Atalanta 2:2 Manchester United

Adam-Utd · Oct 31, 2021

Bebestation said:
Hmm okay thanks.

I think City might be okay playing a defensive counter game because them not having a forward or just Gabriel Jesus and us playing 3 at the back might have its benefits- it's more about us trying to break them loose and maybe see if we can fit Pogba in etc (but again maybe it's too soon and early to do this, when we have suddenly changed formation).

Maybe we should rotate a bit vs Atalanta and play a 343 with our younger forwards? Not sure if it's the right time to gamble in the CL but again we do have 3 CB'S with players like Varane who should be able to eat up an Atalanta attack quite well hopefully too.

I think it would be the perfect opportunity.

Ronaldo/Cavani shouldn't be playing 3 games in a week, and with Sancho/Greenwood taking no action this weekend i'd like to see of Sancho/Martial/Greenwood (or rashford in there)

I'd also like to see Matic and DVB trusted in midfield, but I doubt that'll happen either

Pronewbie · Oct 31, 2021

Don’t think we should play Catenaccio against an Italian team that knows all about it. I would treat them like Leeds.

Dan_F · Oct 31, 2021

Tomuś said:
Yeah, we just played Young Boys. And lost.

I wouldn't trust this bunch to go to Villarreal and get a result in a must win game.

Crucial to get the result this GW.

Of course, but we can’t just play the same 11 every game. Rashford is perfect on the counter and Pogba basically has to play due to the ban in the Premier League.

The young boys result isn’t even worth thinking about at this point. You don’t base your tactics and plans on games where you’re down to 10 and lose it with a horrific error in injury time.

Highfather_24 · Oct 31, 2021

We will lose 2-1.

PSV · Oct 31, 2021

Winning this would help us a lot. Both of our coming CL games are away games to formidable opponents, so here's a little rundown:

- We end up 1st or 2nd in any three-way that doesn't include Young Boys and 3rd in any three-way including Young Boys. A three-way only really occurs if we draw Young Boys in the last game though.
- If we are going to lose this and/or the next game scoring a lot of goals and losing narrowly will help us later. Atalanta has two away goals on us and Villarreal has one. Could decide.

Under the assumption that Young Boys hand out 3 points to both Atalanta and Villarreal:

If we lose...
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (3p) = 3rd.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (1p) = 3rd.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd if Villarreal don't win final game. Either 2nd or 3rd if they do (GD decides, currently Atalanta has 2 away goals).
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (1p) = 2nd if Villarreal lose their final game. 3rd if they don't.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (0p) = 3rd.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st unless Atalanta win their final game. 2nd if they do.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (1p) = 2nd regardless of outcome in the other game.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (0p) = 2nd unless Villarreal win their final game. 3rd if they do.

If we draw...
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd if Atalanta don't win final game. Either 2nd or 3rd if they do (GD decides, currently Villarreal has 1 away goal).
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (1p) = 2nd if Atalanta lose their final game. 3rd if they don't.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (0p) = 3rd.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (1p) = 1st if Atalanta and Villarreal draw. 2nd if they don't.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (0p) = 2nd if Atalanta and Villarreal don't draw. 3rd if they do.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (1p) = 1st.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (0p) = 1st unless Atalanta win their final game. 2nd if they do.

If we win...
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st unless Villarreal win their final game. 2nd if they do.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (1p) = 2nd regardless of outcome in the other game.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (0p) = 2nd unless Atalanta win their final game. 3rd if they do.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (1p) = 1st.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (0p) = 1st unless Villarreal win their final game. 2nd if they do.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (1p) = 1st.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (0p) = 1st.

The "bailout" scenarios where we lose both games but Young Boys don't:

Young Boys 1D & 1L + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd if whichever team YB held to a draw lose their final game. 3rd if they don't.
Young Boys 1D & 1L + Young Boys (1p) = 3rd.
Young Boys 1D & 1L + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.
--
Young Boys 2D + Young Boys (3p) = 1st if Villarreal and Atalanta draw the final game. 2nd if they don't.
Young Boys 2D + Young Boys (1p) = 3rd.
Young Boys 2D + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.
--
Young Boys 1W & 1L + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd if whichever team YB won against don't win their final game. 3rd if they do.
Young Boys 1W & 1L + Young Boys (1p) = 4th.
Young Boys 1W & 1L + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.
--
Young Boys 1W & 1D + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd unless Atalanta and Villarreal draws. Can get 1st by GD then.
Young Boys 1W & 1D + Young Boys (1p) = 4th unless Atalanta or Villarreal loses. Can get 3rd by GD then.
Young Boys 1W & 1D + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.

Young Boys 2W + Young Boys (3p) = 3rd unless Atalanta and Villarreal draws. If they draw, we go 2nd.
Young Boys 2W + Young Boys (1p) = 4th unless Atalanta or Villarreal loses. Can get 3rd by GD then.
Young Boys 2W + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.

Edit: Clarified three-way options.

GDaly95 · Oct 31, 2021

PSV said:
Winning this would help us a lot. Both of our coming CL games are away games to formidable opponents, so here's a little rundown:

- We end up at least 2nd in any CL advancement three-way, and 4th in any EL advancement three-way. Three-ways will only really happen if we draw Young Boys though.
- If we are going to lose this and/or the next game scoring a lot of goals and losing narrowly will help us later. Atalanta has two away goals on us and Villarreal has one. Could decide.

Under the assumption that Young Boys hand out 3 points to both Atalanta and Villarreal:

If we lose...
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (3p) = 3rd.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (1p) = 3rd.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd if Villarreal don't win final game. Either 2nd or 3rd if they do (GD decides, currently Atalanta has 2 away goals).
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (1p) = 2nd if Villarreal lose their final game. 3rd if they don't.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (0p) = 3rd.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st unless Atalanta win their final game. 2nd if they do.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (1p) = 2nd regardless of outcome in the other game.
Atalanta (0p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (0p) = 2nd unless Villarreal win their final game. 3rd if they do.

If we draw...
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd if Atalanta don't win final game. Either 2nd or 3rd if they do (GD decides, currently Villarreal has 1 away goal).
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (1p) = 2nd if Atalanta lose their final game. 3rd if they don't.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (0p) = 3rd.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (1p) = 1st if Atalanta and Villarreal draw. 2nd if they don't.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (0p) = 2nd if Atalanta and Villarreal don't draw. 3rd if they do.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (1p) = 1st.
Atalanta (1p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (0p) = 1st unless Atalanta win their final game. 2nd if they do.

If we win...
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st unless Villarreal win their final game. 2nd if they do.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (1p) = 2nd regardless of outcome in the other game.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (0p) + Young Boys (0p) = 2nd unless Atalanta win their final game. 3rd if they do.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (1p) = 1st.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (1p) + Young Boys (0p) = 1st unless Villarreal win their final game. 2nd if they do.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (3p) = 1st.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (1p) = 1st.
Atalanta (3p) + Villarreal (3p) + Young Boys (0p) = 1st.

The "bailout" scenarios where we lose both games but Young Boys don't:

Young Boys 1D & 1L + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd if whichever team YB held to a draw lose their final game. 3rd if they don't.
Young Boys 1D & 1L + Young Boys (1p) = 3rd.
Young Boys 1D & 1L + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.
--
Young Boys 2D + Young Boys (3p) = 1st if Villarreal and Atalanta draw the final game. 2nd if they don't.
Young Boys 2D + Young Boys (1p) = 3rd.
Young Boys 2D + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.
--
Young Boys 1W & 1L + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd if whichever team YB won against don't win their final game. 3rd if they do.
Young Boys 1W & 1L + Young Boys (1p) = 4th.
Young Boys 1W & 1L + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.
--
Young Boys 1W & 1D + Young Boys (3p) = 2nd unless Atalanta and Villarreal draws. Can get 1st by GD then.
Young Boys 1W & 1D + Young Boys (1p) = 4th unless Atalanta or Villarreal loses. Can get 3rd by GD then.
Young Boys 1W & 1D + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.

Young Boys 2W + Young Boys (3p) = 3rd unless Atalanta and Villarreal draws. If they draw, we go 2nd.
Young Boys 2W + Young Boys (1p) = 4th unless Atalanta or Villarreal loses. Can get 3rd by GD then.
Young Boys 2W + Young Boys (0p) = 4th.

Great post.

Tomuś · Oct 31, 2021

Dan_F said:
Of course, but we can’t just play the same 11 every game. Rashford is perfect on the counter and Pogba basically has to play due to the ban in the Premier League.

The young boys result isn’t even worth thinking about at this point. You don’t base your tactics and plans on games where you’re down to 10 and lose it with a horrific error in injury time.

3 must-winners on the trot is a bastard, true.

No idea as to what the best solution would be, I just took your post as underestimating opponents which we are in no position to.

Tomuś · Oct 31, 2021

Also, we didn't lose the group against PSG or Leipzg last year. We lost it in Turkey.

tomaldinho1 · Oct 31, 2021

Anyone know if any of their injured players are back?

Dan_F · Oct 31, 2021

Tomuś said:
3 must-winners in the trot is a bastard, true.

No idea as to what the best sokution would be, I just took your post as underestimating opponents which we are in no position to.

No definitely not, but they are probably the weakest of the three opponents on paper. You’ve gotta hope that the coaches/analyst’s got enough out of the first game to know what we need to do.

Varane will probably go a long way to stopping them scoring 2 goals with their only 2 attacks in the first half too :lol:

I don’t see any issue with going back to 4231 with Varane, in order to rest one of Cavani/Ronaldo, but then 3 at the back will give us more protection if Pogba is coming back into midfield.

Tomuś · Oct 31, 2021

Dan_F said:
No definitely not, but they are probably the weakest of the three opponents on paper. You’ve gotta hope that the coaches/analyst’s got enough out of the first game to know what we need to do.

Varane will probably go a long way to stopping them scoring 2 goals with their only 2 attacks in the first half too

I don’t see any issue with going back to 4231 with Varane, in order to rest one of Cavani/Ronaldo, but then 3 at the back will give us more protection if Pogba is coming back into midfield.

Then you've got Rashford whom you would ideally like to be fresh for City..

Then Greenwood.

And Sancho who surely has to pull the finger out at some point which would enable resting key players at least.

Tough choices.

Hughie77 · Oct 31, 2021

Keep the same formation, it solidified the midfield were the main issues have been. Change the personal if needs be but keep the back 3 and wing backs, Fred Mctom looked more controlled with more bodies in there.
Ronny starts maybe with Rashford to do the running instead of Cavani. I think a draw wouldn't be a disaster, but I think we can get a win.

Jaap · Oct 31, 2021

What are we going to do with Pogba in this 3-5-2 formation? I reckon Fred & McTominay‘ll start again, no?

Red00012 · Oct 31, 2021

RedRonaldo said:
Why everyone having AWB in their starting line up, is he done for his 3 match ban? If not:

De Gea
Dalot Lindelof Varane Maguire Shaw
McTominay Fred
Bruno
Rashford Ronaldo

Will rest Cavani for City game. We can’t ask him to press non stop for 90 mins twice a week.

He played v Atalanta he got a 1 match ban

Red00012 · Oct 31, 2021

Jaap said:
What are we going to do with Pogba in this 3-5-2 formation? I reckon Fred & McTominay‘ll start again, no?

I reckon 4231 Tuesday and back to 352 Saturday

Red00012 · Oct 31, 2021

The Brown Bull said:
Anyone else think this is a bigger game than the derby?

He needs one win out of the 2 to keep his job I reckon

Adam-Utd · Oct 31, 2021

Jaap said:
What are we going to do with Pogba in this 3-5-2 formation? I reckon Fred & McTominay‘ll start again, no?

well this was the exact formation he played at juve. the LCM as a sort of hybrid midfielder/winger.

you’d expect him to fill the same role, but that’s requiring 1 CM to sit and defend.

Bastian · Oct 31, 2021

tomaldinho1 said:
Anyone know if any of their injured players are back?

Both Gosens and Hateboer are out, Toloi and Demiral are doubts, Pessina is also out. They are pretty decimated when it comes to missing big players.

Bondi77 · Oct 31, 2021

Highfather_24 said:
We will lose 2-1.

When do you think we will win our next game?

Longlivekeano · Nov 1, 2021

———————DdG————————-

——-Bailly—Varane—Maguire——

-Dalot——Donny—Matic—Telles—

—-Sancho—Greenwood—-Pogba-

USREDEVIL · Nov 1, 2021

Seems a lot of confidence in the caf after one win against spuds . Go full strength and don’t repeat last years debacle. Leave CavanI out as he looked done

simonhch · Nov 1, 2021

DDG

Maguire ------ Varane ------ Shaw

W.Bissaka -------- V.d.Beek -------- McTominay -------- Telles

Fernandes

Ronaldo -------- Rashford

Subs: Henderson, Lindelof, Dalot, Lingard, Matic, Pogba, Sancho, Greenwood, Cavani

RedRonaldo · Nov 1, 2021

I don’t get why many people think we should rest some of our best player, this is an important CL game, yes we also have City over the weekends, but after that we have long international break.

Sky1981 · Nov 1, 2021

80m sancho as wingback.....

Dear me.....

RedSky · Nov 1, 2021

Damien said:
Lovely. Away game before facing City on the Saturday at lunchtime kick-off.

AGAIN???

Arseholes, thats like three times now right?

roonster09 · Nov 1, 2021

Sky1981 said:
80m sancho as wingback.....

Dear me.....

Dante · Nov 1, 2021

Pogba will 100% start against Atalanta. He's banned for 3 PL games, so Ole will feel duty bound to field him in the CL games. I'd expect him to take Fred's place at LCM. Either Matic or McTominay will play RCM.

And after Cavani's knock against Tottenham, Rashford is almost certainly going to start. It'll be interesting to see if he's going to be asked to replicate Cavani's pressing display from Spurs.

AWB doesn't play in internationals, so he's nailed on too. I'd be tempted to rest Shaw in favour of Telles, though.

Nou_Camp99 · Nov 1, 2021

When confidence is so low....don't change a winning team unless you have to.

People on this thread asking for 4 and 5 changes......Jesus Christ. Do you guys know anything about football?

Play the best team and get the result and then we can think about City at the weekend.

RUCK4444 · Nov 1, 2021

Nou_Camp99 said:
When confidence is so low....don't change a winning team unless you have to.

People on this thread asking for 4 and 5 changes......Jesus Christ. Do you guys know anything about football?

Play the best team and get the result and then we can think about City at the weekend.

Absolutely. Most i would change, if anything, would be maybe one of Cavani and Ronaldo as I’d like them both to play against City and Cavani looked like he pulled something.

yamo123x · Nov 1, 2021

Bwuk said:
I would keep the 3 at the back because I think we’ll do it against City. Some minor rotation.

De Gea
Lindelof - Varane - Maguire
AWB - Pogba - Matic - Donny - Telles
Ronaldo - Rashford

Not gonna happen.
Rotation in a game as important as this no chance.

ayushreddevil9 · Nov 1, 2021

Nou_Camp99 said:
When confidence is so low....don't change a winning team unless you have to.

People on this thread asking for 4 and 5 changes......Jesus Christ. Do you guys know anything about football?

Play the best team and get the result and then we can think about City at the weekend.

And the setup we had was probably best suited to both our players and coaching staff.

The two teams coming up next really struggle against counter attacking opposition.

Nou_Camp99 · Nov 1, 2021

RUCK4444 said:
Absolutely. Most i would change, if anything, would be maybe one of Cavani and Ronaldo as I’d like them both to play against City and Cavani looked like he pulled something.

Agreed. I don't think we should change anything if we don't have to. Rashford for Cavani would be fine as at least he's been in on the goals and has his mojo back it seems.

Leave everything else the same. We need some solidity and consistency.

Nou_Camp99 · Nov 1, 2021

ayushreddevil9 said:
And the setup we had was probably best suited to both our players and coaching staff.

The two teams coming up next really struggle against counter attacking opposition.

Absolutely.

And not only that but it also masks many of our weaknesses too. I don't mind us going a bit more defensive as I always fancy our forwards to score.

Had we started the season in this shape we'd probably be in the top 3 now and well in the title race.

Chaky_Best · Nov 1, 2021

Difficult to predict the team, as the starting XI that played against Spurs needs to be playing against City.

To be honest, I would try to revert back to the 4-2-3-1 as we need to get a result in this game, and don't want to repeat the Leipzig game of last season.

-----------------------------------------------De Gea------------------------------------------------
Wan Bissaka--------------Lindelof------------Maguire--------------------------Shaw
-------------------------------------------------Matic-------------------------------------------------
----------------------------Van De Beek-------------Pogba-----------------------------------
Sancho-----------------------------------Ronaldo---------------------------------Rashford

SER19 · Nov 1, 2021

Lose this and we will absolutely bottle it in Villareal. At least a point needed. I think we'll have a scrappy 1 nil win

the_cliff · Nov 1, 2021

Pronewbie said:
Don’t think we should play Catenaccio against an Italian team that knows all about it. I would treat them like Leeds.

We're going to have to, or it's going to be an embarrassment. Btw a Catenaccio doesn't necessarily mean 3 at the back but we're going to have to. There's no way after the first half of the Old Trafford game that he'll play 4 at the back against Atalanta. Gasperini isn't a dumbass.

The Hilton · Nov 1, 2021

If they play the same high line as they did at Old Trafford, then we need Rashford in for his pace on the break.

This seems like the kind of team we'd have torn apart on the break in previous seasons under Ole, so hopefully he'll go back to what he knows rather than continue with the failed high press experiment.

Jacob · Nov 1, 2021

Longlivekeano said:
———————DdG————————-

——-Bailly—Varane—Maguire——

-Dalot——Donny—Matic—Telles—

—-Sancho—Greenwood—-Pogba-

Goodbye CL

Jacob · Nov 1, 2021

DE GEA

LINDELÖF ----------- VARANE ------------- MAGUIRE

AWB -------------------------------------------------------------------------- SHAW
POGBA ----------------- SCOTT

SANCHO
RASHFORD ------------------------------ RONALDO

Rest: Bruno, Cavani, Fred

Relfy · Nov 1, 2021

Pretty much the same setup as against Spurs. One of Ronaldo or Cavani to the bench to rest their legs, or being subbed off early enough. Can see Pogba getting a game as banned from PL - a rest for one of McFred. Win this game and we're as good as through the group I believe. Be a boost prior to the City game too.

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