Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Nestor Mahkno]

I'm still not convinced. The Chosen One (Moyez) is doing better at Everton on a much lower budget. Amorim is not the answer at this time - the club is riddled

I'm getting more and more convinced that some people create an account just to stir the pot! I come to Redcafe to try and avoid the likes of Trollsport with Jim White et al and their endless hammering of United just to create 'content'.

Amorim needs time, and the right personnel to compete at the highest level. Trying to compare Everton and the job Moyes is doing to United is like comparing 3 mile island to Chernobyl in terms of messes to fix. Amorim has done a superb job in bringing together a cohesive squad of players that give their all even if some are not physically at the standard required and/or are leaving the club this summer. The amount of crap Amorim has had to deal with on a daily basis is simply not comparable to Everton, try comparing Amorim to Real Madrid and the manager's role there, you might then seem more credible.

Any 'fan' that is still prattling on with toxic negativity in the light of a once in a generation game is either trolling or deluded, be happy for a bit, at least until the Wolves game. And on that point, we are likely to continue struggling in the PL as we prioritise the UEL. As the Newcastle game showed, we lack quality PL experienced depth, hence when we try to rotate we probably lose. Amorim figured out his current best 11 includes Casemiro, and this is temporary as he has had to adapt the team into this mid block stance more often because we lack the physical attributes to compete at the highest level, this approach will change as personnel changes. Criticism should always be constructive, if not then you are simply projecting unnecessary negativity which is not what our club needs right now.

Bilbao or bust!

 

[Marwood]

I am doing that in tandem. Have the players we signed in the summer made the squad worse than that which finished 8th last season? Which ones specifically?

Four of last nights starters weren’t here when we finished 8th either. So how are they to blame for that? That leaves a grand total of two players from last nights starting eleven that were only here when we finished 8th and are still here now.

How many of the players that you have listed did you bemoan losing?

You are now because your argument this team finished 3rd in 22/23 is a nonsense. Which you know but obviously will never back down from. We are after all having an Internet debate and that's the rule.

Of the 15 top appearance makers in 22/23 season, 10 of them have either left the club or not been available due to injury.

With that in mind how can this team be the same as the one in 22/23 stop digging mate.

Rashford alone is a huge difference maker. He got 17 league goals that year. He's only got 12 in the two years since then.

And before we blame Amorim for that. He's got 1 in 8 appearances for Emery. He bombed in ETH's second season. Was awful the the season before ETH.

 

[acnumber9]

You are now because your argument this team finished 3rd in 22/23 is a nonsense. Which you know but obviously will never back down from. We are after all having an Internet debate and that's the rule.

Of the 15 top appearance makers in 22/23 season, 10 of them have either left the club or not been available due to injury.

How can this team be the same as the one in 22/23 stop digging mate.

Rashford alone is a huge difference maker. He got 17 league goals that year. He's only got 12 in the two years since then.

And before we blame Amorim for that. He's got 1 in 8 appearances for Emery. He bombed in ETH's second season. Was awful the the season before ETH.

Because your argument made it about that. You started this by saying the current team was the same team that finished 8th. Four of them weren’t here though. Five of last nights team were here when we finished 3rd. That’s a fact.

Of the 7 players last night that were here last season, 5 have shown they can play in a team capable of finishing 3rd. Only two hadn’t. The other four weren’t part of the team that finished 8th so your point doesn’t stand.

How many of the team that have left do you believe were replaced by worse players? Your posts don’t suggest you wanted De Gea and Sancho to remain. You don’t seem like you were a big fan of Fred and McTominay either.

Basically a fullback who does all the hard work, all the running for him.
So that he gets to get a 5 a side player.

It's what amazed me about Ole. All the midfielders he played with and he thought Fred and McTominay were good enough as a CM pairing.

Rashford and Antony don’t count as excuses if the manager chooses to get rid of them. You’re flip flopping and trying to call me disingenuous and then include Greenwood and Ronaldo as part of the team that finished 3rd.

Why won’t you answer which signings made us worse? Is it because you know the answer proves you wrong?

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

It really isn't. What's he going to do? Rest Bruno and another other key player just for Bilbao games? Who's he gonna replace him and other key players with?

Bruno is the captain and wants to play every game. We have six players out injured who would have got minutes in either PL or Europa. It's hard because even if you prioritise Europa (as well we should), we don't have the depth to rest everyone we need to.

We have Wolves, Bournemouth, Brentford, West Ham, Chelsea, Villa to play. None of the games will be easy.

That's why it's not an easy balancing act.

Bruno is a machine/beast. Has anyone played as many minutes consecutively as him? I know he wants to play every game and we don’t really have a good understudy who can be risked in the league - but I do fervently believe that trophies can change the trajectory of a club. The league is done. Finishing higher for more money is a nice idea but the EL trophy is what matters. I’d rest Bruno, give him cameos at the end to keep match fit, and that’s it.

 

[Gavinb33]

The second half and most of extra time was as bad as anything served up by any of his predecessors.

Even the 1st half we were good but again it was mostly from counter attacks or fast switches, we had 36% possession against a bang average Lyon and ceded control and territory time and again, lastly the Lyon coach reacted to the fast switches and changed his team and began to dominate Amorim did nothing to try and arrest the control and domination from them until he actually needed to do something radical and then he stuck Harry up front and put in crosses again this isn't the most sophisticated tactics but it did work out last night I surmise against Bilbao we will need something far superior

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

But that's not your point. You're not debating if the summers signings are better or not.

You're saying this current team finished second two years ago to criticise the manager when at least half of that team is gone.

Six of last nights starters weren't even at the club in 22/23.

This isn't a debatable point. This team didn't finish 3rd two seasons ago. Over half that team isn't at the club anymore.

There is legit stuff to criticise the manager for. You don't need fiction to do so.

He very conveniently left out Rashford, who was basically like a lottery but he made a huge difference that season. To compare this team to the 22/23 team and leave out the players that made a big difference is the height of a bad faith argument.

 

[acnumber9]

He very conveniently left out Rashford, who was basically like a lottery but he made a huge difference that season. To compare this team to the 22/23 team and leave out the players that made a big difference is the height of a bad faith argument.

I didn’t conveniently leave out Rashford. Pay attention. Amorim chose to get rid of Rashford. He could’ve played last night were it not for that choice.

 

[TrivelaDeBruno]

I didn’t conveniently leave out Rashford. Pay attention. Amorim chose to get rid of Rashford. He could’ve played last night were it not for that choice.

More disingenuity. I suppose you're still reeling from last night's result. Must have been a tough one to take

 

[Marwood]

Because your argument made it about that. You started this by saying the current team was the same team that finished 8th. Four of them weren’t here though. Five of last nights team were here when we finished 3rd. That’s a fact.

Of the 7 players last night that were here last season, 5 have shown they can play in a team capable of finishing 3rd. Only two hadn’t. The other four weren’t part of the team that finished 8th so your point doesn’t stand.

How many of the team that have left do you believe were replaced by worse players? Your posts don’t suggest you wanted De Gea and Sancho to remain. You don’t seem like you were a big fan of Fred and McTominay either.


Rashford and Antony don’t count as excuses if the manager chooses to get rid of them. You’re flip flopping and trying to call me disingenuous and then include Greenwood and Ronaldo as part of the team that finished 3rd.

Why won’t you answer which signings made us worse? Is it because you know the answer proves you wrong?

No I asked what about this team makes you believe it's capable of so much more.

You said because it finished 3rd two years ago.

My very simple factual point is that this team didn't finish third because the vast majority of that 22/23 team is gone. And thar you're creating a fiction to criticise Amorim which is very strange indeed.

I'm not now going into a very subjective debate about which signings have made us worse since 22/23. That's you scrabbling around for yet another reason to slate the manager having already factionalised this current team finishing third.

 

[acnumber9]

More disingenuity. I suppose you're still reeling from last night's result. Must have been a tough one to take

Ignore.

 

[acnumber9]

No I asked what about this team makes you believe it's capable of so much more.

You said because it finished 3rd two years ago.

My very simple factual point is that this team didn't finish third because the vast majority of that 22/23 team is gone. And thar you're creating a fiction to criticise Amorim which is very strange indeed.

I'm not now going into a very subjective debate about which signings have made us worse since 22/23. That's you scrabbling around for yet another reason to slate the manager having already factionalised this current team finishing third.

And many of the team didn’t finish 8th. You fictionalised that. More of them had finished 3rd and 8th than just finished 8th.

You won’t answer because it weakens the stance you’ve cemented yourself in. Which is to not look at the manager objectively. I won’t respond anymore if you aren’t willing to answer a simple question.

 

[roseguy64]

We were 2-0 and cruising at half time when the change was made. It’s almost the perfect time to get minutes in to his legs wouldn’t you say?

No. In what way is giving someone minutes to get fit in a quarterfinal a good idea?

 

[roseguy64]

They scored 2 against us with 10 men and we didn’t get a shot on target during that time. We had the Garna big miss but they missed plenty in the first leg.

We were never in control of the leg, let alone the whole tie. We got a get out of jail card with a miracle which perhaps happens once in a lifetime for most of these players.

Yeah I think people are looking with rose-tinted glasses if they think we were miles better than them over the two legs. The score was as it was because neither team was that better than the other.

 

[roseguy64]

We know the real United fans tonight. Those pathetic cretins still posting negative crap after such an emotional end to the game where the players genuinely played for the shirt and Amorim's changes directly helped us win the game are not real fans. Simple as. Fk off and go support City.

That's not true. Calm down.

 

[galwayfa]

It would have been easy to bring Maguire back to hold on to the draw especially as Lyon had possession from tip off, liking Amorim in his interviews, hopefully he's a success

 

[DevilRed]

Its actually nice to see he still has the players on his side.

 

[astracrazy]

That's not true. Calm down.

Ignore him, he is a hypcrite. He was writting EtH off and moaning on his first or second game here. His past posts are quiet a read for somone making such righteous posts now .

 

[dubplate warrior]

Additionally the players United have starting in defence are generally good. With perhaps the exception of Lindlelof the backline is the most packed area of the team in terms of depth and quality, which means it's the last area that needs investment.

Despite this the team is still conceding too many chances. I'm interested to see what happens when there are actual wingbacks on either side because the impetus to attack will mean that the team is even more vulnerable defensively than what we are witnessing at present.

Because we don't control games enough from midfield.

If you can win games in midfield you create more and concede less chances.

 

[Gavinb33]

Because we don't control games enough from midfield.

If you can win games in midfield you create more and concede less chances.

Because in a lot of games we are outnumbered in the central areas playing 2 against 3

 

[davidmichael]

Lets remember, ETH got to spend 600+ million. Many of his signings have contributed little to nothing and the majority of them we would be glad to see the back of today.

Give Amorim time to bring in some of his players.

He has been left with such a poor squad that he has to resort to playing Maguire uptop, who is probably more effective than the 80m flop that ETH signed.

Here lies the main problem with us on the football side as it’s constantly our managers/coaches choosing players then when it doesn’t work out the following manager/coach is left with a group of players that don’t fit and we need overhaul after overhaul of deadwood.

The people that run the club at the very top allow managers/coaches to dictate everything in the hope we’ll strike lucky and land another Sir Alex who can run everything and be highly successful rather than having a genuine and modern structure where a Sporting Director, Technical Director and the scouting network are in charge of recruitment and identifying players to fit a system whilst the coaching team simply coach and pick the team.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Because in a lot of games we are outnumbered in the central areas playing 2 against 3

I always thought 3 at the back meant one of the CBs would help with this.

 

[Reiver]

I'm starting to feel that Amorim's entire tenure here is going to be defined by whether we qualify for the Champions League or not this season. If we do, more money, able to sign better players... if not, I know it won't be the end of the world but I think it will much more difficult.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Because in a lot of games we are outnumbered in the central areas playing 2 against 3

You're centre backs need to be able to step out and distribute the ball too. We also need a midfielder whose able to come deep and collect the ball.

I think Yoro will quickly become our most important defender because he can do this to a very high level already. But we don't have a midfielder good enough on the ball.

 

[astracrazy]

You're centre backs need to be able to step out and distribute the ball too. We also need a midfielder whose able to come deep and collect the ball.

I think Yoro will quickly become our most important defender because he can do this to a very high level already. But we don't have a midfielder good enough on the ball.

I'm sure at the start of Amorims reign one of the centre backs used to step up into midfield. I can almost see it in my head Evans and Martinez doing it when they played.

I don't recall seeing that much now though.

 

[dubplate warrior]

I'm sure at the start of Amorims reign one of the centre backs used to step up into midfield. I can almost see it in my head Evans and Martinez doing it when they played.

I don't recall seeing that much now though.

Yoro does it several times every game now to be fair. I think Ayden Heaven will also prove to be quite adept at it.

 

[Bobski]

Made it pretty clear last night that the PL is going to be used as a developmental tool for the rest of the season, getting people used to the system and trying new players. The other side of that is that with winning the Europa being so key to his future plans he can't be 3-4-3 or nothing in that, just has to get it done in whatever way means success. It took too long last night to stick Maguire up top, had pretty much ceded control of the game to a 10 man Lyon because they couldn't put any pressure on their back line.

 

[Redstain]

Europa league is a must win, I think most of the negative connotation vanishes away given the cup will change the financial economics of the upcoming season which will impact the quality of the squad.

Therefore, it's not really a competition to win so that Amorim has a trophy in his first season, (even though it will matter in hindsight) it's the implications around not winning the competition and how it impacts the upcoming season that will be catastrophic.

Additionally the new European format means there's no real dangerous opponents in the competition. It's against clubs the team can beat on any given occasion especially in a one off game.

It's quite a unique situation and one I can't fathom having happened before where a club can be so deplorable in the league and throughout every domestic cup but have a ludicrous lottery ticket which changes the dynamics and perspectives about everything including the players and the manager.

 

[Fitchett]

Europa league is a must win, I think most of the negative connotation vanishes away given the cup will change the financial economics of the upcoming season which will impact the quality of the squad.

Therefore, it's not really a competition to win so that Amorim has a trophy in his first season, (even though it will matter in hindsight) it's the implications around not winning the competition and how it impacts the upcoming season that will be catastrophic.

Additionally the new European format means there's no real dangerous opponents in the competition. It's against clubs the team can beat on any given occasion especially in a one off game.

It's quite a unique situation and one I can't fathom having happened before where a club can be so deplorable in the league and throughout every domestic cup but have a ludicrous lottery ticket which changes the dynamics and perspectives about everything including the players and the manager.

Beating Arsenal away in the FA Cup was deplorable? Real Madrid may disagree with you on that.

 

[Raoul]

Made it pretty clear last night that the PL is going to be used as a developmental tool for the rest of the season, getting people used to the system and trying new players. The other side of that is that with winning the Europa being so key to his future plans he can't be 3-4-3 or nothing in that, just has to get it done in whatever way means success. It took too long last night to stick Maguire up top, had pretty much ceded control of the game to a 10 man Lyon because they couldn't put any pressure on their back line.

Playing more kids in the league is definitely the way to go. Everyone else must be preserved for the remaining EL matches.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

United’s squad is shit but there are some excellent young players. I don’t care how this manager does in the short term, he needs to demonstrate that he has an eye for talent in the Summer. If we got a striker who looks the real deal next season then it will change everything very quickly.

Building a squad is about getting even just 1 signing right in 1 window, then 1 the next etc. Far too often we’ve sought 4-5 players and then we just have a boat load more flops on our hands, the young players suffer and we get even shitter. Financial restrictions could genuinely be a blessing in the long term. We need a player who comes in and gets the fans excited, and this manager needs to demonstrate he knows who that can be. There’s been a clear shift in our recruitment and overall strategy upstairs and this Summer is going to be very revealing about where we are heading.

It's a good point, very rare you get multiple good signings in a window. Really feel we need 5 good players to transform the squad. If we buy 2 good attackers in the summer it will be a huge help.

 

[Redstain]

Beating Arsenal away in the FA Cup was deplorable? Real Madrid may disagree with you on that.

14th in the league and knocked out the FA cup by Fulham at home? Deplorable is putting it lightly, the Arsenal result was overshadowed by the mere fact that the team is no longer in the competition.

The context is even worse when you consider United are the holders.

 

[The Hilton]

By that logic he'll never sign a player then. There's no doubt Dorgu was signed for his formation and personally I hope the days of manager driven recruitment are a thing of the past. It was a big factor contributing to the current mess we're in.



That's a bleak way to look at things.

Personally I like to think the people in charge are now trying to do things the right way on the football side of things. But there's a lot of work to do to turn around the years of chronic mismanagement under the Glazers and Woodward/Arnold.

You're right, he won't sign anyone, we're not relying on managers for signings anymore thankfully. I totally agree it's the right approach going forward.

The management team will hopefully support him with signings intended for the first team, but they haven't done that yet. Trying to pass off poaching a youth prospect in Heaven as Amorim making a signing and therefore being supported is really silly. Dorgu was a bit of an emergency signing we made, finding a cheap option because we're broke.

Right now the only thing he's guilty of is failing to get a tune out of a rubbish squad that no manager in the world would get much out of. It's possible they could do a bit better but that isn't what Amorim is being judged on, it's whether or not he can get us playing his system successfully once we've strengthened the squad to a point that it wouldn't be bullied by most other PL teams

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

You're right, he won't sign anyone, we're not relying on managers for signings anymore thankfully. I totally agree it's the right approach going forward.

The management team will hopefully support him with signings intended for the first team, but they haven't done that yet. Trying to pass off poaching a youth prospect in Heaven as Amorim making a signing and therefore being supported is really silly. Dorgu was a bit of an emergency signing we made, finding a cheap option because we're broke.

Right now the only thing he's guilty of is failing to get a tune out of a rubbish squad that no manager in the world would get much out of. It's possible they could do a bit better but that isn't what Amorim is being judged on, it's whether or not he can get us playing his system successfully once we've strengthened the squad to a point that it wouldn't be bullied by most other PL teams

Doesn't Amorim have a veto on signings? Can management force a signing on Amorim that he doesn’t want?

 

[The Hilton]

Doesn't Amorim have a veto on signings? Can management force a signing on Amorim that he doesn’t want?

I'm not aware of one, and yes of course they could. He could quit in protest I suppose.

I'm not sure what your point was I'm afraid.

 

[golden_blunder]

Maybe a little lesson to hold your tongue until the final whistle

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I'm not aware of one, and yes of course they could. He could quit in protest I suppose.

I'm not sure what your point was I'm afraid.

My point is that the manager might not sign players but it would be stupid if management sign players that the manager does not want.

 

[The Hilton]

My point is that the manager might not sign players but it would be stupid if management sign players that the manager does not want.

I totally agree with that, but the management team have to live within the club's means, which means buying bargain basement players because we're broke.

 

[Shark]

I totally agree with that, but the management team have to live within the club's means, which means buying bargain basement players because we're broke.

You see this is why I'm deeply worried for Amorim. Based on his time so far at the club he hasn't presented the ability to get the best out of a mediocre bunch. We've never been lower in fact over the past decade. So if the club is skint and we don't qualify for the CL which generates in income, I genuinely can't see him succeeding next season. All evidence so far points to it being another shit show season.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

I totally agree with that, but the management team have to live within the club's means, which means buying bargain basement players because we're broke.

Yup. I am not impressed by Dorgu at all, whereas Heaven has impressed me a lot. Basement buying isn't easy, not least when we need a reliable goal scorer. But the days of 120m net spend each summer are gone.

 

[Posh Red]

Last night he got attacked for a decision that wasn’t even in his hands. That’s indicative of his tenure so far.