Burnley 0:0 Manchester United

ScarleyUtd · Aug 30, 2014

TheUnitedWay said:
Probably his reputation tbh

Yeah I agree. Still a shit decision though – ref was right there and it was an obvious shove

hbgreg · Aug 30, 2014

Esquire said:
Are you serious? This is exactly the sort of self-defeatist excuse that should be stamped the eff out right now. We are United. Even squad players on United should not have played the way we played today. Valencia and Young are full internationals but all they did today was pass the ball backwards. Evans looks completely lost. Mata was a space filler. Rooney tried hard but that's the best thing that could be said for him these days. RVP just looked disinterested. Yes you are right we have lots of people out but does that mean we get pushed around by fecking BURNLEY and looked to have no prospects of scoring even one goal? This is BURNLEY for pete's sake and we made them look very good. It's not time to panic but it is not the time to relax. It's the time to think whether the 352 works. That is not the same as panicking or deserting LVG. But as United fans we have footballing brains and can tell that today's performance was not an improvement at all. Changes are evidently needed. It is an entirely valid question to valid the system when we are not seeing what should be standard United fare - attacking mentality, penetration, commitment, risk taking. None of these traits were present today.

If you don't listen to the managers comments and are ignorant to his track record there's nothing anybody can do for you. Not everything can be fixed with one transfer window. It's not for you or I to say whether it works or not, it's for Louis van Gaal to say whether it works or not.

I don't really know what you're trying to say, Rafael and Shaw are injured. Rojo doesn't have a work permit, Herrera is injured. Who do you want us to play? How will RvP get match fit without playing? Sure it's not acceptable, Manchester United plays to entertain their fans, solely for that purpose, and none of us are entertained. That being said, this is where we have fallen and we've taken the only guy who can rebuild us and we need to give him time.

Bayern also started poorly without injuries, they turned it around and won the league. No, this is not the United we are used to but this is a rebuilding process and it takes time. It'd be nice to sign six or seven world class players and fit them into the system and they understand it fully right away but it doesn't work like that.

Luigi Galvani · Aug 30, 2014

Utd should buy a right back dont know who though, they should have pursued debuchy, sagna. Buy someone even abate worst case and please shift to 4-3-3. Rooney can play on the lw/rw or feck off I don't mind. He was horrible as a striker and no excuses for him unlike persie who atleast is not 100% .

blazinRe'D' · Aug 30, 2014

Esquire said:
It's just honestly very hard to see us struggle to get into threatening positions into the final third.

Yea pretty much how it went last season too , im not gonna overreact cause its just been the start of the league and yea its highly probable than van gaal's methods havent been inculcated completely yet, but these are the games we are gonna kick ourselves for not bringing in the points at the end of the season.

marc1_007 · Aug 30, 2014

Van Gaal has to drop Van Persie or Rooney because they just do not combine well together, they are better off playing Welbeck with one of them because at least he can stretch the defence and he combines well with either one of them better than they do with each other, plus the Ronaldo, Di Maria combination was devastating and it worked because of the pace of both men but how is Di Maria going to combine to such effect with Rooney or Van Persie when they have no pace whatsoever. Welbeck might be the key to unlocking the greatness that Di Maria can potentially produce for Utd.

sgm8 · Aug 30, 2014

Lvg out Moyes in

minoo-utd · Aug 30, 2014

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DomesticTadpole · Aug 30, 2014

Esquire said:
Alex Stepny on MUTV says De Gea had no options today when playing balls out. He said "no one in midfield wants it"... what a statement especially made on MUTV.

He's right, but David May has already said recently that we also need a CB who is happy to come out with the ball, to get it quicker to the midfield. Blind might do that for us in midfield by coming back for the ball. Maybe Jones would do it if he had safer defenders round him.

KieranMUFC · Aug 30, 2014

bosnian_red said:
3-5-2 isn't his philosophy, it's the system. Big difference, yet so many people seem to ignore it.

Terrible either way.

DomesticTadpole · Aug 30, 2014

bosnian_red said:
3-5-2 isn't his philosophy, it's the system. Big difference, yet so many people seem to ignore it.

I think he likes 433, but the injuries at the back are preventing him playing it. Hopefully after the break he will have the personel to play it.

Jaytay · Aug 30, 2014

Dump that 3-5-2 even bottom teams are looking tough.

bosnian_red · Aug 30, 2014

Esquire said:
Can someone please enlighten us as to why LVG is such an advocate for the 352 these days? Wasn't he a 433 man at Barca and Bayern? Know that he wanted to use 352 for the WC because he didn't have top CBs and lost Strootman for the anchor position. But surely (as evidenced by the transfer sums we paid out this window), we can buy the correct personnel for the 433 or 4231?

Well so far this season we've had injuries that have forced us to use it and before now didn't have di Maria or anyone better then complete shit out wide to partner januzaj on the wings. Why use a 4-3-3 where the wings are so important when they are so shit for us. Also Rooney-van Persie and mata play a part in the 3-5-2. We haven't had the players for a 4-3-3 so far though.

Offside · Aug 30, 2014

We've always got an injury crisis. Never have there been so many injury prone players in a squad.

And it's our own fault the likes of Rojo and Blind didn't play because we left it too late to sign them, costing us early points.

Man of Steel · Aug 30, 2014

hbgreg said:
Well if it's hard for you to relax, imagine how hard it is for LvG and his staff. Louis isn't an amateur, he's been at all the top clubs and won. He's not a nobody, we should have full faith in him.

I'm confused. You said to 'relax' in your post?. I do agree about LVG, I am aware of his past record. Just saying it's a hard watch at the moment.

I'm going to stick to the general on matchdays I think. It's loco in here.

hbgreg · Aug 30, 2014

Micha said:
Because you can still field Mata, RvP, Rooney, because you still have lots of promise in Januzaj, Jones and Welbeck and because players like Young, Fletcher, Valencia might not be starting quality for United, but still should be able to put in a shift.
Because after last season excuses are just not acceptable anymore.

I agree, though, that it is obviously way too early for panic and that our teamsheet will look a lot different when our main players are fit (or signed). But noone is interested in our injuries because the players finally have to accept some responsibility. It has come to the point where I think the teamtalk before the game goes like this:

"Listen up, guys, just go out there and wait for the final whistle. Noone can and noone will expect you to win any match until [insert random player name] is fit."
Honestly, it is like we pay our players only for arriving on time for kick-off, not for actually playing.

RvP isn't fit, Mata has been invisible, Rooney also hasn't played well. What do you mean? Did you really expect Louis van Gaal to come in here and after a month or two have all the players he wants and have them playing exactly how the system dictates? Is it his fault there's been years of under investment and we can't win that way anymore? Januzaj has promise but no end product, Jones has been one of our best players so far (not saying much).

We have a lot of dead wood. You're right, Young, Fletcher, Valencia SHOULD be able to put in a shift, but they can't, that's been evident for longer than just this year and now you realize what kind of job Louis van Gaal has on his hands.

Some people just aren't realizing there's not enough quality in this United squad, especially with so many not fit. That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

DomesticTadpole · Aug 30, 2014

hbgreg said:
If you don't listen to the managers comments and are ignorant to his track record there's nothing anybody can do for you. Not everything can be fixed with one transfer window. It's not for you or I to say whether it works or not, it's for Louis van Gaal to say whether it works or not.

I don't really know what you're trying to say, Rafael and Shaw are injured. Rojo doesn't have a work permit, Herrera is injured. Who do you want us to play? How will RvP get match fit without playing? Sure it's not acceptable, Manchester United plays to entertain their fans, solely for that purpose, and none of us are entertained. That being said, this is where we have fallen and we've taken the only guy who can rebuild us and we need to give him time.

Bayern also started poorly without injuries, they turned it around and won the league. No, this is not the United we are used to but this is a rebuilding process and it takes time. It'd be nice to sign six or seven world class players and fit them into the system and they understand it fully right away but it doesn't work like that.

I think it will take this season to get things up and running, maybe next summer transfer window as well. Injuries have seriously conspired against him right from the start. Get players back, play the system he actually wants to play and hopefully things will look up. This team need a clearout and on a bigger scale than any of us would admit to.

bosnian_red · Aug 30, 2014

Jaytay said:
Dump that 3-5-2 even bottom teams are looking tough.

We can't change to a back 4 until our fullbacks are fit actually.

Esquire · Aug 30, 2014

bosnian_red said:
Well so far this season we've had injuries that have forced us to use it and before now didn't have di Maria or anyone better then complete shit out wide to partner januzaj on the wings. Why use a 4-3-3 where the wings are so important when they are so shit for us. Also Rooney-van Persie and mata play a part in the 3-5-2. We haven't had the players for a 4-3-3 so far though.

Fair point but now that we have AD11 and ADM we can at least have a rethink on the formation. Mata Herrara and Carrick as the mid 3 should be, at least on paper, a positive. That can at least give us a back four to calm the nervous souls back there right now. I love RvP but he should be dropped.

blazinRe'D' · Aug 30, 2014

im not sure how getting anderson was contributing towards our advantage tbh , the lad looks as fit as a woman in labour , pretty sure there were better alternatives for a better chance at winning the game

santeria13 · Aug 30, 2014

Rooney should be dropped for the sake of the team. Honestly, what did he do, if anything in the last two games? RVP's finishing was off today but at least he got into good positions and had some good chances. Mata, Rooney and RVP doesn't work, never will and until one of them is dropped our attack will suffer.

Man of Steel · Aug 30, 2014

scholesboot said:
We have spent an absolute fortune and have brought in players where we need to. It will not be fixed in one window

You think we got the best available midfielders or defenders then? di maria is not the answer to our problems. If strootman comes in january okay, but you talk as though we signed world class players and loads of them.

hbgreg · Aug 30, 2014

SeresticTadpole said:
I think it will take this season to get things up and running, maybe next summer transfer window as well. Injuries have seriously conspired against him right from the start. Get players back, play the system he actually wants to play and hopefully things will look up. This team need a clearout and on a bigger scale than any of us would admit to.

Yeah, I have to agree. This isn't a two month fix, this will take time to rebuild.

Man of Steel said:
I'm confused. You said to 'relax' in your post?. I do agree about LVG, I am aware of his past record. Just saying it's a hard watch at the moment.

I'm going to stick to the general on matchdays I think. It's loco in here.

I was just making the point that if it's difficult for the supporters to relax, it isn't any easier for LvG or the staff. Yeah, nobody wants to watch the crap we're playing now.

Esquire · Aug 30, 2014

hbgreg said:
If you don't listen to the managers comments and are ignorant to his track record there's nothing anybody can do for you. Not everything can be fixed with one transfer window. It's not for you or I to say whether it works or not, it's for Louis van Gaal to say whether it works or not.

I don't really know what you're trying to say, Rafael and Shaw are injured. Rojo doesn't have a work permit, Herrera is injured. Who do you want us to play? How will RvP get match fit without playing? Sure it's not acceptable, Manchester United plays to entertain their fans, solely for that purpose, and none of us are entertained. That being said, this is where we have fallen and we've taken the only guy who can rebuild us and we need to give him time.

Bayern also started poorly without injuries, they turned it around and won the league. No, this is not the United we are used to but this is a rebuilding process and it takes time. It'd be nice to sign six or seven world class players and fit them into the system and they understand it fully right away but it doesn't work like that.

You obviously miss my point. I agree we should be patient but at the same time we need to changes things up if the system is not working. Further, no matter how crappy we are, you would agree we should not have played this badly against a newly promoted side today.

santeria13 · Aug 30, 2014

Esquire said:
Fair point but now that we have AD11 and ADM we can at least have a rethink on the formation. Mata Herrara and Carrick as the mid 3 should be, at least on paper, a positive. That can at least give us a back four to calm the nervous souls back there right now. I love RvP but he should be dropped.

What has Rooney done that is any better than RVP's contribution in the last two games? At least RVP was capable of being on the end of a few chances. Rooney is just so static and for feck sake why does he decide to take 5 seconds on the ball at least every time het gets it? He consistently takes the sting out of our attack

tom porter · Aug 30, 2014

One of the absolute worst Manchester United performances I've ever seen. No rhythem, no movement off the ball, and we just don't have it. We will be lucky to finish in the top half, let alone the top 4 the way we are headed at the moment.

The 3-5-2 needs to be abandoned immediately. 4 games, 2 ties, 2 losses with 2 goals scored one of which was from a dead ball situation. LVG can't be so blind that he doesn't see how piss poor Valencia and Young are as wing backs. Buy someone like Cuadrado who can play at rb or on the rw and when Rafa is hurt we can still play 4-3-3. Also, why did we sell evra before we had a left back lined up to replace him? This system just does not work because the back 5 are simple not good enough, and also not comfortable enough in the system.

Unfortunately, we have taken a massive step back from the piss poor team we were last season between the loss of experience, injuries, and LVG's naive idea to introduce the 3-5-2 to a team rooted in playing a traditional back 4. As Manchester United fans we have to keep the faith but as a Yank fan waking up at 6:30 am to watch these games it's very difficult to see the positives in such a poor all-around performance.

Esquire · Aug 30, 2014

santeria13 said:
What has Rooney done that is any better than RVP's contribution in the last two games? At least RVP was capable of being on the end of a few chances. Rooney is just so static and for feck sake why does he decide to take 5 seconds on the ball at least every time het gets it? He consistently takes the sting out of our attack

Well, I'm not going to argue with you here. Pick either RVP or Rooney. RVP just seems a little more off pace to me.

scholesboot · Aug 30, 2014

Man of Steel said:
You think we got the best available midfielders or defenders then? di maria is not the answer to our problems. If strootman comes in january okay, but you talk as though we signed world class players and loads of them.

So who would you rather have as a winger than di Maria? He will play centrally to start with but he will be a winger for us. Herrera is going to be an excellent player for us. Shaw is one who will improve. Rojo I am neutral on and Blind will be a great little addition so who should we have brought?

DatIrishFella · Aug 30, 2014

Any post match interviews floating around?

Man of Steel · Aug 30, 2014

hbgreg said:
I was just making the point that if it's difficult for the supporters to relax, it isn't any easier for LvG or the staff. Yeah, nobody wants to watch the crap we're playing now.

No worries man, I hear ya. Time is what we need but fourth place is looking shaky. Hopefully by November December time we will all be watching a good team climbing steadily up the table.

santeria13 · Aug 30, 2014

Esquire said:
Well, I'm not going to argue with you here. Pick either RVP or Rooney. RVP just seems a little more off pace to me.

Indeed one of them must be dropped. As to who, it is just personal preference but I believe both are long past their best days. I just think Rooney is so dreadful in every aspect of his game except his shooting/poaching abilities right now. He can't beat a man, he has no pace, his short passing ability is woeful, he consistently runs into other players spaces(did it a few times today with RVP, mata and Welbeck), he has no tactical discipline and holds on to the ball far longer than he should along with allowing the whole opposition team to regroup in the process. RVP is still more than capable of doing the same things that Rooney does, as well as being slightly better in the other departments IMO.

hbgreg · Aug 30, 2014

Esquire said:
You obviously miss my point. I agree we should be patient but at the same time we need to changes things up if the system is not working. Further, no matter how crappy we are, you would agree we should not have played this badly against a newly promoted side today.

Yeah, absolutely, this is no way to be playing. I'm not saying that this is acceptable, I'm saying I don't think LvG wants to start Young, Valencia, Fletcher. Rather he'd start Shaw, Herrera, Rafael, those three look a lot better and when they're on the pitch we'll be playing a lot better.

Micha · Aug 30, 2014

hbgreg said:
RvP isn't fit, Mata has been invisible, Rooney also hasn't played well. What do you mean? Did you really expect Louis van Gaal to come in here and after a month or two have all the players he wants and have them playing exactly how the system dictates? Is it his fault there's been years of under investment and we can't win that way anymore? Januzaj has promise but no end product, Jones has been one of our best players so far (not saying much).

We have a lot of dead wood. You're right, Young, Fletcher, Valencia SHOULD be able to put in a shift, but they can't, that's been evident for longer than just this year and now you realize what kind of job Louis van Gaal has on his hands.

Some people just aren't realizing there's not enough quality in this United squad, especially with so many not fit. That's not an excuse, it's a fact.

I am not blaming LvG, I am speaking generally.
The issue for me is that we don't expect anything of these players anymore. With this attitude, basically we would need to buy 11 new players and some more for the bench, which is of course ridicoulous. We should still be expecting these players to deliever something as well. I am not expecting them to compete with Chelsea or City, but I am most certainly expecting them to compete with Burnley.

blazinRe'D' · Aug 30, 2014

Esquire said:
Well, I'm not going to argue with you here. Pick either RVP or Rooney. RVP just seems a little more off pace to me.

Kinda agree, of the two rooney atleast tracks back and covers for the team , which we notice time and again that rvp seems to not even consider. The work rates of the two on an average are miles apart imo

Rudi j · Aug 30, 2014

Dont know wat you fellars have been watching but rooneys been one of the worst players so far and that's saying something.

blazinRe'D' · Aug 30, 2014

blazinRe'D' said:
Kinda agree, of the two rooney atleast tracks back and covers for the team , which we notice time and again that rvp seems to not even consider. The work rates of the two on an average are miles apart imo

which is why im really concerned to us selling welbeck , his relentless attitude deserves a place in the team, and his pace is unparalleled. Could be a major mistake in the happening

Januzamania · Aug 30, 2014

How can someone who crosses for living can be that bad at it? valencia young evans all have to go.

hbgreg · Aug 30, 2014

[QOUTE="Micha, post: 16375406, member: 65472"]I am not blaming LvG, I am speaking generally.
The issue for me is that we don't expect anything of these players anymore. With this attitude, basically we would need to buy 11 new players and some more for the bench, which is of course ridicoulous. We should still be expecting these players to deliever something as well. I am not expecting them to compete with Chelsea or City, but I am most certainly expecting them to compete with Burnley.[/QUOTE]

You can expect all you want but he put these players on the pitch today and they didn't compete. Whether it's just them being crap at football, or it's the system, isn't something I have to evaluate, LvG does.

James-The-Red · Aug 30, 2014

Can't wait for Daley Blind to sign. Can easily take Young's place on the left or sit in the middle. Either would improve us massively right now.

santeria13 · Aug 30, 2014

blazinRe'D' said:
Kinda agree, of the two rooney atleast tracks back and covers for the team , which we notice time and again that rvp seems to not even consider. The work rates of the two on an average are miles apart imo

The striker shouldn't have to run back and cover for the team. Their job in this formation is solely to score goals and the fact that Rooney keeps dropping so deep is only detrimental to our build up play. He just runs around like a headless ape doing nothing except for looking like he is putting in effort.

Januzamania · Aug 30, 2014

part of me died watching todays gutless performance... i had so much hope..

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