Happy for him, he will probably still get the sack next week but he proved a lot of people wrong and goes down as Tottenham's most successful manager in their modern history.
Ange Postecoglou | Sacked, mate
- Thread starter MayosNoun
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This guy is pissing me off!
It's so hilarious to me how he's being portrayed as some kind of tactical mastermind after that game and people online are making a huge deal out of his quote about always winning something in his 2nd season.
He's had 2 full seasons at Spurs to build that team in his own image and they're somehow doing even worse than us in the league. They scored a lucky goal last night and then managed to cling onto it by the skin of their teeth. It's not like they pulled out a huge win against one of the top teams in Europe, we're absolutely shit at the moment and Spurs barely managed to play any football against us.
Fair play to them for managing to get the win, but 1 game where they were absolutely useless themselves hardly turns around the terrible season that they've had. The argument to keeps him on sounds very similar to the ETH argument last year, even down to excuses about how many injuries Spurs had to manage over the course of the season. In fact, our FA cup win last year was actually more impressive as it came against the Premier League Champions rather than the team in 16th place.
I have lots of time for Ange as a character, but the re-writing of the last 2 years based on 1 game where they were really poor is mind boggling.
He's had 2 full seasons at Spurs to build that team in his own image and they're somehow doing even worse than us in the league. They scored a lucky goal last night and then managed to cling onto it by the skin of their teeth. It's not like they pulled out a huge win against one of the top teams in Europe, we're absolutely shit at the moment and Spurs barely managed to play any football against us.
Fair play to them for managing to get the win, but 1 game where they were absolutely useless themselves hardly turns around the terrible season that they've had. The argument to keeps him on sounds very similar to the ETH argument last year, even down to excuses about how many injuries Spurs had to manage over the course of the season. In fact, our FA cup win last year was actually more impressive as it came against the Premier League Champions rather than the team in 16th place.
I have lots of time for Ange as a character, but the re-writing of the last 2 years based on 1 game where they were really poor is mind boggling.
Yesterday's game was a pretty good example of extreme narratives around managers based on largely random moments in the game, which is out of their control. Spurs get a lucky break from a scrappy goal, whereas United had a ball cleared off the line and a late header that could easily have been a goal.
Not saying the managers don't have an impact, and there are definitely things to criticize Amorim for, but in the end it was always going to be a tight game given the quality of the two sides. It wasn't a masterclass from Ange, nor was it a disaster from Amorim.
Exactly, both clubs have had horrendously bad seasons, but I'm seeing Spurs and Ange framed as a success story after last nights game.
Amorim actually has a bit of and excuse, in that he was brought in half way through the season and is trying to implement a new formation and tactics. I'm not saying he should be given a complete pass on the awful league position, but I think it's only fair he gets judged after he has a bit more time to build out the team and work with the players. Ange, on the other hand, has his team in an awful state with two full seasons already under his belt.
The one consolation from last night is that Levy might now decide to keep Ange in post. Which will be fun next season. They were shit last night, just a different type of shit from their usual gung-ho 'angeball'.
Yep I think this says a hell of a lot really, as poor a game as it was, we were the far better side:
Exactly. Off the top of my head we had the Højlund header cleared off the line, Shaw header that was saved, a good shot from Garnacho that was saved, Amad's shot just wide and Bruno header wide. We were a bit unlucky to not come away with a goal.Yep I think this says a hell of a lot really, as poor a game as it was, we were the far better side:
They’ll be much better next season with Ange though. Once they have a fully fit squad plus new additions with the extra money they’ve just won. They’ll easily challenge for top 5
More than ever I'm convinced that people who use "pragmatism" have no idea what they are talking about.
All managers want to win and prioritize winning. They may not be right at times in their approach but just because they don't set up in a Brexit 4-4-2 formation does not mean they are not looking to win.
All managers want to win and prioritize winning. They may not be right at times in their approach but just because they don't set up in a Brexit 4-4-2 formation does not mean they are not looking to win.
They still won a trophy.
Oh did they? Thanks for that insight!
Yeah, all this the criticism is confirmation bias/'Monday-morning quarterbacking', just like people saying 'obviously' Mount shouldn't have played, 'obviously' Bruno shouldn't have played as CM string-puller (in theory).
Ange compromised on his principles, Sure, he had more than competent CBs put in a shift and do the basics.,, he had his more physical and dynamic midfield (but one lacking creativity, bar Sarr's cross) break-up play, spoil then sit deep....but they could still easily have lost. 'Controlling' the game here was sill alloiwng efforts to fly at their goalie or at a defensive block where 1 deflection causes issues. It only takes 1 Bruno thunderbolt and all of it is wiped out. Or If VDV slips or slightly miscalculates and doesn't clear the Hojlund chance, or if the Casemiro effort goes the right-side of the post, then United take it into extra-time, Spurs have a massively defensively set-up and get laid to siege. United then are likely get a 2nd, and Post gets criticized for negative game management.
Don't think Amorim escape blame (he was too slow with the subs- Mount wasn't really creating anything; Hojlund did nothing, bar his one real effort, and Zirkzee started causing issues), but Spurs without their playmakers are an even more limited side and AP rode his luck.
Maybe the injuries they had impacted the tactics and line up by Ange? Spurs three best creative players Maddison, Kulusevski and Bergvall all out injured, leaves them pretty thin in the creative department, sure Solanke and Richarlison will press hard and work for the team. But neither them or the midfield of Bentancur, Bissouma, Sarr can create much, Porro probably their most creative player on the pitch.
One of those goes in I think Spurs get the wobbles. But they didn't go in unforunately.
Be interesting to see if he's still there next season. Still think he's not right for them overall despite the win
The hell does this mean?
He lost all his playmakers due to injury. His side went up a goal ahead and were 45 minutes from a trophy (not win, trophy). Has he stated he would never play in a different way? This isn't a gotcha, managers make out of game and in game adjustments all the time.
This sounds like sour grapes. Winner takes it all. If you lose, you’re a bottler. If you win, you pulled off a masterclass. That’s just how football is.
Ange has made his swashbuckling play a matter of principle in interviews though, to the point where he'll insist that he's not changing, that he will only play his way, its his philosophy etc. Used it to shield himself against criticism. In terms of winning the game he played it the right way, but he's nevertheless a massive hypocrite, compared to managers who just come out and say that they're adapting against different sides to try and get the job done, and are prepared to accept criticism on the grounds of individual adaptations not working. You can't just sell yourself as a purist, then give up on that in your supposedly crowning game and not expect a bit of pushback (alongside the plaudits for winning). Doubly-so when it's against a deeply average United side, but that's a slightly different matter.
Agree fully. I found it incredibly offensive when the other week Sean Dyche on the Overlap podcast suggested all those foreign hipster manager are only about their ideas and not about winning games, and that specifically Kompany sacrificed Burnley's PL survival in favour of insisting on a fancy style that would get him bigger jobs later on. What a load of bullshit, what an absolute prick.
This was always going to happen if Spurs won though. It's just a cool thing to say something like Ange did and then back it up at a club that hadn't won a thing for nearly two decades. Their league position can be thrown out of the window because just like United they've focused solely on the Europa League since around March. I don't think I've anyone seen describe yesterday's performance as a "tactical masterclass", rather a dreadful final with two bad teams.
Firmly disagree with that, he won against a team that solely focused on that very final for the past two months. You won the FA Cup against City after they turned up half drunk from celebrating the league title.
Feels like clutching at straws, this. That's now twice you've mentioned Shaw's header on this page but it was a bang average header more centrally placed than towards the corner, nothing special about that and would've been a Vicario howler had that led to a goal. I can't even remember the other chances you mention but "bit unlucky to not come away with a goal" doesn't align at all with the overwhelming sentiment I've seen on here (and agree with) that you didn't look like scoring even if you'd have had another 45 minutes to play. It's not because you get some balls on goal that you deserve a goal or are unlucky not to score. The Hojlund header is basically the only one I'd qualify for that.
You can dislike him but he was at least savvy enough to move away from his principles for one game to win a trophy. The game stats are heavily in our favour because Tottenham allowed us to have the possession.
You can say he's 'unprincipled', I call it 'adaptable'
Even Fergie parked the bus in 2008 in the CL semi final vs Barcelona after Scholesy's cracker. We won the CL that year.
You can say he's 'unprincipled', I call it 'adaptable'
Even Fergie parked the bus in 2008 in the CL semi final vs Barcelona after Scholesy's cracker. We won the CL that year.
He is the modern Di Matteo. Just rode his luck all year in the EL. Will not do anything of significance in his career…
I have no reason to clutch at straws. It's not a defense of Amorim - at this point I don't really care if he stays or goes. The Shaw header was a big chance, but poorly finished of course. I don't mean that we deserved to win, but if we didn't look like scoring seen over the entire game, then neither did Spurs. It's not like they created any real chances. My original point was that there wasn't much between the two performances, but Ange will be hailed for winning, while Amorim is being heavily criticized for losing.
People making comment about getting lucky and finishing 17th etc and playing poor and defensive in the final…
It’s their first European win since 1984. Without using Google, there are no non-Spurs fans on here who could tell me how Spurs finished in the league that year or how they played in the final of the European trophy they won.
Facts are, league performances and the way they set out to the play in the final now become redundant. They won a trophy and that is all that matters to their fan base, no-one remembers the other stuff.
It’s their first European win since 1984. Without using Google, there are no non-Spurs fans on here who could tell me how Spurs finished in the league that year or how they played in the final of the European trophy they won.
Facts are, league performances and the way they set out to the play in the final now become redundant. They won a trophy and that is all that matters to their fan base, no-one remembers the other stuff.
A hypocrite with a trophy.
You don't remember it later, but you remember it now and when the celebrations end in the summer and you start thinking about next season.
Like ETH last season in the FA cup, for better and worse. And probably with similar results if he's kept on. You can say that he's a bullshitter who got lucky that Bruno didn't pull out a piece of magic (something he's regularly done this season).... but also made a number of decisions on the day that improved his odds and applaud him for the latter in isolation - you can walk and chew gum with these things
He has won stuff on three continents. It's not as if Spurs is his first job.
Yeah I agree with the overriding point, also what you said about managers only being able to do so much. Games, and definitely finals, are often decided in small margins. I definitely don’t think Ange should be heralded for yesterday of their season for what it’s worth. The question is whether they’ll have the balls to sack him since that would place immediate pressure on his successor imo, but likewise Ange would need to show serious improvement in the league from the get go if he doesn’t want to be under scrutiny immediately.
The drama around him is pissing me off. Everywhere you go it's Ange hype, his quotes, dressing room celebrations and what not.
Spurs are in the same situation we were in with ten hag. Showed decent amount of promise but the lows were so so low. Won the EL so stick or twist now? No one wants to sack mid season and write off a year
The smart move would be to sack him but I can't say the available replacements are that appealing unless Inzaghi is willing to leave Inter, which seems unlikely.
Well done to Spurs fans in here for winning last night. Must be fantastic feeling for you after years of waiting on a trophy and terrible league campaign this year. Deserved win and have nothing against Spurs so happy for guys as much as I'm gutted as United fan. My question is (not sure how many Tottenham fans we have in here): are there fans some that would still sack Ange as early as end of this season? Think that would be so harsh given that he's delivered most important trophy in decades but there were some that wanted him gone even if he wins Europa.
I don't think it is possible to sack him and have any credibility.
I'd argue that West Ham set that precedent for stupidity when Moyes didn't survive the Conference League win and they're now 2 managers later, less than a year on, and have spent the whole time since Potter watching Moyes perform a miracle with Everton. It wouldn't really knock me over if we did bin Ange and then saw him win the bloody league with someone drab.
Irony in the cup win is that the last one we won (2008) with Ramos was also a complete shitshow in the league. We can't have both
I don't even think we can compare too much to Ramos in that we kept him on, because you lot stole Berba and Liverpool knicked Keane, so we had to try and replace those two with Frazier Campbell. Granted, Redknapp did brilliantly in spite of that, but if we keep Ange we need to resolve the issues in the squad and cut out players who just aren't reliable or consistent enough for his style. We rely too much on Son, who is declining rapidly
The thing is, Spurs were terrrible anyway, they also weren't any better than us and won luckily while playing shit football themselves. All Ange managed is to luck into backing up his ridiculously cocky talk how he himself wins trophies (not his team mind you).
If they keep him, they'll have another shit season because the job he has been doing has become progressively worse, after his entertaining and rather spectacular start
If they keep him, they'll have another shit season because the job he has been doing has become progressively worse, after his entertaining and rather spectacular start
Levy about to give us a lesson in how to run a club by sacking a manager who just won a European cup most likely. We would never, and that's partly why we are where we are.
Is he going to do it though? They're in the same dilemma as we were in end of last season.
Maybe because he believes it gives his side the best chances of success? That can change if the circumstances allow.
Hypocrite would only apply if he said, "I will never ever under any circumstance park the bus".
He has a preferred style of play like any manager does. That preferred style translates to methods of training and in game management and player acquisition. Obviously every manager is up for criticism based on results, not denying that.
On the bolded, every manager does that, including the manager we are speaking about. That's what the training sessions are. Just because they don't switch between parking the bus and gung ho madness does not mean adapting isn't being done.
You are the one reading him as a purist. If he was a purist he wouldn't have played United the way he did, nor would he have played more (no, pragmatic as a word does not work here) cautiously enroute to the final.
And he didn't even park the bus well! Managers are good at what they are good at. They specialize at a certain style of play but can make tweaks within that framework to match opposition characteristics. Mourinho can't coach a side to play tiki taka. Hansi can't teach a side to park the bus.
I say all that jargon to say as a community let's stop using the word pragmatic
If we use these stats we have to be honest with ourselves though. For sure, you can say we edged it but it was extremely even and scrappy + they had three of their best players out and Son half fit. First half was this:Yep I think this says a hell of a lot really, as poor a game as it was, we were the far better side:
2nd half they basically did what Forest do and let us have crosses, shots and backed themselves to deal with it.
A winner clown is still a clown right? His 180 turn to win a trophy at last shows he may well a berserker at heart, yet a mature and well aware one. Arise, Sir Ange!
His 180 turn to win a trophy at last shows he may well a berserker at heart, yet a mature and well aware one. Arise, Sir Ange!Thanks a lot mate.
It’s difficult to say really. I’ll be honest and say the football and results this season have been beyond comprehension. Over 20 league losses in a season is crazy for a club of our resources. Yes there have been ridiculous injuries but the general trend of Ange in the league has not been good.
Im not so sure that’s going to change dramatically.
Still, to fire the manager who’s won our 1st trophy in 17 years and our biggest for 40 years….thats a tough sell. The players seem to love him too and I worry about the effect on morale if we did fire him.
Personally I probably wouldn’t sack him now. But I’m not a particularly ruthless person.
Also some journalists have been genuinely embarrassing I think. Being called a clown by a journalist who’s never achieved in the game when you’ve won trophies at every job you’ve been at must be incredibly grating.