Matheus Cunha | Deal close with United (Sky Sports)

Xire01 said:
a panic buy, before the window even opens?

The guy has been excellent all season and is a perfect fit for the number 10 role. Its anything but a panic buy
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If I had amorims record I would be panicking. I think it shows he doesn't have the belief he can get a hard working, pressing team functioning like it did in Portugal, so go and sign a top five non pressing moments player.

If we were in second and needed another option I'd like it. As it is we are one of the worst teams in the league and blowing the bulk of our budget on a player that doesn't fit the approach.

Just my take
 
Crashoutcassius said:
If I had amorims record I would be panicking. I think it shows he doesn't have the belief he can get a hard working, pressing team functioning like it did in Portugal, so go and sign a top five non pressing moments player.

If we were in second and needed another option I'd like it. As it is we are one of the worst teams in the league and blowing the bulk of our budget on a player that doesn't fit the approach.

Just my take
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I dunno mate, ive watched Cunha a lot this year and have been massively impressed everytime. Think he will surprise alot of people
 
pocco said:
Don’t think anybody can say he won’t press. He’s scored goals directly from pressing and winning the ball this season. But ultimately we don’t really know what he’s asked to do at Wolves. In terms of his physical traits I see no reason why he can’t bee dangerous in the press.
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Yeah, this idea basically came from that fecking "% of time walking" meme stat that people like to post every few pages.

If you look at his actual stats for defensive actions, they've been elite every year before this one, where they're still decent. He's pressing less than he used to because he's pretty much Wolves' only outlet as a one man counter attack. At Hertha, Atletico, and even before this season at Wolves, he pressed like a dog. It's tactical.
 
V.O. said:
Yeah, this idea basically came from that fecking "% of time walking" meme stat that people like to post every few pages.

If you look at his actual stats for defensive actions, they've been elite every year before this one, where they're still decent. He's pressing less than he used to because he's pretty much Wolves' only outlet as a one man counter attack. At Hertha, Atletico, and even before this season at Wolves, he pressed like a dog. It's tactical.
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Or from the Wolves fan in here telling us he doesn't press. Hard to decide
 
Crashoutcassius said:
I'm actually pretty disappointed with this. Seems like a panic buy to me given that he doesn't fit many of the criteria Amorim seems to look for.

Also possible he is a player that will thrive being the main man in a smaller team and may struggle here.

I expect Amorim wants a player who might save us points on his own with individual brilliance when the team can't break opposition down, which is nearly all the time. Kinda a classic united signing of the last ten years in that sense, for a big fee.
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A panic buy before the season is over and the window is even open? What? :lol: :lol:
 
Crashoutcassius said:
he doesn't fit many of the criteria Amorim seems to look for.
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This is an odd take, for me.

He's incredibly versatile and can play cross a front three, he's technically very sound and able to receive the ball in tight spaces, he's a very progressive player can dribble through the lines as well as pick a pass and he's been playing as no.10 in a formation very similar if not identical to Amorim's all season. The only issue is he does not seem to be great presser, but with Mount, Fernandes, Amad and possibly Delap playing blocking passing lanes rather than sprinting to close players down may be more effective.

How does he not fit the criteria?
 
Crashoutcassius said:
If I had amorims record I would be panicking. I think it shows he doesn't have the belief he can get a hard working, pressing team functioning like it did in Portugal, so go and sign a top five non pressing moments player.

If we were in second and needed another option I'd like it. As it is we are one of the worst teams in the league and blowing the bulk of our budget on a player that doesn't fit the approach.

Just my take
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Our approach?

Our approach should be finding players that can create goals.

EPL G/As this year (PKs not included)

Salah- 37
Isak- 25
Watkins- 22
Haaland- 22
Cunha- 21
 
Feels like a bit of a maverick - some tremendous qualities which could prove invaluable to the team, but not without his flaws.

For where we currently are - ie 16th in the table, can't score and desperately in need of quality in the final 3rd - getting one of the leagues better forwards who is just about to turn 26, feels like a positive move to me.
 
hellhunter said:
Or from the Wolves fan in here telling us he doesn't press. Hard to decide
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Does it matter? Has that Wolves fan studied his time at previous clubs to know what he’s capable of? Zirkzee became more and more effective in the press until his injury, and Cunha has much better pace, tenacity and endurance than him. So why not? You tell me why he can’t press.
 
Seems like it's close to being done so hopefully Cunha will be real deal. We are desperate for goals and he should provide good amount of them through goals and assists. He'll turn 26 this month so best/prime years should be ahead of him.

Positive thing is starting do do business early. There's no International tournaments this summer so players should be available early if they are willing to come and clubs willing to sell. Also hope Rashford, Sancho and Antony situations will be solved somehow and soon.
 
I'm half/half on this. On one hand a league-proven, goalscoring player at his prime (this part is what I like the most), who clearly wants to play for us, rejecting any approaches from other clubs line Arsenal (at least according to the press). On the other hand, spending another 62m on a player who is hot-headed, doesn't press and had failed to impress prior to joining Wolves (I watched a lot of games when he was playing for Leipzig and he was shite). I reckon he will do well and I hope he proves me wrong about my prejudices regarding his character.
 
I swear people just hedge their bets on negative shite just so they can say I told you so further down the line. How’s about you be patient and, y’know, support the lad coming in to play.
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
I swear people just hedge their bets on negative shite just so they can say I told you so further down the line. How’s about you be patient and, y’know, support the lad coming in to play.
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I swear the forum has been happy about practically every signing we have made the last ten years. That is fine. But everyone that hailed summer after summer as brilliant business were wrong a lot, lot more than they were right. Maybe having a critical eye towards the clubs decisions is going to end up being the more correct approach
 
pocco said:
Does it matter? Has that Wolves fan studied his time at previous clubs to know what he’s capable of? Zirkzee became more and more effective in the press until his injury, and Cunha has much better pace, tenacity and endurance than him. So why not? You tell me why he can’t press.
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I think thinking about the probabilities of him being a good presser is more useful that arguing over whether it is technically possible that a player can press. By that logic we can sign any player in the world for pressing system and then all just be surprised when it isn't good, because it is possible that they all can press
 
Crashoutcassius said:
I swear the forum has been happy about practically every signing we have made the last ten years. That is fine. But everyone that hailed summer after summer as brilliant business were wrong a lot, lot more than they were right. Maybe having a critical eye towards the clubs decisions is going to end up being the more correct approach
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But then to live in a perpetual state of negativity is tiring, even if he does well, there will be people looking for the negatives or he’s only doing well because of x or y
 
I was hoping for a more silky player at AM,

But I think he kind of reminds me of that Bruno Fernandes type player signing.

A player that can do a bit of everything to a very high standard and stand up when we need him the most. We only really have Bruno who can do that for us.

Cunha seems like he can pass, dribble, be energetic, finish, be physical, tackle, take long shots, take corners, header and even have a leadership aura about him.

It's good to have more of that in the squad.

However, I disagree with the fact that he won't ever be used as a ST here. I think he's the perfect player to rotate with Delap which gives Delap the starting striker role but give Cunha the ST role whenever Delap needs to be dropped.

He has experience in that position & i think he even broke through as a CF though I'm not sure.

That's really more to do with Delap than Cunha because Delap is stylistically very similar to the striker Amorim wants & we need to decide if we are going to take a gamble on a young cheap striker that fits the system to a tee or an expensive experienced striker that fits the system to a tee (gyokeres) & alot of strikers that don't.

You could argue that the two best teams in England have both played without a striker.

I think Delap, Cunha, Zirkzee & Obi are enough strikers to get us until the January transfer window to assess our needs again especially when we have put our league expectations quite low at a top 6 finish.
 
Generally like the player and think he'll improve us.

But I think his productivity over the last two seasons is very inflated and unlikely continue. And we're paying a very big fee for him once you expect that productivity to drop off.

So my doubts are less whether he'll be good for us and more whether he'll be so good we'll ultimately think he's worth the money spent.

Ultimately, getting back to the top will require us to successfully sign Cunha-level players (and better) before they reach the point in their career where they cost £62m. Whereas in this case we're paying top market price. So he needs to work out.
 
Judas said:
The fuss about his temperament like he's a fecking head case is so bizarre. I'm actually happy to add another player to the squad who isn't a wet lettuce.
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These are the type of players we are lacking in our squad... I watched Rasmus / Garnacho lose the ball, sulk... rather than them looking at themselves...

He will pick the ball up and try make things happen, we are lacking in aggression in this squad.
 
UnitedSofa said:
But then to live in a perpetual state of negativity is tiring, even if he does well, there will be people looking for the negatives or he’s only doing well because of x or y
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I'm not negative on other potential signings, or dorgu.

I think the plan issue is that Amorim has good players playing much worse than they are. That means people look at players like delap and conclude that they are much better than what we have. I think that will lead to wasting a lot of money.

Cunha is a bit different as he is a moments player so coaching not going to be as relevant I guess. That will improve our results, from a very low base, but not really help our long term plans, and might potentially be a player we need to replace as early as October if we have a new manager that can't have a what appears to be a bit of a luxury 10.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
I think thinking about the probabilities of him being a good presser is more useful that arguing over whether it is technically possible that a player can press. By that logic we can sign any player in the world for pressing system and then all just be surprised when it isn't good, because it is possible that they all can press
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You're making it out as though pressing is some technically advanced aspect of the game, when in reality it is about simple organisation and running, basically. If he had poor pressing stats, there is a question of why? Is he lazy? Is he asked to maintain his energy for attacking transitions? Do the teams he plays for even press?

But regardless of all of that, the other poster pointed out that his pressing stats are actually good prior to this season, at Wolves, Hertha and Atletico. Which doesn't surprise me because, having seen him play numerous times, I can see that he has all of the tools required to actually be very effective at it. Look at some of the goals he has scored alone this season (apparently his worst for running/walking) and you will see that he has scored as a direct result of him pressing the opposition, winning the ball back in a dangerous area, and putting it in the back of the net.

So, you can probably understand why this discussion about him not being a good presser is probably a bit pointless.
 
You still need an effective target man who doesn't flip over everytime you go against the defender. Mateta for e.g. (dont know if Delap can do it ).

Bruno and Cunha behind a target man can make this formation tick.
 
sullydnl said:
Generally like the player and think he'll improve us.

But I think his productivity over the last two seasons is very inflated and unlikely continue. And we're paying a very big fee for him once you expect that productivity to drop off.

So my doubts are less whether he'll be good for us and more whether he'll be so good we'll ultimately think he's worth the money spent.

Ultimately, getting back to the top will require us to successfully sign Cunha-level players (and better) before they reach the point in their career where they cost £62m. Whereas in this case we're paying top market price. So he needs to work out.
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Why is it unlikely to continue? What's this based on?
 
Nothing says panic buy more than working on bringing a player in ahead of the summer window.
 
Great start to the summer if this is done early, also, it seems he wants the move regardless of what happens Wednesday which for me is a good sign.
 
Judas said:
Why is it unlikely to continue? What's this based on?
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There's a threadmark warning against analytics talk, so let's just say the expected vibes aren't sustainable.

Doesn't mean he can't be good for us, especially when you consider how much his ability to go past players could help us in general play. But if someone wanted to offer a bet that his average output over next two seasons will match up to his output over the last two, I'd 100% take it.
 
bond19821982 said:
You still need an effective target man who doesn't flip over everytime you go against the defender. Mateta for e.g. (dont know if Delap can do it ).

Bruno and Cunha behind a target man can make this formation tick.
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I'd like Mateta as well, especially if he can't land Gyokeres who is probably only realistic if we win on Wednesday.
 
Judas said:
The fuss about his temperament like he's a fecking head case is so bizarre. I'm actually happy to add another player to the squad who isn't a wet lettuce.
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People are right to be concerned about it. This season he's had 2 instances of violent conduct in 3 months, including ripping glasses of some bloke's face. If he did that at United, you'd never hear the last of it.

I like having passionate players at United but you need to channel that aggression in the right way, especially in this era of VAR.
 
sullydnl said:
There's a threadmark warning against analytics talk, so let's just say the expected vibes aren't sustainable.

Doesn't mean he can't be good for us, especially when you consider how much his ability to go past players could help us in general play. But if someone wanted to offer a bet that his average output over next two seasons will match up to his output over the last two, I'd 100% take it.
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I feel like this post makes sense to you but not to me. Are you just trying to say he overeperforms on xG so he won't score as many goals next season?
 
He’s definitely not a target man either, whenever we’ve played him at striker it’s not really worked out for him or us, his dangerous picking the ball up and running at people where he can then pick a pass or shoot.

Re’ the press, obviously I can’t say what he’s going to be like at United and I can only tell you what he’s like at wolves, he doesn’t press, that maybe that Vitor knows he’s our talisman and as such allows him to get away with it a little bit and do his own thing, I don’t know but for the record I’m a season ticket holder and I normally go away 5/6 times a season so I do actually watch him.

He’s also not really disrespected wolves fans on Insta, he’s posted a couple of things and it’s upset a few, they conveniently forget the numerous times he’s posted how much he loves it at wolves and how playing for us has given him his love for football back, that’s just fans though isn’t it.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
People are right to be concerned about it. This season he's had 2 instances of violent conduct in 3 months, including ripping glasses of some bloke's face. If he did that at United, you'd never hear the last of it.

I like having passionate players at United but you need to channel that aggression in the right way, especially in this era of VAR.
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He will know the spotlight is going to be in him after those instances against Ipswich and Bournemouth
 
Getting business done before the season finishes, that's a first!

We lack physicality and we lack goals. He should bring both. Interested to see how he will link up with Dorgu if he remains our LWB too.
 
V.O. said:
Yeah, this idea basically came from that fecking "% of time walking" meme stat that people like to post every few pages.

If you look at his actual stats for defensive actions, they've been elite every year before this one, where they're still decent. He's pressing less than he used to because he's pretty much Wolves' only outlet as a one man counter attack. At Hertha, Atletico, and even before this season at Wolves, he pressed like a dog. It's tactical.
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Agreed. Wolves' use of Cunha this season reminds me of The Great Escape scene where Corporal Fernandez tells his teammates, "you give me the ball here, then I do this, and this, and this, and we score!" Your one-man outlet probably isn't gonna be playing the part of pressing monster too.
Crashoutcassius said:
I swear the forum has been happy about practically every signing we have made the last ten years. That is fine. But everyone that hailed summer after summer as brilliant business were wrong a lot, lot more than they were right. Maybe having a critical eye towards the clubs decisions is going to end up being the more correct approach
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I've never seen the forum happy, so must've missed this. What was it like? Good? Bad? Boring?
 
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