Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

VP89 said:
Pep inherited a squad that was capable of challenging and won the title the penultimate season before, if I remember correctly.

He also sounded £50m a pop on defenders like it was candy, which at the time was wild.
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We aren't just talking about City
 
LukeTheRed said:
A loss?

This is a man who since December had won one game against a team which isn’t Ipswich, Keicester, Southampton In the league

Question marks have to be asked
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The attacking quality in this team is really bad but that is such a damning statistic. You can't excuse a run like that because he's only been able to sign one player, it diminishes the responsibility of a coach to do his job. He's lucky we're still hanging on in Europa otherwise he'd be feeling a lot more pressure right now.
 
Ted Lasso said:
How incredibly disingenuous. You do but won't address it because it invalidates your opinion.

Klopp, Arteta, Pep, even Sir Alex's early results all say hello.
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What are you babbling about?

Me: a manager at this level should be able to grind results. It's the job
You: is there a club press release that says that?
Me: what are you even saying? you don't think getting results is the manager's job? cool, have a good day
You: Klopp, Arteta, Pep and Ferguson say hello
Me: ???

is it crack cocaine?
 
astracrazy said:
What you have done is throw in a comparison by bringing Jose into it, to excuse Amorim. Then excuse any comparisons between the two, because rightly the the situations are night and day.

Which makes the whole reason of bringing Jose into it totally irrelevant.

A diversion tactic to avoid agreeing, that yes your big vs small club comment can apply to Amorim too.
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That was in response to you suggesting managing Wolves was somehow similar to managing Sporting.

astracrazy said:
We can apply this to Amorim then - Sporting vs Utd.
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Sporting, like Porto are among the big clubs in Portugal, hence the Mourinho comparison of successfully moving to England after winning trophies in Portugal. The difference being that Mourinho had the advantage of a massive infusion of cash from the early Roman days. Amorim is arriving in completely different circumstances and hasn't even had the benefit of a proper summer transfer window yet.
 
LukeTheRed said:
A loss?

This is a man who since December has won one game against a team which isn’t Ipswich, Leicester, Southampton In the league

Question marks have to be asked
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Question marks are always asked after a loss, and never after a comfortable win. See the reactions of Thu night as an example.
 
Raoul said:
Question marks are always asked after a loss, and never after a comfortable win. See the reactions of Thu night as an example.
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Maybe not the greatest example of a comfortable win but overall agree. On the other hand, thats just the ebb and flow of this forum, isn't it
 
by the way guys, not every shit manager that has a poor/underwhelming season is suddenly going to turn into Ferguson, Pep, Arteta or Klopp. After seeing it so often with EtH I thought people would have put that argumentation to rest.

It's OK if people have faith/belief in Amorim - again, I like the guy - but argue for him without "Pep, Klopp, Arteta, Ferguson!!" - those were outliers

the likelihood of a manager being ultimately shit is much higher than the likelihood of a manager ending up there
 
Sign some forwards with high xg and xa and fit the system, and importantly can for 90 minutes
 
TsuWave said:
by the way guys, not every shit manager that has a poor/underwhelming season is suddenly going to turn into Ferguson, Pep, Arteta or Klopp. After seeing it so often with EtH I thought people would have put that argumentation to rest.

It's OK if people have faith/belief in Amorim - again, I like the guy - but argue for him without "Pep, Klopp, Arteta, Ferguson!!" - those were outliers
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Arteta with those? Really?
 
CM said:
The attacking quality in this team is really bad but that is such a damning statistic. You can't excuse a run like that because he's only been able to sign one player, it diminishes the responsibility of a coach to do his job. He's lucky we're still hanging on in Europa otherwise he'd be feeling a lot more pressure right now.
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He should be feeling pressure now, but he suggests he’s been given assurances there is now problem with the results.
No other manager would still be in a job if they had the results of Amorim, none bar maybe Ipswich who were expected to fight relegation.
 
TheNewEra said:
Arteta with those? Really?
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I know right?! But I guess the anchor point of that line of argument is that he turned things around from initially being shit to making them competitive (I assume that's what people are saying), but yeah
 
soapythecat said:
He should be feeling pressure now, but he suggests he’s been given assurances there is now problem with the results.
No other manager would still be in a job if they had the results of Amorim, none bar maybe Ipswich who were expected to fight relegation.
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Don't forget Ange, let's face it he's done worse because he's had way more time than Amorim.
 
Fooza said:
you acknowledged the team isn't good and should be at least midtable which is 10th, but their 14th currently. So the difference is 4 spots currently, what are you are suggesting he isn't good enough and should be gone?

Also, that city side still had goal scorers, we don't. Striker is still issue but most importantly, our whole attack is the issue. Bruno has carried us a lot
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I don't think he's good enough based on the fact that we are barely any better since he's joined and he's been in the job since November. We struggled in majority of the games he's been in charge in the league. The only non-relegated team we beat in like the last 3 months is Fulham and that was turgid game only won because of a huge deflection on a speculative effort from Martinez. Even fecking Southampton played us off the park for like 60-70mins and they are one of the worst teams ever in the PL. So, no I don't think he's doing nearly enough to stay in the job beyond this season.
 
Usual extremes on here.

There have been glimpses of positives and its perfectly reasonable to think any manager deserves at least one summer window and a full pre season of training. All true while also believing that the results we're seeing are simply not good enough. Take out relegation fodder and we've hardly won a match in the league its really alarming and if it continues after a pre season and a transfer window then there's no real strong case to make for Ruben.
 
soapythecat said:
He should be feeling pressure now, but he suggests he’s been given assurances there is now problem with the results.
No other manager would still be in a job if they had the results of Amorim, none bar maybe Ipswich who were expected to fight relegation.
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I meant externally - from fans, media etc. Although I do agree that internally it looks as though he's being given a free ride. The club may be in a mess but I don't like how comfortable he seems with mediocrity/failure.
 
Raoul said:
He will be judged on where we finish, just not this year. The reasons for which have been discussed earlier in this thread.
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He said himself that in order to get time, he had to win games. By that measure he has failed spectacularly. He has been in post 5 months and other than Maguire who out of the first team squad would you say has progressed under his coaching? The squad is bad, I'd argue it isn't this bad and his coaching isn't helping. If he can't get a tune of any type out of these players he is screwed because he isn't going to get a new squad.
 
Fooza said:
Don't forget Ange, let's face it he's done worse because he's had way more time than Amorim.
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Spurs score goals (currently +11gd), and have won a game more. They will go above us and most likely stay above us. Also ripped us apart earlier this season.
I’d take their season over ours - but more enjoyment.
Ange will be sacked EOS.
 
Jev said:
Do you feel confident trusting his vision and letting him shape our squad in order to suit a formation his replacement is very unlikely to play? That’s the issue for me. I don’t want him sacked. Yet. But I think it would be insane to let him get rid of all our wingers while buying specialized players for a formation we could very well abandon by November.
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Regarding transfers I wouldn't worry too much as if the incoming players are quality they will be:
A) able to adapt in different positions (a quality wing back should be able to play in either defence or midfield)
B) able to shift for at least what they we paid for them
 
soapythecat said:
Spurs score goals (currently +11gd), and have won a game more. They will go above us and most likely stay above us. Also ripped us apart earlier this season.
I’d take their season over ours - but more enjoyment.
Ange will be sacked EOS.
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at a cost of what though 1 extra game and some extra goals, that's absolute rubbish considering he's had a whole season and a half over Amorim with transfers and a summer pre-season. Little important things managers need
 
IWat said:
He said himself that in order to get time, he had to win games. By that measure he has failed spectacularly. He has been in post 5 months and other than Maguire who out of the first team squad would you say has progressed under his coaching? The squad is bad, I'd argue it isn't this bad.
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What else would one expect a manager to say ? "I can lose many games this year and its ok, because I have two years to begin winning again".

He correctly managed expectations for fans early in the season, and if we're going by SJR's recent comments in the BBC interview, Amorim is going to have a transfer budget to build his squad this summer. This was never going to be a situation where he's dropped in mid season and sacked a few months later. It was at least a two year plan inclusive of buying players that suit Amorim's system.
 
CM said:
I meant externally - from fans, media etc. Although I do agree that internally it looks as though he's being given a free ride. The club may be in a mess but I don't like how comfortable he seems with mediocrity/failure.
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He’s had a way easier ride than Ole, Moyes, ETH and even Jose. I get he’s a likeable guy (Ole was though) but it’s ridiculous how he gets away with a free pass.
I can only think even the media have accepted us loosing half our games, just like half the Caf has.
 
fen4e said:
Regarding transfers I wouldn't worry too much as if the incoming players are quality they will be:
A) able to adapt in different positions (a quality wing back should be able to play in either defence or midfield)
B) able to shift for at least what they we paid for them
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The reason why we need wingbacks in the first place is that we don’t believe players can necessarily adapt to a new position.
 
Raoul said:
Ok. Any win.

Lets not get caught up in semantics that distract from the overarching point.

Fans complain after losses and the complaints subside following wins.
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To be fair they're very few and far between.
 
Woziak said:
He’ll. be gone by November 1st, he’s massively out of his depth and when Athletico Bilbao make his system look what it is, a complete Cluster F…then Fans will turn very quickly on him.

You don’t not win 16 matches out of 22 in the EPL unless your a defensive inexperienced coach, those same players performed much better in the Previous seasons under ETH.

Let’s just think about this for one second, our current coach loses or draws nearly 75% of premier league matches that he manages, nearly 75%?

I hate to moan because I supported Amorim but he was flexible at Sporting, he would change his system in game, he would play wingers at wing backs.

There are so many superior coaches in the PL alone who deserve their chance, Ruben is not the guy, he won’t win the EL as his European record is genuinely poor.

How can the Wolves.coach win 9 from 16 PL(56%) matches playing the same system with the same players who had previously won 2 from 16 PL matches and our Portuguese wonder coach has ostracised some of his best players, imagine joining Man United and then a few weeks later saying it’s the word side in the history of the club?
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Agreed. Even if we overcome Bilbao we have already lost 3 games against Spurs and can't cope with their pace. Amorim is clueless.
 
IWat said:
He said himself that in order to get time, he had to win games. By that measure he has failed spectacularly. He has been in post 5 months and other than Maguire who out of the first team squad would you say has progressed under his coaching? The squad is bad, I'd argue it isn't this bad and his coaching isn't helping. If he can't get a tune of any type out of these players he is screwed because he isn't going to get a new squad.
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The squad is nowhere near as bad as results. The one undoubted problem is that we lack goals, but that doesn't explain why we've conceded 53 since Ruben came in, and on 15 occasions in 33 games have conceded 2 or more.

Im hopeful he can turn things around, but genuinely concerned by these results.
 
TsuWave said:
What are you babbling about?

Me: a manager at this level should be able to grind results. It's the job
You: is there a club press release that says that?
Me: what are you even saying? you don't think getting results is the manager's job? cool, have a good day
You: Klopp, Arteta, Pep and Ferguson say hello
Me: ???

is it crack cocaine?
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I guess you prefer to make up my remarks rather than quote me directly so they suit you better at avoiding the question

Not sure why you are so aggressive and rude. Come back when you've chilled out.
 
NZT-One said:
Yeah had surely nothing to do with the City squad being designed for years and a well oiled machine longe before that. Its all about adaptabilty. You'd have a point with the analogy when United had something to build up on. But there wasn't. We sucked under ETH. We sucked under Ole. We weren't creating good chances, we weren't controlling the ball, we weren't controlling opposition chances.
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His top scorers in the league for the two seasons prior to Haaland joining were De Bruyne and Gundogan. Sure he had more time to get those players in but he adapted his system to those and didnt blame all his shortcomings on not having a striker like some posters here are doing with our squad and Amorim. And no, I'm not drawing any similarities in the quality of both the squads. Theirs was vastly superior. Just saying that one has shown himself to be adaptable while the other hasn't and has put us near relegation zone.
NZT-One said:
So have the players. And now what? Rolling the dice another time? I haven't seen people around who propagate Amorim doing a stellar job. He deserves criticism for some decisions, fair play. But what to do now. If there is no plan in place, there is simply no point in throwing the towel.
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I'm just saying it can be both. Few players don't deserve to remain at the club beyond this season but so does Amorim too based on what he has shown so far. If he was worth his salt we'd fare a lot better rather than just scrape through wins against only the relegated teams.
 
In regards to the "he needs his own players" argument, he only really needs a chance to replace Sancho and Rashford for me to believe we will at least be a decent side again.

Every team has a couple of star players upfront that drag them through a season and those two above are meant to be ours on something like 300k+ a week. Change those two for two top class attackers on 200k+ a week who earn their money and we will instantly be challenging for the champions league spots which is a start.

We were already light without Sancho, Rashford and Anthony but losing Amad just was just the death blow.

We don't have a single player that can score regularly from open play bar maybe Amad who looks like he could do it.

EDIT: For example put Brentford's two best attackers in Wissa and Mebuemo in for any two of our front three and you would have to think we easily beat Forrest, city, Lyon twice and wolves in the last 6 games, Only Newcastle would have beaten us.
 
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I still don't think there's much he can do with such limited attacking players in the squad. We genuinely have the worst attacking options in the league outside of the bottom three.
 
Getting from 4th to 1st is immessurably more difficult than getting from 14th to 10th.

To get from 4th to 1st you basically have to get everything right, have the right players at the right positions, play in a way that suits your players, outsmart the opponents, and have super confidence to win most games. You also need luck, of course, to have few injuries to key players.

To get from 14th to 10th is much easier. You just need a few wins. The bottom teams rarelly win. It is the inverse of the top-4, at top 4, if you have three straight losses you may drop out of top 4 entirelly. At the 14th spot, three straight loses do not mean much, it is about the norm.

Now, if Amorim is not capable of getting us from 14th to 10th with these players, how can anyone believe that he can get us from 4th to 1st (in the far future, not next year)? It does not seem reasonable to expect that.
 
The results are concerning, but I’m prepared to give him the time. I’m not judging him based on stats but based on what I watch every week, and that is constant individual mistakes, players lacking quality in key areas and poor decision making.

I think the fundamentals have improved under him. We fight finally, we can exert more control over games, we play some nice football at times. But always we mess key situations up and it costs us. And I’m not talking about the obvious mistakes (eg vs Newcastle) but picking the wrong option when we do get into certain positions in attack. It’s a lottery based on whether we can get Bruno into these situations as he’s the only one that seems to have the quality needed right now. Add more quality players and I do believe it’ll transform us.

For me the system and tactics isn’t an issue, but it’s what our players do with the situations that it presents. I just can’t ignore the blatant lack of quality in some of these players, which has been properly exposed now that we’re trying to implement a more modern approach rather than kick it in behind and run after it like dogs, then try to run back as quickly as possible to prevent our isolated defenders from being destroyed, which is what both Ole and ETH effectively tried to do.
 
He’s the worst manager we’ve had post Ferguson. Just because he’s friendly and a good talker shouldn’t be justification for keeping him.

I’ve seen literally nothing since November to suggest he’s the right man for the job
 
NZT-One said:
But we didn't have exotic managers before and look where squad composition led us until right now! Wingers who aren't facilitating for others, nor score, nor working for the team (Rash, Sancho). With fullbacks that do nothing in attack, one ballwinner who isn't considered immobile, no striker who scores and two weak AMs having to play in midfield. The mess is here right now. It seems like you are worried about the mess it could be at the end of some process that hasnt even started. Once again - lets not act as if Amorims systems requires the most exotic players possible out there. It doesn't. This is just no valid point in my eyes apart from the wingbacks who, as another poster said, can be "recycled" as wingers or fullbacks or/and be sold.


It isn't in my eyes. We are years behind most of our rivals when it comes to collective principles. We have to force this evolution as soon as possible to get further away from the pack as it is. There are next to no players in this squad who are irreplacable, nothing in the way we play is worth conserving because it works so well. People are always asking whether we need another rebuild, another batch of new player - the issue is that never really finish one but always leave to much of the old guard around to make it opportune to fall back into old habits. I see your point and of course, if a manager comes in who can improve player we already have, even better but at some point we have to stop acting as if most of them are "very good we only have to unlock them". No. They aren't.


Yeah had surely nothing to do with the City squad being designed for years and a well oiled machine longe before that. Its all about adaptabilty. You'd have a point with the analogy when United had something to build up on. But there wasn't. We sucked under ETH. We sucked under Ole. We weren't creating good chances, we weren't controlling the ball, we weren't controlling opposition chances.

So have the players. And now what? Rolling the dice another time? I haven't seen people around who propagate Amorim doing a stellar job. He deserves criticism for some decisions, fair play. But what to do now. If there is no plan in place, there is simply no point in throwing the towel.
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Mate as much as I’d love Amorim to do a complete rebuild and for us to be successful like before you have factor in that he has only won three games against teams outside of the bottom three who are such a long way behind the other 17 clubs.

You also have to factor in that Amorim is horribly stubborn tactically to the point he refuses to change anything and even said himself that he will play his tactics until the very end, Amorim simply refuses to even tweak anything even when we’re struggling.

It was clear for a long time that ETH wasn’t going to work but what he did do was play one way when he came in with what he had then tried to play his way after spending money the next summer although from the start of the second season it was clear it wasn’t going to work, ETH did though change things tactically which is what Amorim should do to get results and build confidence.

We always needed someone like Ancelotti though as he is a brilliant man manager, gets more out of players that their ability should allow, experienced, tactically flexible, commands respect and would have provided a solid foundation to work from. Results can’t go on as they are as it’ll kill us financially and if Amorim can’t produce results and doesn’t win Europa I don’t see him making it past Christmas and then we’re back to square one.
 
Ted Lasso said:
I guess you prefer to make up my remarks rather than quote me directly so they suit you better at avoiding the question

Not sure why you are so aggressive and rude. Come back when you've chilled out.
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I don’t know what you’re on about. I specifically said to you that I didn’t know what you were trying to say in your post - and rather than elaborating/clarifying you called me disingenuous - and I’m the one that’s rude? That doesn’t compute.

I made a simple assertion that a manager at this level should be able to grind results with the tools available. It’s the job. A manager is supposed to manage. Seldom do they have optimal conditions in terms of playing squad etc. Contextually, for Amorim, no one’s expecting a title challenge, but we’ve won less than a third of our league games under him.

You replied asking if there’s a press release from the club stating that’s the job - which read as bad faith, and I said if you don’t think the manager’s job is getting results - I got nothing else for you, have a good day. You reply with “disingenuous” and then start to talk about Pep, Klopp Arteta and Ferguson having poor starts. What?
 
soapythecat said:
He’s had a way easier ride than Ole, Moyes, ETH and even Jose. I get he’s a likeable guy (Ole was though) but it’s ridiculous how he gets away with a free pass.
I can only think even the media have accepted us loosing half our games, just like half the Caf has.
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That's exactly what has happened.

That's partially because of the terrible situation we were already in when ETH left. But mostly because of the narrative set by INEOS. When new owners outright say the team is in a terrible situation, we have years of rebuilding to do, the recruitment structure at the club needs a complete overhaul and the squad is full of mistakes we're still paying for, then they massively lower expectations.

Even more so when the new manager they hire immmediately starts saying it's the worst team in the club's history, that the fans will have to endure pain and suffering for the rest of the season, that he's introducing a system now with next season in mind, etc. Because that suggests INEOS were similarly-minded when they made the appointment.

And then you have the decisions to send the likes of Rashford and Antony out of the club without replacing them, sanctioned by INEOS. Which again suggest the impact on this season matters less to the people running the club than trying to shift these players.

You can't blame fans or the media for being dismissive of this season's results when the people running the club set that tone.
 
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