Gill is a sort of Glazer these days the same Gill who urged us to oppose them in 2005
All change of ownership and Red Knights related posts here please
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Gill is a sort of Glazer these days the same Gill who urged us to oppose them in 2005
MEN said:
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Proof, if it were ever needed, that the people running the club give not one shit about long-standing, match-going fans, to the extent that they are now ignoring/denying their very existence.
How so?
So you guys don't think this is positive news?
The Glazers are evil.
The Glazers have just announced they are selling, that would be the positive news we would like to hear. All these commercial partners are bringing no benefit to the fans or club only the Glazers
That article is useless.
Where are the figures? How can we remotely evalute this deal without numbers?
Where are the figures? How can we remotely evalute this deal without numbers?
To show MUTV in Hong Kong? I woudn't think the sums involved are earth shattering
Why do you do this thing of getting people to elaborate on points that you must have understood anyway? Sometimess it almost seems like your agreeing, and encouraging people to state the point explicitly. You are funny one.
Anyway, the point, obviously is that it's not "a lot easier to get a lot more of what you want" if you are somebody who wants to go see United at Old Trafford every week, and has always managed to do so in the past.
But such people aren't in the thoughts of the guy being quoted. Not by a long way.
Why do you do this thing of getting people to elaborate on points that you must have understood anyway? Sometimess it almost seems like your agreeing, and encouraging people to state the point explicitly. You are funny one.
Anyway, the point, obviously is that it's not "a lot easier to get a lot more of what you want" if you are somebody who wants to go see United at Old Trafford every week, and has always managed to do so in the past.
But such people aren't in the thoughts of the guy being quoted. Not by a long way.
You're just taking it out of context though, he's refering specifically to our overseas fans.
Besides, it's a lot easier to get a season ticket now than it was before the current owners took over, so i suppose, if you were insisting on stripping the context away in order to make the comment appear negative, then that could be a reasonable defence
I'm not taking it out of context - the context is everything. And the context is: "long standing match-goers are of no interest to us, it's all about the global fanbase".
Besides, it's a lot easier to get a season ticket now than it was before the current owners took over, so i suppose, if you were insisting on stripping the context away in order to make the comment appear negative, then that could be a reasonable defence
Well no, I'm talking about people who have traditionally always gone to matches, not people who happen to live near by but have never been.
I hope you're not saying that you have to live in Manchester to be a real fan?
The context isn't 'everything' though, is it? Whatever that's supposed to mean. The context of the article, the context of the interview and the context of the quotes taken from it was specifically of overseas fans. What the hell does, 'the context is everything' mean?
A1Dan said:Well no, I'm talking about people who have traditionally always gone to matches, not people who happen to live near by but have never been.
I hope you're not saying that you have to live in Manchester to be a real fan?
Why would he be refering to match-going fans when being interviewed on the specifics of telecoms deals in the far East? You may be talking about match-going fans, but the club spokesman certainly wasn't; is that "Proof, if it were ever needed, that the people running the club give not one shit about long-standing, match-going fans"? No, it's simply proof that that specific article and interview had bollocks-all to do with match-going fans.
By your logic then any comments by the club concerning match-going fans specifically could be considered proof, if it were ever needed, that the people running the club give not one shit about Asian fans, simply because they weren't being referred to in that instance. Of course, such comments by the club have been made regularly, so what does that prove? It proves only that you're talking shit, i'm afraid.
What does it contribute to the bottom line - can we get a new player out of it? Will it subsidise ticket prices? Or is it just more money for the Glazers to pay off their debt with?
Erm, because he mentions them?
I think he's saying that it's nothing personal about screwing over match-goers, they're out to screw the 333m, not just the 76,000
Your problem is that you don't look at the bottom line. You ignore it completely. This is what I have been trying to say all along.
You look at the money going out in interest payments and forget "the bottom line".
This could add £1billion to our bottom line and you would still be saying "Oh but look at that £50million wasted in interest - we could have bought a brilliant player with that."
You just don't get it.
I think you'll find that you're completely wrong and are stereotyping everyone who disagrees with you.
If it adds £1bn (hahahaha yeah, right, go feed your pink elephant) to the bottom line, that's irrelevant if it only benefits the Glazers and that's the big point that you're missing. I've said within the last 36 hours on this thread that I don't give a toss how much money the owner makes so long as it's not to the detriment of the fans and the squad. The ticket prices have rocketed, the ACS has been introduced and we've replaced two world class players with Owen and Valencia.
So what exactly do the words "no matter where you are" mean to you? Doesn't sound like he's specifically talking about overseas fans to me.
If he'd said "The point is, if you are an overseas fan, now it is a lot easier to get a lot more of what you want" then he'd be telling the truth and you'd be right.
But that's not what he said, is it?
In fact, he'd specifically talked about comparisons between local match-goers and overseas TV watches in the previous line - "The people who never miss a game are easily measured. How do you compare that with someone in Hong Kong, who is staying up until 4am to watch Manchester United play." - That's context for you, right there!
The £1billion figure was used merely to show how ridiculous people are who constantly bang on about how much is going OUT of the club - how much is coming IN must always be taken into account.
Not one of us really knows for certain just how lucrative these media deals might become.
If I had said to you 15-20 years ago that by 2010 most people would be buying their music through a "special" phone line and playing it on a device no bigger than a matchbox and that their entire record collection could be stored within that matchbox, you'd probably have been telling me to go and feed my pink elephant then, too.
Because we're still largely talking about future technology, I cannot say for certain how it will be done but I can see a point in the future where fans all over the world will be able to buy something like an "E-Season Ticket" for £x per year and that will give them the ability to watch all United games, all reserve and academy games, exclusive interviews with the players and manager (like MUTV but with live coverage of first-team games).
It will be on a reliable stream (not these dodgy, hit and miss ones people endure at the moment) and the commentary will be available in a choice of languages.
If the estimates that we have between 70-330m fans (or followers) are anywhere near correct then even if only 1% of those buy this E-ST @ (say) £120/year (£10 a month) then that could be anywhere between £84m and £396m per annum.
You might scoff at this now but I don't think this is exactly "pink elephant" stuff. I think this has been very much part of the Glazers' plan all along but it has required technology to catch up with it (we're still not there yet, either).
I'm not sure how all this would only benefit the Glazers - something along these lines sounds brilliant for ALL fans, to me.
You never know, it might even be so brilliant that demand for REAL STs drops and the Glazers might have to lower the real ST price which will benefit the hardcore fans who want to be there watching live - not watching on a TV or computer screen.
The suggestion that none of this money will benefit United is frankly nonsense as far as I am concerned. This has the potential to put us on a completely different planet to most of the other clubs in the world.
The Glazers may well see United as "the brand" or "the product" but if that is the case then the best thing you can do, as a business owner who wants to maximise revenues, is make your product the best it can be.
You don't do that by taking all the money out of it and using it to stuff your mattress. You take what you need and keep the rest in there in order to continue to feed it and grow it. Unless they have something better to spend the money on when they take it out then there would be very little point in doing so.
Does anyone here still believe that the 'Red Knights' will take over the club?
No but I believe something along the lines of my previous post gives a half-decent theory as to why they might have decided that now would be a good time to try to buy it on the cheap.
I think they would need matches to make any significant money out of this.
Is that something they can do overseas or is that tied into Sky too.
The potential would but a huge increase in the clubs value if it is possible.
We've been over this. Why do i have to keep telling you? You're isolating quotes from their context. Put them in context...
Commercial Director said:
...and you see that when he says, "no matter where you are..." it should be interpreted as "no matter where you are [overseas]..." He quite clearly makes the distinction between fans who're able to get to the stadium and those who cannot, and so the entire article is in reference specifically to those who cannot; fans in Asia and America; if you are unable to see that then you're an idiot, and it's no wonder that you hate United so much if by routine you manage to read such negative nonsense as "proof, if it were ever needed, that the people running the club do not give one shit about match-going fans" from irrelevant articles such as this. I wont be going over this with you a fourth time.
Still eminently possible from what I'm hearing. I doubt it will be in the near future though.
Incidentally, there's a debate in Parliament about fan ownership and debt today. I think it's accessable over the net for those interested.
Was that just reported like that in the MEN? That's simply club P.R. (as has been pointed out, no figures at all) without any criticial insight at all. Why didn't the journo ask how Arnold why, with all these deals in place, United's debt is still increasing rather than coming down? Quite simply because this P.R. landed on the MEN's desk and they cut and pasted it to fill a page. Journalism these days...
Oh, and Chris Smalling is blatently not a "household name around the world".
So what time frame do you put on it before you write it off as a possibility?
I have always said that most of the gripes fans have with the Glazers is more about the increased commercialisation of football rather than anything specific at our club. That being the case, lobbying those who can force increased regulation (FA, UEFA, the govt etc) is a much better way to change things than misguided boycotts etc.
Quite simply because this P.R. landed on the MEN's desk and they cut and pasted it to fill a page. Journalism these days...
Funny that I never saw you complaining when they do the same with all the MUST press releases
Funny that I never saw you complaining when they do the same with all the MUST press releases
Er... acually they never did the same. They always asked United for official comment.
Next.
Smirk.
Put a sock in it, Ralphie, you're so full of shit.
I don't think you can ever write off some form of fan ownership. And the pressure for it will be greater so long as the Glazers are in charge due to their immense unpopularity amongst the fans. The "Red Knights" aren't and were never a single group - they were a loose-knit and quite fluid body of wealthy United fans who were not happy with the direction the club were going in and want to give the fans the opportunity to own the club. There are a couple of big names at the top who have been driving it but there's new people coming in (and drifting out) all the time.
But it's clear they're not willing to meet the price that the Glazers have put on the club so until that price comes down (or the club's real value goes up) I don't expect there to be a bid.
There will always be some fans who complain about this, but they are in the minority I reckon. The biggest drive towards commercialisation of football came in the early 1990s - that didn't see tens of thousands of fans wearing green and gold did it?
Are you suggesting that groups like MUST haven't done this? There's no point in talking to the FA because they're powerless. But UEFA have been lobbied through Supporters Direct influencing a number of changes (e.g. Financial Fair Play, and the new requirement for clubs to employ a fan liaison officer) and there is currently a debate going on in Parliament about fan ownership and debt. How do you think that came about?
Simmer down. The big boys are talking.
Are you suggesting that the MEN and other news outlets didn't ask United for comment in response to MUST press releases?
When you come up with an original thought of your own, Ralphie, let us know. As long as you're still just MUST's boring little internet pamphlet grass-boy though you can piss off with your posts about critical journalism.
The most vulnerable time for Glazer has just passed barring some unexpected shake-down. Man Utd is going to get more valuable, less indebted and harder to buy.
Are you suggesting that the MEN and other news outlets didn't ask United for comment in response to MUST press releases?
Nope - I'm suggesting that the MEN and other papers just basically reprint MUST press releases.
Anyway you know what I think about that issue so lets not waste time going over old ground.
Yep.