I think it's the other way round. McTominay suits fast-paced transitional football. Slow the game down and he's not quite as effective.PL was just abit fast for him. Now in Italy he has all time.
Great first goal like Leeds one.
Fred outperformed him in every game. But keep on crying, we are so missing his 25 attempted passes per game. People are really stupid. He's playing in a different position and much poorer league. Of course he will score some goals. And if he was a better option to Hojlund? That's a big if, Hojlund prior to this season looked okay. Noone knew he would turned into complete shite. That means we should keep absolutely average player who could be sold for decent money. Absolutely no. Grow the feck up.
A lot of shite to blame EtH for, but iirc, he actually wanted to keep Mctominay. But a combination of McTominay wanting more guaranteed minutes, coupled with him being one of our few sellable assets, ended up with him going.How we miss his goals this season… selling him was a huge mistake by Ten Hag when you have a versatile squad player who is passionate about the club you keep him right ??
I still don't understand where that came from. I jut can't connect the dots on it.Worth selling just so we didn't have to read wankers saying McSauce any more
Macaroni?He's learnt some Italian which has made him even more adored
Playing with McTominay in midfield is essentially like playing with 10 men. He provides nothing in a midfield role, he passes and hides, the 25 or so odd passes he might make in a game. He doesn't have a range of passing; it's short sideways passes and nothing else. He has no defensive abilities as a traditional #6, he doesn't have good positional sense, to cut out a pass, he can't take the ball of the defenders and advance it up the pitch, he is big and imposing, but his only real defensive ability is his aerial strength, which is only really useful in defending set pieces. As far as an attacking midfielder he doesn't have the technically ability to make a line breaking pass or intricate through ball, he can't dribble past a player, he doesn't create chances for others. So basically, the only thing he can do is burst into the box and score the odd goal. And while he did that last year, I don't know how many chances he actually took off of our attacking players by getting in their way and occupying their space. He likely prevented as many goals from other players as he did score for himself, to me he is a net negative, or net neutral to the team, at best, in that role.
Seems like a great guy, coaches love him, players love him, he had a great attitude, he loved the club, he never complained, but he just plain and simple wasn't good enough. Replacing likes of McTominay was one of the major factors in trying to upgrade this team, now we didn't, but that's not due to McTominay leaving, it's due to the ineptitude of replacing him with the right players. But if we wanted to advance as a club moving on an extremely limited player that only ever got the chance to play for United because he came through the academy was key to that. Think about it this way, if McTominay had never played for United, and was currently having the season he is having for Napoli, would there be a single United fan in the world that would be identifying him as the key player we should be signing this summer?
Has already bested his best ever league tally with half a dozen games to go.
He got real lucky with the timing of his exit.
Don't waste an opportunity to have a pop at Rasmus. There were numerous occasions where he popped up out of nowhere and put the ball wide, not a guarantee someone else would have scored, but I remember several instances of players looking frustrated because he came charging up from midfield and took an opportunity off them.Well that is utter bollocks for a start. "If McHidesfromtheball hadn't got in the way Rasmus would have scored so many more.."
Who is getting in the way of our forwards this year?
He is an average to good player with limitations who has been very effective when played in a role that suits the things he is good at. Now, it is reasonable to suggest that moving forward those skills don't fit where Utd want to go but in the short term he still would have been a useful player to have around while the squad is redeveloped.
Don't waste an opportunity to have a pop at Rasmus. There were numerous occasions where he popped up out of nowhere and put the ball wide, not a guarantee someone else would have scored, but I remember several instances of players looking frustrated because he came charging up from midfield and took an opportunity off them.
Having a midfielder show up in the box create space for attackers as the defender gets one more player to deal with. Rasmus Hojlund had more chances playing with McTominay than he does without. Stats support that.
Eh? He'd be our starting forward until the end of the season.He solves none of our problems.
What do you think Hojlund of this season is better at than McTominay? If Hojlund gets games, McTominay would almost certainly get a solid trial as our central scoring player, whether you call that a #9, false #9 or midfielder attacking the box from deep.He is scoring a few goals for a better team in a worse league. It's great for him, but we are not missing him. If he was here he'd be in the rather large group of players that are clearly not good enough or fit for purpose. And this notion that he could be turned into a striker is just Football Manager logic.
Scott was a net negative when played a lot at United because of the way we were set up to play and the role he was typically given in his starting appearances. Napoli have a very specific role in mind for him which perfectly suits the way he plays and so it is a good fit for him and the club.
Don't waste an opportunity to have a pop at Rasmus. There were numerous occasions where he popped up out of nowhere and put the ball wide, not a guarantee someone else would have scored, but I remember several instances of players looking frustrated because he came charging up from midfield and took an opportunity off them.
I don’t think there is much evidence McT can play as a #9 at all, the false #9 requires playmaking ability, I don’t think he suits the #10 positions in Amorims system and I wouldn’t want him near the CDM spots either.What do you think Hojlund of this season is better at than McTominay? If Hojlund gets games, McTominay would almost certainly get a solid trial as our central scoring player, whether you call that a #9, false #9 or midfielder attacking the box from deep.
You didn't answer the question though, it wasn't a question of hindsight, because that's a different discussion; it was about right now, if McTominay would serve a purpose usurping Hojlund. McTominay, for all his faults, is a solid and shrewd operator in and around the box and we are absolutely desperate because we have no-one capable of even the basics through the middle. In desperate times, a team and manager floundering for goals is not going hesitate to try a player who has shown nous in scoring goals, up front, in whatever capacity - right now, McTominay doesn't need to be amazing at anything to get a go; just better than what's here, and in that case, what does the Hojlund we have here, do better than McTominay (warts and all)?I don’t think there is much evidence McT can play as a #9 at all, the false #9 requires playmaking ability, I don’t think he suits the #10 positions in Amorims system and I wouldn’t want him near the CDM spots either.
Højlund regressing this year does not make it the wrong call to get a decent fee for a player with no future here.
I ain’t reading all that. I think it’s good we sold McTominay. We need to sell more average players.You didn't answer the question though, it wasn't a question of hindsight, because that's a different discussion; it was about right now, if McTominay would serve a purpose usurping Hojlund. McTominay, for all his faults, is a solid and shrewd operator in and around the box and we are absolutely desperate because we have no-one capable of even the basics through the middle. In desperate times, a team and manager floundering for goals is not going hesitate to try a player who has shown nous in scoring goals, up front, in whatever capacity - right now, McTominay doesn't need to be amazing at anything to get a go; just better than what's here, and in that case, what does the Hojlund we have here, do better than McTominay (warts and all)?
He's not faster, smarter, stronger, better in the air, shrewder, more technically proficient - it might be finishing that could be mentioned as his only attribute that's currently better and even that's by no means certain as McTominay has no problem finding the back of the net if an opportunity presents itself.
I don't think you're doing our dire straits and crisis justice if you think Hojlund, as he has been, would get the gig ahead of anyone with anything about them in the attacking third of the pitch who can operate centrally. McTominay is also a PL-level player, undoubtedly; if Hojlund keeps up his current iteration, he most definitely isn't. These things are - or should - be considered in a comparison between the two, never mind his Napoli form, just from what we know of him in our colours.
The main issue with that is Hojland has been terrible so slightly better isn’t enough besides mct would never get anywhere near the team we are looking to build. Happy for him though.What do you think Hojlund of this season is better at than McTominay? If Hojlund gets games, McTominay would almost certainly get a solid trial as our central scoring player, whether you call that a #9, false #9 or midfielder attacking the box from deep.
Well, you drifted off to another topic - bottom line is McTominay would comfortably be in the team ahead of Hojlund right now because he delivers what we need most at a better rate than Hojlund is doing.I ain’t reading all that. I think it’s good we sold McTominay. We need to sell more average players.
Ok, as a midfielder I meant.Eh? He'd be our starting forward until the end of the season.
I guess I’d say we haven’t seen McTominay in this team that has gotten worse since last season, so it’s an assumption that he would be better.Well, you drifted off to another topic - bottom line is McTominay would comfortably be in the team ahead of Hojlund right now because he delivers what we need most at a better rate than Hojlund is doing.
There's no pie in the sky with that.
And thank god for that...A lot of shite to blame EtH for, but iirc, he actually wanted to keep Mctominay. But a combination of McTominay wanting more guaranteed minutes, coupled with him being one of our few sellable assets, ended up with him going.
Couldn't have said it any better, if I could, I'd give you an upvote for that.Playing with McTominay in midfield is essentially like playing with 10 men. He provides nothing in a midfield role, he passes and hides, the 25 or so odd passes he might make in a game. He doesn't have a range of passing; it's short sideways passes and nothing else. He has no defensive abilities as a traditional #6, he doesn't have good positional sense, to cut out a pass, he can't take the ball of the defenders and advance it up the pitch, he is big and imposing, but his only real defensive ability is his aerial strength, which is only really useful in defending set pieces. As far as an attacking midfielder he doesn't have the technically ability to make a line breaking pass or intricate through ball, he can't dribble past a player, he doesn't create chances for others. So basically, the only thing he can do is burst into the box and score the odd goal. And while he did that last year, I don't know how many chances he actually took off of our attacking players by getting in their way and occupying their space. He likely prevented as many goals from other players as he did score for himself, to me he is a net negative, or net neutral to the team, at best, in that role.
Seems like a great guy, coaches love him, players love him, he had a great attitude, he loved the club, he never complained, but he just plain and simple wasn't good enough. Replacing likes of McTominay was one of the major factors in trying to upgrade this team, now we didn't, but that's not due to McTominay leaving, it's due to the ineptitude of replacing him with the right players. But if we wanted to advance as a club moving on an extremely limited player that only ever got the chance to play for United because he came through the academy was key to that. Think about it this way, if McTominay had never played for United, and was currently having the season he is having for Napoli, would there be a single United fan in the world that would be identifying him as the key player we should be signing this summer?
Have you missed the years where he was part of the team? It is tricky to redevelop a team when every "useful" player needs to be kept for whatever reasons. We haven't missed McTominay the midfielder at any point this season. Him popping up with the odd goal is nice and yes, it might have been useful given the state of our attackers but none of that makes McTominay a better player. We have to sell players at some point. Look at the squad, Shaw, Maguire, Eriksen (to a degree), Dalot - all are players with the "could be useful" tag on them. And they were last season as well. Its a thin line between "could be useful" and deadwood. United isn't competing in four comps anymore, we have serious issues forming a functional team even with the 1st eleven. The time to think about Squad players is goneWell that is utter bollocks for a start. "If McHidesfromtheball hadn't got in the way Rasmus would have scored so many more.."
Who is getting in the way of our forwards this year?
He is an average to good player with limitations who has been very effective when played in a role that suits the things he is good at. Now, it is reasonable to suggest that moving forward those skills don't fit where Utd want to go but in the short term he still would have been a useful player to have around while the squad is redeveloped.
Just one comment - isn't all this under the assumption, that McTominay can just switch position and then recreate the numbers he had? Him being good as a box crasher requires somebody (at least one) to occupy the CBs because otherwise, there is not much of "crashing". No intention to protect Hojlund, he left a lot to be desired this season but that applies to every single attacker, I'd say the odds for McTominay having a significant effect on that can't be big.You didn't answer the question though, it wasn't a question of hindsight, because that's a different discussion; it was about right now, if McTominay would serve a purpose usurping Hojlund. McTominay, for all his faults, is a solid and shrewd operator in and around the box and we are absolutely desperate because we have no-one capable of even the basics through the middle. In desperate times, a team and manager floundering for goals is not going hesitate to try a player who has shown nous in scoring goals, up front, in whatever capacity - right now, McTominay doesn't need to be amazing at anything to get a go; just better than what's here, and in that case, what does the Hojlund we have here, do better than McTominay (warts and all)?
He's not faster, smarter, stronger, better in the air, shrewder, more technically proficient - it might be finishing that could be mentioned as his only attribute that's currently better and even that's by no means certain as McTominay has no problem finding the back of the net if an opportunity presents itself.
I don't think you're doing our dire straits and crisis justice if you think Hojlund, as he has been, would get the gig ahead of anyone with anything about them in the attacking third of the pitch who can operate centrally. McTominay is also a PL-level player, undoubtedly; if Hojlund keeps up his current iteration, he most definitely isn't. These things are - or should - be considered in a comparison between the two, never mind his Napoli form, just from what we know of him in our colours.
he's not a midfielder*Ok, as a midfielder I meant.
As much as it might sound like I'm championing McTominay, it's more about what he is, what he does and what he'd have to beat out here to play. If you just look at the two players in isolation, as raw athletes; as movers and operators around the pitch; as sniffers of chances, loose balls and opportunism, there's quite a gulf between them, imo.Just one comment - isn't all this under the assumption, that McTominay can just switch position and then recreate the numbers he had? Him being good as a box crasher requires somebody (at least one) to occupy the CBs because otherwise, there is not much of "crashing". No intention to protect Hojlund, he left a lot to be desired this season but that applies to every single attacker, I'd say the odds for McTominay having a significant effect on that can't be big.
I think, we have a serious issue with our squad consisting out of weirdly shaped skill profiles that, combined, must be a nightmare to create a team from. We have strikers who aren't scoring, wingers who aren't great at dribbling and having no sense of creating for others, we have CMs who are weak and have no defensive discipline and AMs who aren't good in tight spaces, we have fullbacks who can't attack. All that combined with a issues of staying fit and athleticism. Longing for McTominay, a seriously seriously subpar midfielder, because he is decent at popping up with the odd goal here or there is right in line with that faulty mindset.
(I am conscious that I am employing hyperbole here to a degree and I understand, that you don't long for the player)
Odd that he's started 25 times this season as a central midfielder, and 12 as an attacking mid.he's not a midfielder*
Eh? He'd be our starting forward until the end of the season.
He would be if he were here (imo), or whatever it is interpreted as: point man, false 9, etc.He's not a striker.
Hmm, difficult to argue for and against I guess. All I can tell you is that I wouldn't see a gulf.As much as it might sound like I'm championing McTominay, it's more about what he is, what he does and what he'd have to beat out here to play. If you just look at the two players in isolation, as raw athletes; as movers and operators around the pitch; as sniffers of chances, loose balls and opportunism, there's quite a gulf between them, imo.
I'd say Hojlund is faster than him. I'd say he is a bit more active than McTominay. I think, it would be interesting to see how McTominay deals with physical CBs who are prepared on him. Because he doesn't have technique, nor speed to reliably overcome them. Game intelligence... yeah maybe thats something where McT has a significant upper hand but he is a more experienced player as well.McTominay may excel at late arrivals to the box where CB's etc. are preoccupied, but I would back him to be a better actual #9 than this version of Hojlund, who legitimately doesn't look like a Premier League level player this season. I directly asked what the Hojlund we have here this season is better at than McTominay - anything - and I really don't think you can point to anything at all, on or off the ball. In other words, there's no niche Hojlund has to himself, despite being the centre-forward in this discussion - I would expect McTominay to be better than what Hojlund has delivered in every single facet because Hojlund hasn't been PL standard for anything this season and McTominay, no matter what you think of him, is comfortably a PL player.
Thats understood. But wouldn't the idea of swapping them not just be actionism? I mean, it sounds like you don't expect our overall output to look very different between playing Hojlund or McTominay.To your post, McTominay wouldn't even have to recreate his own numbers; just better Hojlund's.
Fair enough. And 99% agreement on the last sentence with the 1% percent being an asterisk saying "0.22 is better than 0.08 and while McTominay may be better than the current iteration of Hojlund, the attack would most likely still be truly atrocious"There's no longing for McTominay in my post(s); I'm just pointing out that he would be in the team right now if he were here. It isn't a testament to McTominay, either. It's just highlighting that our front line is truly atrocious and he would make it better than it currently is.
He would be if he were here (imo), or whatever it is interpreted as: point man, false 9, etc.
We'd roll him out as our goalscorer because we don't have anyone else unless you drag someone else in who plays another role.
He would be if he were here (imo), or whatever it is interpreted as: point man, false 9, etc.
We'd roll him out as our goalscorer because we don't have anyone else unless you drag someone else in who plays another role.
The only question you need to ask here is if he has more technical ability that the player we have as our starting #9 right now and the answer, you must surely agree, is a resounding yes. We're chuffed if Rasmus' first touch isn't a ricochet to the opposition. That's the bar McTominay would have to win out against.He doesn't have the technical ability to do well in those tight spaces as the focal point that 2 centre backs press on to.
I see no reason to imagine he would do anything there. He is doing alright, has scored nearly as many as Zirkzee in an average league and averaged about 4 goals a season with us.
If we are looking back and imagining we didn't need the transfer fee we got for McTominay then I'd rather think about signing a striker with that money.
