Manchester United 1:2 Swansea City

sugaspott · Aug 16, 2014

Kakeru said:
LVG will get the job done only on the day he does something that neither of his 2 predecessors had the balls to do: drop/excommunicate/sell the misfits and show no mercy for those who are just not good enough. We have been using the excuse of "maintaining a family spirit" to keep shite and technically inept players for too long now. This has to stop and I know LVG can do it, but he must do it quickly.

Sir Alex always maintained that no one is bigger than the club, an ideal I am to understand that LVG is an advocate of. That said, I think we have sufficient quality to beat the best on our day, and a new era will only start to function when the players embody the managers philosophy which may take time but until then we have to stand united in embracing the new direction of this journey,
We go again...

sugaspott · Aug 16, 2014

Kakeru said:
LVG will get the job done only on the day he does something that neither of his 2 predecessors had the balls to do: drop/excommunicate/sell the misfits and show no mercy for those who are just not good enough. We have been using the excuse of "maintaining a family spirit" to keep shite and technically inept players for too long now. This has to stop and I know LVG can do it, but he must do it quickly.

Some players may have to depart and others brought in, but it must never be at the cost of disenfranchising the "United way" which I'm afraid the money men and the commercial interests they harbour likely will lead to and that could mean in a few years time Blackett, Lingard, Keane and the rest of the boys who have risen through the ranks may never get a sniff in, .... That is the dreaded future that these mass personnel changes most on here crave will only lead to... However if Alan Hansen where to be defied once more and a number of these kids translated the philosophies onto the pitch, we would once again sing with one voice and there would be less doubt over the abilities of known winners, this squad is not a bad squad at all and 50% or thereabouts where champions league winners in Moscow or finalists at wembley or harshly treated to what I considered a setup after nanis red at old trafford

SirJanuzaj · Aug 16, 2014

This team needs a defensive leader. Smalling is nowhere good enough. He is too clumsy with the ball, making the other insecure with his clumsiness and passes sometimes the most hopeless balls to his teammates and put them under pressure. Though, Smalling is a good defender when it comes to 1-vs-1, I think.

But he is in my opinion not a leader to a topside as we should be.

Therefore, I really do hope that the rumours about Benatia is true. This fella is a new Vidic in disguise, I tell you. Beside United, I always like Roma because of Totti, so I see often their matches, and Benatia is completely a freak. Strong, demanding, a winner and a tactical very clever player. Also ruthless and intimidating in his tackles.

I think that a back three with Jones, Benatia and Blackett would be good. I know some people find it weird with Blackett, but this guys composure and technique as his psyhique is quite unique if you ask me. His distribution is fantastic, settle up some good attack with this long range passes to Januzaj in second half.

And also with Jones and Blackett as the wide defender, they can sometimes go in the attack with the others and hold the wing wide when our wingbacks is a bit more centrally in games we dominate.

Also, I hope this is the last time I see Chicharito in the starter in the 3-5-2. God, this lad is utterly useless when it comes to building up the game and create chance. His only job should be kicking it in and not been around all over the pitch and think he is RvP. His technique isn't good enough.

Also I didn't understand the substitution of Herrera when Fletcher was shite once again in a competetive match. Awful distribution, not good enough and several occasions and lost some stupid balls.

After Herrera's sub, we lost the control of the game (even though we didn't create enough chances, but Herrera made it a bit more calm for us).

Diadem @t.banty · Aug 16, 2014

The worrying thing is even our performance in the pre-season weren't good enough, apart from the Galaxy game. Majority of our goals came from either set piece play or 25 yards, we didn't really create much chances through the middle save for Herrera and Kagawa's sublime passes at times.
And the only way to rectify this is by having better control of the game which we rarely had in most games, including the pre-season matches. I hope people knows that having a good control of the game isn't all about having possession for the sake it. Dictating the tempo of the game is by being dominant with the little possession the team have and creating enough spaces for the attackers to do their damage. For example, Bayern had more possession in their 3-1 loss to Dortmund and Sahin was praised for outclasing Bastian in that game. So Dortmund basically control the tempo of that despite bayern having more possession than them. This, we rarely do, even when we have more possession than the opponent, except against a woeful Galaxy and a non pressing immobile midfield of Madrid.
And the only way to have good control of the game is to have a midfielder who have great vision of play and these kind of players are rare to find.
I wasn't even suprised of today performance because we've always look out of our depth whenever we encounter organized and well drilled teams due to this our average midfield. And when the midfield struggles, Mata's game is curbed because Mata is a player who depend on tons of space and the main reason he always find it easy everytime he played against us due to our open and gash midfield, still is.
However, against teams with high pressing and orgainized midfield, he's lost, even in his Chelsea days and I think Mourinho noticed this too. People should watch Chelsea with Mata in their games against Mancity, Liverpool, Swansea and their Ucl games (Juve, Bayern, Shaktar e.t.c), and they would notice how poor he looked in all of those games due to the fact these teams has high pressing and organized midfield but what people tends to remember is the performances he always had against us without wondering why he always had that performance against us.
The truth is, for Mata to have a good game, his supporting midfield cast must be good enough because he only does his damage in the final third and not in the midfield. I remember he had a poor start with us last season untill Moyes mistakingly played Kagawa with him while giving Kagawa a free role on the wing which allowed him to drop into the midfield to support Mata in majority of the games they played together. It's not a coincidence Mata's game improved with Kagawa dropping deep behind him last season.
Now, we have a midfield which has Herrera, a box to box player; Fletcher, an average to decent holding midfielder and with no playmaking midfielder.
As a matter of fact, the midfield which is the core of a team, needs to be improved. If we're not signing players, we should atleast make do with what we have and promote youth players.
For example, Ben Pearson should be tried to see if he can play the holding midfield role quite well for the senior team as he does for the youth team.
Kagawa is another, who has a good playmaking skill to play as the midfielder that controls the tempo but will have to be deployed in a 3-man midfield to get the best of him.
To employ a 3-man midfield doesn't mean we will have to play 4-3-3. I don't even have problem with a 3-5-2 formation as long it employs a 3-man midfield tactic. And what we've been playing aint 3-5-2 but 3-4-1-2.
If we're not going to provide enough covers for the wings, we should at least do that for the midfield but with this 3-4-1-2, our wings is not only open but also, the midfield.

Lennon7 · Aug 16, 2014

Just seen their winner properly for the first time. De Gea should've done much better and why wasn't Sigurdsson picked up what so ever? Very sloppy. Same old.

Also, whys this got 'FA Premier League' after it? Just say 'Premier League' :lol:

fordemonk · Aug 16, 2014

Diadem [USER=63673]@t.banty[/USER] said:
The worrying thing is even our preseason performance wasn't good enough, apart from the Galaxy game. Majority of our goals came from either set piece play or 25 yards, we didn't really create much chances through the middle save for Herrera and Kagawa's sublime passes at times.
And the only way to rectify this is by having better control of the game which we rarely had in most games, including the pre-season matches. I hope people knows that having a good control of the game isn't all about having possession for the sake it. Dictating the tempo of the game is by being dominant with the little possession the team have and creating enough spaces for the attackers to do their damage. For example, Bayern had more possession in their 3-1 loss to Dortmund and Sahin was praised for outclasing Bastian in that game. So Dortmund basically control the tempo of that despite bayern having more possession than them. This, we rarely do, even when we have more possession than the opponent, except against a woeful Galaxy and a non pressing immobile midfield of Madrid.
And the only way to have good control of the game is to have a midfielder who have great vision of play and these kind of players are rare to find.
I wasn't even suprised of today performance because we've always look out of our depth whenever we encounter organized and well drilled teams due to this our average midfield. And when the midfield struggles, Mata's game is curbed because Mata is a player who depend on tons of space and the main reason he always find it easy everytime he played against us due to our open and gash, still is.
However, against teams with high pressing and orgainized midfield, he's lost, even in his Chelsea days and I think Mourinho noticed this too. People should watch Chelsea with Mata in their games against Mancity, Liverpool, Swansea and their Ucl games (Juve, Bayern, Shaktar e.t.c), and they would notice how poor he looked in all of those games due to the fact these teams has high pressing and organized midfield but what people tends to remember is the performances he always had against us without wondering why he always had that performance against us.
The truth is, for Mata to have a good game, his supporting midfield cast must be good enough because he only does his damage in the final third and not in the midfield. I remember him having a poor start last season untill Moyes eroneously played Kagawa with him while giving Kagawa a free role on the wing which allowed him to drop into the midfield to support Mata in majority of the games they played together. It's not a coincidence Mata's game improved with Kagawa dropping deep behind him last season.
Now, we have a midfield which has Herrera who's a box to box player; Fletcher, an average to decent holding midfielder and with no playmaking midfielder.
As a matter of fact, the midfield which is the core of a team, needs to be improved. If we're not signing players, we should atleast make do with what we have and promote youth players.
For example, Ben Pearson should be tried to see if he can play the holding midfield role quite well for the senior team as he does for the youth team.
Kagawa is another, who has a good playmaking skill to play as the midfielder that controls the tempo but we will have to deploy him in a 3-man midfield to get the best of him.
To employ a 3-man midfield doesn't mean we will have to play 4-3-3. I don't even have problem with a 3-5-2 tactic as long it employs a 3-man midfield tactic. And what we've been playing aint 3-5-2 but 3-4-1-2.
If we're not going to provide enough covers for the wings, we should at least do that for the midfield but with this 3-4-1-2, our wings is not only open but also, the midfield.

agree 100%

ManUArfa · Aug 16, 2014

Disappointing after the pre-season but it shows that life in the PL is an entirely different prospect to taking on classy continental opposition in a friendly. Swansea made it difficult with a lot of fouls and attempts to stifle any flow to the game and they also took their two chances.

That said we failed to create anywhere near enough chances ourselves and didn't show any of the building from the back, using every square inch of the pitch and the clever, quick passing and movement that LVG had previously got us playing. I thought Nani and Januzaj looked dangerous in traditional winger positions albeit lacking in their final ball. We unfortunately left holes in the midfield by instructing Fellaini to act as a target man and then subsequently expecting Young to operate effectively as a LB alongside just two CBs within the 4-4-2.

Personally,with the switch to 4-4-2, I would have put Blackett as LB, Jones as RB and then Keane alongside Smalling which would have allowed us to leave Herrera in the midfield and have a back four of true defenders.

Diadem @t.banty · Aug 16, 2014

What was wrong in the game was so clear.
First, Fletcher was doing his best impression as a DM, which ranges from average to decent by the way.
Herrera was asked to sit back to dictate the tempo when we all know he's better running with the ball as a box to box midfielder. So what he did in that role was just to pass the ball for the sake of it without actually creating space for the attackers. His awareness and movement were a bit average too.
When Mata noticed there's no space to do his mojo, he retreated into his shell and was invisible.
Immediately Rooney saw that Mata's game was stifled and no chance forthcoming, he lost his focus and started drifting deep to be the link man and that is the last place you would want Rooney to be because of his shit composure and passing skills.
Hernandez was also useless due to the lack of chance created in the game.
Our wingback also had an off day but the midfield was the major disaster.
Everthing was just a mess and will likely repeat itself against any decent organized opponent.

RedorDead21 · Aug 16, 2014

Diadem [USER=63673]@t.banty[/USER] said:
What was wrong in the game was so clear.
First, Fletcher was doing his best impression as a DM, which ranges from average to decent by the way.
Herrera was asked to sit back to dictate the tempo when we all know he's better running with the ball as a box to box midfielder. So what he did in that role was just to pass the ball for the sake of it without actually creating space for the attackers. His awareness and movement were a bit average too.
When Mata noticed there's no space to do his mojo, he retreated into his shell and was invisible.
Immediately Rooney saw that Mata's game was stifled and no chance forthcoming, he lost his focus and started drifting deep to be the link man and that is the last place you would want Rooney to be because of his shit composure and passing skills.
Hernandez was also useless due to the lack of chance created in the game.
Our wingback also had an off day but the midfield was the major disaster.
Everthing was just a mess and will likely repeat itself against any decent organized opponent.

Good. No less than the club deserve for another garbage financial outlay and recruitment policy. Recruit 2 and lose 3 times as many players.....but go from 7th to top 4....indeed.

Kakeru · Aug 17, 2014

sugaspott said:
Some players may have to depart and others brought in, but it must never be at the cost of disenfranchising the "United way" which I'm afraid the money men and the commercial interests they harbour likely will lead to and that could mean in a few years time Blackett, Lingard, Keane and the rest of the boys who have risen through the ranks may never get a sniff in, .... That is the dreaded future that these mass personnel changes most on here crave will only lead to... However if Alan Hansen where to be defied once more and a number of these kids translated the philosophies onto the pitch, we would once again sing with one voice and there would be less doubt over the abilities of known winners, this squad is not a bad squad at all and 50% or thereabouts where champions league winners in Moscow or finalists at wembley or harshly treated to what I considered a setup after nanis red at old trafford

I was not talking about the youngsters. I was aiming at players of a certain age who have been here for at least 3-4 years, but who have not shown anything that tells us they deserve to be part of Manchester United during that time. I'm sure you know the usual suspects who have been here for that stretch of time and more.

If it wasn't for Fergie's overemphasis on building a "family-like environment", we would have renewed the squad every 4-5 years while adding at least one Starting XI quality player AND shunting a few guys who aren't good enough every year. Barcelona will end up making the same mistake by over-relying on their old guard and it already shows, but Bayern Munich has the merit of knowing how to avoid that. I wish United could learn a thing or two about that too.

KYcinco · Aug 17, 2014

I think the atmosphere at OT doesn't help (Since last season),fans need to be patient when the team are building an attack, when the groans start it really puts players off passing to a teammate who is close by or behind the ball, instead players will try a risky ball leading to the opposition gaining possession.

//

UNITED TIL WE DIE PEOPLE

J-Stander · Aug 17, 2014

KYcinco said:
I think the atmosphere at OT doesn't help (Since last season),fans need to be patient when the team are building an attack, when the groans start it really puts players off passing to a teammate who is close by or behind the ball, instead players will try a risky ball leading to the opposition gaining possession.

//

UNITED TIL WE DIE PEOPLE

When was the last time you were at OT?

KYcinco · Aug 17, 2014

J-Stander said:
When was the last time you were at OT?

vs Chelsea,last year.

bond19821982 · Aug 17, 2014

To be Honest - I am not worried about today's result. We have seen this many times under SAF as well. We are traditionally slow starters and added to the fact that LVG is still settling. Once we switched to 4-3-3 i could see the glimpses of real Man United and considering we had 5-6 players out, It was okay.

I do think we should keep Nani for one more season as he offers better threat in 4-3-3 . Please sign a world class CB and a backup CM/LB , we are good to get into top4

world class CB - 35-40m
Backup CM - 10-15m (Blind,De jong etc)
Backup LB - 10-15 m (Rojo)

Sell Fellaini, Hernandez, Cleverley, Zaha - should fetch 35-45 m which leaves a additional net spending of 30m

that makes the total summer spending to 100m -

KYcinco · Aug 17, 2014

Recall Ando

keep Zaha ,he's only 21 for gods sake

,Van Gaal To perform a "Thierry Henry" and turn him into a striker

Stack · Aug 17, 2014

REJE said:
That's not his job lol.. He's covered by two CM's for a reason. Says a lot when you think it's the number 10's job to track midfield runners.

Fletcher had made a run forwards just before the break away. It is Mata or Herrera's job to cover if a team mate has pushed forward and they are sitting deeper, thats one of the most basic things in football.

Stack · Aug 17, 2014

Devil81 said:
We would have won that game if we'd not have taken Herrara off the field, he'd started linking up well with Nani, Januzaj & Mata and it seemed crazy to take him off at that stage.

Fletcher & Jones were dreadful for me, Jones is a really poor passer of the ball, god knows why he does it but all his passes seem like dinks into the knee area, players are having to control a knee high ball whilst under challenge.

Fletch was giving the ball away all game, I really don't know why he wasn't taken off.

In the 1st half alone Fletcher had 2 wayward passes. 1 was too strong and went out for a throw in. the other was when he was in the attacking thrid and played a ball forward into the box and it was intercepted. All game?
Herrara gave the ball away 6 times in the 1st half, maybe that was why he was subbed?.

mattsville · Aug 17, 2014

Was always going to be dodgy with blackett and young in defence, you accept that, but the concerning aspect was how inept we were attacking, at home to Swansea with Rooney, hernandez, mata and januzaj we should be scoring goals, it was slow, lethargic, we were out fought, created f*ck all, no penetration or fluency, only Jones and januzaj showed any urgency or guile throughout the team, lvg going to do well to change attitudes and fix it

bosnian_red · Aug 17, 2014

Stack said:
In the 1st half alone Fletcher had 2 wayward passes. 1 was too strong and went out for a throw in. the other was when he was in the attacking thrid and played a ball forward into the box and it was intercepted. All game?
Herrara gave the ball away 6 times in the 1st half, maybe that was why he was subbed?.

According to whoscored (I know, but if you're bringing up those stats...), Fletcher had only 82% pass completion, while Herrera had 88%. Not saying he had a great game, but he was decent, and generally didn't really give the ball away apart from a few passes.

Said it in another thread, but I think the likeliest reason why he was subbed was because Van Gaal wanted to go more direct, so put Fellaini on and pushed him up the pitch. He didn't want to sub Mata off because of his set piece abilities, and Fletcher is the defensive mid out of him and Herrera so he couldn't take off the 1 defensive player in midfield, therefore he had to take Ander off. Wrong choice in the end IMO, he probably should have taken off Mata given how ineffective he was, but I don't think Herrera got taken off because he was giving it away or playing poorly. Just a change of tactic.

fordemonk · Aug 17, 2014

bosnian_red said:
According to whoscored (I know, but if you're bringing up those stats...), Fletcher had only 82% pass completion, while Herrera had 88%. Not saying he had a great game, but he was decent, and generally didn't really give the ball away apart from a few passes.

Said it in another thread, but I think the likeliest reason why he was subbed was because Van Gaal wanted to go more direct, so put Fellaini on and pushed him up the pitch. He didn't want to sub Mata off because of his set piece abilities, and Fletcher is the defensive mid out of him and Herrera so he couldn't take off the 1 defensive player in midfield, therefore he had to take Ander off. Wrong choice in the end IMO, he probably should have taken off Mata given how ineffective he was, but I don't think Herrera got taken off because he was giving it away or playing poorly. Just a change of tactic.

but if he was to take off mata surely kagawa is a better option than fellaini?

bosnian_red · Aug 17, 2014

fordemonk said:
but if he was to take off mata surely kagawa is a better option than fellaini?

That's what I would have done, but Van Gaal obviously wanted to go more direct as generally Mata and Kagawa are a similar type of player so it might not have made a difference at all.

fordemonk · Aug 17, 2014

bosnian_red said:
That's what I would have done, but Van Gaal obviously wanted to go more direct as generally Mata and Kagawa are a similar type of player so it might not have made a difference at all.

True. Makes me worry a bit for Kagawa s role in the team though

golazo · Aug 17, 2014

I've had a sleep after the match and not feeling angry about it anymore. Although it has ruined my weekend!

Some thoughts on the match:

Some people will look at the stats and see that Fletcher had a high pass percentage, but please note the majority were backwards or sideways. The times I saw him play it forward it was intercepted with ridiculous ease. And when we're trying to defend against a counter attack, it's like playing a man down with him there.

Herrera is going to be an absolute weapon once he finds his feet. Not sure why he was subbed, LVG must've thought he was too tired.

When Fellaini comes on as a midfielder and all he's doing is sitting on the shoulder of the last defender, trying to get a header with 15 minutes to go, you know there's a problem. He's not the only tall midfielder in history.. I never saw Vieira do that. Yaya Toure's just a few CM shorter and he doesn't do that..same with Alex Witsel. He does it as if heading is his only quality...and he sucks at that too. Needs to be gone ASAP.

I quite liked Blackett. The defensive side may not be fully fine tuned YET, but his passing is probably in the upper tier for defenders in the premier league. Nice technique and the way he pin points it without giving too much air for long passes is nice to see..and he's very confident/accurate with the short passes.

Hernandez doesn't fit the system/the team full stop. Needs to be sold to someone who'll give him more playing time

Nani has lost his xfactor. I hope he gets it back with us, but it looks unlikely

Janujaz made some incredible runs, but he needs to get his head up more and look for the easy pass after making a nice run instead of taking impossible shots from stupid angles

Rooney didn't get involved much, but he did OK.

Mata was missing for large chunks. I think it was largely because the distance inbetween the lines were too far apart and the deeper midfielders inability to take control of the ball for large parts in Swansea's territory (which also caused more counters, which makes the defence look worse than it was)

Young was back to his useless self. And a bird shat in his mouth to cap it all off.

-----

In saying that, we weren't THAT bad and I've seen us play some worse stuff in the opening few games, even under Fergie. Time will tell how it all goes, but he MUST, MUST, MUST, MUST SIGN 2-3 MORE PLAYERS. Even if it's not the Vidal's and Di Maria's that we all want, we at least need some depth so we don't need to use mid-table quality players like Fellaini, Hernandez and Cleverley when the stars aren't available.

A disappointing start to the season, but I'm sure we'll do well.

mcGonigle · Aug 17, 2014

At the end of the day, felaini is still felaini, young is still young, nani is still nani...

You can't polish a turd lads.....

DomesticTadpole · Aug 17, 2014

sugaspott said:
Sir Alex always maintained that no one is bigger than the club, an ideal I am to understand that LVG is an advocate of. That said, I think we have sufficient quality to beat the best on our day, and a new era will only start to function when the players embody the managers philosophy which may take time but until then we have to stand united in embracing the new direction of this journey,
We go again...

DomesticTadpole · Aug 17, 2014

golazo said:
I've had a sleep after the match and not feeling angry about it anymore. Although it has ruined my weekend!

Some thoughts on the match:

Some people will look at the stats and see that Fletcher had a high pass percentage, but please note the majority were backwards or sideways. The times I saw him play it forward it was intercepted with ridiculous ease. And when we're trying to defend against a counter attack, it's like playing a man down with him there.

Herrera is going to be an absolute weapon once he finds his feet. Not sure why he was subbed, LVG must've thought he was too tired.

When Fellaini comes on as a midfielder and all he's doing is sitting on the shoulder of the last defender, trying to get a header with 15 minutes to go, you know there's a problem. He's not the only tall midfielder in history.. I never saw Vieira do that. Yaya Toure's just a few CM shorter and he doesn't do that..same with Alex Witsel. He does it as if heading is his only quality...and he sucks at that too. Needs to be gone ASAP.

I quite liked Blackett. The defensive side may not be fully fine tuned YET, but his passing is probably in the upper tier for defenders in the premier league. Nice technique and the way he pin points it without giving too much air for long passes is nice to see..and he's very confident/accurate with the short passes.

Hernandez doesn't fit the system/the team full stop. Needs to be sold to someone who'll give him more playing time

Nani has lost his xfactor. I hope he gets it back with us, but it looks unlikely

Janujaz made some incredible runs, but he needs to get his head up more and look for the easy pass after making a nice run instead of taking impossible shots from stupid angles

Rooney didn't get involved much, but he did OK.

Mata was missing for large chunks. I think it was largely because the distance inbetween the lines were too far apart and the deeper midfielders inability to take control of the ball for large parts in Swansea's territory (which also caused more counters, which makes the defence look worse than it was)

Young was back to his useless self. And a bird shat in his mouth to cap it all off.

-----

In saying that, we weren't THAT bad and I've seen us play some worse stuff in the opening few games, even under Fergie. Time will tell how it all goes, but he MUST, MUST, MUST, MUST SIGN 2-3 MORE PLAYERS. Even if it's not the Vidal's and Di Maria's that we all want, we at least need some depth so we don't need to use mid-table quality players like Fellaini, Hernandez and Cleverley when the stars aren't available.

A disappointing start to the season, but I'm sure we'll do well.

I hope Herrera has Shelvey's face etched on his brain for next time we play them. Poor lad if he thinks he's a dirty player, he's got Lee Catermole next week.

Ayush_reddevil · Aug 17, 2014

I said pre match in this thread that this whole easy start stuff was bullshit and sadly I was right

manux399 · Aug 17, 2014

Watching yesterdays game I struck on the thought we've now got 10 Ray Wilkins's in our team..! DDG being the only one who uses a forward pass consistently

Ayush_reddevil · Aug 17, 2014

DomesticTadpole said:
I hope Herrera has Shelvey's face etched on his brain for next time we play them. Poor lad if he thinks he's a dirty player, he's got Lee Catermole next week.

I hate that about the PL, Shelvey completely took out Herrera at the start and the commentator goes 'Herrera will quickly learn about the robustness of this league'. Well no you wanker kicking someone out is not robustness

DomesticTadpole · Aug 17, 2014

Ayush_reddevil said:
I hate that about the PL, Shelvey completely took out Herrera at the start and the commentator goes 'Herrera will quickly learn about the robustness of this league'. Well no you wanker kicking someone out is not robustness

That's why England will never do anything. They have too many players like him, spoilers and they are encouraged to do it. We used to criticise other leagues for having clogger like this.

AndyMUFC · Aug 17, 2014

Just poor all around and jujst the sort of performance we saw under Moyes. Shows how little pre-season matters.

We were lacking going forward and exposed in midfield and at the back by a bit of pace from Swansea as per usual. They didn't even play that well and they've come away with three points at Old Trafford.

It might be a blessing in disguise if it means the club pull their finger out and strengthen but you do wonder if that's actually gonna happen.

NoLogo · Aug 17, 2014

Whelp I sad to miss the first game of the season due to rl activities but seeing the result now I feel like it was the right choice. I just hope that was a slip up and not what will await us for the rest of the season.

Physiocrat · Aug 17, 2014

It was a poor performance but there's no need to go over board and buy everyone under the sun. Yes we need a new CM and defender but we always knew that.

IMO, the most disappointing aspect was the front line not the back. We created nothing, Swansea flooded the middle and we had no options out wide to stretch the play. We really needed to move the ball quicker and push the wingbacks further up the pitch to provide more options. It was noticeable in the second half we had more space in the middle when Nani went left and Januzaj right. As has been observed Hernandez really doesn't suit the system as he's limited as an all-round player- Welbeck, Nani, Januzaj and obviously RVP would be a much better fit in that position. A poster in another thread had an interesting plan of playing one wing-back and one winger (Nani or Januzaj) Effectively still a 3-4-1-2 but with one of the four much more advanced so numbers wide it would be an asymmetric 3-3-2-2. It could work to open up teams who will sit back whilst retaining the overall shape and philosophy of the 3-4-1-2. It would probably only work with Shaw at LWB as his defensively more competent than the rest of the wing-backs. The 3-4-1-2 isn't my ideal system but it'll play to our strengths once we are fully confident in how to play with it. Ruud Guilit annoyed me on MOTD claiming van Gaal had always played 4-3-3 when he won the Champions League with Ajax playing a 3-4-3 diamond.

I was impressed with Blackett's distribution (that pass to Januzaj was great) and thought overall he had decent game. It was also the first time I'd seen Herrera- he passes and moves well always making himself available. It was noticeable that we created much less when he was on the field. The Fellaini sub was odd. Also with the half-time changes I would have liked Young to have switched to RB and Blackett to LB with Jones and Smalling in the middle with Nani right and Januzaj left. The defence would have been a bit more solid (it would have been easier for Young certainly) and better going forward- Young overlapping Nani could well have been productive.

Poor start obviously but with a couple of signings top 4 is certainly on.

SalfordRed1960 · Aug 17, 2014

NoLogo said:
Whelp I sad to miss the first game of the season due to rl activities but seeing the result now I feel like it was the right choice. I just hope that was a slip up and not what will await us for the rest of the season.

In fairness Swansea were comfortable on the ball, had a very clear plan and knew that they were always going to get one or two chances during the game which they had to take. And that they did. It is not like United were dominated.

From United's point of view, we had no attacking threat in the slightest. Teams know Rooney is not going to be in and around the box most of the time, so they do not have to worry against one attacker, i.e. Hernandez. Apart from free kicks and corners I don't think Mata touched the ball, nobody seemed to find him.

Young just reverted back to get the ball and pass backwards, no conviction or attempt to attack. Herrera and Fletcher just caught on the ball or did the simple things that got us nowehere. Lingaard was a bit better than Young but not by much, and got hurt making a stupid tackle. Adnan just showed what we saw last season, a threat on the ball, but hasn't learnt to pass at the right time, trying to be the hero, when there are better options.

I actually, thought the back line didn't do as bad as people have made out. Blackett was certainly comfortable on the ball, did not really get caught out by the Swansea attackers, Jones and Smalling, aside from not having the ability to make a correctly weighted pass, were not really troubled by Swansea attackers.

It is when you look at the team as a whole you see the problems alluded to by LVG. Too much thinking about the system, causes people to make the wrong choice with and without the ball. We looked far better in the second half when we went 4 at the back, but we still conceded a goal from someone being totally free in the box. There wasn't one case of a United player being free in the box, other than the corner from which Rooney scored.

YouOnlyLiveTwice · Aug 18, 2014

I had the same feeling as last year after Swansea scores the first goal, that we wouldn't score unless it was a set piece where Swansea looked a bit Shaky.
I felt we needed a 3rd person in cm to help build up play. Getting a Carrick in form or Someone like him would probably help massive, as we need Someone to go and dictate play. Herrera tried, but hes not about that, i think we have to realise that. Not fan of this 3-5-2, hard to create anything against midtable teams or lower. Would like a 4-5-1 with the point backwards to make it easier creating play.

RedDevil@84 · Aug 18, 2014

Was watching the NUFC Vs City match yesterday.. Was awed by City's playing XI (except Hart) and their subs.. They have real gems in almost every position and the subs are also another excellent crop of players.. Basically what we lack is quality and not really the style of play..

bosnian_red · Aug 18, 2014

RedDevil@84 said:
Was watching the NUFC Vs City match yesterday.. Was awed by City's playing XI (except Hart) and their subs.. They have real gems in almost every position and the subs are also another excellent crop of players.. Basically what we lack is quality and not really the style of play..

Really? That city 11 wasn't special yesterday. In fact when our lineup is fully fit, I'd take Kompany, toure and silva in Uniteds team but the others are no better then what we have. Rooney and rvp are obviously world class for us, mata is better then Nasri, Herrera over fernando, de gea over hart, any of ours center backs over demichellis, and then Rafael over clichy and Shaw over Kolarov.

They were missing a few starters, but people really over exaggerate them. They're good but a functional team which we need time to become and everyone will look much better.

subhakar · Aug 18, 2014

Diadem [USER=63673]@t.banty[/USER] said:
What was wrong in the game was so clear.
First, Fletcher was doing his best impression as a DM, which ranges from average to decent by the way.
Herrera was asked to sit back to dictate the tempo when we all know he's better running with the ball as a box to box midfielder. So what he did in that role was just to pass the ball for the sake of it without actually creating space for the attackers. His awareness and movement were a bit average too.
When Mata noticed there's no space to do his mojo, he retreated into his shell and was invisible.
Immediately Rooney saw that Mata's game was stifled and no chance forthcoming, he lost his focus and started drifting deep to be the link man and that is the last place you would want Rooney to be because of his shit composure and passing skills.
Hernandez was also useless due to the lack of chance created in the game.
Our wingback also had an off day but the midfield was the major disaster.
Everthing was just a mess and will likely repeat itself against any decent organized opponent.

exactly man..100% agreed

sharpiesdance · Aug 18, 2014

Devil81 said:
We would have won that game if we'd not have taken Herrara off the field, he'd started linking up well with Nani, Januzaj & Mata and it seemed crazy to take him off at that stage.

Fletcher & Jones were dreadful for me, Jones is a really poor passer of the ball, god knows why he does it but all his passes seem like dinks into the knee area, players are having to control a knee high ball whilst under challenge.

Fletch was giving the ball away all game, I really don't know why he wasn't taken off.

Agree with you abou Fletch and Jones. Smalling wasn't any better...

IwatUwat · Aug 18, 2014

Thought it was an odd match all round. Really open through the middle, end to end game but with not a lot of chances. Both teams just spent the first half sprinting at each other, with no real control to the game! Surprised LVG didnt come to the sidelines during the first half and tell someone to get their foot on the ball.

Mata was quiet and Rooney didn't link up to well in terms of getting the ball into him in dangerous positions. Very strange game to watch I thought, could tell it was the first game back as everyone was so eager, but the quality wasn't there. My only worry is will the quality come. Fletcher wasn't good enough and the formation didn't really work on Sat. Lets hope another week and an actual competitive game to review with the team helps LVG.

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