Results instantly improved and he showed a slow and gradual improvement over the next two seasons. If he had come in and done worse than Emery he would’ve been sacked.
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
That final Fergie team was on the decline. That isn't "gymnastics" as you put it.
I think who the spare man is is down the list of issues. Mostly the time there isn't a spare man. We've recycled the ball so much around our own third the opposition now have us smothered.
The only way out isn't really via a spare man, it's via some really smart play by an individual. But you can't keep relying on that.
Look at the freeze frame before Bayindir plays that pass for the fourth. There's no reason to be outnumbered in the middle. We have the numbers, the midfielders. They're just poorly positioned and that's not a formation thing. Everyone is just too deep.
yes, by getting players in that's the point, and 'over two seasons'. So what we arguing about when people on here using stats to already make amorim look like he's not good enough after a few months, without getting players in?
It's pointless using Arteta has a comparison when he's had years to show something, and we've just gotten in Amorim
He's basically not had Shaw this season, so he can cover the minutes those 2 have contributed. And eventually job share with Martinez.
De Ligt, Maguire and Yoro the main stay, with Maz and Dalot other options. Heaven too.
I do hate a back 3 though, and am sure we'll not be playing it by mid season next year one way or another.
There's no tangible evidence of this. In retrospect, its easy to say it was in the decline because Fergie retired and was replaced by Moyes, who then made a mess of things. Had Fergie stayed on, as always, the right summer moves would've kept our success going.
This is an exaggeration. Can you please elaborate exactly how the changes in formation affect stability? For example, we are targeting Cunha, Delap etc. Are you saying they are specifically "3-4-3" players and that another manager won't be able to use them if Amorim is sacked?
The reality is, the likes of Hojlund, Garnacho and Onana would be rubbish under any manager. They are average to poor players, period. If you sign good players, then they would adapt to any formation and will be useful even if the coach is replaced. So its' our recruitment which has to get things right. Dorgu is already looking like a flop as it is.
As for Amorim, I think he is Ange/Potter level at best. But it seems Ineos haven't realized that yet and we are gonna waste 5-10 games of next season atleast before they realize that truth.
Take your pick. Whichever parameter you want?
Have we fulfilled our potential from Day 1 of the season or from the time Amorim took over?
Another abysmal performance. He has made us considerably worse as a team - which is saying something - and I don’t see anything in our style of play or performances to be optimistic about. We look clueless on the ball, we can’t press opponents, we can’t progress the ball through midfield, we don’t create any chances, we miss the chances we happen to create. It’s really bleak.
So what do you propose then?
"A real threat" who finished 8th, 8th and 5th. Arsenal fans were begging him to be sacked in his 2nd season.
We've not given Amorim anywhere near the same time.
I’m pretty sure no one on the Caf expected us to be heading towards and 15-17th place finish with this squad at the start of the season - no one did.
So why now, when throwing blind support behind a limited manager is it the players fault? Most of them are bang average but not this bad. Not a single improvement on any player this season but many have regressed under RA (Mainoo, Hojlund, Garnacho to name a few).
Heading into next season with Amorim is walking into a relegation battle - the stats under him support this.
So why now, when throwing blind support behind a limited manager is it the players fault? Most of them are bang average but not this bad. Not a single improvement on any player this season but many have regressed under RA (Mainoo, Hojlund, Garnacho to name a few).
Heading into next season with Amorim is walking into a relegation battle - the stats under him support this.
History dictates he won't have either next year either both are walking sick notes. Have been impressed with Heaven though so hopefully he can step up.
I haven’t seen such a physically weak team in the PL in my two and half decades of watching it.
We haven't fulfilled our potential from day 1 - which is why we sacked the manager. Amorim has predictably not turned things around because he came into this mid stream without the benefit of training with his players or a summer window to buy suitable ones that work in his system. That's why he won't be judged until next year - and SJR's public comments have tacitly confirmed this.
Their form improved when he took over. You’re missing that point entirely.
The only positive I can think of is that the further we fall and the longer it lasts the more fun the climb back up is gonna be.
Not really, you're blowing that way out of proportion. First two seasons like the above post mentioned by another user many Arsenal fans wanted him gone, I remember this vividly. It was only because of the FA cup that bought him a lot of time, he only showed a lot more improvement after his second full season. It wasn't instantly, he got rid of a lot of players in 1-2 seasons to see his full style. I have family who follow Arsenal, I know how bad they were playing with the terrible players they had in defence etc until he got them out.
The two can job share. 15-20 appearances each seems doable.
Especially if we don't even get near Europe, we'll have a lot fewer games next year.
He's been here for how many months? Plenty of managers have made an impact in similar circumstances. One example Chelsea going from Lampard to Tuchel, complete night and day change in system and performances as shown by going from a crap coach to a top class one.
Yep, it was very noticeable today. We were doing give and goes on the edge of our box so many times, and the wing backs drop into full back areas more often than not too. It makes us very easy to press and punish, whilst providing very little attacking threat.
We got ragdolled today. Physicality is key hopefully he knows that.
Arsenal for the last 6/7 years of Wenger’s reign were worse than us. They had no ‘enforcers’ like Casemiro/Ugarte/De Ligt/Maguire.
There are always going to be one or two outliers, but if you consider the constant manager swapping United have done for the past 13 years, its more detrimental to continue sacking managers each year and hiring new ones - only to have the new ones face the same problems, than it is to provide a two year period whereby the new manager can at least have the benefit of one summer window to build his squad as he sees fit.
Hyperbole.
We give managers way more time than most teams and have declined more. Madrid, Chelsea, Barca etc are way more ruthless and have won more than us in that period. Maybe the club needs to be as ruthless with managers as the fans want it to be with players.
Of all the managers/coaches we've had he's actually the most deserving of the sack yet we seem to be rollercoasting into a transfer window with the mindset or allowing him to spend money on players that may not fit into a new managers system come Christmas.
It's utter madness to be honest.
It's utter madness to be honest.
We’re investing in the likes of Dorgu who are made for this system he wouldn’t make a good left back or left winger in the traditional formations and we’re going to always have to have 5 or so CB’s available just to cover the back 3 slots the system is completely fundamental to our transfer business and will be this summer
Don’t get me wrong obviously we need a striker and they can play multiple systems but ultimately we’re putting all our eggs into this and I’m not sure it’s going to work
I feel like much of this comes down to tactics. Arsenal were seen as weak physically because they tried to build play through the lines and would constantly be undone by long balls and direct play (Pulis v Wenger) but you can have slower players like Case, Ugarte, De Ligt, Maguire etc. in a physically imposing team if you just play a bit deeper and don’t try so much in terms of advancing the ball positionally. Hell, look at how we beat this lot in the Carabao and Case played out of his skin.
Ruben Amorim simply cannot be judged until he has been given a fair chance to establish his own squad and methods.
Even Gordon Ramsay could not prepare a lavish meal if all the cupboards had was rotten, used by tasteless ingredients - which is essentially, exactly what Amorim inherited.
Even Gordon Ramsay could not prepare a lavish meal if all the cupboards had was rotten, used by tasteless ingredients - which is essentially, exactly what Amorim inherited.
Let’s call it what it is.
It’s been a disastrous reign so far. Even the most manager backing kinda fans could not have envisaged it going so badly.
We are fecking shit with an exclamation mark. We are not good at a single thing.
Only Spurs and the bottom three have less points since he joined.
Only spurs and the bottom three have more losses since he joined.
Dont want him sacked but we’re entering the realms now of facing the facts that if he’s to have any success here it will be completely dependant on what players are signed in the summer.
It’s been a disastrous reign so far. Even the most manager backing kinda fans could not have envisaged it going so badly.
We are fecking shit with an exclamation mark. We are not good at a single thing.
Only Spurs and the bottom three have less points since he joined.
Only spurs and the bottom three have more losses since he joined.
Dont want him sacked but we’re entering the realms now of facing the facts that if he’s to have any success here it will be completely dependant on what players are signed in the summer.
Following your logic, which I think is sound, the difficulty of building a satisfying squad isn't tied to his shape then either. It's not more difficult to have to buy a player capable of playing wingback when you have to buy a fullback anyway. With Shaw injured and Malacia injured and then moved out, we literally had no senior left back in the squad in winter. That's a glaring issue the DoF team has to adress regardless of whether the manager wants to play 3-5-2 or 4-2-3-1.
That the only solution to this has been Dorgu is an indictment of how much our squad building leaves to be desired still.
It's strange how people can look at a squad devoid of any left backs and then go "oh it's such a problem this manager requires specialist players for wing back".
The decline hasn't been because of the managers alone. The club have been in executive free fall for the entire post Fergie period. Reflexively sacking managers all the time isn't going to help the long term interests of building a long term winning ethos at the club.
He's spent almost all his career to date playing as either a fullback or winger, and was linked to (and had offers rebuffed from) other top clubs who intended to play him as a fullback. The idea that he is some sort of specialist wingback has no foundation in the reality of his career to date.
It's the same with all the other "wingbacks" we were linked to like Kerkez, Ait Nouri and Alvaro. All also targets for clubs who wanted to play them as fullbacks.
So you know i am deluded and also you know you're not deluded, Mr?
in our culture we usually say a Monkey doesn't see its red ass, it usually laughs at the next monkey red ass.
The fact is AMORIM has the worst record of Modern United coach. He has double loss rate than his win rate but magically it's someone else mistakes.
If AMORIM was winning, would people accept to apportion HIS success rave to ETH? Or we only apportion blame to others?
But appointing the right people for the job can at least mitigate the crap up top. Even broken clocks get it right twice a day. No one said Liverpool or Arsenal's owners were great until they landed Klopp/Slott and Arteta.
Dorgu is just an average player IMO. It's not that he can only play in this system. But even at Lecce, he didn't show any exceptional abilities. I have no idea why we signed him, hope it's not some foreboding for a shit summer.
You buy someone like Kvara, you play him in this system and he will shine. You buy average players, they won't be of use to the next coach, it's simple as that.
Having 5 CBs doesn't mean anything either. In any case, we are not likely targeting CBs this summer. Yoro, De Ligt, Mazraoui and Heaven as our main CB options is sufficient to focus on the other areas.
No, this is nonsense only spouted by united fans. We have said this for every single manager and they’ve all gone shit. None of the, have improved with time and money and chances.
He has not even steadied the ship, he has been a complete and utter failure in every aspect. He deserves to be judged and sacked.
Good lord