Manchester United 1:1 Chelsea

Mali_Zeus · Oct 21, 2014

vibe said:
Football doesn't work any way, mate. So for me to say that we'll get battered 0-7 is exactly as ridiculous as you saying we will, absolutely and by no circumstance get battered. We can't predict the future, especially in a game so unpredictable. Both of our guesses are equally as arbitrary.

All we have to go by is assumptions. And I'm just saying us getting our backsides handed to us on a blue platter with a little lion engraved on it is the most logical outcome. That doesn't mean it HAS to and WILL happen, just that it makes the most sense.

Fair enough. We'll see what will happen. Everybody is dreading this game that's for sure.

Pyro19 · Oct 21, 2014

we'll lose but by a small margin.
2-1 to chelsea i think. TBF I'm more worried about City , they're Ruthless when attacking. Mourinho doesn't like attacking against the big teams that much.

Mali_Zeus · Oct 21, 2014

MJJ said:
5-0 is a cricket score?

I dont know, I dont follow cricket, one poster said he expects a cricket score whatever that is.

Jammydodger7 · Oct 21, 2014

We just gotta go out and play like we have nothing to lose! nobody expects us to pick up anything....hopefully di Maria will be fit

Kevin irl · Oct 21, 2014

4-1 to chelsea, we literally have no defence.

Neil67 · Oct 21, 2014

Tight game but I think we'll keep a clean sheet and get a 1 0 win!

VanGaalEra · Oct 21, 2014

We're due a game with some lack, in fact we're due about 2/3 games with some luck.

Lets hope one of them is this Sunday.

Cassidy · Oct 21, 2014

Chelsea will come and park the bus and be solid and look to play on the counter, keeping a leash on Hazard is going to be the key.
It not going to be a battering, Mou isn't going to come to OT and be gung ho

Sassy Colin · Oct 21, 2014

Well I must say I like the positivity in this thread.

Chuckazulu · Oct 21, 2014

I'm pretty hopeful. I feel like this game is made for the 3-5-2 formation. I can't wait to finally meet a top side

vibe · Oct 21, 2014

This is why I was firmly against people who wanted newbies gone from the matchday forum. Their optimism really is something else.

Insanity · Oct 21, 2014

Mali_Zeus said:
I will come up with decent retort after you calm down a bit.

Melodramatic? That you are sir.
Or madame by the look of your posts?

Well, I really can't compete with the manliness of the "My God" replies.

Sir, would be fine.

I should realize that sarcasm isn't for everyone. :yawn:

Anyway, let's not make it a mud-slinging contenst.

This is what I have:

Swansea City (H) – 2-1 Loss – A team destined to finish in the bottom half of the table.
Sunderland (A) – 1-1 Draw – A team got thumped 8-0 by S'ton and will flirt with relegation for the the rest of the season.
MK Dons (COC) – 4 – 1 Loss – MK Dons! MK freaking Dons! Kills chances of youngsters getting some useful minutes with the first team.
Burnley (A) – 0-0 draw – Dour performance against a team that'll finish in the bottom three.
QPR (H) – 4-0 Win. It's QPR. Our best performance this season. QPR most likely will finish in the bottom three.
Leicester City (A) – 5-3 loss – Are we Spurs in disguise? LC destined to finish b/w 15-20.
West Ham (H) – 2-1 Win – Scrapped a win. Complete meltdown from 60 minutes on.
Everton (H) – 2-1 Win – Scrapped a win against a decent oppositon. Complete meltdown from 60 minutes on. Still, one step forward.
West Brom (A) – 2-2 Draw – Two step backwards.

12 points from 8 games against mediocre opposition. 6 of them are guaranteed to finish in the bottom half of the table. I am being generous with the other two.
Still to win away from home.
Three of the next four are against the 1st, 3rd and 4th placed teams from last season. 2 of them away.
We could have as low of 15 points from 12 games.
The points total for the teams that finished 4th in the last 5 seasons is as follows: 79, 73, 69, 68, 70. Which averaged is 71.8, or 72 points.
Which means we may have to secure 57 points from the 26 games left, which is 2.19 points per games. Last seasons champions averaged 2.26/games.

I want to be the most positive person on the planet, but the numbers aren't allowing me to be. I would be scared us playing Southampton at the moment, forget City or Chelsea.

The part you quoted in my previous post; tell me what did I say that was objectionable or OTT?

In what world was that our best performance of the season?
Wouldn't we have criticized Moyes if he called that “our best performance of the season”
Did Rojo and Jones not indulge in stupid hoofing, giving the ball away constantly?
Didn't both of them gave terrible defensive performances? Rojo had problem dealing with every long ball that came his way.
Forgive me for not taking shine to Van Gaal's constant use of the word “philosophy”. I need to see that “philosophy” on the pitch, mere words don't mean anything. In life, or in football, I am generally not impressed with psuedo intelectual bullcrap.

Mali_Zeus · Oct 21, 2014

Insanity said:
Well, I really can't compete with the manliness of the "My God" replies. Sir, would be fine.

I should realize that sarcasm isn't for everyone. Anyway, let's not make it a mud-slinging contenst.

This is what I have:

Swansea City (H) – 2-1 Loss – A team destined to finish in the bottom half of the table.
Sunderland (A) – 1-1 Draw – A team got thumped 8-0 by S'ton and will flirt with relegation for the the rest of the season.
MK Dons (COC) – 4 – 1 Loss – MK Dons! MK freaking Dons! Kills chances of youngsters getting some useful minutes with the first team.
Burnley (A) – 0-0 draw – Dour performance against a team that'll finish in the bottom three.
QPR (H) – 4-0 Win. It's QPR. Our best performance this season. QPR most likely will finish in the bottom three.
Leicester City (A) – 5-3 loss – Are we Spurs in disguise? LC destined to finish b/w 15-20.
West Ham (H) – 2-1 Win – Scrapped a win. Complete meltdown from 60 minutes on.
Everton (H) – 2-1 Win – Scrapped a win against a decent oppositon. Complete meltdown from 60 minutes on. Still, one step forward.
West Brom (A) – 2-2 Draw – Two step backwards.

12 points from 8 games against mediocre opposition. 6 of them are guaranteed to finish in the bottom half of the table. I am being generous with the other two.

Still to win away from home.

Three of the next four are against the 1st, 3rd and 4th placed teams from last season. 2 of them away.

We could have as low of 15 points from 12 games.

The points total for the teams that finished 4th in the last 5 seasons is as follows: 79, 73, 69, 68, 70. Which averaged is 71.8, or 72 points.

Which means we may have to secure 57 points from the 26 games left, which is 2.19 points per games. Last seasons champions averaged 2.26/games.

I want to be the most positive person on the planet, but the numbers aren't allowing me to be. I would be scared us playing Southampton at the moment, forget City or Chelsea.

The part you quoted in my previous post; tell me what did I say that was objectionable or OTT?

In what world was that our best performance of the season?

Wouldn't we have criticized Moyes if he called that “our best performance of the season”

Did Rojo and Jones not indulge in stupid hoofing, giving the ball away constantly?

Didn't both of them gave terrible defensive performances? Rojo had problem dealing with every long ball that came his way.

Forgive me for not taking shine to Van Gaal's constant use of the word “philosophy”. I need to see that “philosophy” on the pitch, mere words don't mean anything. In life, or in football, I am generally not impressed with psuedo intelectual bullcrap.

YOu take everything managers say for granted? Every manager says a lot of stuff, some of it is pointless or just funny, some of it is smart, some of it is bollocks. It doesnt matter if he said that, what matters is if he saw our mistakes and will adress them.

Maybe I saw a different game but Rojo didnt have a problem dealing with every long ball, he had a slow start but after that he had a good game. Both of them didnt gave terrible defensive performances. Its an exaggeration and people do that a lot of time here it seems.

You already gave up on LVG so I think this conversation doesnt make any sense anyway.

What was OTT ? Number of !!!!! In your post.

Rafabio · Oct 21, 2014

Pyro19 said:
we'll lose but by a small margin.
2-1 to chelsea i think. TBF I'm more worried about City , they're Ruthless when attacking. Mourinho doesn't like attacking against the big teams that much.

That's the problem, we're not considered a big team in terms of football prowress now. Big signings, big spending, big stadium, big fan base but not a big team ATM.

Insanity · Oct 21, 2014

Mali_Zeus said:
YOu take everything managers say for granted? Every manager says a lot of stuff, some of it is pointless or just funny, some of it is smart, some of it is bollocks. It doesnt matter if he said that, what matters is if he saw our mistakes and will adress them.

Maybe I saw a different game but Rojo didnt have a problem dealing with every long ball, he had a slow start but after that he had a good game. Both of them didnt gave terrible defensive performances. Its an exaggeration and people do that a lot of time here it seems.

You already gave up on LVG so I think this conversation doesnt make any sense anyway.

What was OTT ? Number of !!!!! In your post.

He was being funny when he described that as "our best performance of the season so far"? May be I don't get sarcasm either.

Rojo has trouble dealing with the long ball. Got himself in a soup a couple of times last night, only to get lucky deflections. In the previous games also I have noticed that he has a tendency to leave the ball short in dangerous areas. His hoofing has been as bad as Rio's was in the last couple of seasons.

I said I have not been impressed with LvG so far. I don't know what does "given up on him means". I am here to comment on things as I see it. I don't think you were ever interested in having a conversation, which was pretty evident from your, "My God" reply.

Edit: The "!!!!" were a sarcastic reply to your inane post.

Bwuk · Oct 21, 2014

Need to get AdM central again. He's wasted out wide. Revert back to the diamond. AdM at the tip in a sort of free role.

Dave
Rafael Whoever Rojo Shaw
Carrick
Herrera Blind
Di Maria
Falcao van Persie

villain · Oct 21, 2014

How long is Costa expected to be out for?

Mali_Zeus · Oct 21, 2014

Insanity said:
He was being funny when he described that as "our best performance of the season so far"? May be I don't get sarcasm either.

Rojo has trouble dealing with the long ball. Got himself in a soup a couple of times last night, only to get lucky deflections. In the previous games also I have noticed that he has a tendency to leave the ball short in dangerous areas. His hoofing has been as bad as Rio's was in the last couple of seasons.

I said I have not been impressed with LvG so far. I don't know what does "given up on him means". I am here to comment on things as I see it. I don't think you were ever interested in having a conversation, which was pretty evident from your, "My God" reply.

Edit: The "!!!!" were a sarcastic reply to your inane post.

inane post?

Yeah whatever. Have a nice day. Cheers.

Hemil · Oct 21, 2014

vi1lain said:
How long is Costa expected to be out for?

3 days

Ole Gunner Scholes · Oct 21, 2014

Mata would be muscled out of the game against Chelsea (in his current form), play Lord Fellaini as a No. 10 to add the muscle & aerial threat in front of Herrara, Blind & Di Maria. The role he played for Everton successfully. Then there is a choice between Carrick/RVP depending if we want to play with 2 strikers or Falcao solo upfront.

Keep calm & trust in the Lord (Fellaini) :nervous:

Lowkey · Oct 21, 2014

in Fellaini we trust

poisson · Oct 21, 2014

Insanity said:
I want to be the most positive person on the planet, but the numbers aren't allowing me to be. I would be scared us playing Southampton at the moment, forget City or Chelsea.

The part you quoted in my previous post; tell me what did I say that was objectionable or OTT?

That sentence encompasses everything!! I echo your sentiments entirely.
We are in a very very worrying position right now, the points total accumulated against the mediocre teams we've played has been nothing but disgraceful. Van Gaal's performances have been questionable, from the dodgy 3-4-3 formation, to shit substitutions, to the tactics yesterday - what kind of 'philosophy' does he want because the players sure as hell don't seem to be getting it.

People harping on about improvements in our play, well yes, that's what 150 million worth of talent will do, there's nothing genius about buying the likes of di maria, falcao and herrera then seeing your team play slightly better attacking football.

I can't even believe people are talking about getting something from Chelsea and City games - we have no bloody chance!!! We're so easy to play against, Mourinho will simply nullify our main attacking threats and hit us on the counter. City will bombard us with their attacking play, Aguero will have a field day against our defence.

Overall not happy with Van gaal so far. 3 months in - 3/10 for his performance.

Paul_Scholes18 · Oct 21, 2014

We know how Chelsea will play. Low defense and on the counter. We need to stand up to their midfield and take out Fabregas ability to pass in there then hit them on the break with Falcao and Di Maria ourselfes. We have no space for slow players like Persie against better teams now. We need to have hard working forwards and midfielders that can press and also break. Valencia can do a job for that in the big games. Maybe also Jones in midfield for his work rate and also him not being the best in terms of calmness as central defender which we will need against Chelsea.

Rafael, Shaw are good going forward, but nedd protection. I think I might actually put Young on the left too for his work rate. Then have Di maria as 10 behind Falcao and Carrick, Jones behind them.

Think this lineup could work really well against them and maybe also suprise them. If Herrera fully fit he should probably be ahead of Young, but since he is doubtful I am not sure. Di Maria we must have I think for good chance here.

De Gea, Rafael, Smalling, Rojo, Shaw, Valencia, Carrick, Jones, Di Maria, Young, Falcao.

Central defense is still risk and maybe Mcnair would actually do better than Smalling although it being a big game. I like Blind, but I think Chelsea will bully him if he plays.

Ole Gunner Scholes · Oct 21, 2014

Lowkey said:
in Fellaini we trust

We all do, but don't take the name of the Lord (Fellaini) in vain

Paul_Scholes18 · Oct 21, 2014

poisson said:
That sentence encompasses everything!! I echo your sentiments entirely.
We are in a very very worrying position right now, the points total accumulated against the mediocre teams we've played has been nothing but disgraceful. Van Gaal's performances have been questionable, from the dodgy 3-4-3 formation, to shit substitutions, to the tactics yesterday - what kind of 'philosophy' does he want because the players sure as hell don't seem to be getting it.

People harping on about improvements in our play, well yes, that's what 150 million worth of talent will do, there's nothing genius about buying the likes of di maria, falcao and herrera then seeing your team play slightly better attacking football.

I can't even believe people are talking about getting something from Chelsea and City games - we have no bloody chance!!! We're so easy to play against, Mourinho will simply nullify our main attacking threats and hit us on the counter. City will bombard us with their attacking play, Aguero will have a field day against our defence.

Overall not happy with Van gaal so far. 3 months in - 3/10 for his performance.

I think we should not underestimate physiology though. We have struggled to dominate game and with the high expectation on us. Now we are underdogs for two games and that might help us actually. The key though is Van Gaal have to get balance and tactics right. If we are too slow and open against the best teams they will eat us. Be solid and get in with good spirit and work rate like the small team has done against us and we will have a chance if the likes of Di Maria and Falcao can have a good day and be lethal. He need to drop Mata and Persie though. Having two players that barely work defensively will never work in the big games.

gonzy · Oct 21, 2014

Chelsea have been so good this season, their defense is very solid, I mean, their whole set up is very solid.

I've watched not more than three or maybe fourth of their previous games under jose,p and in those matches they looked very well organized and sensible going forward as well as in defense and seem like a bunch who buys into Jose's philosophy, be it to park the bus, control games or go toe to toe with the opposition, they are just replicating everything Mourinho might be feeding them lol, with our ever worrying defense and the lack of balance in our team I'm really struggling to come up with a system/line-up half capable of beating this well drilled Cheski side our best bet is hoping for the injured Costa to not recover in time because I don't see evans/smalling/jones being able to stop him. It's by then we can start praying for a draw or a fluke win.

poisson · Oct 21, 2014

Paul_Scholes18 said:
I think we should not underestimate physiology though. We have struggled to dominate game and with the high expectation on us. Now we are underdogs for two games and that might help us actually. The key though is Van Gaal have to get balance and tactics right. If we are too slow and open against the best teams they will eat us. Be solid and get in with good spirit and work rate like the small team has done against us and we will have a chance if the likes of Di Maria and Falcao can have a good day and be lethal. He need to drop Mata and Persie though. Having two players that barely work defensively will never work in the big games.

But see there's the problem - Chelsea will keep out the likes of di maria and falcao. You just know Mourinho will have a plan to stop them. Then what from our point of view? Who's going to provide the creative spark?
Maybe yesterday's result is clouding my judgement but at the moment, I just don't see us getting anything

whyalwaysjimbo · Oct 21, 2014

This reminds me of the Bayern tie. People talking about record Champions League scores and that it will be 6-0 at half time and in the end we lose narrowly having led in the tie twice.

Our defence-Rafael, Jones, Rojo, Shaw, while a little shaky (remember last night was the first time Jones and Rojo played together) but to say it's rubbish is ridiculous. Jones has bags of potential, Rojo is an Argentina international, Rafael has been our right back for years and won titles, and Shaw was possibly the league's best left back last season.

If Aston Villa were playing at home to Chelsea you wouldn't expect them to get thrashed, so Manchester United should not be expected to be. If we lose I doubt it'd be more than 2-0.

Striker10 · Oct 21, 2014

We need to play with intelligence. The defenders need to take some responsibility as does Blind. When you're going through an unlucky phase, don't force it. Hopefully the crowd are up for it and Di Maria is ok.

LVG is right in that there is no common sense in this team. We need Jones to be a leader and personally i'm not seeing it. When a ball is high in the air and you're unchallenged, have some fecking composure to bring it down or at least get some bearings. We need some composure and I think we're carrying one or two at a time we cannot afford too. I'm going 1-0 United

BootsyCollins · Oct 21, 2014

Well, this is going to be tough issent it?
If we dont sort out our defence we will get spanked, I am forever optimistic when it comes to United, but Chelsea have been so solid this season i find it difficult to see us getting anything from this match.

De Gea needs be in superman mode for startes, because there is no doubt they are going to get chances.
Rafael, Jones, Rojo and Shaw also needs to up their game. We cant let them get chances like the one WBA scored their second against us.
So no sleeping in defence when we could easily set a player offside. They need to work like a unit.

Blind was good the last match, but needs to be even better this one. There will be a huge responsibility on his shoulders this match if his playing as our most defencive CM.

I also want Di Maria back in midfield alongside Hererra, but i am not sure who i want to play behind the two strikers. Mata was awfull last night and the same was Januzaj.
Who are the other options? Maybe Mata will play the game of his life since its against Chelsea? Or maybe Fellaini will play there?

Falcao and RVP on top.
Two strikes are risky but we need to trust our defence. I know its hard in these times, but if we lay down, and "park the bus" we will get smashed even more.
Attack is our best option right now and hope we outscore them.

So for me its :
---------------De Gea------------
Rafael---Jones------Rojo----Shaw
---------------Blind--------------
-------Hererra-----Di Maria------
--------------Mata----------------
-----Falcao---------Van Persie---

Walters_19_MuFc · Oct 21, 2014

I doubt Van Gaal would have changed his system yesterday for the fun of it. As Neville pointed out yesterday, I think the formation we played yesterday was some sort of dress rehearsal for the Chelsea game on Sunday. Therefore, I think we'll play with a 4-1-4-1 formation. Might see something like:

De Gea
Rafael - Jones - Rojo - Shaw
Blind
Valencia - Herrera - Fellaini - Di Maria
Van Persie

After Van Gaal talking about having physical balance in the side, I doubt we'll see Mata, Herrera and Blind as it could prove to be too lightweight. I think the addition of Fellaini will give us that height and strength we've maybe lacked in the last few games. The energy will come from Herrera and Blind.

redsunited · Oct 21, 2014

Calm down guys. Our team is not as bad as you lot make it out to be because of certain results.

Azpilicueta being suspended is good for us, I believe defensively he is the best full back in the league by some distance, especially his pressing. He is Chelsea's best ball winner and tackler without fouling a lot. We have to target Terry. He is getting a free ride without playing against any top striker. We have what the other teams which played Chelsea so far this season doesnt have. RVP and especially Falcao can give him a run for the money. Off the ball movement of Falcao will get Terry into trouble. I see City as more of a threat than Chelsea who have weaknesses.

Dont forget we are playing at home, playing at Stamford Bridge would be a whole different game. Chelsea without doubt will stop us playing our game by pressing and overloading midfielders and pushing Fabregas up the pitch. Mata will find it difficult as the defensive midfielders of Chelsea will get him out of the game. Its better to play a midfield three and give ADM(hopefully he is not injured) a free role in front of it instead of playing Mata.
Bringing on Fellaini and playing crosses and long balls is a good move against West Brom, as West Brom was weak aerially. The same cannot be said about Chelsea. They are infact one of the strongest team aerially both offensively and defensively. Fellaini can come in later to help defending set pieces. As a starter its better to use Valencia(if he is available back from injury) as a ball winner in right side of midfield 3 same as Everton match to snuff out their left sided attack if Chelsea is playing Hazard. If Valencia is not available Herrera should play there. Blind should play on the left of midfield 3 as Shaw needs protection and Carrick can play on the front of the central defenders and help them out.

My preferred team would be

-------------De Gea------------
Rafael - Jones - Rojo - Shaw
--Valencia - Carrick - Blind--
-----Di Maria (Free role)----
-----Falcao-----Van Persie----

Sensei · Oct 21, 2014

We will win this but persie must not start

whyalwaysjimbo said:
This reminds me of the Bayern tie. People talking about record Champions League scores and that it will be 6-0 at half time and in the end we lose narrowly having led in the tie twice.

Our defence-Rafael, Jones, Rojo, Shaw, while a little shaky (remember last night was the first time Jones and Rojo played together) but to say it's rubbish is ridiculous. Jones has bags of potential, Rojo is an Argentina international, Rafael has been our right back for years and won titles, and Shaw was possibly the league's best left back last season.

If Aston Villa were playing at home to Chelsea you wouldn't expect them to get thrashed, so Manchester United should not be expected to be. If we lose I doubt it'd be more than 2-0.

Exactly, if they manage a goal, they will sit back for the remaining minutes. That's one negative team away from home....

Sensei · Oct 21, 2014

poisson said:
But see there's the problem - Chelsea will keep out the likes of di maria and falcao. You just know Mourinho will have a plan to stop them. Then what from our point of view? Who's going to provide the creative spark?
Maybe yesterday's result is clouding my judgement but at the moment, I just don't see us getting anything

That's where u love fergie as he always had a surprise element in such games...giggs, js park etc to destroy the opposition plan.

Thugmann · Oct 21, 2014

It's not looking good for us, guys. With some luck maybe the damage won't be too severe and we'll just lose 2-1.

NessunDorma · Oct 21, 2014

I just find it very hard not to be optimistic when it comes to United. Mainly because i've spent the last 20 years watching us do nothing but win.

So i'm going to predict a United victory here as well. Perhaps along the lines of this game:

And maybe we'll have another unlikely hero.

Fairplay · Oct 21, 2014

Even after the disaster last night, i would still put Jones in with either Evans or Smalling in centre, and move Rojo to the left. That back four is definitely capable of holding off Chelsea from scoring, if one of them takes up lead and controls the shape throughout the match.

And please, please play the diamond. But if Herrera is not available, don't put Fellaini in there despite that performance. Valencia unfortunately, is our only choice in that position.

BlueCelery · Oct 21, 2014

Invictus said:
Because he might be unfit.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...y-could-rule-striker-out-for-three-weeks.html

Hazard....

kolli · Oct 21, 2014

I'd go with
-------------De Gea------------
Rafael - Jones - Rojo - Shaw
--Valencia - Blind - Herrera--
-----Di Maria-------Januzaj----
--------------Falcao---------

Smalling for Jones if fit.
Tell Di Maria and Januzaj to do whatever they want to do when we've got the ball.
Azpilicueta is missing and Filipe Luis didn't play too much for Chelsea so I'd have a go at him.
Falcao is able to tear Terry and Cahill a new one.
Our defenders are strong enough to play against Diego Costa (at least physically), so if they concentrate I have slight hopes that they'll keep
him quite for most of the game.

Valencia, Herrera, di Maria and Falcao can be very good at pressing the opposition, so I'd tell Januzaj to move back when Chelsea has the ball
just to have an extra body (even if it's a fairly small and lightweight one) there and to have a go down the wing as soon as we win the ball.

I guess RVP will play instead of Januzaj and Mata will play instead of Valencia, but we'll beat them anyway. Got a very good feeling about this.

Sensei · Oct 21, 2014

Van gaal is yet to be tested against the top 4 sides (chelks, lilpool, arsene and city). Sure he's a manager for the biggest games, not quite figured out how to deal with the lesser to average teams though...
Someone alluded 352 and I think he just might revert to that now that we are back to full strength with adm possibly missing out:

Smalling Jones rojo
Rafa Blind Carrick Shaw
Herrera (if fit)/Mata
Rvp Falcao

Balanced and can win

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