Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Deco10Legend]

Has any of Europe's top teams had a season this shit after appointing a new manager. Please enlighten me.

I have to say Amorims negative talk from day one has created this situation and left us exposed and looking evener weaker than before.
1. Not wanting to join mid season. We were only 10 games in and there was plenty to go at. This is a shit excuse.
2. Inability to adapt to the premier league. Sticking to a system that isn't working is not the making of a great manager. Surely he should have put results before anything this season and worked on the new system preseason.
3. Publicly stating this is the worst team in Uniteds history. This simply demotivates anyone and everyone in the team and strengthens the opposition. Why would you do this.

It's an embarrassment to him and the club when we end up finishing 15th or less. No excuse for this. Like I said have any of Europe's top teams performed so badly after a new manager coming in.

He'll be gone 7 or 8 games into next season. And yes I would love egg on my face.

Yeh I don’t get why Amorim talks so negatively.
Sure honesty is good but it can affect player morale and confidence.

I mean in contrast look at Vitor Pereira’s positiveness, sure winning helps but if amorim’s is constantly talking about being shit and the worst well chances are players are going to believe that.

 

[GaryLifo]

And on the other side of the coin we have people who will blindly back a manager regardless of all the evidence in front of our eyes.

I’d say the risk free position is to slag off the player at the moment because heaven forbid you question the manager at the moment. Maybe if we were quicker to act on managers out of their depth we wouldn’t be on course to finish 17th.

Funnily enough, that first post was from a thread saying our squad was the strongest it had been in years.

I stand by my points though. All those who wanted ten Hag fired because they thought a new manager would instantly fix everything were wrong.

I have no issue with ten Hag going when he did as he'd had enough time at that point. When I made my post it was a couple of games into the season.

I agree that slagging players is also a risk free option and I'm not doing that either. I happen to think the recruitment this summer was pretty decent. I can see Ugarte, De Ligt, Mazraoui and Yoro in a successful united team/squad. Maybe even Zirkzee too. I'm not even ready to give up on hojlund as long as he is used as backup to a quality senior striker. I think Heaven looks like a bargain and Dorgu, while clearly still adjusting to the league, has shown some good things too.

The reason this manager needs time IMO is because he's not had much yet and for me has still put the structure in place that I can see has the chance to succeed with a few upgrades.

 

[Ayoba]

We're at a stage now where losing in the PL is a normal occurrence. It's so bad that it's impossible to predict when our next PL win will be, if at all.

The Europa league is a lottery at this stage and if Bilbao don't I can't see spurs easily beating us.

It's been nothing short of a disaster unfortunately.

 

[acnumber9]

I stand by my points though. All those who wanted ten Hag fired because they thought a new manager would instantly fix everything were wrong.

I have no issue with ten Hag going when he did as he'd had enough time at that point. When I made my post it was a couple of games into the season.

I agree that slagging players is also a risk free option and I'm not doing that either. I happen to think the recruitment this summer was pretty decent. I can see Ugarte, De Ligt, Mazraoui and Yoro in a successful united team/squad. Maybe even Zirkzee too. I'm not even ready to give up on hojlund as long as he is used as backup to a quality senior striker. I think Heaven looks like a bargain and Dorgu, while clearly still adjusting to the league, has shown some good things too.

The reason this manager needs time IMO is because he's not had much yet and for me has still put the structure in place that I can see has the chance to succeed with a few upgrades.

You have to earn time. If a new manager comes in and does this much worse than the previous guy that proved not good enough then massive alarm bells should be ringing. Performances have been dire.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Have any of Europe's top teams had the decade we've just had?

Yes, they have. It's not that unusual.

Inter went on a serious downturn after winning the treble in 2010. Over the next 9 seasons their average league position was 5.4 and their average point tally was 63.7. Conte was appointed after this, and he finished 2nd with 82 points, and 1st with 91 points in his two seasons.

AC Milan also went on a serious downturn after their 2011 league title. Over the next 8 seasons their average league position was 5.9 and their average point tally was 64.1. Pioli was appointed early/mid season, they finished 6th with 66 points in that season, then 2nd with 79 points, and then 1st with 86 points.

Liverpool were not very good in the decade before Klopp joined the club. Their average league position in the 10 previous seasons was 4.8 and their average point tally was 69.2. Klopp was appointed early/mid season and they finished 8th with 60 points, then 4th with 76, 4th with 75, 2nd with 97, and finally 1st with 99.

By comparison, United's average league position from Ferguson's departure to the end of last season is 4.72 and the average point tally is 68.09. Almost exactly the same as Liverpool. Klopp, hired mid-season, finished 3 positions and 9 points behind 10-year average, and 2 positions and 2 points behind the previous season. United, by comparison, are currently 9 positions behind their average, and 6 below the previous season, and at this rate will finish the season over 20 points below average and 12-18 below the previous season.

 

[Frank White]

I'm surprised that so many people can't see the big improvements in the way we play now.

We've recently been the better team against several sides who have been taking the piss against us in the last few years, creating 30 chances a game against us. I'd even argue we were better than Newcastle in the first half before it fell apart.

I actually enjoyed watching us play yesterday too. I saw a team of players who looked comfortable in the system and were clearly the better team for pretty much the entire match.

I can see how 3-4 upgrades in key positions will start turning these performances into wins.

A keeper, a ball carrying athletic midfielder, a clever number 10 who can score and assist and a clinical striker.

Which ones?

 

[cpresc]

Why is it just his system that gets figured out?

How come the other systems, despite being around for decades, are unfigurable?

Because he is showing to be more rigid than other managers

Furthermore, this system seems to require quite a few specialist players so is potentially a greater sunken cost

 

[DJ_21]

The difference being that their manager went in and improved them from day one.

Also the difference being he started with a team miles better than ours. We’ve gone through like 5 different managers with different styles so they’ve signed different types of players.

 

[Champ]

I agree with players looking uncomfortable, but there is reason why Ten Hag mentioned that he could not implement the Ajax style here and throughout his tenure there was no resemblance of a playing styles.

We never looked like a team under Ten Hag, the players are still doing the very same mistakes now that they did then.

I wouldn’t go as far as saying the formation has been found out already when we haven’t even fully implement it with the right set of players

These players are adaptable, they all play different roles for their respective national teams, the damning indictment on this formation is every team knows to push our wingbacks back into a defensive five to nullify near enough any attacking outlet we have.

I'm fully behind the manager still but things need to start with a bang next season otherwise it's another wasted season.

 

[GaryLifo]

You have to earn time. If a new manager comes in and does this much worse than the previous guy that proved not good enough then massive alarm bells should be ringing. Performances have been dire.

I don't think the last dozen or so have been dire though, that's my point. Results have been mostly shit, but not the way we've played. I've seen a lot of things that have improved in the structure of the team, the way we defend (most of the time) and the patterns of play when we do get forward, even if we don't finish the chances.

If we'd beaten arsenal, forest, city and wolves like we probably should have, I'm not sure this thread has people criticising the performances even if they were identical but for scoring a couple of goals

 

[Mickeza]

The idea we’re just one magic striker away from it all clicking is absurd to me considering we conceded 6 goals across two legs against Lyon including giving up a two goal lead at home during a 40 minute spell that saw us go from 2-0 up to 4-2 down against 10 men at home in what was one of the most abject, pathetic periods of a match that we’ve seen in the last 10 years given the occasion and quality of team we were facing. I fail to see how anyone can watch our displays at Newcastle and Lyon in the last two weeks and think anything other than we’re fecking miles off the required standard everywhere and for this system to ever work under this manager hundreds of millions will need to be spent. There was a 6 week spell before Lyon where it seemed like we were gradually improving from an admittedly absurdly low bar but overall it’s gone about as bad as it could possibly go domestically - we could literally have gone with no manager after ETH got sacked and the league results wouldn’t be any worse - it’s been that bad. He’s in massive trouble next year if this form continues - it’s been nowhere near good enough and he’s been here long enough to now share some of the responsibility for it.

 

[Wumminator]

There’s absolutely no reason to back him is there? He seems sound, he seems intelligent but there’s nothing results wise he has done that suggests it’ll be better.

I think he’s made a rod for his own back by getting rid of Rashford as well. We’d have more points with him here.

 

[Shark]

Yeh I don’t get why Amorim talks so negatively.
Sure honesty is good but it can affect player morale and confidence.

I mean in contrast look at Vitor Pereira’s positiveness, sure winning helps but if amorim’s is constantly talking about being shit and the worst well chances are players are going to believe that.

Portuguese people are usually very honest, no bullshitting kind of people, they'll say it as it is. He's not going to change.

 

[GaryLifo]

Which ones?

I thought we were better than Forest, Arsenal, City and Wolves. We were also better than Newcastle in the first half.

I'm not saying we pissed all over them, but we barely gave up any chances against any of those teams and we also missed really good chances to score ourselves.

Everyone said arsenal and city would hammer us. They thought Forest would score 3 or 4. There were plenty who said wolves would take the piss yesterday and win easily.

I saw plenty say Sociedad would win at old Trafford and that Lyon would knock us out.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I thought the same thing this morning funnily enough. I didn't post this consensus on Thursday night as I thought Amorim and the team were responsible for the result but when you critically assess the perceived danger of the team, the players are more threatening when going gung ho.

It's the exact reason why Erik Ten Hag won the FA cup last season with the Liverpool fixture a prime example. Tactics, organisation and philosophy out the window it's essentially the players using their own intuition to score.

I have said for weeks now that I can't see Amorim being a success and this is one of the primary reasons, his system is bearing very little fruit. I would have loved even if United were negative and defensively responsible but even in a game where the team is playing against 10 men, the manager still has 5 defenders on the pitch and if you count the defensive orientated midfielder it's a tally of 6 defensive players across 10 positions.

So no matter how fans frame it we cannot be surprised at the teams lackluster ability to score or to offer any form of penetration against the opposition because on average the manager is fielding a team where 60-70% of outfield players are defensive in every single fixture.

It's very frustrating but the more time progresses the stronger my convictions about Amorim are and without being boastful I had the same reservations about Erik during the infancy of his second season. The reservations differ in terms of criteria behind what's letting both managers down but on the surface it's fundamentally the same issue insufficient tactical approaches.

Yeeep.

The main indifference is people think when we complain about Amorim is just about back 3. But fundamentally it's about Amorim putting more players whose profile are not attacking in the team.

We can play 433 but if the back 4 is the normal basic players. Dalot, Maguire,MDL,Dorgu
Then the 3 midfielders is Casemiro, Ugarte, Martinez,
That's having 7 defensive outfield players. It's not a formation problem but a player profile problem which is being done by the managers.

So Amorim self inflicted problem is he plays very defensive players.
A 433 of Klopp, Pep, Ancelotti, Arteta are all different in playing style but the formation is same.

So in as much as back 3 is a flawed formation in EPL
Amorim has handbraked himself by putting many defensive players in the starting 11.

I said like 2 months ago
'Amorim is like driving a car with handbrake on, the car will move but will be on limp mode'

Thus, when the team ditches the tactics instructions from him ( when we chase a game) you see we attack through sheer instincts

 

[acnumber9]

Also the difference being he started with a team miles better than ours. We’ve gone through like 5 different managers with different styles so they’ve signed different types of players.

Forest had a team miles better than ours? What a load of bollocks.

 

[acnumber9]

I don't think the last dozen or so have been dire though, that's my point. Results have been mostly shit, but not the way we've played. I've seen a lot of things that have improved in the structure of the team, the way we defend (most of the time) and the patterns of play when we do get forward, even if we don't finish the chances.

If we'd beaten arsenal, forest, city and wolves like we probably should have, I'm not sure this thread has people criticising the performances even if they were identical but for scoring a couple of goals

But you also thought Ten Hag should get all of this season. You’re a cult of the manager type.

 

[Deco10Legend]

Portuguese people are usually very honest, no bullshitting kind of people, they'll say it as it is. He's not going to change.

I’m Portuguese, i know but not every Portuguese manager says the things Amorim says.

If a Porto coach or President starts yapping about us being the worst shit ever I would be annoyed.

AVB certainly isn’t saying that shit about Porto, and we are indeed one of the worst Porto teams ever.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

If you can't score… Don't concede

Amorim's Man Utd concede comfortably the most goals per game of any manager since Sir Alex Ferguson

Amorim's Man Utd side are comfortably the leakiest of any iteration since Sir Alex Ferguson left the club 12 years ago.

Conceding more than 1.5 goals a game puts him even ahead of Rangnick's sorry interim reign in 2022,

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-team-in-premier-league-after-wolves-defeat

 

[GaryLifo]

But you also thought Ten Hag should get all of this season. You’re a cult of the manager type.

Yes I thought they'd not sack him having backed him in the summer. That's based upon an assumption that the new leadership team would not want to look like idiots for having kept him on.

I'm not sure how wanting Amorim to get a fair crack and that I'm seeing good things in the way we're playing makes me cult of the manager, but if that's your best argument then I'll draw a line under responding to you again.

 

[pcaming]

Many on here will back the manager until he is sacked, which is admirable but ultimately foolish.

I would be willing to ignore the lack of goals if we were better in other areas, but we are also bad defensively and don’t control games. Lack of improvement there is on him and that is something I don’t think can be addressed in the summer.

I haven’t seen the managerial genius some people on here seemingly are. He may not have ideal players, but he should do better. This stubbornness is telling me in the deep end next season, even if we do improve, we will fall short because he is 1 dimensional.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

The difference being that their manager went in and improved them from day one.

Pep walked into a team that had recently won the league. Liverpool have an established side which he has not had to change, we will see if he is good if he actually tries to do that. Arteta has been given a lot of time and they still haven't won much. They were mainly Top 4 finishers anyway. Chelsea spend money for fun. They are also clubs with competent management set up around the coach. We have had bankers running the show and owners draining money from the club.

 

[Posh Red]

This way of thinking is amusing as it points to a complete lack of awareness and common sense.

We literally only 10 months ago kept a manager due to him winning an FA cup, despite league form being appalling (yet still far better than our current position). And less than a year later we now have people saying the league doesn't matter as long as we win the EL. Whilst at the same time acknowledging it was a mistake to keep Ten Hag.

You realise they are two different managers?

 

[soapythecat]

If you can't score… Don't concede

Amorim's Man Utd concede comfortably the most goals per game of any manager since Sir Alex Ferguson

Amorim's Man Utd side are comfortably the leakiest of any iteration since Sir Alex Ferguson left the club 12 years ago.

Conceding more than 1.5 goals a game puts him even ahead of Rangnick's sorry interim reign in 2022,

https://www.skysports.com/football/...ng-team-in-premier-league-after-wolves-defeat

Not Amorim’s fault apparently.

 

[acnumber9]

Yes I thought they'd not sack him having backed him in the summer. That's based upon an assumption that the new leadership team would not want to look like idiots for having kept him on.

I'm not sure how wanting Amorim to get a fair crack and that I'm seeing good things in the way we're playing makes me cult of the manager, but if that's your best argument then I'll draw a line under responding to you again.

You’ll draw a line under it because you have no argument. You’ve shown you’ll blindly back any manager regardless of what actually happens on the pitch.

 

[acnumber9]

Pep walked into a team that had recently won the league. Liverpool have an established side which he has not had to change, we will see if he is good if he actually tries to do that. Arteta has been given a lot of time and they still haven't won much. They were mainly Top 4 finishers anyway. Chelsea spend money for fun. They are also clubs with competent management set up around the coach. We have had bankers running the show and owners draining money from the club.

I was referring to Forest. Given we’re likely to finish 17th.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Yes I thought they'd not sack him having backed him in the summer. That's based upon an assumption that the new leadership team would not want to look like idiots for having kept him on.

I'm not sure how wanting Amorim to get a fair crack and that I'm seeing good things in the way we're playing makes me cult of the manager, but if that's your best argument then I'll draw a line under responding to you again.

The decision in keeping on ETH and then spending even more money for his players and his chaotic way of playing has been a disaster for the club. Why can't some people see that. Let's sack another manager and give the players another chance. Bloody hell. We need a clearout.

 

[stepic]

They do it because it's a risk free position to slag the manager and call for his head. If he does fail after now time they can claim to be right all along, but if he succeeds they'll shamelessly enjoy the good times while not mentioning the 200 posts they made after every bad result.

I have no issue with people having the opinion that Amorim isn't the one or isn't getting it right. But when they resort to shite like 'out of his depth' or 'Spoofer' etc is when the line is crossed for me.

If he succeeds, and I still think he will, this thread should be used to name and shame the abusive posters who are slagging the manager now.

100% I’ll be naming and shaming next season, if they haven’t all deleted their posts of course, which would be par for the course for this kind of nonsense mentality.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

On one hand you look at his record so far and it's impossible to deny that it's awful. In isolation he deserves to be sacked for it. Never mind not being acceptable for a Manchester United manager, it wouldn't be seen as good enough for a Bournemouth or Palace.

On the other you look at what he has in attack compared to those sides and it's understandable that we can't score goals so naturally aren't going to win many games. This is a problem that's been blatantly obvious for years and been allowed to get worse instead of being fixed. That's not his fault, even since he came in he's had to make do without our 2 best attackers for the majority of that time. In that sense I don't really blame him for being a bit more defensive than we'd like because having another attack-minded player out there won't make much difference when none of them are good enough anyway. So attempting to limit chances conceded instead is fair enough for now.

The problem is that unless this squad can be rebuilt with at least 4 or 5 first team signings I don't really see the point in him staying. He won't adapt his system to these players and too many of them aren't capable of playing in it, so it benefits neither him or the club to continue without those additions. Can we afford to bring them in though? Can our targets even be convinced to sign by Amorim considering what he's shown so far?

If we don't get this summer spot on then I fear that this kind of season becomes the norm. The first decision that has to be correct is the manager, at the moment I can't really say that I have any idea on what the right answer is though.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I was referring to Forest. Given we’re likely to finish 17th.

Just shows though that things can turn around. Now if it would have done with Steve Cooper we will never know. Next season Forest might sink like a stone. You get unexpected teams can have this sort of season and then go back to what would be perceived as their level. You get teams who win the league and either get relegated or flirt with it the next season.

 

[acnumber9]

Just shows though that things can turn around. Now if it would have done with Steve Cooper we will never know. Next season Forest might sink like a stone. You get unexpected teams can have this sort of season and then go back to what would be perceived as their level. You get teams who win the league and either get relegated or flirt with it the next season.

Yeah, but they improved right away. We’ve got worse.

 

[ron86]

This way of thinking is amusing as it points to a complete lack of awareness and common sense.

We literally only 10 months ago kept a manager due to him winning an FA cup, despite league form being appalling (yet still far better than our current position). And less than a year later we now have people saying the league doesn't matter as long as we win the EL. Whilst at the same time acknowledging it was a mistake to keep Ten Hag.

Ten hag was in his 3rd season playing worse than ever with 100s of millions spent. Amorim was brought in to a dreadful side struggling in 14th mid season with only a single January signing. Let's not pretend both scenarios are remotely the same

 

[AndySmith1990]

The decision in keeping on ETH and then spending even more money for his players and his chaotic way of playing has been a disaster for the club. Why can't some people see that. Let's sack another manager and give the players another chance. Bloody hell. We need a clearout.

Your first paragraph is exactly what some people are now starting to insinuate we should repeat for Amorim.

1. Players are solely to blame
2. Manager requires lots of time and his own players that fit his system before we can fairly judge him
3. League position is irrelevant as long as we win a cup

 

[GaryLifo]

The decision in keeping on ETH and then spending even more money for his players and his chaotic way of playing has been a disaster for the club. Why can't some people see that. Let's sack another manager and give the players another chance. Bloody hell. We need a clearout.

As I said earlier though, I don't think the recruitment in the summer was too bad. Keeping ten Hag did turn out to be a big mistake though, but I'll hold my hands up and say I felt he deserved one more go after the cup final win.

I've no idea if Amorim will be the one, but I'll continue to argue he needs at least a summer, a few new players and a good chunk of next season to find out.

 

[Marwood]

Yes, they have. It's not that unusual.

Inter went on a serious downturn after winning the treble in 2010. Over the next 9 seasons their average league position was 5.4 and their average point tally was 63.7. Conte was appointed after this, and he finished 2nd with 82 points, and 1st with 91 points in his two seasons.

AC Milan also went on a serious downturn after their 2011 league title. Over the next 8 seasons their average league position was 5.9 and their average point tally was 64.1. Pioli was appointed early/mid season, they finished 6th with 66 points in that season, then 2nd with 79 points, and then 1st with 86 points.

Liverpool were not very good in the decade before Klopp joined the club. Their average league position in the 10 previous seasons was 4.8 and their average point tally was 69.2. Klopp was appointed early/mid season and they finished 8th with 60 points, then 4th with 76, 4th with 75, 2nd with 97, and finally 1st with 99.

By comparison, United's average league position from Ferguson's departure to the end of last season is 4.72 and the average point tally is 68.09. Almost exactly the same as Liverpool. Klopp, hired mid-season, finished 3 positions and 9 points behind 10-year average, and 2 positions and 2 points behind the previous season. United, by comparison, are currently 9 positions behind their average, and 6 below the previous season, and at this rate will finish the season over 20 points below average and 12-18 below the previous season.

To say what's happened to United over the last decade isn't unusual is playing down a reality. It's extremely unusual for a sporting giant like United to collapse on and off the field like it has. Not just in football but across all sports.

We were a dominant force on and off the pitch. In a superb position. One of the top 3 biggest in the world.

Your examples above, well researched but not comparable.

You'd need Barca, Madrid or Bayern to collapse like we have to get an adequate comparison. But that won't happen.

Amorim has inherited a complete mess. I don’t see the point in playing that down.

Because he is showing to be more rigid than other managers

Furthermore, this system seems to require quite a few specialist players so is potentially a greater sunken cost

Can you name me 5 specialist wingbacks who are incapable of being a fullback or a winger?

 

[stepic]

This way of thinking is amusing as it points to a complete lack of awareness and common sense.

We literally only 10 months ago kept a manager due to him winning an FA cup, despite league form being appalling (yet still far better than our current position). And less than a year later we now have people saying the league doesn't matter as long as we win the EL. Whilst at the same time acknowledging it was a mistake to keep Ten Hag.

Do you usually make points with no context whatsoever? Like noting that ETH had 2 1/2 years and £600m spent compared to Amrom’s half season and no summer transfer window? Expectations differ depending on time and money spent, this isn’t difficult.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Which ones.

City and Liverpool come to mind.

 

[Gavinb33]

100% I’ll be naming and shaming next season, if they haven’t all deleted their posts of course, which would be par for the course for this kind of nonsense mentality.

Oh the shame of being wrong on the internet how will I ever face the day, go touch some grass or something there is life outside an internet forum

And for the last time I want to be fecking wrong

 

[Marwood]

There’s absolutely no reason to back him is there? He seems sound, he seems intelligent but there’s nothing results wise he has done that suggests it’ll be better.

I think he’s made a rod for his own back by getting rid of Rashford as well. We’d have more points with him here.

He's scored one league goal since leaving.

 

[stepic]

Oh the shame of being wrong on the internet how will I ever face the day, go touch some grass or something there is life outside an internet forum

And for the last time I want to be fecking wrong

The irony when this thread is about 75% people moaning about Amorim every week with literally the same 3 or 4 arguments