I’m torn because he’s our best player by a mile and one of the best in the world. However it’s hard to ignore a British record offer if it arrived. We can’t just live in fear that our recruitment will be shite forever, at some point that will have to change to turn around our fortunes. I doubt this will happen anyway but let’s see.
Bruno Fernandes Out?
- Thread starter Berbaclass
- Start date
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Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) discuss United's fantastic win away against Athletic Club in the semi-final of the Europa League.
They also pick out the positives of United's 4-3 loss away at Brentford, and Nik reviews a day out at Old Trafford watching Manchester United Women qualify for the Champions League.
I just dont see how we can replace Bruno on top of finding replacements for all the dross in the squad. At least when we sold Ronaldo we still had a squad full of world class players. If we sell Bruno we don't have any.
The supposed interest from Saudi, I don't see that going anywhere, irrespective of how much they bid or if there is a £150m release clause, I cannot see Bruno wanting to leave to go to a Saudi club.
I cannot see any other clubs, who might interest Bruno making a bid north of £75m let alone doubling that, clubs like Bayern, RM or PSG, and I doubt he would go to another PL club.
In terms of actually wanting to sell or not, my gut says absolutely never, seems like the kind of player we should keep around until he retires, despite being near 31 he is probably the fittest player in our squad and rarely gets any injuries, there is every reason to believe he will continue to play at his current level for 3+ more seasons.
In terms of common sense, if we are talking pure goals and assists, even with £150m in your pocket how much would it cost to buy another single player who provides so many goal involvements, yes it could go a long way to funding a big part of a rebuild, amortised it could allow us to buy half a dozen players, but it is that 1 player that offers as much as Bruno that will be very hard to find.
In my mind, the only reason we should sell Bruno even if a club bid the £150m is if he agitates for the move, no point keeping an unhappy player and he deserves the club to respect his wishes, if he doesn't agitate then regardless of the money, is it who we want to be? selling our best player? it hurt when we sold Beckham and Ronaldo and that was when we were at the top, selling Bruno when we are trying to turn the corner from our lowest ebb for me could do a lot of damage.
I cannot see any other clubs, who might interest Bruno making a bid north of £75m let alone doubling that, clubs like Bayern, RM or PSG, and I doubt he would go to another PL club.
In terms of actually wanting to sell or not, my gut says absolutely never, seems like the kind of player we should keep around until he retires, despite being near 31 he is probably the fittest player in our squad and rarely gets any injuries, there is every reason to believe he will continue to play at his current level for 3+ more seasons.
In terms of common sense, if we are talking pure goals and assists, even with £150m in your pocket how much would it cost to buy another single player who provides so many goal involvements, yes it could go a long way to funding a big part of a rebuild, amortised it could allow us to buy half a dozen players, but it is that 1 player that offers as much as Bruno that will be very hard to find.
In my mind, the only reason we should sell Bruno even if a club bid the £150m is if he agitates for the move, no point keeping an unhappy player and he deserves the club to respect his wishes, if he doesn't agitate then regardless of the money, is it who we want to be? selling our best player? it hurt when we sold Beckham and Ronaldo and that was when we were at the top, selling Bruno when we are trying to turn the corner from our lowest ebb for me could do a lot of damage.
He is by far our most important player, for it to be worth us selling we'd have to get an offer of way over 100 million. He's probably not worth that to other teams but he sure as feck is to us, without him I dread to think where we would be.
This wouldn't even be a discussion if not for the Saudis. But even then a long list of events must happen:
1. They actually have to make a bid.
2. The club must then deem this bid high enough to be willing to sell our best and most important player right after his best ever season and us hovering above the relegation zone.
3. Bruno must be willing to both leave the club and semi-retire despite showing no signs of aging.
We live in a strange world so of course it could happen. But it's safe to say that it would be one of the strangest things I've seen happen in football.
1. They actually have to make a bid.
2. The club must then deem this bid high enough to be willing to sell our best and most important player right after his best ever season and us hovering above the relegation zone.
3. Bruno must be willing to both leave the club and semi-retire despite showing no signs of aging.
We live in a strange world so of course it could happen. But it's safe to say that it would be one of the strangest things I've seen happen in football.
As much as i love Bruno, £150m is the kind of fee that helps turn one very good player into potentially four or five very good new first team starters.
We don't need 5 "potentially good" players in the 20-30 million pound price range. Our club is chockfull of potential already.
If you look at the 18 players (starting XI + bench) in the squad who are currently most likely to start a game, 8 of them are under 24 years old! And another 6 are between 24 and 27 years old. That's 14 out of 18 players not even being 28. This is a young team.
What we need is the finished product. Players who hit the ground running and provide quality from day one. Players who can help the 14 players above grow. The finished product is extremely hard to find and will often cost considerably more than than 20-30 million.
No thank you.
There is no replacement for a world class player who can fit Bruno’s mould. The money would be good to buy 2 potential players but as seen this season, it’s a hit and miss. Rather keep Bruno.
There is no replacement for a world class player who can fit Bruno’s mould. The money would be good to buy 2 potential players but as seen this season, it’s a hit and miss. Rather keep Bruno.
There’s not a chance even the Saudis are offering us £150m for a 31 year old, and even if they did the answer should be no. I have my issues over the style of play having Bruno in the team imparts on us. But, he’s still without a doubt our best player.
If the player is intrigued to go and we can get over 120 million for him, then I think it makes sense to look to do a deal at this stage. Would put even more pressure on that recruitment that would have to follow though.
Personally I will be genuinely upset and sad if we sell him. Sure it will be brilliant if get something like £120m+ for him, but he's the one player since SAF left that has actually been MU(the MU we grew up with) quality. But also as I wrote earlier in thread, I love him as a player and person. Seems like a good hearted and great character.
It has to be 200m or nothing. There simply aren't players who could replace him, even for 100m:
- Palmer has the potential, but he's just having a very long period of bad form (at least we know Boehly would probably be crazy enough to sell him).
- Wirtz is never coming to us. 'Bild' just recently revealed that he favors a Bayern move and Uli Hoeness has been meeting his dad on a weekly base to keep track. If Alonso offically becomes a Real coach, he will also try to convince him and in England, City needs a new KDB, too.
- In that case, I would rather try get Musiala. Bayern will be happy to get money to invest and they can sign their new toy Wirtz. Although Musiala is very inconsistent and doesn't have this passion of Bruno's imo. He'd cost a fortune, too.
- I think the only player who would be a worthy successor to Bruno is Pedri, but he likely wouldn't be for sale, and even if we could tempt Barca, it would be a Frenkie 2.0 case as Pedri would want to stay at his dream club. Anyway he's a 150m player.
- Martin Odegaard.. Maybe.
- Xavi Simons would surely be a decent and gettable option, but we'd need an additional CM.
- Cherki is another cheap option but he doesn't feel like a mentality monster and there's doubts whether he'd suit the English tempo
Do you know someone else we could get? Tbh I would rather stick to him.
- Palmer has the potential, but he's just having a very long period of bad form (at least we know Boehly would probably be crazy enough to sell him).
- Wirtz is never coming to us. 'Bild' just recently revealed that he favors a Bayern move and Uli Hoeness has been meeting his dad on a weekly base to keep track. If Alonso offically becomes a Real coach, he will also try to convince him and in England, City needs a new KDB, too.
- In that case, I would rather try get Musiala. Bayern will be happy to get money to invest and they can sign their new toy Wirtz. Although Musiala is very inconsistent and doesn't have this passion of Bruno's imo. He'd cost a fortune, too.
- I think the only player who would be a worthy successor to Bruno is Pedri, but he likely wouldn't be for sale, and even if we could tempt Barca, it would be a Frenkie 2.0 case as Pedri would want to stay at his dream club. Anyway he's a 150m player.
- Martin Odegaard.. Maybe.
- Xavi Simons would surely be a decent and gettable option, but we'd need an additional CM.
- Cherki is another cheap option but he doesn't feel like a mentality monster and there's doubts whether he'd suit the English tempo
Do you know someone else we could get? Tbh I would rather stick to him.
I'd be absolutely gutted but could understand him pushing for the move, the money on the table is insanity.
I absolutely love Bruno and would hate to see him leave, but if we do we need to secure those deals before the sale becomes public.
I don't trust us to spend whatever big sum we get wisely though... this could end up being like Spurs selling Bale
I hope he stays and I think he wants to stay
I don't trust us to spend whatever big sum we get wisely though... this could end up being like Spurs selling Bale
I hope he stays and I think he wants to stay
I did not say anything about 20-30 million price range, I said the £150m would " help " us get 4 or 5 very good players.
The Bruno money alone would not achieve this, but by selling the likes of Rashford, Sancho, Antony etc as well would open the door to 4 or 5 big names who wold come straight into the starting 11.
A club must be able to rebuild when they let go of good players. United should sell if a great offer comes in. I think we have a very young squad and as long as we continue to invest in developing talent, we will be fine.
So why not sell Rashford, Antony and Sancho etc and settle for fewer signings instead? With extremely few exceptions, every great team in the history of modern football have typically had a bare minimum of 3 world class (or bordering to) players. Typically 4, 5 or even more. But we have just one.
It's hard to overstate how difficult it is for any team that isn't Real Madrid to consistently pick up world class players. Even competent PL powerhouses rarely manage this. Hell, just finding a player that goes straight into the starting XI and provides long-term value is difficult. The success rate is probably less than 50%. For us though, the success rate is closer to 10-20%. If we sign 5 players then we are lucky if 1 of them are a hit. But a player of Bruno's level? Our success rate is so low that it's a pure gamble.
So no, we should not sell the one piece of quality we have. There are basically just 3 instances where selling world class players make sense:
1. Real Madrid comes knocking and the player is adamant he wants to leave
2. You are a small club that is happy to just be in the PL and desperately need money.
3. The player has a huge falling out with the manager and/or the manager wants to sell the player.
Memes aside, none of the above fits the Bruno situation.
This is all just to force KdB's hand I think
I knew a guy who was a top sales rep. He had the confidence and the looks of Tom Ellis and the mentality of a stereotypical stockbroker in the 80s (wolf of wall street style). The guy insisted on a 1 year contract deal which needed to be renewed every year. He would wait till the last week only to come in the office with three documents. A- His sales ratio which vastly exceeded that of his colleagues, his list of demands (salary increase, commission increase and other perks including less paper work + less supervision) and his non renewal letter. His former boss would sign it up which in turn would lead to HR having to work around the clock to have everything done and dusted before his contract expired. The situation got so silly that the guy was paid more then his boss or half of the team combined.
One fine day a new director was appointed following a serious concern about employee turnover. The same story happened as per script but this time round this new guy picked the non renewal letter instead. This sales rep was shocked and it even got emotional at one point. However the guy has had enough of the antics and he wanted him out. He figured out that this arrangement made it impossible for the company to hire seasoned sales people and the few rookies left were being burdened with the paperwork the sales rep refused to do.
Bruno is an amazing player and he deserves all the credit he can get. However this is the third consecutive summer were he was being linked heavily with Saudi. Last year he didn't have the best of seasons yet these antics gained him a salary increase at a time when INEOS were focusing on salary cuts. This year new talks of Saudi had re-emerged, on the clock. Which really makes me wonder how long will INEOS tolerate such behavour.
Car crash of a post.
The problem with the analogy is Bruno is volunteering to do everyone else's paperwork, making sales in other peoples names so they can get commission and trying to pay for the tea ladies to have a Christmas party out of his own pocket. He's also not the highest earner, doesn't want a new contract every year and doesn't leave it until the last week.
He's had 2 contract extensions at United in 6 years, that seems pretty normal to me. There's also no actual talk about how he wants a pay rise.
If we get Champions League and are in a position to attract a serious replacement for around a third of the fee we receive for him then maybe it's worth considering. It's true that we've been poor at shifting players for profit and it's the last window Bruno will likely command a 100m+ fee.
That said, I don't think there's a realistic option that comes in and replaces him. He's become a genuine deep-lying playmaker who guarantees goals and assists. We don't have any other guaranteed goals in the squad and we would probably need to bring in an Osimhen, Cunha and midfielder just to cover his loss.
The best argument for keeping him is whether or not we think we're in genuine threat of being relegated next season without him. We would be a hell of a lot closer this season to the drop without him. Dangerously so.
That said, I don't think there's a realistic option that comes in and replaces him. He's become a genuine deep-lying playmaker who guarantees goals and assists. We don't have any other guaranteed goals in the squad and we would probably need to bring in an Osimhen, Cunha and midfielder just to cover his loss.
The best argument for keeping him is whether or not we think we're in genuine threat of being relegated next season without him. We would be a hell of a lot closer this season to the drop without him. Dangerously so.
I wouldn’t trust us to spend any money wisely that we got for him.
I am a bit surprised to see so many thinking he is going to play at this level for 4+ years, and it is a bit of an unfair expectation to put on him. The only attacking midfielder I can name that has continued to play at a great level beyond the age of 33 is Luka Modric. The rest have either retired or regressed heavily between 28-33. Examples are Cantona, Zidane, Iniesta, Kaka, David Silva, Sneijder, Özil, Deco, Coutinho, Bernardo Silva, Aimar, De Bruyne, Guti, van der Vaart, Eriksen, Nasri, Cazorla, Hamsik, Müller, Nedved and more. In fact, Müller is the player that is closest to Bruno in terms of body type, work rate, fitness levels and injury history. An outstanding professional like Bruno, and even had the benefit of rotating much more than our Portuguese has, which has allowed him to play for longer, but even he is not at all close to the player he used to be, so why do so many of you seem to think Bruno can do it? If it was likely, then I presume top clubs would have been circling around us like vultures now.
As for us not being able to replace him; well, yes, that's the downside with aging players, and it goes for every club and every football player. No one escapes it. Real Madrid sold Ronaldo to Juventus for £105m at 33, and he was the second best player in the world. They didn't demand £400m from Juventus because they need to replace him with 3 Ronaldo-quality players. It is unrealistic, and while Bruno is not as good as Ronaldo was, it is also unrealistic to expect a like for like replacement for Bruno, because there are no one as good as him at what he does. Real Madrid have been unable to replace Kroos and Modric, because these players are not around, so they have to adapt, and so do we. The advantage Real Madrid has, is that they have basically an unlimited amount of money to spend in the transfer market, and we have a very limited amount.
Sure, if we were competing for the Premier League or Champions League, I'd keep him because he could be the difference maker, but where do we see ourselves next season? 6th? 9th? 11th? It isn't much of a difference, and by rejecting a £100m+ bid for a player in his early 30s, we are effectively delaying the rebuild of our club. I agree, it should never have reached this point in the first place, but here we are, and it is the incompetence of our previous board's fault, nothing we can do about it now. If we are going to live in the fear of being unable to rebuild with the money we get in, then we may as well just give up.
And just out of curiousity; Alexander Isak for 7 years or Bruno for 2-3? If Isak wanted to come here (yes, Liverpool and Arsenal are more attractive now, but you never know, we are still the biggest club) then the sale of Bruno could effectively work as a trade for Isak, a world class striker at the age of 25, yet to hit his prime and is both a goal scorer and a playmaker in one. It would be like starting over with Bruno again, and maybe even better.
As for us not being able to replace him; well, yes, that's the downside with aging players, and it goes for every club and every football player. No one escapes it. Real Madrid sold Ronaldo to Juventus for £105m at 33, and he was the second best player in the world. They didn't demand £400m from Juventus because they need to replace him with 3 Ronaldo-quality players. It is unrealistic, and while Bruno is not as good as Ronaldo was, it is also unrealistic to expect a like for like replacement for Bruno, because there are no one as good as him at what he does. Real Madrid have been unable to replace Kroos and Modric, because these players are not around, so they have to adapt, and so do we. The advantage Real Madrid has, is that they have basically an unlimited amount of money to spend in the transfer market, and we have a very limited amount.
Sure, if we were competing for the Premier League or Champions League, I'd keep him because he could be the difference maker, but where do we see ourselves next season? 6th? 9th? 11th? It isn't much of a difference, and by rejecting a £100m+ bid for a player in his early 30s, we are effectively delaying the rebuild of our club. I agree, it should never have reached this point in the first place, but here we are, and it is the incompetence of our previous board's fault, nothing we can do about it now. If we are going to live in the fear of being unable to rebuild with the money we get in, then we may as well just give up.
And just out of curiousity; Alexander Isak for 7 years or Bruno for 2-3? If Isak wanted to come here (yes, Liverpool and Arsenal are more attractive now, but you never know, we are still the biggest club) then the sale of Bruno could effectively work as a trade for Isak, a world class striker at the age of 25, yet to hit his prime and is both a goal scorer and a playmaker in one. It would be like starting over with Bruno again, and maybe even better.
What?
And you banned stats posts in the Cunha thread
...Petition to ban pointless, almost certainly fake analogies instead.
Well yes but maybe not. On what we see on the pitch you're 100% right. Bruno seem to be everywhere at every time.
There again I am old enough to remember Eric Cantona in action. He was a great professional, the first to come to the training ground and the last to leave. He would then stop giving autographs to everyone at the Cliff and if he accidently skipped someone and he would notice while driving he would drive back to give him an autograph. Once we played against Juventus and they annihilated us. It was like a boys vs men game. When Lippi was asked to comment about it he said that neutralizing United was quite easy really. All you had to do is take Giggs and Eric out of the game.
When Eric retired rival fans were celebrating especially when they learnt that we replaced the icon with Teddy Sheringham. It would be the modern equivalent of us replacing Bruno with Maddison. Yet in 2 years time we would win the treble. The reason behind that was that United stopped being dependent on Eric and started relying more on themselves, which in turn made us less predictable.
Huge characters like Eric, Ibra and Bruno can dictate the play a team is playing.
It would have to be stupid money and the deal would need to be done in a discreet way to allow us to build the squad without being shafted ourselves.
It's the kind of brave and risky move that can pay off massively, it would come with extreme criticism and pressure from the fans but could pay huge dividends if done right.
Do I trust the executive team to make the most out of such a scenario? No. I think they'd absolutely balls it up. So in that case, I'd rather we kept Bruno.
It's the kind of brave and risky move that can pay off massively, it would come with extreme criticism and pressure from the fans but could pay huge dividends if done right.
Do I trust the executive team to make the most out of such a scenario? No. I think they'd absolutely balls it up. So in that case, I'd rather we kept Bruno.
My point is that this is the third consecutive time his agents leaked that Saudi wants him. This time it came 12 months after he got a pay rise. Clubs don't like this sort of behavior from their players and at nearly 31 and with Al Hillal desperate for a big name signing prior to the club's world cup then there's a risk of United biting the bullet.
Rumoured 1 million a week and knowing he’s probably not going to win a major trophy at United could be major factors. i wouldn’t blame him if he left, nor the club for selling him if they got a magnificent offer. Long term Bruno is just about to start the age related decline and is a very saleable asset right now.
Not sure any of that has anything to do with the point I was making. I'm sure there are ways in which we could replace Bruno and improve, but I'm equally sure Bruno isn't doing anything similar to the salesman in your analogy.
As said before this is the third consecutive time his agents leaked that Saudi wants him. This time it came 12 months after he got a pay rise at a time when INEOS was making it obvious that they want to reduce the salary bill and will refuse to be taken for mugs. Clubs don't like this sort of behavior from their players and at nearly 31 and with Al Hillal desperate for a big name signing prior to the club's world cup then there's a risk of United biting the bullet.
I totally agree you need 2 or 3 World class players but thats only good if you have top class players around them. Add to the fact Brunos age and contract means he will either be done or go on a free in 3 years and you have a dilemma. If we are going to spend big and go for the league in 3 years then yeah keep him. But otherwise whats the point of 1 world class player with dross around him or kids that will mature in 2,3 plus years?
Yeah, not really buying this. A million players are linked with Saudi every year and the first year he was linked with Saudi wasn't even a "will they, won't they" thing, it was announced he'd flat out rejected it after the fact and he didn't get a new contract from it. Bruno has had contract renewals with 2 years left on his contract both times and he's not been one to sign short contracts for constant renewals, and there's absolutely no noise of him wanting a pay rise (and there's zero chance of him getting one) this time around either.
Just seems like a weird fiction you've concocted.
if we were to get a really good offer don’t see why we wouldn’t take it. If he stays what are we achieving with him? It’s not like we’re selling a player who will win us the league or get us top four. He’ll continue to add to his goals and assists and we’ll still be struggling for Europa League places at best.
I also don’t get the view that there is no one that can replace him. We have a failing team, why would we try and recreate it with identical parts. If we had a midfielders who were good on the ball and forwards that can create there would be no need for us to be so dependent on one player for creativity. That is how the team should be rebuilt.
Newcastle nor Villa have a Bruno type player and they score far more goals than we do.
I also don’t get the view that there is no one that can replace him. We have a failing team, why would we try and recreate it with identical parts. If we had a midfielders who were good on the ball and forwards that can create there would be no need for us to be so dependent on one player for creativity. That is how the team should be rebuilt.
Newcastle nor Villa have a Bruno type player and they score far more goals than we do.
Newcastle and Villa would score a lot more goals if they had a Bruno type player, though. Just like we would if we had an Isak/Watkins and a Tielemens/B.Guimaraes.
I shudder to think of our squad without Bruno. We need his experience more than ever for a start, we'll only go out and try and replace him with a 22 year old and we've got enough young players with potential as it is.
Theres a time limit to the deal due to registration for the club world cup, around June?
The links to Cunha, Mbuemo makes sense as we’d want to know replacements are affordable before considering letting him go.
The links to Cunha, Mbuemo makes sense as we’d want to know replacements are affordable before considering letting him go.
This logic would suggest that we shouldn't ever sell anyone. The problem with it is that he's going to leave eventually, and likely only has another couple of years left at the very top level.
If we get offered a huge fee for him then, while sad, the only sensible option is to accept it and reinvest it in the squad. The alternative is that he leaves for pennies in the next few years, and we have to rebuild without any money.
It's a bit like Real Madrid passing on the likes of Varane and Casemiro to us, top players who's fitness and abilities are likely to deteriorate in the near future.
It would hurt but I’d sell. There’s the risk of the club misspending the funds, other clubs inflating their fees because of the perceived windfall and the risk of replacing our heartbeat without proper planning.