ESPN: Amorim prioritising, Pace, Power and Atheticism this summer

Should go for Andrey Santos as a CM. Chelsea would be OK to sell saying last reports.
He is very physical, and provides good offensive contribution.
But it will be an expensive one, between 40 and 50M£. I don't know if United can afford that this summer
 
Should go for Andrey Santos as a CM. Chelsea would be OK to sell saying last reports.
He is very physical, and provides good offensive contribution.
But it will be an expensive one, between 40 and 50M£. I don't know if United can afford that this summer
Straight swap with Garnacho? (Garnacho + 20m for Santos)
 
Yes we dont have tier 1 speed, but we only had it through Younger Giggs, Ronaldo then Valencia and then when Rashford came through

Now we dont have Rashford we dont have tier 1 or 2 speed

I'm not sure who the solution would be in our formation as we dont play wingers and they are usually the ones with that speed. Probably a wingback but finding a wingback with that speed who would want to come to us I'm not sure theres a solution.
Sure we did.

Kanschelskis definitely a tier 1

Cole was very fast!

Evra was definitely a tier 1 - he was absolutely rapid.

James was blistering - only player I've seen who was able to outpace, or at least compete with a prime Walker. tier 1

Rio was definitely tier 1 - not just as a CB, but full stop

Smalling was probably tier 1 as well - he was rapid

Elanga? :)

I thought Shaw was supposed to be tier 1, was rumored to be faster than both Bale and Walcott at Southampton, but Walcott must have been pure BS.

But yeah, there have been few since. More tier 2 players such as Rooney, Rafael, Nani (maybe tier 1?), Martial, Dalot, Højlund, Antony - yes he is quite fast, Wan Bisska,

Problem now is that we are slow as feck, and weak, and small.

Plenty of decent wingbacks that would join us - United are still a big and attractive club.
 
Do love these epic sounding briefs the club give to journos.

Like the "best in class" management gang. That turned out not quite to be that.

Or best of all, the time we briefed that Fergie's replacement would need "European experience and trophies".

Then went for Moyes.
Which was then briefed as being the "chosen one", quickly watered down to "apart from the 5 or 6 choices before him".
 
I normally lack the patience for long posts but I read every word of this, so hats off to you for the worthwhile read!

The only position I would debate as being a priority is the LCB slot. Of course I would love to replace Licha with someone more reliable and imposing, but in your description of what we need you’ve essentially described Ayden Heaven. I’d personally wait another year given we’re not in Europe next season, see if Licha stays fit with the lighter workload and see how Heaven develops, as we still have Shaw, Yoro and potentially Kukonki in any emergency to cover at LCB.

I would personally push that money into another LWB this summer. Someone like Ait-Nouri, Robinson or Theo Hernandez (if he’s at all available) allowing us to ease the pressure on Dorgu who can cover as WB on both sides. I think Dorgu will develop into a really solid player given time and when he becomes more confident, but adding in a bombing LWB with quality in the final third would have a bigger impact than a new LCB.

Great post. Always the voice of reason.

I do think Heaven has shown great potential to be part of the 3 piece puzzle.

I wrote in another thread how a back 3 of de Ligt, Yoro and Heaven (before Heaven's injury) would help mitigate Spurs's physical advantage over us.

Alas, it was our lack of goal threat, rather than physicality that was the issue.
Thank you chaps for your responses and generous praise. I agree with everything you said. Heaven certainly has the tools, I just worry about putting too much responsibility on a player so young, something we’ve done too much of over the last couple of years. But I agree he has the tools, at least potentially. It’s an interesting point about the lack of European football next season and the potential to let Heaven step up. I need to digest that thought properly because I respond.
The fact I read all this rather than scrolling is testament to how good your posts can be.

Barella is my favourite active CM right now, I think he’s superb and would love him at United. He’s the beating heart of Inter.
Thank you mate. And yes on Barella. He’s been my ideal midfielder for United for a good few years. It’s amazing how underappreciated he is, because he’s world class without a doubt. I actually had an argument with a poster not too long ago, who was adamant that Barella couldn’t be considered a “technically proficient” midfielder. Mind boggling.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Great read.
Thank you.
Well thought out post. Enjoyed reading

I dont think three at the back suits us currently. It comes across as overly defensive. That's more to do with the fact we don't have wingers in the wingbacks positions who push forward and stay high up the pitch. Nor do we use the overlapping CBs idea that Inter Milan use.

You'd think a modern day Matteus Summer who could break through lines from a back three would come back into vogue. That or move DMs into slot into the centre of a back three. Then come out and move into midfield you have an overload or they can go into the DM position allowing both your CMs to go forwards.

In a nutshell, there's so much variation of the back 3 that could be attempted, but ours looks so one dimensional and passive. We just have 3 CBs standing there when we are attacking.

I'm surprised we didn't try (as far as I know) for frimpong. Thought he'd be ideal for RWB position. Fullbacks in the wingbacks positions doesn't work with the way he wants to play.

Anyway be very interesting to see who he brings in and lets go this summer.
Mathias Sammer is on of my favourite players of all time. He married an incredible no fuss, efficient, physically dominant style, to technical mastery, grace, and a deep understanding of the game around him. He used to drive forwards from the libero position and play as an auxiliary CM, and although he was powerful, he still somewhat glided over the ground. As a young man I was absolutely enamoured with the way he played and the positions he took up. Putting him in the team was almost like getting two players, a brilliant defender and a graceful midfielder. Honestly, in this era he would’ve been absolute gold dust when you consider the premium on playing out from the back.

With regards to the 3 at the back, it’s nature is neither defensive nor offensive. Not inherently. It’s all about personnel. I’ve argued this for a long time. If you play the system with two traditional wingbacks, it’s defensive. If you play the system with one wingback and one winger, it’s well balanced. If you play it with two wingers, it’s extremely attacking. Amorim has been limited by his main three options being Mazroui, Dorgu and Dalot. 2 are natural defenders, and the other is a wingback. It’s only when Amad plays there that you start to see its potential.

In terms of evolving our performances, recruitment at wingback is going to be vital. Of all the positions, getting a winger to play RWB is probably the one position that will change the shape and threat of the team more than any other.

If you gave me unlimited money and a CM style edit feature so players would all want to come to me, I wouldn’t play a natural defenders on either wing back slot, because that belies what this system is actually designed to be. I’d have a hard working wide midfielder on one side and a straight up winger on the other. These aren’t supposed to a case of “it is what is says on the tin”. The wing back label is a default moniker, a hypothesis underlined by the personnel Amorim used there in his time at Sporting. He had Quenda on the right who is a left footed, out and out winger. People picking defenders for this role are changing the entire system, and it’s a big reason why we’ve struggled going forwards this season, we just can’t create the needed overloads. We are losing at least one proper attacking player in the final third.

My dream would be Nico Williams as the “LWB”, and Federico Valverde as thee “RWB”. You’ve got the pacey inverted winger on one side and the industrious technically gifted midfielder on the other, who can easily make a significant defensive contribution (he’s played full back for Real many times). He’s also really dangerous going forwards and is very quick. Obviously we’ll never get either, but they are the dream. The only “defender” I’ve seen that would work in this system as one of the WBs is Alphonso Davies. And that’s because he’s a sort of hybrid full back/winger. I suppose Frimpong potentially could work too, but I genuinely think we need to sign a winger, rather than all the talk of looking for a wingback. We have our hybrid, industrious wide midfielder in Dorgu, already. He’s young and will need time to come good. On the other flank we need an outright winger or at worst a player of the profile of Valverde. If we sign a player who is even slightly more defensively inclined, we are not solving the problem.
 
Last edited:
Are there any targets who have all these attributes plus the technique as well?
 
Sure we did.

Kanschelskis definitely a tier 1

Cole was very fast!

Evra was definitely a tier 1 - he was absolutely rapid.

James was blistering - only player I've seen who was able to outpace, or at least compete with a prime Walker. tier 1

Rio was definitely tier 1 - not just as a CB, but full stop

Smalling was probably tier 1 as well - he was rapid

Elanga? :)

I thought Shaw was supposed to be tier 1, was rumored to be faster than both Bale and Walcott at Southampton, but Walcott must have been pure BS.

But yeah, there have been few since. More tier 2 players such as Rooney, Rafael, Nani (maybe tier 1?), Martial, Dalot, Højlund, Antony - yes he is quite fast, Wan Bisska,

Problem now is that we are slow as feck, and weak, and small.

Plenty of decent wingbacks that would join us - United are still a big and attractive club.

You're certainly right I missed some as I included Giggs. Kanchelskis was up there

But tier 1 is like first version of Giggs, young Rashford and Mbappe. I dont think people like Evra were close to that. They're fast but they arent in that tier and certainly not the likes of Smalling and Rio. I dont think Elanga was for us, he might be now and I cant explain why that might have happened. James was never as fast as Rashford, I know he had that 1 game against City before signing where he looked rapid but for us he didnt look faster than the likes of Nani.

Shaw was fast for someone a bit bigger but not as fast as Evra, let alone the fastest players.

I think most of the time when they are truly in that tier 1 category they are used as attacking wingers, rather than fullbacks. And of course theres a chance that someone playing as a winger right now might be able to be converted to wingback for us. Its happened before for other teams. But theres an even bigger chance that a fast winger wont be someone who wants to play for us at wingback. So I'd love us to find someone for the role but I think we've done well to get Amad to play the role and I'm not sure we'll see that enthusiasm from wingers who can sign for a club doing better and play as a winger instead of for us and play as a wingback.
 
Sure we did.

Kanschelskis definitely a tier 1

Cole was very fast!

Evra was definitely a tier 1 - he was absolutely rapid.

James was blistering - only player I've seen who was able to outpace, or at least compete with a prime Walker. tier 1

Rio was definitely tier 1 - not just as a CB, but full stop

Smalling was probably tier 1 as well - he was rapid

Elanga? :)

I thought Shaw was supposed to be tier 1, was rumored to be faster than both Bale and Walcott at Southampton, but Walcott must have been pure BS.

But yeah, there have been few since. More tier 2 players such as Rooney, Rafael, Nani (maybe tier 1?), Martial, Dalot, Højlund, Antony - yes he is quite fast, Wan Bisska,

Problem now is that we are slow as feck, and weak, and small.

Plenty of decent wingbacks that would join us - United are still a big and attractive club.
Sharpe, Stam, Keane when he was younger, Ince, Saha

There’s always been pace through our teams
 
Pay Osimhen the money!
If United seek a striker to replace Hojlund, you should go for Emmanuel Emegha.
He's tall, powerfull, and very fast for his height. Really decent finishing too. EPL would be a perfect fit for him.
He's still young (22) and should be available around 30M£, which isn't that high considering the market and his quality
 
If United seek a striker to replace Hojlund, you should go for Emmanuel Emegha.
He's tall, powerfull, and very fast for his height. Really decent finishing too. EPL would be a perfect fit for him.
He's still young (22) and should be available around 30M£, which isn't that high considering the market and his quality
Think he looks decent by in this position I don’t want another project and if we are getting rid of Sancho and Rashford and possibly Bruno then if I am going to pay anyone at the club a good wage it would be one of the best CFs in the game currently who fits the profile
 
I don’t think we need pace and power in every position.

If we can solve for pace and power in CB, CM and #9, that would be good enough. If we look at Amad, he is not particularly strong but he is one of the more difficult players to dispossess and is also good at wining possession.
 
I don’t think we need pace and power in every position.

If we can solve for pace and power in CB, CM and #9, that would be good enough. If we look at Amad, he is not particularly strong but he is one of the more difficult players to dispossess and is also good at wining possession.
Amad is strong and fast. He fits the bill very well.
 
I don’t think we need pace and power in every position.

If we can solve for pace and power in CB, CM and #9, that would be good enough. If we look at Amad, he is not particularly strong but he is one of the more difficult players to dispossess and is also good at wining possession.
Along with technical ability the more positions you have it in the better
 
You're certainly right I missed some as I included Giggs. Kanchelskis was up there

But tier 1 is like first version of Giggs, young Rashford and Mbappe. I dont think people like Evra were close to that. They're fast but they arent in that tier and certainly not the likes of Smalling and Rio. I dont think Elanga was for us, he might be now and I cant explain why that might have happened. James was never as fast as Rashford, I know he had that 1 game against City before signing where he looked rapid but for us he didnt look faster than the likes of Nani.

Shaw was fast for someone a bit bigger but not as fast as Evra, let alone the fastest players.

I think most of the time when they are truly in that tier 1 category they are used as attacking wingers, rather than fullbacks. And of course theres a chance that someone playing as a winger right now might be able to be converted to wingback for us. Its happened before for other teams. But theres an even bigger chance that a fast winger wont be someone who wants to play for us at wingback. So I'd love us to find someone for the role but I think we've done well to get Amad to play the role and I'm not sure we'll see that enthusiasm from wingers who can sign for a club doing better and play as a winger instead of for us and play as a wingback.
https://www.manutd.com/en/amp/news/detail/marcus-rashford-says-daniel-james-is-faster-than-him

James was blistering!

Ferguson went on about Rio being one of the fastest players he ever had. Rio was rapid. Only defender I ever saw to outpace a prime Etoo, Torres etc.

Ferguson never mentioned Ronaldo…

Evra was also amazingly fast, especially over shorter distances. Before the, wrongly given, red card against Bayern, he had Robben in his pocket. He always did well against players like Walcott - only Lennon seemed to out-accelerate him.

Then we have players like Hernandez, Lukaku etc.

We’ve always been a fast team - now we are probably the slowest.
 
All I know is that I have not seen any improvement in the team, whether individually or as a collective. He's had long enough
 
If United seek a striker to replace Hojlund, you should go for Emmanuel Emegha.
He's tall, powerfull, and very fast for his height. Really decent finishing too. EPL would be a perfect fit for him.
He's still young (22) and should be available around 30M£, which isn't that high considering the market and his quality
Has the same first touch as Lukaku, but not the shooting quality. He’s certainly rapid though.
 
All I know is that I have not seen any improvement in the team, whether individually or as a collective. He's had long enough
Yeah 6 months, no pre-season to get the players to the required fitness level, time to work on the tactical side and drill the players in depth on how he wants them to play. Also just a January window as well. £600mil of bad spending that is still being paid for on credit facility.

Definitely long enough, get him out.
 
I look forward to the hot potato football continuing next season then.
 
Thank you chaps for your responses and generous praise. I agree with everything you said. Heaven certainly has the tools, I just worry about putting too much responsibility on a player so young, something we’ve done too much of over the last couple of years. But I agree he has the tools, at least potentially. It’s an interesting point about the lack of European football next season and the potential to let Heaven step up. I need to digest that thought properly because I respond.

Thank you mate. And yes on Barella. He’s been my ideal midfielder for United for a good few years. It’s amazing how underappreciated he is, because he’s world class without a doubt. I actually had an argument with a poster not too long ago, who was adamant that Barella couldn’t be considered a “technically proficient” midfielder. Mind boggling.

Thank you.

Mathias Sammer is on of my favourite players of all time. He married an incredible no fuss, efficient, physically dominant style, to technical mastery, grace, and a deep understanding of the game around him. He used to drive forwards from the libero position and play as an auxiliary CM, and although he was powerful, he still somewhat glided over the ground. As a young man I was absolutely enamoured with the way he played and the positions he took up. Putting him in the team was almost like getting two players, a brilliant defender and a graceful midfielder. Honestly, in this era he would’ve been absolute gold dust when you consider the premium on playing out from the back.

With regards to the 3 at the back, it’s nature is neither defensive nor offensive. Not inherently. It’s all about personnel. I’ve argued this for a long time. If you play the system with two traditional wingbacks, it’s defensive. If you play the system with one wingback and one winger, it’s well balanced. If you play it with two wingers, it’s extremely attacking. Amorim has been limited by his main three options being Mazroui, Dorgu and Dalot. 2 are natural defenders, and the other is a wingback. It’s only when Amad plays there that you start to see its potential.

In terms of evolving our performances, recruitment at wingback is going to be vital. Of all the positions, getting a winger to play RWB is probably the one position that will change the shape and threat of the team more than any other.

If you gave me unlimited money and a CM style edit feature so players would all want to come to me, I wouldn’t play a natural defenders on either wing back slot, because that belies what this system is actually designed to be. I’d have a hard working wide midfielder on one side and a straight up winger on the other. These aren’t supposed to a case of “it is what is says on the tin”. The wing back label is a default moniker, a hypothesis underlined by the personnel Amorim used there in his time at Sporting. He had Quenda on the right who is a left footed, out and out winger. People picking defenders for this role are changing the entire system, and it’s a big reason why we’ve struggled going forwards this season, we just can’t create the needed overloads. We are losing at least one proper attacking player in the final third.

My dream would be Nico Williams as the “LWB”, and Federico Valverde as thee “RWB”. You’ve got the pacey inverted winger on one side and the industrious technically gifted midfielder on the other, who can easily make a significant defensive contribution (he’s played full back for Real many times). He’s also really dangerous going forwards and is very quick. Obviously we’ll never get either, but they are the dream. The only “defender” I’ve seen that would work in this system as one of the WBs is Alphonso Davies. And that’s because he’s a sort of hybrid full back/winger. I suppose Frimpong potentially could work too, but I genuinely think we need to sign a winger, rather than all the talk of looking for a wingback. We have our hybrid, industrious wide midfielder in Dorgu, already. He’s young and will need time to come good. On the other flank we need an outright winger or at worst a player of the profile of Valverde. If we sign a player who is even slightly more defensively inclined, we are not solving the problem.
Interesting stuff, thanks for the insight.

How about Dan Ndoye at Bologna as one of those wing backs? Plays either side, strong runner, likes to take his man on, decent finisher and has a good eye for a cross / pass?
 
Are there any targets who have all these attributes plus the technique as well?

Probably not ones that we can afford. While we're were expecting to win the final, we have reportedly also planned for a summer where we missed out on European football altogether (presumably we essentially had A and B lists of prospective transfers, with the B list covering the same positions for £80m or so less - I would guess that plan B also involves being a bit more aggressive with the clearout, as we could have as few as 40 games to play next season and therefore need to trim the squad significantly).

Given the financial constraints, it might be a case of picking which attributes we want to prioritise (sounds as though we are prioritising physicality).
 
If United seek a striker to replace Hojlund, you should go for Emmanuel Emegha.
He's tall, powerfull, and very fast for his height. Really decent finishing too. EPL would be a perfect fit for him.
He's still young (22) and should be available around 30M£, which isn't that high considering the market and his quality

He is at a Chelsea related feeder club. I doubt they sell to Manchester United for a fee that isnt that high.
 
Are there any targets who have all these attributes plus the technique as well?

Ederson from Atalanta is one. Cunha is another

Mbuemo and Semenyo also fit the bill. Im sure there are others that will come to light
 
Its been interesting watching power and physicality make a return to football in the last few seasons among the Prem and in Europe. Its that old Jose philosophy once again, if two teams have equal skill & technique, the more physical one will win.

(Of course that didn't help Jose with us, because we were lacking in skill and technique...)

There's a reason we found it easier in the Europa this season, we could physically dominate teams. Then, back in the league, we couldn't physically dominate anyone. I agree entirely with the approach here, we need to have more in the way of power and pace in the team to have any chance of succeeding in this league. Of course its easier said than done to find such players, but the strategy is right.
 
Thank you chaps for your responses and generous praise. I agree with everything you said. Heaven certainly has the tools, I just worry about putting too much responsibility on a player so young, something we’ve done too much of over the last couple of years. But I agree he has the tools, at least potentially. It’s an interesting point about the lack of European football next season and the potential to let Heaven step up. I need to digest that thought properly because I respond.

Thank you mate. And yes on Barella. He’s been my ideal midfielder for United for a good few years. It’s amazing how underappreciated he is, because he’s world class without a doubt. I actually had an argument with a poster not too long ago, who was adamant that Barella couldn’t be considered a “technically proficient” midfielder. Mind boggling.

Thank you.

Mathias Sammer is on of my favourite players of all time. He married an incredible no fuss, efficient, physically dominant style, to technical mastery, grace, and a deep understanding of the game around him. He used to drive forwards from the libero position and play as an auxiliary CM, and although he was powerful, he still somewhat glided over the ground. As a young man I was absolutely enamoured with the way he played and the positions he took up. Putting him in the team was almost like getting two players, a brilliant defender and a graceful midfielder. Honestly, in this era he would’ve been absolute gold dust when you consider the premium on playing out from the back.

With regards to the 3 at the back, it’s nature is neither defensive nor offensive. Not inherently. It’s all about personnel. I’ve argued this for a long time. If you play the system with two traditional wingbacks, it’s defensive. If you play the system with one wingback and one winger, it’s well balanced. If you play it with two wingers, it’s extremely attacking. Amorim has been limited by his main three options being Mazroui, Dorgu and Dalot. 2 are natural defenders, and the other is a wingback. It’s only when Amad plays there that you start to see its potential.

In terms of evolving our performances, recruitment at wingback is going to be vital. Of all the positions, getting a winger to play RWB is probably the one position that will change the shape and threat of the team more than any other.

If you gave me unlimited money and a CM style edit feature so players would all want to come to me, I wouldn’t play a natural defenders on either wing back slot, because that belies what this system is actually designed to be. I’d have a hard working wide midfielder on one side and a straight up winger on the other. These aren’t supposed to a case of “it is what is says on the tin”. The wing back label is a default moniker, a hypothesis underlined by the personnel Amorim used there in his time at Sporting. He had Quenda on the right who is a left footed, out and out winger. People picking defenders for this role are changing the entire system, and it’s a big reason why we’ve struggled going forwards this season, we just can’t create the needed overloads. We are losing at least one proper attacking player in the final third.

My dream would be Nico Williams as the “LWB”, and Federico Valverde as thee “RWB”. You’ve got the pacey inverted winger on one side and the industrious technically gifted midfielder on the other, who can easily make a significant defensive contribution (he’s played full back for Real many times). He’s also really dangerous going forwards and is very quick. Obviously we’ll never get either, but they are the dream. The only “defender” I’ve seen that would work in this system as one of the WBs is Alphonso Davies. And that’s because he’s a sort of hybrid full back/winger. I suppose Frimpong potentially could work too, but I genuinely think we need to sign a winger, rather than all the talk of looking for a wingback. We have our hybrid, industrious wide midfielder in Dorgu, already. He’s young and will need time to come good. On the other flank we need an outright winger or at worst a player of the profile of Valverde. If we sign a player who is even slightly more defensively inclined, we are not solving the problem.
Yeah Barella would be a top signing, however what would Inter ask for him, also would he open to team not in Champions League
 
Its been interesting watching power and physicality make a return to football in the last few seasons among the Prem and in Europe. Its that old Jose philosophy once again, if two teams have equal skill & technique, the more physical one will win.

(Of course that didn't help Jose with us, because we were lacking in skill and technique...)

There's a reason we found it easier in the Europa this season, we could physically dominate teams. Then, back in the league, we couldn't physically dominate anyone. I agree entirely with the approach here, we need to have more in the way of power and pace in the team to have any chance of succeeding in this league. Of course its easier said than done to find such players, but the strategy is right.

We didn't physically dominate teams in Europe, they just play a slower, more open game there. Our players we're outfighting or outmuscling them, they were just fitter and the longer the games went on, the more that showed. Well, in most games.

The top teams now are all physical but they couple that with a high technical level as well. Its not either/or like it used to be in the past.
 
We didn't physically dominate teams in Europe, they just play a slower, more open game there. Our players we're outfighting or outmuscling them, they were just fitter and the longer the games went on, the more that showed. Well, in most games.

The top teams now are all physical but they couple that with a high technical level as well. Its not either/or like it used to be in the past.

Being fitter and being able to play at a quicker pace are down to physical traits.
 
Amorim wants pace, physicality, and athleticism in the team then proceeds next season again to play Bruno (one the weakest players in the league, which is easily shrugged off by any midsized opponent) as part of the midfield two.
 
Amorim wants pace, physicality, and athleticism in the team then proceeds next season again to play Bruno (one the weakest players in the league, which is easily shrugged off by any midsized opponent) as part of the midfield two.

It's all about balance. Arsenal can run a 34 yo Jorginho in the middle without too much trouble. And Bruno has an incredible engine.