Manchester United 1:2 Manchester City

ManRed · Aug 29, 2016

We need to use our physicality and height to advantage. They are not the tallest bunch and we if we can keep it tight at the back then we should be fine. Not too worried by City only player I can see hurting us is De Bruyne (if elbow is rightly suspended). Silva/Nolito and Sterling can be contained.

As some have already said the first 15 minutes will be very important for us to contain them and as game progresses they seem to tire out.

Devil may care · Aug 29, 2016

I think the key areas in Jose's selection for this match are the 2 wide forward roles and the DM. Guardiola's use of Zabaleta and Clichy as almost extra CM's needs shutting down by our wide players, we can't let Shaw and Valencia get outnumbered.

With that in mind I hope Lingard is ready for this game, he was excellent in the last derby and his workrate on the right would be very useful. I'd also start Rashford on the left as he presses hard and is a huge threat in behind which will force Zabaleta back, plus two local lads in the team for a derby has it's benefits IMO. Of course we know Rooney will play and I think he'll get the left side job.

Silva pulls the strings for City and I think he's a mismatch with Fellaini as the mop will struggle with getting close to him without giving foul after foul away as Silva is a skillful and smart player. Part of me thinks Blind there would make sense and put Smalling in with Bailly, but breaking up a back 4 that is playing well is never a great thing, it's just I worry that Herrera is a bit rash so while he's not impressed much in a United shirt I'd start Schneiderlin.

pacifictheme · Aug 29, 2016

Sam M said:
Herrera is underrated.

Think we may win against City. They can't defend and we play better.

Hope I'm right.

Herrera fanboy alert.

sullydnl · Aug 29, 2016

I think we're better defensively than City right now. With both teams still developing in attack and (hopefully) Aguero to be banned, we should be favourites here.

Kag · Aug 29, 2016

nokillingmoths said:
Herrera fanboy alert.

Your Herrera complex is strange. You're wandering about into lots of threads (Fellaini's more recently) making pointless, shitty remarks about him that have nothing to do with the thread.

Oneunited26 · Aug 29, 2016

Devil may care said:
I think the key areas in Jose's selection for this match are the 2 wide forward roles and the DM. Guardiola's use of Zabaleta and Clichy as almost extra CM's needs shutting down by our wide players, we can't let Shaw and Valencia get outnumbered.

With that in mind I hope Lingard is ready for this game, he was excellent in the last derby and his workrate on the right would be very useful. I'd also start Rashford on the left as he presses hard and is a huge threat in behind which will force Zabaleta back, plus two local lads in the team for a derby has it's benefits IMO. Of course we know Rooney will play and I think he'll get the left side job.

Silva pulls the strings for City and I think he's a mismatch with Fellaini as the mop will struggle with getting close to him without giving foul after foul away as Silva is a skillful and smart player. Part of me thinks Blind there would make sense and put Smalling in with Bailly, but breaking up a back 4 that is playing well is never a great thing, it's just I worry that Herrera is a bit rash so while he's not impressed much in a United shirt I'd start Schneiderlin.

Rashford for this game is a classic case of Ace in the hole for Jose Mourinho, but Mourinho loves playing the long term game in 90 mins with teams especially the big teams he aint stupid. His teams are like a fine well oiled machine of rocky, they don't look to win in 60 mins, they look to wear sides down over a 90 minute span and 80th to 90th is where Mourinho finds sides weak points, and that for me is where Mourinho will use rashford has a sub. City will have got to grips with united, to then throw on rashford fresh could work to Mourinho's advantage, and he will want to take full advantage of tiredness with his speed in the last 90 plus mins. I do hope fellaini is fit for the derby, 2 weeks is a long time in football, but there is a case for a tactical switch from 4231 to 433, so Pogba is not out numbered doing everything, when Jose wants his team tactically disciplined and not split open by city's passing game

3KDré · Aug 29, 2016

They key to this game is Pogba. If he plays well he can power through their measly defence. They've too few defensive players for us not to exploit that. However we play, I fully expect Mourinho to be right. He's done it before.

Rajeev · Aug 29, 2016

City will be there for the taking with their weak defense and hopefully no Aguero in the team. The only one that that could potentially cause us any trouble is De Bruyne. This is early in the season but we should go for a win and also build up a huge atmosphere in OT. I hope Mourinho plays something like this

DDG

Valencia Bailly Blind Shaw

Schneiderlin Pogba

Mkhitaryan Rooney Martial

Ibra

pacifictheme · Aug 29, 2016

Kag said:
Your Herrera complex is strange. You're wandering about into lots of threads (Fellaini's more recently) making pointless, shitty remarks about him that have nothing to do with the thread.

Ha. Forgot about that. Yeah i just think it feels people on here think hes fantastic. I think hes not very good at football. Not that strange. Your nokillingmoths complex seems a little stranger to me. I don't recognise your username, but you know my posting history better than i do.

I take it you have no other examples to hand. I can only think of the fellaini one myself. In this topic, for example, my first post was agreeing with someone saying he shouldn't play, in a matchday thread.

Back on topic, i'd start with;

DDG
Shaw
Bailly
Blind
Valencia
Pogba
Schneiderlin (unless fellaini is fit)
Miki
Mata
Rooney
Ibra

Martial looks a bit out of sorts and it looks to me like miki can provide some of the dynamic running martial did last season. As can pogba. Not sure if his off field issues are affecting him, but martial hasn't gotten going yet.

Kag · Aug 29, 2016

nokillingmoths said:
Ha. Forgot about that. Yeah i just think it feels people on here think hes fantastic. I think hes not very good at football. Not that strange. Your nokillingmoths complex seems a little stranger to me. I don't recognise your username, but you know my posting history better than i do.

I take it you have no other examples to hand. I can only think of the fellaini one myself. In this topic, for example, my first post was agreeing with someone saying he shouldn't play, in a matchday thread.

Back on topic, i'd start with;

DDG
Shaw
Bailly
Blind
Valencia
Pogba
Schneiderlin (unless fellaini is fit)
Miki
Mata
Rooney
Ibra

Martial looks a bit out of sorts and it looks to me like miki can provide some of the dynamic running martial did last season. As can pogba. Not sure if his off field issues are affecting him, but martial hasn't gotten going yet.

Some people on here think Herrera is a good player. That isn't strange either. However, not many people, if any at all, enter random threads to tell everybody how good they think he is. They save that for his thread.

Sam M · Aug 29, 2016

nokillingmoths said:
Herrera fanboy alert.

I know a bit of ol' Herrera bashing is your niche thing on here - as you have you nothing else to contribute, so I don't really expect you to get this football lark.

Carry on.

Gasolin · Aug 29, 2016

For me, the starting line up will not change a bit, bar Fellaini who's injured. Martial will be given 2 weeks to be fit again, and Mata will have for instructions to move in a smart way so that we can tire City, if we manage to get the ball somehow.

Schneiderlin would have been the natural replacement for Fellaini, but I wonder if Jose will try a technical change and use Herrera along with Pogba, to try to control a bit more the midfield. Granted Herrera is not a physical beast but he had enough football intelligence to bother City's attacking phases with slight deflections or positioning. And his skills on the ball are quite good.

Blind will have a critical role again, he will need to position Valencia and Shaw well so that Nolita or Silva or the City's full backs cannot go behind them to pass the ball at the penalty point. Bailly should be able to compensate most positioning issues with his speed and physicality.

Mkhi and Rashford or Lingard would only come in if Jose believes City's legs are heavier and would have harder time to cope with them. Let's be clear however that City has great chances to have the ball and the possession so that factor might not play as well as Jose would have hoped, at least in this game.

pacifictheme · Aug 29, 2016

Sam M said:
I know a bit of ol' Herrera bashing is your niche thing on here - as you have you nothing else to contribute, so I don't really expect you to get this football lark.

Carry on.

Where as rooney bashing is everyone elses i guess.

Red Dreams · Aug 29, 2016

I put in Carrick for Fellani.

Most may say Morgan. Herrera would be too much of an attacking option.

Bwuk · Aug 29, 2016

Key is getting the ball in the box to Zlatan. Stones and Otamendi won't be able to deal with his height.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Mkhi on the right, Rooney left and a three man midfield for this. Hope I'm wrong but think we will play to frustrate City for 65 mins then bring on Rashford/Martial to run at them on the break.

Red Dreams · Aug 29, 2016

Mourinho will not want to give their midfield any time.

Domination is his word.

Carrick/Morgan/Pogba

Gentleman Jim · Aug 29, 2016

LOL at all the remarks about City's rubbish defence.
5 games this season have yielded 3 goals, 1 a soft penalty and WHU had but 1 serious chance yesterday (which they took).
Last year the defence was exposed by little pressing by forwards and midfielders but that has changed greatly this season. Add a hugely impressive start from Stones and it won't be easy to get at us.

Peyroteo · Aug 29, 2016

People putting Rooney on the left... that won't happen for sure.

Gentleman Jim said:
LOL at all the remarks about City's rubbish defence.
5 games this season have yielded 3 goals, 1 a soft penalty and WHU had but 1 serious chance yesterday (which they took).
Last year the defence was exposed by little pressing by forwards and midfielders but that has changed greatly this season. Add a hugely impressive start from Stones and it won't be easy to get at us.

Everytime the ball is close to your area it seems like a goal is coming. The problem West Ham had was getting to your area. Before you scored vs Stoke, they were causing plenty of problems too, but some bad decision making kept them out. I think United will score for sure. The result will depend if they can close you out or not.

Gentleman Jim · Aug 29, 2016

Peyroteo said:
People putting Rooney on the left... that won't happen for sure.

Everytime the ball is close to your area it seems like a goal is coming. The problem West Ham had was getting to your area. Before you scored vs Stoke, they were causing plenty of problems too, but some bad decision making kept them out. I think United will score for sure. The result will depend if they can close you out or not.

It'll be a fascinating game that's for sure.

Android1974 · Aug 29, 2016

Bwuk said:
Key is getting the ball in the box to Zlatan. Stones and Otamendi won't be able to deal with his height.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Mkhi on the right, Rooney left and a three man midfield for this. Hope I'm wrong but think we will play to frustrate City for 65 mins then bring on Rashford/Martial to run at them on the break.

It might just pay off, although it could be very frustrating to watch. My only doubt is, the game is at Old Trafford, otherwise, if it was at the Etihad, that would surely be the plan. Mourinho might be a bit embarrassed to be so pragmatic in his first big game here (remember his first game at Camp Nou with Real Madrid).

Ali Dia · Aug 30, 2016

Is it wrong to say I'd take a draw at this early stage in the season?

I'd obviously rather we won and I think we can but a draw would be a decent result too.

Manchester Dan · Aug 30, 2016

Ali Dia said:
Is it wrong to say I'd take a draw at this early stage in the season?

I'd obviously rather we won and I think we can but a draw would be a decent result too.

I think a draw away from home has to be a better result for City at this stage. The pressure feels like it's on United to win this one, which is probably why I feel quite relaxed about the derby. It's always nice to get the away game out of the way early doors before the business side of the season kicks in.

Ali Dia · Aug 30, 2016

I think united will win but a draw may not be a bad result in hindsight. First tough fixture of the season for United.

Macern · Aug 30, 2016

I'm too nervous for this game

MyOnlySolskjaer · Aug 30, 2016

Devil may care said:
I think the key areas in Jose's selection for this match are the 2 wide forward roles and the DM. Guardiola's use of Zabaleta and Clichy as almost extra CM's needs shutting down by our wide players, we can't let Shaw and Valencia get outnumbered.

With that in mind I hope Lingard is ready for this game, he was excellent in the last derby and his workrate on the right would be very useful. I'd also start Rashford on the left as he presses hard and is a huge threat in behind which will force Zabaleta back, plus two local lads in the team for a derby has it's benefits IMO. Of course we know Rooney will play and I think he'll get the left side job.

Silva pulls the strings for City and I think he's a mismatch with Fellaini as the mop will struggle with getting close to him without giving foul after foul away as Silva is a skillful and smart player. Part of me thinks Blind there would make sense and put Smalling in with Bailly, but breaking up a back 4 that is playing well is never a great thing, it's just I worry that Herrera is a bit rash so while he's not impressed much in a United shirt I'd start Schneiderlin.

Would love to see Rashford and Lingard starting but I can see your lineup happening. FWIW, Rooney's best moments have been coming from wide positions and this will allow us to play Mkhitaryan centrally but even then I'm not sure if we should drop Martial. Tough call whatever the outcome is but surely Mkhitaryan at least is starting.

quethenoo · Aug 30, 2016

I wonder if Jose will be tempted to beef up the midfield and bring in another cm, pushing Rooney out wide or something. Not that I advocate playing Rooney wide but can't see him not playing.

Uncle Bunkle · Aug 30, 2016

quethenoo said:
I wonder if Jose will be tempted to beef up the midfield and bring in another cm, pushing Rooney out wide or something. Not that I advocate playing Rooney wide but can't see him not playing.

No chance that will happen man. It'll be a CB or a RB / or both, if we're gonna bring anyone in. Would have loved to see Matuidi here though. He was one of my favourite players at the Euro's. Outstanding he was.

I've no idea how long Jose will still keep fielding Rooney when we have Marcus to play in his position, as a roaming forward. Jose likes Rooney, but he must be frustrated with his play though.

But Rooney pretty much won the game for us on Saturday, so we should lay off him for now & give him some kudos for that.

Then we have the Martial problem too. If we drop him - it could have an even worse impact to his already below-par game at the moment.

Off-field problems & missing his kids would impact on anyone. He really looks depressed & that's pretty sad to see. Poor fella.

He needs to use football as his escapism & just switch off; but maybe that's easier said than done though.

Jose will help him out & so will the players too!

Maradona10 · Aug 30, 2016

Think Aguero is out for them, The refree has admitted he dint see the elbow so he shoulf not play.
I think this will mean either they shift to a false nine or play sterling top. Will be very interesting to see how tactically both managers play.
Mourinho may well spring up his own surprise . We may see mkhi and rashford starting with roomey on the bench or may even see a 2 dm midfield in fellaini and schniderlin with pogba playing 10. Very very interesting.
I think they will get a shoddy penalty with sterling diving or something like that.

VP89 · Aug 30, 2016

Maradona10 said:
Think Aguero is out for them, The refree has admitted he dint see the elbow so he shoulf not play.

Great - is there a link re. the ref bit?

How is Fellaini's back injury? Hopefully he can make the match. Shaw/Valencia will have need to have a big game - I feel success will depend on the discipline of our fullbacks. Reckon Mkhitaryan should also start.

Click to expand...

quethenoo · Aug 30, 2016

Uncle Bunkle said:
No chance that will happen man. It'll be a CB or a RB / or both, if we're gonna bring anyone in. Would have loved to see Matuidi here though. He was one of my favourite players at the Euro's. Outstanding he was.

I've no idea how long Jose will still keep fielding Rooney when we have Marcus to play in his position, as a roaming forward. Jose likes Rooney, but he must be frustrated with his play though.

But Rooney pretty much won the game for us on Saturday, so we should lay off him for now & give him some kudos for that.

Then we have the Martial problem too. If we drop him - it could have an even worse impact to his already below-par game at the moment.

Off-field problems & missing his kids would impact on anyone. He really looks depressed & that's pretty sad to see. Poor fella.

He needs to use football as his escapism & just switch off; but maybe that's easier said than done though.

Jose will help him out & so will the players too!

No I meant for the game against City, as in Herrera, Morgan or Carrick! And again not rooney bashing, just wouldn't be a fan of his starting out wide if we switched to a more 4-3-3 type affair.

Uncle Bunkle · Aug 30, 2016

quethenoo said:
No I meant for the game against City, as in Herrera, Morgan or Carrick! And again not rooney bashing, just wouldn't be a fan of his starting out wide if we switched to a more 4-3-3 type affair.

Oh right, sorry mate. I thought you meant a transfer in. My bad..

I'd play Carrick in a 4-3-3 with Fellaini & allow Pogba to play more offensively - dropping Rooney & replacing him with Micki; but we all know that's not gonna happen, but it should happen.

I dont like to bash any of our players either, but i'm starting to get sick of Rooney in the team right now, when we have Micki - who's got hunger. Rooney's on Easy Street with £300k rolling in & has been since he got his last 2 big paydays.

My three up top would be Zlatan, Rashford & Micki. Martial needs a break i think - Rashford still looks the business & needs games because he's on form.

The back 4 is the usual..

VP89 · Aug 30, 2016

Gentleman Jim said:
LOL at all the remarks about City's rubbish defence.
5 games this season have yielded 3 goals, 1 a soft penalty and WHU had but 1 serious chance yesterday (which they took).
Last year the defence was exposed by little pressing by forwards and midfielders but that has changed greatly this season. Add a hugely impressive start from Stones and it won't be easy to get at us.

Is it really that "LOL" worthy though? You play 3 at the back and only one is an established CB. You conceded too a couple key chances against a seriously struggling Sunderland and were fortunate to play a West Ham side missing 4-5 key attackers (their first choice striker, 2 new signings and Payet all included here).

You've changed your set up to adapt against pressing but much more vulnerable to balls in behind.

quethenoo · Aug 30, 2016

Uncle Bunkle said:
Oh right, sorry mate. I thought you meant a transfer in. My bad..

I'd play Carrick in a 4-3-3 with Fellaini & allow Pogba to play more offensively - dropping Rooney & replacing him with Micki; but we all know that's not gonna happen, but it should happen.

I dont like to bash any of our players either, but i'm starting to get sick of Rooney in the team right now, when we have Micki - who's got hunger. Rooney's on Easy Street with £300k rolling in & has been since he got his last 2 big paydays.

My three up top would be Zlatan, Rashford & Micki. Martial needs a break i think - Rashford still looks the business & needs games because he's on form.

The back 4 is the usual..

Yeah totally agree with all that, although I suspect Jose might be wary of changing the team too much as we have won our last 4.

edit: Think I would maybe opt for Herrera though as the extra CM, for his mobility.

Uncle Bunkle · Aug 30, 2016

quethenoo said:
Yeah totally agree with all that, although I suspect Jose might be wary of changing the team too much as we have won our last 4.

edit: Think I would maybe opt for Herrera though as the extra CM, for his mobility.

All good points man.

No point fixing something that isnt broken & ruining a winning run. I just think we could be scoring more though; but it could also go tits up if we change things around too much.

I had us down for whoopin Hull 4-0 & bejayasus did we just about scrape that 1-niller out.

I like to see Rashford & Micki starting though. Whether that might have a detrimental effect on Rooney's influence on the team remains to be seen, so we have to be careful what we wish for, i guess.

I'm pretty biased with Carrick though - he's a big game player & his passing range from defence to attack is superb; but i totally dig what you're saying about Herrera - he's a wee Duracell Bunny, but he can be very inconsistent though man. You kinda dont know type of player is gonna turn up on the day.

I still love the wee fella though - he's such a United fan boy & that's very endearing..

Gentleman Jim · Aug 30, 2016

VP89 said:
Is it really that "LOL" worthy though? You play 3 at the back and only one is an established CB. You conceded too a couple key chances against a seriously struggling Sunderland and were fortunate to play a West Ham side missing 4-5 key attackers (their first choice striker, 2 new signings and Payet all included here).

You've changed your set up to adapt against pressing but much more vulnerable to balls in behind.

We've been getting heat for our defence for years but keep on racking up Golden Gloves and are almost always in the top few in goals scored and conceded.
We're playing a new system that is unconventional with players who are learning it and catching on fairly quickly.
If West Ham had those players you spoke of available we would have set up differently, probably been a bit more cautious but do you really think that would have changed the result?
I don't.

VP89 · Aug 30, 2016

Gentleman Jim said:
We've been getting heat for our defence for years but keep on racking up Golden Gloves and are almost always in the top few in goals scored and conceded.
We're playing a new system that is unconventional with players who are learning it and catching on fairly quickly.
If West Ham had those players you spoke of available we would have set up differently, probably been a bit more cautious but do you really think that would have changed the result?
I don't.

I think you're changing the discussion here, I'm not talking about City's prior defensive records. I'm not sure how you can defend it from just talking about Golden Gloves though - last year you let in more goals than Spurs, Arsenal & United (let alone the Champions, Leicester) and were on par with Southampton. Its not what you'd expect when you chuck 40m and 30m EURs on CBs.

Back to the discussion at hand though - can you tell me what Pep would have changed had Payet etc. played? I don't see much difference personally, he'd still play the same system because he only really uses a plan A, and rarely has a plan B.

If you think differently, can you tell me how you might set up in the Derby versus us? You think Pep will suddenly play with 4 at the back? I don't.

Ole90+3 · Aug 30, 2016

With Aguero out, I'll be disappointed if we don't get 3 points here.

Gentleman Jim · Aug 30, 2016

VP89 said:
I think you're changing the discussion here, I'm not talking about City's prior defensive records. I'm not sure how you can defend it from just talking about Golden Gloves though - last year you let in more goals than Spurs, Arsenal & United (let alone the Champions, Leicester) and were on par with Southampton. Its not what you'd expect when you chuck 40m and 30m EURs on CBs.

Back to the discussion at hand though - can you tell me what Pep would have changed had Payet etc. played? I don't see much difference personally, he'd still play the same system because he only really uses a plan A, and rarely has a plan B.

If you think differently, can you tell me how you might set up in the Derby versus us? You think Pep will suddenly play with 4 at the back? I don't.

If I could predict what Pep would do in a match 11 days away without knowing who's available on either side I wouldn't be working for a living. In fact I wouldn't have too much of a clue even if I was asked when the timesheets were in. He's that baffling to a layman such as I.
I'm switching the discussion to folks rubbishing City's defence as they always seem to do. The facts speak for themselves that over the last few years we've let in the fewest goals of any PL team while outscoring everyone else and now with a great chunk of possession and Pep getting improvement from Ota and Kolarov plus making a fine player out of Stones many expect us to take a hiding from the first decent team we face (United).
Really have no idea why you trot out that Plan A/Plan B hoary old chestnut when it comes to Pep. Both Pep and Jose will use multiple changes of formation and personnel in a tough match. They'll only play vanilla tactics in routine wins against overmatched sides.

VP89 · Aug 30, 2016

Gentleman Jim said:
If I could predict what Pep would do in a match 11 days away without knowing who's available on either side I wouldn't be working for a living. In fact I wouldn't have too much of a clue even if I was asked when the timesheets were in. He's that baffling to a layman such as I.
I'm switching the discussion to folks rubbishing City's defence as they always seem to do. The facts speak for themselves that over the last few years we've let in the fewest goals of any PL team while outscoring everyone else and now with a great chunk of possession and Pep getting improvement from Ota and Kolarov plus making a fine player out of Stones many expect us to take a hiding from the first decent team we face (United).
Really have no idea why you trot out that Plan A/Plan B hoary old chestnut when it comes to Pep. Both Pep and Jose will use multiple changes of formation and personnel in a tough match. They'll only play vanilla tactics in routine wins against overmatched sides.

I wasn't asking for granular reasoning or spot on predictions, just a vague indication as to whether you really think Pep would field a plan B set up in bigger games. From what I've seen of Pep - he doesn't. The system is the same regardless of the opponent, such is the trust he puts into his squad. It can be quite disadvantageous as seen when he got mullered by Bayern and Barcelona.

I don't think he'll change his set up against us and he wouldn't have changed his system against West Ham if their players were all fit either. Its not exactly a blind guess either given his history. From that I can go back to the root of my argument and say questioning the City defence certainly isn't "LOL" worthy given they have 3 at the back and only one is an established centre back whilst the other two are full backs over 30.

Moreover I think posters were quite right to rubbish City's defence - after spending almost £70m on new centre backs they let in the same amount of goals as Southampton and let in most goals in the top 5. Its a fair criticism that would naturally only grow when they go on to play an adventurous 3 man defence the next year.

Manchester Dan · Aug 30, 2016

Interesting to see how Pep changes things without Aguero. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see a false 9 with one of Silva or De Bruyne pushing on to make room for Gundogan in the middle. Also wouldn't be surprised to see a similar formation just with Iheanacho up top instead. Also wouldn't be surprised to see him use a pacey winger up top and push De Bruyne out wide and bring Gundogan in, though I don't like that.

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