fernandes and he's started almost every league game.
 
Jezpeza said:
He cant make runs? Did you watch Thursday evening? Dalot just has to square the ball and he doesnt even spot it. Or do you mean he should receive the ball and dribble past 6 players to score from a solo run? He does all that for us in the past, and hes stopped.

Thats the point I am making - you cant knock his first season that much. I agree he looks terrible at the moment but most of our players do.

We can list a whole bunch of players who have fallen off the bus here. I can see why Mainoo wants out to be honest. Theres something deeply wrong with this club. Look at our constant injuries. Look at the mentality of the players. Look at what you see on the pitch. Coaching looks crap, sports psychology looks non existent, sports science looks no existent. INEOS look like all bluster at the moment - came in promising to employ the ‘best in class’ at these things, now focusing on cutting the canteen soup bill.

For my money, all I’ve seen from Amorim is a kind of return to Van Gaal subuteo soccer. We wont have the money to turn the playing squad round that much in the summer and you rarely see a manager recover this sort of nose dive. When we start next season afresh from 0 points, if these level of results continue we’ll quite quickly be sat in the bottom 3. I dont think he’ll be Manchester United Manager by November.
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I don't understand why this discussion still even exists. Just look at him. Not only does he not score goals, as far as I can tell he doesn't really do anything at a high level for the PL. Loses almost every 50/50, can't beat a defender, usually can't make a pass, can't hold up the ball, easily neutralised by any defender who gets stuck in. And no, he doesn't get into many good positions either. You're clearly right about the Dalot situation, but that is one situation. It's not something that replicates much. And, it's not like this was totally different last season. It was a little bit better in terms of goals, but then too he really didn't contribute much else. Defenders have figured out how to neutralise him. And he doesn't have a reply.
 
justsomebloke said:
I don't understand why this discussion still even exists. Just look at him. Not only does he not score goals, as far as I can tell he doesn't really do anything at a high level for the PL. Loses almost every 50/50, can't beat a defender, usually can't make a pass, can't hold up the ball, easily neutralised by any defender who gets stuck in. And no, he doesn't get into many good positions either. You're clearly right about the Dalot situation, but that is one situation. It's not something that replicates much. And, it's not like this was totally different last season. It was a little bit better in terms of goals, but then too he really didn't contribute much else. Defenders have figured out how to neutralise him. And he doesn't have a reply.
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Again, i’d agree that he looks awful on current form but thats looking at it with a recency bias. There were signs of these things in his first season. The question for me is why has he stopped doing it. I’m not saying hes the best striker in the world or that he is going to be. But he can do more than he is, like a lot of our players.

I’ve seen this argument a lot - blame it all on the players. If its not a managers job to get the best out of his players or get them performing, why do you need one? If it is solely letting 11 players go on a pitch and do their stuff, then you just need players. You cant take the position that the two are exclusive - its not 100% the players or 100% the manager - it can be both at the same time
 
Leftback99 said:
Where do you think our current (actually available) best XI ranks?

It doesn't take 'special mental gymnastics' to see it's bottom half level but I assume you think otherwise?
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I absolutely disagree we should be bottom half. What next? We are lucky to be avoiding relegation? It’s funny that the team which finished 8th last season (which many fans feel was with us underperforming and massive injury crisis), having added good players in the simmering (bar maybe Zirkzee who has been poor for us) - and that equals to us being naturally “bottom half” material.
 
The first eleven may not be the best but a top class striker and goalkeeper and every other player would all of a sudden look better and have increased confidence.

Our striker hasn’t scored for three months and our keeper is a constant liability. These thoughts creep I to our team and also opposition can smell the fear and doubt.
 
JPRouve said:
I don't know, a guess is pointless because the entire point is the ability of a manager to find solutions. I don't know Slot, so I'm not going to take a guess on his abilities.
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It's pointless guessing whether he would have won the PL with my Sunday league side too I suppose. He could have found solutions after all.
 
Leftback99 said:
It's pointless guessing whether he would have won the PL with my Sunday league side too I suppose. He could have found solutions after all.
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Sure, Liverpool without Salah is a sunday league side.
 
Leftback99 said:
Would Liverpool have been as good this season without Salah, yes or no?
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They probably would have been. They still create a ton of chances every game and they’ve got players all over the pitch that chip in with goals. So although Salah is probably irreplaceable for them. They’d still win enough games without him.
 
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