Manchester United 1:1 West Ham United

Samid · Jul 21, 2020

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This should be Ole's pre match pep talk. 6-0.

Inigo Montoya · Jul 21, 2020

Nou_Camp99 said:
I think that's what we will be doing.

Because two seasons will have been stuck together without a proper break and a football season is gruelling. You only have to look at us in the last few games, the gas is running out of us. Add another 55-60 game season on after the EL and we will run out of gas way before next May/June.

I think players like Bruno, Martial, Rashford n Pogba should be given the EL off if we make top 4 come Sunday. Maybe give them a run out bu I certainly wouldn't be playing them in every game 90 mins after the LASK game. Yes a trophy is a nice but in the grand scheme of things nobody cares about it who is in the CL anyway. It's the second rate European competition. If we need to win it to qualify for the CL then fair enough. If we don't I think it's a huge risk on our players looking ahead to next season.

At the chance of winning a trophy? No chance. They'll be banging down the door to play

Inigo Montoya · Jul 21, 2020

Samid said:
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This should be Ole's pre match pep talk. 6-0.

Err. The difference was you inherited a squad that had won the PL title, you didn't make a single good signing and even with the addition of a couple of players in Fellaini and Mata you made us so god awful to watch. Then you did the same at subsequent clubs.

Sorry Moyesie but you were so palbably out of your depth, it was depressing...like watching a wounded animal slowly and painfully dying while all you could do was watch

Champ · Jul 21, 2020

Nou_Camp99 said:
I think that's what we will be doing.

Because two seasons will have been stuck together without a proper break and a football season is gruelling. You only have to look at us in the last few games, the gas is running out of us. Add another 55-60 game season on after the EL and we will run out of gas way before next May/June.

I think players like Bruno, Martial, Rashford n Pogba should be given the EL off if we make top 4 come Sunday. Maybe give them a run out bu I certainly wouldn't be playing them in every game 90 mins after the LASK game. Yes a trophy is a nice but in the grand scheme of things nobody cares about it who is in the CL anyway. It's the second rate European competition. If we need to win it to qualify for the CL then fair enough. If we don't I think it's a huge risk on our players looking ahead to next season.

This is the sort of mentality that settles for mediocrity.
We should be going for every trophy we can, and the only one we have within our grasp now is Europa.
We should want to win it with every fibre of our being, how good will top four and a major European trophy feel?
The players just had two and a bit months off, I'm fairly certain they'll be able to cope with a slightly reduced rest going into next season.
Basically we are asking the players to play 6 more games of football before the end of the season, so 6 games in 5 weeks, after having a week's rest, and 5 days rest between Europa League games, the first of which we have a 5 goal cushion.
Not a mammoth task as alot of these players would have been playing European Championships this summer anyhow!!
But let's not try and win a trophy because of next season eh?!

Nou_Camp99 · Jul 21, 2020

Inigo Montoya said:
At the chance of winning a trophy? No chance. They'll be banging down the door to play

Maybe they will.....I'm just thinking longer term. You know how fickle the caf is. If we're tanking in the league come next April everyone will be saying we should have given the big players a break in a competition we didn't need to win (if we finish top 4).

Obviously I'd prefer a trophy over no trophy but I'm already worried about next season and how they are going to squeeze in all those games.

Call me crazy but I prefer no trophy and give ourselves a better shot next year. That's only assuming we finish top 4 like I keep saying.

Nou_Camp99 · Jul 21, 2020

Champ said:
This is the sort of mentality that settles for mediocrity.
We should be going for every trophy we can, and the only one we have within our grasp now is Europa.
We should want to win it with every fibre of our being, how good will top four and a major European trophy feel?
The players just had two and a bit months off, I'm fairly certain they'll be able to cope with a slightly reduced rest going into next season.
Basically we are asking the players to play 6 more games of football before the end of the season, so 6 games in 5 weeks, after having a week's rest, and 5 days rest between Europa League games, the first of which we have a 5 goal cushion.
Not a mammoth task as alot of these players would have been playing European Championships this summer anyhow!!
But let's not try and win a trophy because of next season eh?!

Again you can't see the bigger picture. 55-60 games season coming real soon and they will be squeezing it into a shorter period too no doubt. When the players start tanking in games and we drop off the pace please remember this comment. The Europa League for me only becomes vital if we cock it up this weekend.

Liverpool must be laughing their heads off being out of Europe. They will be red hot favs next season for sure. Players look like they are out of gas already which such a gruelling schedule since lockdown. They are not machines.

drmuji · Jul 21, 2020

buckooo1978 said:
ah yes - we'd better score 5 then

Can't get it. Our Goal Difference is similar at this moment, right? So if we score 3, they will have to score 3 to get the goal difference back to zero

Samid · Jul 21, 2020

drmuji said:
Can't get it. Our Goal Difference is similar at this moment, right? So if we score 3, they will have to score 3 to get the goal difference back to zero

Who will they be scoring those goals against?

Tom Van Persie · Jul 21, 2020

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King7Eric · Jul 21, 2020

drmuji said:
Can't get it. Our Goal Difference is similar at this moment, right? So if we score 3, they will have to score 3 to get the goal difference back to zero

They will be scoring those 3 against us, so their GD will go up by 3, ours will decrease by 3. If we beat West Ham by 5 goals, we can afford to lose by 2 goals against Leicester and still finish above them. If we beat West Ham by 3, we can only afford to lose by 1 goal. Anything less than a 3 goal victory against West Ham will actually have the same effect as a draw. In both cases we will need to win or draw against Leicester to finish above them. Any kind of defeat and they would overtake us.

jderbyshire · Jul 21, 2020

De Gea
Wan Bissaka Lindelof Maguire Williams
Pogba McTominay
Greenwood Fernandes Rashford
Martial

Not sure what response to expect from us. We haven't looked at the races the past few games, but sometimes we can rely on individual moments of brilliance to see us through.

Not going to be an easy game. Just do what we can to get the three points.

Champ · Jul 21, 2020

Nou_Camp99 said:
Yeah and then we go into another full season without a proper break where the scousers have had 5 weeks off and you lot will be losing your minds when we are 30pts behind again.

If we finish top 4.....the Europa League just becomes a distraction for me and needless risk. Our lads will benefit more from a break before another gruelling season. Plays the ressies.

God forbid we only have a 4 week break, I mean in a 'normal' season with European Championships going on majority of our players would have had less of a break than that.

Nou_Camp99 said:
Again you can't see the bigger picture. 55-60 games season coming real soon and they will be squeezing it into a shorter period too no doubt. When the players start tanking in games and we drop off the pace please remember this comment. The Europa League for me only becomes vital if we cock it up this weekend.

Liverpool must be laughing their heads off being out of Europe. They will be red hot favs next season for sure. Players look like they are out of gas already which such a gruelling schedule since lockdown. They are not machines.

Yeah, I bet Liverpool are loving the fact they can't win another trophy

What a bizarre way of thinking!!

Let's not win a major European trophy because the players need an extra rest and can't handle 4 extra games before a 4 week break?!? Strange.

We are 5-0 up for the first game, rotate and play the backups,
Weeks break before the next game, then weeks break before the next etc, it's not exactly that gruelling, it's similar to the European Championships which most of the players would be in anyhow :rolleyes:

but with a free pass for the first game.

Stevondo8 · Jul 21, 2020

How do people not understand goal difference? If one teams goal difference is going up, their opposition’s is going down. It ain’t rocket science.

Annihilate Now! · Jul 21, 2020

Inigo Montoya said:
Err. The difference was you inherited a squad that had won the PL title, you didn't make a single good signing and even with the addition of a couple of players in Fellaini and Mata you made us so god awful to watch. Then you did the same at subsequent clubs.

And he showed poor man-management, played negative football and had no idea how to manage a club the size of Manchester United

But apart from that they're exactly the same right?

drmuji · Jul 21, 2020

King7Eric said:
They will be scoring those 3 against us, so their GD will go up by 3, ours will decrease by 3. If we beat West Ham by 5 goals, we can afford to lose by 2 goals against Leicester and still finish above them. If we beat West Ham by 3, we can only afford to lose by 1 goal. Anything less than a 3 goal victory against West Ham will actually have the same effect as a draw. In both cases we will need to win or draw against Leicester to finish above them. Any kind of defeat and they would overtake us.

Ohhhhh Got it. My bad. I am not very good at this stuff

Nou_Camp99 · Jul 21, 2020

Champ said:
God forbid we only have a 4 week break, I mean in a 'normal' season with European Championships going on majority of our players would have had less of a break than that.

Yeah, I bet Liverpool are loving the fact they can't win another trophy
What a bizarre way of thinking!!

Let's not win a major European trophy because the players need an extra rest and can't handle 4 extra games before a 4 week break?!? Strange.

We are 5-0 up for the first game, rotate and play the backups,
Weeks break before the next game, then weeks break before the next etc, it's not exactly that gruelling, it's similar to the European Championships which most of the players would be in anyhow but with a free pass for the first game.

You can't see past your agenda mate. These are exceptional circumstances. When does the last 3 rounds of the CL n EL ever take place between seasons? It doesn't. So it's simply not black and white.

Of course a trophy is better than none but im looking at this more long term than you are. No doubt you will be the first to moan if we do as I suggest we may and start tanking next spring.

And what will we get at the end of it, that's if we even win it mind? CL football which we may already have this weekend. The trophy isn't one of the top ones is it?

Liverpool players will get a really good break and have the energy in their legs in next season's run in. That's the point I'm making. If you can't see that then I don't know how else to explain it to you.

Adam-Utd · Jul 21, 2020

Stevondo8 said:
How do people not understand goal difference? If one teams goal difference is going up, their opposition’s is going down. It ain’t rocket science.

Are you really surprised? Redcafe's average football knowledge stems about as far as Fifa 20.

All these people saying we will win by 5-6 goals are just deluded. This won't be easy just like the Southampton match. They have zero pressure, they always "play up" to to the bigger teams and Moyes will want to come and ruin the party.

I'll be happy if we win by 2 clear goals to be honest.

Nou_Camp99 · Jul 21, 2020

Adam-Utd said:
Are you really surprised? Redcafe's average football knowledge stems about as far as Fifa 20.

All these people saying we will win by 5-6 goals are just deluded. This won't be easy just like the Southampton match. They have zero pressure, they always "play up" to to the bigger teams and Moyes will want to come and ruin the party.

I'll be happy if we win by 2 clear goals to be honest.

Yeah I can see us maybe even dropping 2 pts and drawing this game. It wont be a walk in the park. Hope it is but I can't see it.

That doesn't really alter much for Sunday either if we do draw as we'd still need another draw at Leicester to qualify.

Schmeichel's Cartwheel · Jul 21, 2020

Stevondo8 said:
How do people not understand goal difference? If one teams goal difference is going up, their opposition’s is going down. It ain’t rocket science.

It’s boggled my mind the number of people who don’t realise if Leicester beat us 1-0 there’s a 2 goal swing :lol:

Annihilate Now! · Jul 21, 2020

Stevondo8 said:
How do people not understand goal difference? If one teams goal difference is going up, their opposition’s is going down. It ain’t rocket science.

Don't you know that headers and volleys count for double?

And in off the bar? That's worth 3 goals!

King7Eric · Jul 21, 2020

Nou_Camp99 said:
Yeah I can see us maybe even dropping 2 pts and drawing this game. It wont be a walk in the park. Hope it is but I can't see it.

That doesn't really alter much for Sunday either if we do draw as we'd still need another draw at Leicester to qualify.

As I mentioned in a post above, anything less than a 3 goal victory tomorrow is the same as a draw. Because it will leave us needing to avoid defeat on the final day. Any kind of defeat on Sunday will see Leicester overtake us. So even though its not gonna be easy, we really need to be up for the game tomorrow and try to score as many as possible. If we ever needed an early goal, it'll be tomorrow.

Nou_Camp99 · Jul 21, 2020

King7Eric said:
As I mentioned in a post above, anything less than a 3 goal victory tomorrow is the same as a draw. Because it will leave us needing to avoid defeat on the final day. Any kind of defeat on Sunday will see Leicester overtake us. So even though its not gonna be easy, we really need to be up for the game tomorrow and try to score as many as possible. If we ever needed an early goal, it'll be tomorrow.

Agreed. Lets hope Villa don't win tonight and Westham boys relax too much. If we score early we definitely could get 3 or 4. The problem is when we don't get an early goal we get very nervy in these pressure situations.

bosnian_red · Jul 21, 2020

King7Eric said:
As I mentioned in a post above, anything less than a 3 goal victory tomorrow is the same as a draw. Because it will leave us needing to avoid defeat on the final day. Any kind of defeat on Sunday will see Leicester overtake us. So even though its not gonna be easy, we really need to be up for the game tomorrow and try to score as many as possible. If we ever needed an early goal, it'll be tomorrow.

Its the same for Leicesters purposes but winning puts loads of pressure on Chelsea. They have 2 very tough games left, and need a win.

Champ · Jul 21, 2020

Nou_Camp99 said:
You can't see past your agenda mate. These are exceptional circumstances. When does the last 3 rounds of the CL n EL ever take place between seasons? It doesn't. So it's simply not black and white.

Of course a trophy is better than none but im looking at this more long term than you are. No doubt you will be the first to moan if we do as I suggest we may and start tanking next spring.

And what will we get at the end of it, that's if we even win it mind? CL football which we may already have this weekend. The trophy isn't one of the top ones is it?

Liverpool players will get a really good break and have the energy in their legs in next season's run in. That's the point I'm making. If you can't see that then I don't know how else to explain it to you.

I have no agenda other than wanting the club to win as many trophies as it can, for me that's a better agenda then making sure our players have an extra two week break before going into a season where we could fail anyhow!!
Beggars belief that any United 'fan' would rather they throw a chance of a trophy away then try to win it. Just bizarre thinking!!

I fully get what your saying, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, or hopefully the coaching staff at United.
As I keep saying, the players would have had less rest before the new season had it been a 'normal' season due to European Championships, whilst granted this wouldn't affect every player it would certainly have affected the majority.

Our players will have had 4 weeks break before the new season starts, and would have played potentially 4 extra games, do you think that's going to damage the players for next season?
Do you think that will put us in a bad way over Liverpool?
Do you think Liverpool would rather be in the Champions League still or going through pre season drills?
Would the United players rather have a trophy or be doing pre season drills?
Genuine questions I know you feel you have answered, but I just want to highlight the silliness of what your saying!!

Skåre Willoch · Jul 21, 2020

Usual line-up, but swap Matic for McTominay.

King7Eric · Jul 21, 2020

bosnian_red said:
Its the same for Leicesters purposes but winning puts loads of pressure on Chelsea. They have 2 very tough games left, and need a win.

I won't say it's the same for Leicester. If Leicester go into the final day knowing they have to win by 2 or 3 clear goals they will be that much attack minded from the start, leaving space behind for us to exploit. If they know any kind of win will do they will be that much more circumspect, making it that much difficult for us to score.

Nou_Camp99 · Jul 21, 2020

Champ said:
I have no agenda other than wanting the club to win as many trophies as it can, for me that's a better agenda then making sure our players have an extra two week break before going into a season where we could fail anyhow!!
Beggars belief that any United 'fan' would rather they throw a chance of a trophy away then try to win it. Just bizarre thinking!!

I fully get what your saying, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me, or hopefully the coaching staff at United.
As I keep saying, the players would have had less rest before the new season had it been a 'normal' season due to European Championships, whilst granted this wouldn't affect every player it would certainly have affected the majority.

Our players will have had 4 weeks break before the new season starts, and would have played potentially 4 extra games, do you think that's going to damage the players for next season?
Do you think that will put us in a bad way over Liverpool?
Do you think Liverpool would rather be in the Champions League still or going through pre season drills?
Would the United players rather have a trophy or be doing pre season drills?
Genuine questions I know you feel you have answered, but I just want to highlight the silliness of what your saying!!

I want to win trophies too. But it's more complex than that and you know it is really. If you think we should get hell for leather to win the EL, even if we finish top 4, then fair enough. I just think we do have to bare into consideration whats going on right now in the world and the shorter turn around between seasons. It's definitely going to play a factor next spring.

In saying that.....watch us cock it up this week now and we will have to try and win it anyway.

bosnian_red · Jul 21, 2020

King7Eric said:
I won't say it's the same for Leicester. If Leicester go into the final day knowing they have to win by 2 or 3 clear goals they will be that much attack minded from the start, leaving space behind for us to exploit. If they know any kind of win will do they will be that much more circumspect, making it that much difficult for us to score.

I meant draw or 2-0 is the same for them, but it isn't for Chelsea. Thats why any win is good, though of course winning by 3 would be huge for the reasons you mention.

theklr · Jul 21, 2020

Nou_Camp99 said:
I think that's what we will be doing.

Because two seasons will have been stuck together without a proper break and a football season is gruelling. You only have to look at us in the last few games, the gas is running out of us. Add another 55-60 game season on after the EL and we will run out of gas way before next May/June.

I think players like Bruno, Martial, Rashford n Pogba should be given the EL off if we make top 4 come Sunday. Maybe give them a run out bu I certainly wouldn't be playing them in every game 90 mins after the LASK game. Yes a trophy is a nice but in the grand scheme of things nobody cares about it who is in the CL anyway. It's the second rate European competition. If we need to win it to qualify for the CL then fair enough. If we don't I think it's a huge risk on our players looking ahead to next season.

I will bet alot of money that Ole 100% will try to win this and field his best XI when in quarter finals.

Nou_Camp99 · Jul 21, 2020

theklr said:
I will bet alot of money that Ole 100% will try to win this and field his best XI when in quarter finals.

Just like he did in the semi finals of the cup 2 days ago?

Hahahahaha

Stevondo8 · Jul 21, 2020

Annihilate Now! said:
Don't you know that headers and volleys count for double?

And in off the bar? That's worth 3 goals!

If only Maguire was any good at attacking corners...we’d be miles ahead in goal difference then!

Smithy89 · Jul 21, 2020

Moyes is gonna have his team setup like it's the biggest game of their lives, he'd love to potentially end our top 4 run.

Champ · Jul 21, 2020

Nou_Camp99 said:
I want to win trophies too. But it's more complex than that and you know it is really. If you think we should get hell for leather to win the EL, even if we finish top 4, then fair enough. I just think we do have to bare into consideration whats going on right now in the world and the shorter turn around between seasons. It's definitely going to play a factor next spring.

In saying that.....watch us cock it up this week now and we will have to try and win it anyway.

I have major doubts that we can see off West Ham and Leicester unfortunately!!

Hopefully we can put West Ham to the sword and relieve a little of the pressure against Leicester.

However I think West Ham will be bang up for this one and can see them getting a win, just hope we play our front three and tear them apart.

To be fair, we have been playing reasonably well up to the Chelsea game, and I don't think West Ham have the personnel to play a high pressing game which will suit us, we need goals though, and more importantly three points!

Black Adder · Jul 21, 2020

King7Eric said:
I won't say it's the same for Leicester. If Leicester go into the final day knowing they have to win by 2 or 3 clear goals they will be that much attack minded from the start, leaving space behind for us to exploit. If they know any kind of win will do they will be that much more circumspect, making it that much difficult for us to score.

And United can play only as much as Leicester allows them?

We're not facing prime Barcelona but Leicester, if we can't get result against them than we don't deserve CL, going into match thinking what they need is wrong, is about what United need and how accomplish that.

Suedesi · Jul 21, 2020

Moysie with the upset at OT. Goal coming from a long cross in the 82nd minute. West Ham to hold on for the tight 1-0 win..

King7Eric · Jul 21, 2020

Black Adder said:
And United can play only as much as Leicester allows them?

We're not facing prime Barcelona but Leicester, if we can't get result against them than we don't deserve CL, going into match thinking what they need is wrong, is about what United need and how accomplish that.

All this sounds well and good but we all know reality is a bit different. Success breeds confidence and this team hasn't been that successful yet to be impervious to pressure. They'll get there, I'm sure of it but we are not there yet. If we can make things easier for ourselves before going into a high pressure game, there's nothing wrong in thinking in those terms.

Glorio · Jul 21, 2020

Not saying we should aim for it, but 2 draws and we're in, right?

Not a bad place to be in considering where we were before now. It at least gives the psychological boost that you don't need to take big risks to try and force the issue.

Not loving the matchup of Antonio's pace and power vs any of our CBs to be honest, we need to guard against the counter as much as possible

Black Adder · Jul 21, 2020

King7Eric said:
All this sounds well and good but we all know reality is a bit different. Success breeds confidence and this team hasn't been that successful yet to be impervious to pressure. They'll get there, I'm sure of it but we are not there yet. If we can make things easier for ourselves before going into a high pressure game, there's nothing wrong in thinking in those terms.

I do know, and of course it would be better for us to get big result against West Ham before going to Leicester but let's win with any margin against West Ham and let Leicester worry about us, not other way around.

Reddevildans · Jul 21, 2020

Is shaw fit?

432JuanMata · Jul 21, 2020

Samid said:
Who will they be scoring those goals against?

I’ve seen this a lot. I feel like people need basic maths lessons.

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