Are PSG a failed project? | No.

Figure 5: Total transfer fees committed by clubs, with add-ons (2015-2024)
€ billion

Chelsea FC (ENG)
€ 2.78 bn


Manchester City (ENG)
€ 1.96 bn


Manchester United (ENG)
€ 1.95 bn


Paris St-Germain (FRA)
€ 1.90 bn


Juventus FC (ITA)
€ 1.77 bn


FC Barcelona (ESP)
€ 1.67 bn


Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)
€ 1.41 bn


Arsenal FC (ENG)
€ 1.40 bn
 
When transfer income is taken into consideration:
Figure 6: most negative net transfer spending (2015-2024) player sales minus signings =
€ million

Manchester United (ENG)

€ -1304 M

Chelsea FC (ENG)

€ -1209 M

Paris St-Germain (FRA)

€ -991 M

Arsenal FC (ENG)

€ -795 M

Tottenham Hotspur (ENG)
 
Well that's one in the bag at last. Level with Cetic and only one behind Nottingham Forest now.
 
The thing people fail to grasp is that football would get disgustingly stale if only traditional clubs with "earned" money were capable of competing. That would completely kill it.

With their incomes, clubs like Real, Bayern, Barcelona, United etc would absolutely dominate forever without having any capable rivals on continental level.

If anybody is concerned about wellbeing of football, than spending caps should be involved, but not based on income. Because that would cement things as they are at the moment those changes are introduced.

Has there been any story recently of a smaller club building up to become a powerhouse, through good, clever work exclusively? Absolutely not.

Leicester won Premier League in 2016, but they are back to being Leicester of older times.

Sevilla were European powerhouse for almost 20 years, in second grade European competition yes, but they never challenged Barcelona and Real Madrid. A few wrong moves and they sunk to mediocrity.

Atalanta have had some nice success, maybe they are the best example of a side growing from their usual level to the next one, but they too have been absolutely limited by their financial constraints, and one wrong appointment this summer after Gasperini leaves, and they are back to square one.

It was never in history of football more difficult than now to reach the top, and clubs like PSG are more of a symptom than cause of problems.

To me, this is all just is sour grapes, because big, traditional clubs, who ravaged Ajax and mid-leagues close to top in 90s, after the introduction of Bosman, did not cry back then about how football is getting eaten alive. And it was getting eaten alive for a big chunk of European clubs and leagues, making sure they will never be competitive again.

So solution is not to "kill" even more competition by cutting out PSG, City and similar clubs, solution is to cut all the heavy spenders out at the same time. So naturally, when bigger number of clubs can spend the same, or when their spending is at least approximately closer to each other than it is now, then the competition grows.

Otherwise, every league will eventually turn into two horse race at maximum. That is a natural progression, with or without state-funded clubs.
 
The thing people fail to grasp is that football would get disgustingly stale if only traditional clubs with "earned" money were capable of competing. That would completely kill it.

With their incomes, clubs like Real, Bayern, Barcelona, United etc would absolutely dominate forever without having any capable rivals on continental level.

If anybody is concerned about wellbeing of football, than spending caps should be involved, but not based on income. Because that would cement things as they are at the moment those changes are introduced.

Has there been any story recently of a smaller club building up to become a powerhouse, through good, clever work exclusively? Absolutely not.

Leicester won Premier League in 2016, but they are back to being Leicester of older times.

Sevilla were European powerhouse for almost 20 years, in second grade European competition yes, but they never challenged Barcelona and Real Madrid. A few wrong moves and they sunk to mediocrity.

Atalanta have had some nice success, maybe they are the best example of a side growing from their usual level to the next one, but they too have been absolutely limited by their financial constraints, and one wrong appointment this summer after Gasperini leaves, and they are back to square one.

It was never in history of football more difficult than now to reach the top, and clubs like PSG are more of a symptom than cause of problems.

To me, this is all just is sour grapes, because big, traditional clubs, who ravaged Ajax and mid-leagues close to top in 90s, after the introduction of Bosman, did not cry back then about how football is getting eaten alive. And it was getting eaten alive for a big chunk of European clubs and leagues, making sure they will never be competitive again.

So solution is not to "kill" even more competition by cutting out PSG, City and similar clubs, solution is to cut all the heavy spenders out at the same time. So naturally, when bigger number of clubs can spend the same, or when their spending is at least approximately closer to each other than it is now, then the competition grows.

Otherwise, every league will eventually turn into two horse race at maximum. That is a natural progression, with or without state-funded clubs.
I guess Spurs are probably the best example of a smaller club building itself up. I would mention Brighton but their owner dropped a huge pile of money on them so not sure they count for the same reason people would discount PSG.
I feel like PSG and City are a further deterioration and their resources badly skew an already damaged system. So I wouldn't say theres no reason to have issues with them. I think any further changes than the current cat and mouse nonsense would have to go far beyond City and PSG though - a spending cap like you say.
I'm not actually that familiar with PSG though and maybe they play by the same rules as everyone else and their sponsorships aren't wildly inflated. A lot of the objections i'd have to City might not apply to PSG.
 
Yes they’ve spent a lot of money and are owned by a state, but purely from an operational standpoint they’ve absolutely nailed it as owners.

They appointed proper football people to run the club. Yes they’ve spent money, but unlike us, they bought for the team and overall vision and didn’t just buy names and expect a manager to figure out what to do with them or give a manager total rule over who comes in.

Despite being in Ligue 1 which has far less distribution then Premier League, La Liga, Serie A or the Bundesliga they built PSG into a huge brand. Their partnership with Jordan was genius and brought awareness and a cool factor with the youth. I see more PSG shirts here in Canada than I do City shirts. We even have a PSG store in Toronto. Even with them not having household names anymore in the squad, PSG is now the name on the marquee not any individual player like Messi or Mbappe.
 
This is a sickening capitalist perversion of the old state owned socialist model of football. Tears streaming down my face right now.
 
It's amazing to see them operate. Their player are so comfortable on the ball. Touch, control, passing, ability in tight spaces, speed of passing - all are at an amazing level. Their football is from another planet compared to ours.
 
They were, until they killed the galactico 2 project and the owners started to pull the plug. Since they focused spending on younger players who aren't big names, they've built a very good squad.

They're actually a team now. If they'd kept mbappe, doubt they'd do it this year. Ultimately, they can easily afford to waste 200m on Neymar, hundreds of millions to Messi in wages and Mbappe coming for 180m and leaving for 0. They can just spend what it takes, if they need to.

I don't believe large portions of their revenue are real though... Ligue 1 barely has a TV deal. A lot of it'll likely be circular.
 
Their current squad cost around 750m euros. The same as Spurs. And Arsenal. Loads less than Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs.
 
They were, until they killed the galactico 2 project and the owners started to pull the plug. Since they focused spending on younger players who aren't big names, they've built a very good squad.

They're actually a team now. If they'd kept mbappe, doubt they'd do it this year. Ultimately, they can easily afford to waste 200m on Neymar, hundreds of millions to Messi in wages and Mbappe coming for 180m and leaving for 0. They can just spend what it takes, if they need to.

I don't believe large portions of their revenue are real though... Ligue 1 barely has a TV deal. A lot of it'll likely be circular.
Last paragraph is spot on.
 
There’s a big difference between them and us. When they make a mistake in the market like Muani, Ramos, Ugarte etc they can get away with it. They have the pick of the young talent in Paris and France overall, we do not have that luxury.
When they make a mistake in the market, they address it and move them on. We keep saying they need more time, there's a player in there, they'll come good
 
They've built a great side and play really attractive football. I absolutely detested that Mbappe/Neymar version of them. It was big names thrown in, with a random supporting cast.
 
They were, until they killed the galactico 2 project and the owners started to pull the plug. Since they focused spending on younger players who aren't big names, they've built a very good squad.

They're actually a team now. If they'd kept mbappe, doubt they'd do it this year. Ultimately, they can easily afford to waste 200m on Neymar, hundreds of millions to Messi in wages and Mbappe coming for 180m and leaving for 0. They can just spend what it takes, if they need to.

I don't believe large portions of their revenue are real though... Ligue 1 barely has a TV deal. A lot of it'll likely be circular.
Agree all this, but what hurts more is UTD net spend over last 10 years is 400M more than PSG, They might do some backend shady deals to get the players they want but UTD still spent 1400M and land in this situation. It proves total ineptness of owners who left the club with a rotting stadium and 1B debt after banking millions of dividends every year.
 
It's worked out amazingly well for them in the end. If they had won the Champions League after spending combined €400m on Neymar and Mbappe, and after getting Messi they would have received a nod of acknowledgement, but little more.

But the way they have won it with a young team, playing some of the best football we've ever seen, with likeable characters and without the arrogant superstars has been perfect for them. They are now actually liked, respected and highly praised around the world - which I guess was what the whole project was about.
 
Can't wait to beat these in the FIFA World Cup, the only competition that actually matters :cool:
 
Their current squad cost around 750m euros. The same as Spurs. And Arsenal. Loads less than Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs.
They still have the highest wage bill in football afaik
 
Fantastic players every single one of them including the bench. This team beats Pep's Barca! More entertaining and direct football. How Inter got to the final with those players I'll never know.
 
Fantastic players every single one of them including the bench. This team beats Pep's Barca! More entertaining and direct football. How Inter got to the final with those players I'll never know.
Let's not rewrite history now.
 
Fantastic players every single one of them including the bench. This team beats Pep's Barca! More entertaining and direct football. How Inter got to the final with those players I'll never know.

PSG look a lot like Luis Enrique's Barcelona. They were fun to watch and play a more vertical version of possession Football.
 
It's frustrating looking at their side. Players who would've been perfect for us, we realistically could've signed but never seemed to be close to. Likes of, Haikimi, nuno mendes (when he left sporting, not last summer) fabian ruiz, vitinha. I know we were heavily linked with neves but again we get the poor option in ugarte. I will never get over how bad our recruitment has been this decade. It would actually be hard to make a side as poor as ours for the money spent
 
There whole city’s a failed project apparently. Why can fans not just behave themselves and celebrate there team winning a trophy in the correct way. A lot of clashes with the police and explosions and all sorts happening in Paris last night
 
The difference to Man City is that PSG have proper fecking fans whom you can be happy for
Ye they do but they also have fans that are absolute lunatics. Look at the Liverpool parade and then look at how they celebrated there team winning the CL last night in Paris
 
Fantastic players every single one of them including the bench. This team beats Pep's Barca! More entertaining and direct football. How Inter got to the final with those players I'll never know.
Well they were much fitter and played much worse teams, and over 2 legs
PSG look a lot like Luis Enrique's Barcelona. They were fun to watch and play a more vertical version of possession Football.
They don't honestly. Lots of pressing and possession and they want to be very quick in moving the ball to the forwards, but that's it
 
Can't wait to beat these in the FIFA World Cup, the only competition that actually matters :cool:
I was thinking the same thing, I would love a final against them, with a new coach just arriving.
But imagine losing 5-0, Tito losing his mind, and a mercato molto longo :p
 
:devil:I was thinking the same thing, I’d love a final against them. What a boost with a new coach just arriving.
But imagine losing 5-0, Tito losing his mind, and a mercato molto longo :p
I mean, as i said, then it wouldn't matter :lol:

Tito Flo sacking Xabi within a month of his appointment then beg Klopp to take the job
 
What a career turnaround for Luis Campos. Mediocre coach, outstanding DoF.

Many years ago Luis Campos had the achievement of managing two teams in the same year that ended up getting relegated. He had the nickname Luis "Campas" (gravestone).
 
since 2015 Man Utd have spent more than PSG on transfers, both gross & net.
 
Fantastic players every single one of them including the bench. This team beats Pep's Barca! More entertaining and direct football. How Inter got to the final with those players I'll never know.

Let's not get carried away. They were fitter than Inter, not much more in it than that.

They play good football now they've gotten rid of the egos.
 
The thing people fail to grasp is that football would get disgustingly stale if only traditional clubs with "earned" money were capable of competing. That would completely kill it.

I always felt there was great competition during Uniteds peak years. When outside money started pouring in, and there were no real regulations, I think some teams got an easy ride to the top. Back then it was possible, albeit very very hard, to go from mid table to top of the league. Now i'd say that it's impossible without heavy investments from non footballing enterprises. And even with outside money today, the regulations makes it nearly impossible to rise to the top due to FFP. So if you got in at the right time (Chelsea, PSG, City) then you found an "easy" way to the top.

I am very conservative when it comes to football. If you cannot make it by yourself, the you don't deserve to be at the top.

The feeling I get when CIty, PSG or Chelsea win the CL, is the same feeling i'd get, if some punk a** 18 year old showoff driving daddys Lamborghini, beat me in a drag race while i'm in my Golf GTI. Not really that impressive.

Sour grapes, yes.
 
I always felt there was great competition during Uniteds peak years. When outside money started pouring in, and there were no real regulations, I think some teams got an easy ride to the top. Back then it was possible, albeit very very hard, to go from mid table to top of the league. Now i'd say that it's impossible without heavy investments from non footballing enterprises. And even with outside money today, the regulations makes it nearly impossible to rise to the top due to FFP. So if you got in at the right time (Chelsea, PSG, City) then you found an "easy" way to the top.

I am very conservative when it comes to football. If you cannot make it by yourself, the you don't deserve to be at the top.

The feeling I get when CIty, PSG or Chelsea win the CL, is the same feeling i'd get, if some punk a** 18 year old showoff driving daddys Lamborghini, beat me in a drag race while i'm in my Golf GTI. Not really that impressive.

Sour grapes, yes.

During United's peak sugar daddying was fairly normal at the top. People seem to have this completely erroneous idea that it's new or more prevalent when it's the opposite. Keep in mind that heavy marketing and Football clubs being run like viable businesses is very recent, in the 90s commercial deals and prize money were too small to do anything if you weren't one of the few giants. Also your feelings about City, PSG or Chelsea shouldn't be different to your feeling toward Milan, Inter or Juventus.

Back in the day, midtable clubs didn't become top clubs without heavy investments and those heavy investments came similarly then today, a wealthy owner would bankroll his club.
 
Most impressive CL win since well Barca in 2015 imo.

Clean sheets at Anfield and Emirates in knock out ties.
The beatings they gave out to Brest, Stuttgart and obviously the final which was the most complete performance I’ve ever seen in a final.

I’d rank them second to Barca 2009-2011 in terms of level of football/entertainment value.

I think their owner for years wanted them to be Barca 2.0 and they have basically done that.

Only took 14 years and a bazillion euros but got there in the end….