Manchester United 1:1 Arsenal

Water Melon · Sep 29, 2019

Denis' cuff said:
Trouble is, we’re a football club, not a fecking bank. The football club is being eroded year by year. Nothing Ole or a DOF can do when they are told the wage bill has to be cut to meet financial targets, regardless of its effect on the team/squad. Think of the dividends. Doesn’t matter whether ole, a DOF, Pep, Jose or Joey fecking Barton is in charge, they are not in charge but merely there to cop the flak whilst the Glazers cream the profits.

Agree with this. We are a plc, not a football club. Such a shame.

pacifictheme · Sep 29, 2019

FootballHQ said:
What difference in money does it make if it's on Saturday lunchtime, Sunday afternoon or Monday evening?

I have a feeling 8pm is better for more territories. That may be incorrect though.

LuisNaniencia · Sep 29, 2019

We are 11th, 13 points behind Liverpool. 3 points above the relegation zone. If this isnt a must win I don't know what is.

FootballHQ · Sep 29, 2019

nokillingmoths said:
I have a feeling 8pm is better for more territories. That may be incorrect though.

Saturday or Sunday lunch time is prime time for Asian countries. 8pm is better for America market though.

Monday night is generally used for mid table/relegation matches. Us (Villa) are on again in that slot v Newcastle in November so just surprise a big premier league match is in that slot even if both teams have declined in last five years.

yamo123x · Sep 29, 2019

I can see a scrappy 1-0 win or a score draw in this one.

Must win game IMHO if we still want top 4.

C'est Moi Cantona · Sep 29, 2019

Sad when you go into a home game thinking a win would be a surprise result.

McGrathsipan · Sep 29, 2019

C'est Moi Cantona said:
Sad when you go into a home game thinking a win would be a surprise result.

Going into any game expecting a win these days is the norm!

The United we knew is finished. Gone. Over. Times have changed.

I think what are now will be par for the course for a good few years

Alabaster Codify7 · Sep 29, 2019

yamo123x said:
I can see a scrappy 1-0 win or a score draw in this one.

Must win game IMHO if we still want top 4.

I honestly cannot wrap my head around the fact that some fans are still remotely considering this to be an option. We are 11th in the league, we can't buy a goal, we have key players injured already and a paper-thin squad. We will not even make top 6.

haram · Sep 29, 2019

C'est Moi Cantona said:
Sad when you go into a home game thinking a win would be a surprise result.

Especially a home game against Arsenal.

C'est Moi Cantona · Sep 29, 2019

McGrathsipan said:
Going into any game expecting a win these days is the norm!

The United we knew is finished. Gone. Over. Times have changed.

I think what are now will be par for the course for a good few years

I'm not so sure, I think this season is going to be something non of us have seen for a long time, it's no exaggeration to say that we could struggle to make the top 8, which would be cataclysmic for us, and I am not blaming Ole by the way.

Red Dreams · Sep 29, 2019

We will be lucky to make Top 10.
We don't have a midfield.

Injuries will pile up because we have a thin squad.

Woodward and the board have to take the full blame. But they wont.

Any manager with this squad will have been set up to fail.

C'est Moi Cantona · Sep 29, 2019

haram said:
Especially a home game against Arsenal.

Indeed, but they have a better team than us, so they'll likely beat us.

McGrathsipan · Sep 29, 2019

C'est Moi Cantona said:
I'm not so sure, I think this season is going to be something non of us have seen for a long time, it's no exaggeration to say that we could struggle to make the top 8, which would be cataclysmic for us, and I am not blaming Ole by the way.

Totally agree. Wouldn't Surpsise me if we finish 12th. Not at all.

We literally don't have a good team. Its that simple. Ill be surprised if we finish top 6.
Anywhere between 8th and 12th is about the level of this side.

RedDevilRoshi · Sep 29, 2019

Adcuth said:
That teams exactly what I've predicted. Looks shit though

I know.

Only players we have available that are not injured.

C'est Moi Cantona · Sep 29, 2019

McGrathsipan said:
Totally agree. Wouldn't Surpsise me if we finish 12th. Not at all.

We literally don't have a good team. Its that simple. Ill be surprised if we finish top 6.
Anywhere between 8th and 12th is about the level of this side.

Yes, so with that in mind then Ole shouldn't be bashed every game we lose, whoever's fault it is he has been left with a poor squad, and the right results will follow.

UncleBob · Sep 29, 2019

Denis' cuff said:
Trouble is, we’re a football club, not a fecking bank. The football club is being eroded year by year. Nothing Ole or a DOF can do when they are told the wage bill has to be cut to meet financial targets, regardless of its effect on the team/squad. Think of the dividends. Doesn’t matter whether ole, a DOF, Pep, Jose or Joey fecking Barton is in charge, they are not in charge but merely there to cop the flak whilst the Glazers cream the profits.

Since Fergie retired we've spent £850mill in transfer fees, 4th highest wage bill in the world with only City, Real Madrid and Barcelona above us.

Essentially, you're full of shit.

Thanks.

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Sep 29, 2019

The Boy said:
I am in Jakarta at the moment and this match is being advertised as the “Clash of Struggler”

Fair?

Harsh on Arsenal :lol:

Melville Red · Sep 29, 2019

haram said:
All of this and you cannot see that all he has done is managed Molde. Rome was not built in a day (or 7 as you put it), but Ole cannot build it period.

And the mighty Cardiff don’t forget that and what happened there.

Well it’s a factor.

Rozay · Sep 29, 2019

Denis' cuff said:
Trouble is, we’re a football club, not a fecking bank. The football club is being eroded year by year. Nothing Ole or a DOF can do when they are told the wage bill has to be cut to meet financial targets, regardless of its effect on the team/squad. Think of the dividends. Doesn’t matter whether ole, a DOF, Pep, Jose or Joey fecking Barton is in charge, they are not in charge but merely there to cop the flak whilst the Glazers cream the profits.

We won’t be a fecking football club for much longer if our accounts are not healthy. That’s a ridiculous attack, we are famously generous with wages, this is just ranting.

Red00012 · Sep 29, 2019

Walters_19_MuFc said:
Watford went head to head with Arsenal a couple of weeks ago with the team below:

Foster
Feminia Dawson Kabasele Holebas
Capoue Doucoure
Hughes Cleverley Deulofeu
Gray

Regardless of the players we have out, if we have some belief, we can cause this Arsenal team problems. Lets attack them and make things happen.

Cleverley would get a game tomorrow night if he was here, that’s how bad it is at the moment.

ColvaleGoa · Sep 29, 2019

This is all set up to make a miserable week ahead for us. At least Work will keep mind off things United.

dwd · Sep 29, 2019

Gonna be absolutely pissing it down tomorrow night which should make the walk to and from the ground an absolute delight. Joyous.

OldPop · Sep 29, 2019

sglowrider said:
Its like change management or even having to rebuild organisations. You have to strip off the fats and then fix what you perceive to be your highest priorities given the limitations --- by limitations I am referring to financials.

We have had bad buys/assets, poor performance and yet Woodward has obligations to the owners/shareholders. He has to manage their financial expectations year on year.

That is sacrosanct as far as he is concerned. Therefore, he has to limit spendings and management of cashflows in order to manage the market's financial expectations of United. We will not have CL money this coming financial year, losing value on the assets, runaway wage bill and I am sure they have long terms plans on other spendings besides on transfer of players.

For Ole, Rome cannot be built in seven days because of the fiduciary obligations Woodward has to his bosses. He has to work within a budget.

So based on that basic premise, whats Ole to do? Chop the fat off first (Whether useless players or wage obligations) and fix your most outstanding operational needs. In Ole's view, its the defence -- despite spending and the purchases made by the previous managers. (I dont particularly agree with him but I am a fan so i dont see whats going on at the training field.)

Beyond that there isnt much left to spend on -- so Ole has to gamble. Gamble on kids who are practically free.

Thats the decision made in August.

As to why we have performed badly? He is trying to instil a philosophy. Well as they say, its takes many more times more energy/effort to teach an older player than a young kid something new.
I am sure players like Matic or even Pogba -- never mind the likes of Sanchez etc arent following Ole's vision and instructions.

Even the younger players are struggling but theoretically its easier. So what do you do, you keep practising it on the field till you get the basics right first.

With our limited squad and abilities, I can see us only being a counter-attacking team.

Then if the kids or the rest of the teams improves and we can buy more players next transfer window, that will widen our different styles of play then we do so. But we are back to basic at the moment. Add layers later.

You need to take your United tinted glasses off and look at United like some dysfunctional organisation that has undergone the various changes in approaches that we have had in the past six years and you can see the logical but handcuffed approach that Ole has under-taken.
Forget about comparing it with the teams of 94, 98 or 2006.

Ole has a more difficult take that Fergie when he first joined United. The expectations and the patience afforded to managers there wasnt in as short supply as it is now. Most managers are expected to have 3 transfer windows -- Ole only has had ONE and people are calling for his sacking. And a former player/legend at that. Disgraceful.

FYI. Fergie had to chop off a lot of deadwood as his first point of action too.

Good analysis, I think your conclusions are in line with the reality Ole has to deal with. My feeling is that he is doing the right things but receiving criticism for the mess that previous coach exchanges have caused.

I really hope he gets a couple of years to build something new, to get rid of him now would be idiotic. It's naive to think it's a quick fix.

FerociousCorgis · Sep 30, 2019

OldPop said:
Good analysis, I think your conclusions are in line with the reality Ole has to deal with. My feeling is that he is doing the right things but receiving criticism for the mess that previous coach exchanges have caused.

I really hope he gets a couple of years to build something new, to get rid of him now would be idiotic. It's naive to think it's a quick fix.

idiotic to get rid of him? So if hypothetically we lose the next 3 games and are in a relegation spot it is idiotic to do something? How about if we are there at end of october? November? December? A club this size should be embarrassed if after 9/10 games they are in relegation spot.

Hopefully they show up this stretch but i mean at some point Ole has to be held accountable for what is being shown on field.

Im red2 · Sep 30, 2019

To be fair to Ole I do not think he was fully backed in the last window and did not get the players he would have liked. But being honest even if he did I doubt he would have known what to do with them.

ash_86 · Sep 30, 2019

Don't worry we always do well against t top 6 sides.

Im red2 · Sep 30, 2019

Ole will never get us out of this mess, especially as he is not being given any chance to do so, he is not allowed to call the shots. The shots are still being called by the same clown that has called them for the last 7 years "Ed Woodward" I have no faith in Ole as a manager, but I have even less in Woodward as the CEO and current director of football. First and most important issue has to be "Woodward Out" 2nd issue a new manager someone with a track record.

sglowrider · Sep 30, 2019

Im red2 said:
Ole will never get us out of this mess, especially as he is not being given any chance to do so, he is not allowed to call the shots. The shots are still being called by the same clown that has called them for the last 7 years "Ed Woodward" I have no faith in Ole as a manager, but I have even less in Woodward as the CEO and current director of football. First and most important issue has to be "Woodward Out" 2nd issue a new manager someone with a track record.

Good idea... we need to try that sometime instead of all the novices we had the past seven years.

MikeKing · Sep 30, 2019

Im red2 said:
To be fair to Ole I do not think he was fully backed in the last window and did not get the players he would have liked. But being honest even if he did I doubt he would have known what to do with them.

Maybe, but the sort of season we went into here is where you often see unstable clubs change managers like 3 times in a season. The problem is unsolvable short term, it has to be done in the transfer-market. If Ole had a track-record we would be right behind him, but because he doesn't have it nobody is giving him time, despite him not doing worse than what I would expect any manager to do under the same conditions. He has been better than Mourinho so far.

If we can bounce back against Arsenal, or he makes a good sub or something like that it might reflect poorly on many of the negative arguments I've read about Ole lately. Only way to prove himself in game management is doing exactly that, it should be one of the easier tasks to get fans back on his side.

minoo-utd · Sep 30, 2019

This season OMG. First time of my life I wish I don't watch us play. It feels like our club is finished and it will take even more years to rise again, because we can't see any movement and plans and visions from that fecking board. And Ole is not the one of course who can make us play better football. Yes things look very grim. Something big need to change and I have no clue where we should start, buying 4 5 players? Changing manager? Both? Selling the club! But Woodward fecking off looks like never gonna happen.

ArjenIsM3 · Sep 30, 2019

We're not winning this. Not with our injuries and form.

manunited1919 · Sep 30, 2019

Red Dreams said:
We will be lucky to make Top 10.
We don't have a midfield.

Injuries will pile up because we have a thin squad.

Woodward and the board have to take the full blame. But they wont.

Any manager with this squad will have been set up to fail.

There is plenty of blame to go around. Why ship Smalling to Roma? Why get rid of Lukaku thinking (hoping) Martial, Rashy & Greenwood would do? Why pay £80m for Maguire when it was obvios we had a hole the size of Australia in our midfield? The whole Brexit philosophy for our players - that’s not coming from Woodward. Ole will take the blame. But there have been other ex-players that have also pushed for the type of transfer window we just saw.

sglowrider · Sep 30, 2019

OldPop said:
Good analysis, I think your conclusions are in line with the reality Ole has to deal with. My feeling is that he is doing the right things but receiving criticism for the mess that previous coach exchanges have caused.

I really hope he gets a couple of years to build something new, to get rid of him now would be idiotic. It's naive to think it's a quick fix.

This.

Those of you who have gone into a new company and tried to change things from the performance to the culture of the workplace will know how difficult it is. But you all have been given time and will not be judged twice a week unlike in Ole's case.

We have tried every way possible. There are only so many orifices.... Get a traditional British sort. Then go long term and get a philosophical sea change sort then when that didnt work, we needed a quick/guarantee win type to relief some pressures by winning.

Now we are stuck with the ensalada of 'talent.'

What manager in the world can implement his vision and style with that ensalada? No one.

By getting Ole, Woodward is back to taking a long term view of now, re-building the club ie developing its new/old identity.

Now, what's the first thing you need to do? Chop off those who you think will not ft your new identity. Plus they need to reduce the wage bill as mentioned earlier. At least Woodward will have some positive news to announce later.

If you look at his next step, addressing the highest operational priority, the defence and change 50% of a back four, I would say Ole's choices have been pretty good.

In fact, all three buys so far have been pretty good -- considering that it would be his first transfers and the amount of pressure on Ole and his team to get it right must have been incredible considering the clusterfeck performances towards the end of last season.

So far I think he has taken the simple but most logical steps given the financial and organisational constraints.

Implementation of his ideas/philosophy etc is another issue. But that was never an overnight job as some so naively think it was meant to be. Football teams consist of people. It aint some lego set.
Our problems run deep and will not be some quick fix. We will just need to go through the pain to hope things get better.

If Woodward chickens out based on social media pressure then he's a fool -- then I am sure we will be back to short term fixes again. He'll need another 'quick win.'

The grass isnt always greener either -- those of you pining for Poch, need to ask yourselves, what has he done? Has done well in clubs that have no pressure to win. ZERO Pressure.
The moment there were some expectations on Poch to win silverware, he has a meltdown making odd statements.

Not Poch, then Nagelmann? Another fella who has managed in clubs with no pressure to win every week never mind silverware. We will keep go after the lastest hottest managers.

Bottomline is that there are no quick sure answers. But to start shouting for one of our own to get the sack after ONE transfer window is just stupid.

It says more about yourself than anything else. One you clearly have never been in a culture change environment at work.

Secondly, if you are so willing to throw out one of your own means that loyalty is meaningless and its all about 'winning' -- then you need to question yourself because then its starting to sound Trumpish and you should then go start supporting City or now Liverpool and come back when United starts winning again.

Finally, there just aren't many who can do well under high-pressure situations ie the necessity to win jobs. Play nice football, sure there are quite a few out there. FFS even Chris Wilder can be considered innovative but can he win silverware?

Ole's got the toughest job in the world right now. Fatch.

If we cant stick by one of our own, even within three transfer window, who can we get? Some egotistical guy who thing only he can fix this mess? Or some greenhorn who has no idea what its like at United never mind managing the scale of the place -- he crumbles after a year then we sack him?

There are many options left for Woodward to be honest. He isnt kneejerking by going with Ole. Its a long term plan with Ole otherwise, the United job becomes a poison chalice.

Bulldog United · Sep 30, 2019

Annihilate Now! said:
Can anyone explain why the feck we're not playing today? There's no PL lunch time game, yet both us and Arsenal have Europa League games and are still playing on Monday? Makes zero sense

The Premier League sells TV packages based on different time slots. BT Sport has the Saturday lunchtime slot. Sky has the rights to Monday Night Football. As part of these packages, the broadcasters are guaranteed a certain number of first pick games in different slots. It's fiendishly complicated, and there's a huge amount of discussion about the strategy behind these TV picks on another forum, but essentially it's how you end up with stuff like tonight's game being played on a Monday.

The match-going fans are an afterthought in all of the above of course.

MikeKing · Sep 30, 2019

sglowrider said:
Secondly, if you are so willing to throw out one of your own means that loyalty is meaningless and its all about 'winning' -- then you need to question yourself because then its starting to sound Trumpish and you should then go start supporting City or now Liverpool and come back when United starts winning again.

Firstly, good post. Secondly, I actually know a guy that has no shame in admitting to shifting his alliance between clubs. He is heavily critical of Ole now, just straight hating on him, he supports Liverpool for the moment. United and Liverpool are his main clubs, go figure.

sglowrider · Sep 30, 2019

MikeKing said:
Firstly, good post. Secondly, I actually know a guy that has no shame in admitting to shifting his alliance between clubs. He is heavily critical of Ole now, just straight hating on him, he supports Liverpool for the moment. United and Liverpool are his main clubs, go figure.

Says a lot about the guy. Like Trump, money is the only thing that gives him self-esteem. In your mate's case, the associated 'winning' feeling is the only thing that makes him feel good about himself -- off the backs of some virtual people/players.

Personally, as much as it pains me with the journey United has to undergo, its always part of the fun.

The journey is always more interesting than the destination.

MikeKing · Sep 30, 2019

sglowrider said:
Says a lot about the guy. Like Trump, money is the only thing that gives him self-esteem. In your mate's case, the associated 'winning' feeling is the only thing that makes him feel good about himself -- off the backs of some virtual people/players.

Personally, as much as it pains me with the journey United has to undergo, its always part of the fun.

The journey is always more interesting than the destination.

You aren't wrong about that you know. I sort of encourage it too, if it makes him happy that is fine, but it is crazy. Doesn't really help when he is just hating on one thing and loving the other thing in a beautiful chaos.

I have felt more attached to the club since things got rough. I had to be more invested than earlier when I could put my feet up and just watch us win and move on.

sglowrider · Sep 30, 2019

MikeKing said:
You aren't wrong about that you know. I sort of encourage it too, if it makes him happy that is fine, but it is crazy. Doesn't really help when he is just hating on one thing and loving the other thing in a beautiful chaos.

I have felt more attached to the club since things got rough. I had to be more invested than earlier when I could put my feet up and just watch us win and move on.

I guess you have just illustrated the difference between a fan and a supporter. Lots of folks here who dont realise they are basically fans of United and not United supporters.

luke511 · Sep 30, 2019

Would be a fan of this set up, will lose my shit if Lingard, Mata or Pereira are involved.

James Martial Greenwood
Gomes
Pogba McTominay

Beans · Sep 30, 2019

luke511 said:
Would be a fan of this set up, will lose my shit if Lingard, Mata or Pereira are involved.

James Martial Greenwood
Gomes
Pogba McTominay

Better sit on the toilet when it's time for squads to be announced. We've only got 14 players fit who have seen significant minutes!

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