West Ham United 2:0 Manchester United

2 man midfield · Sep 22, 2019

Ace of Spades said:
And yet, West Ham created nothing in the second half. You just can't miss easy chances like that.

We keep bemoaning these games, like today and like palace at home, where the opposition create sod all yet manage to score twice, as if it’s just bad luck. It isn’t, it’s us. We shouldn’t be relying on West Ham not finishing their chances to beat them, simple as.

Nor should we be crying about one missed sitter by Mata. Because we should be creating more than just the one chance for that to matter.

Ace of Spades · Sep 22, 2019

2 man midfield said:
We keep bemoaning these games, like today and like palace at home, where the opposition create sod all yet manage to score twice, as if it’s just bad luck. It isn’t, it’s us. We shouldn’t be relying on West Ham not finishing their chances to beat them, simple as.

Nor should we be crying about one missed sitter by Mata. Because we should be creating more than just the one chance for that to matter.

Of course we should create more, but the players are so limited. Our squad is so piss poor, it is ridiculous.

2 man midfield · Sep 22, 2019

Superunknown said:
I'm not justifying the way that the team reacts to scoring goals or their inability to be more proactive before scoring. Simply saying that goals change games. Had that Mata chance gone in, it may have been a different second half. I completely agree that the team should be proactive from kick-off and always looking to get the goals, but the reality is that (for whatever reason) we seem to look nervous and unsure until we score our first goal.

However you look at it, it was still an overall poor performance and not too dissimilar to our many other performances this season.

We say this every week though. “Oh if only we’d scored that”, “the opposition scored a fluke goal, it’s 1 in 1000”, “Oh their goal was a worldie, what can you do?”.

The reason we keep saying things like that is because we’re so inept at creating chances, that those events usually end up deciding the game. We can bemoan Mata missing an open goal all we want, it certainly didn’t help, but when it’s the only chance you get in 90 minutes, you have to think the issue lies deeper than that.

Heardy · Sep 22, 2019

Jonno said:
It’s on Ole for selling a centre forward and not replacing him.

Trouble is we don’t know what he was / wasn’t promised.

This is definite transition, but it’s concerning at just how little depth we have.

2 man midfield · Sep 22, 2019

Ace of Spades said:
Of course we should create more, but the players are so limited. Our squad is so piss poor, it is ridiculous.

I agree. We should have spent more in the summer. I was ok with letting the players that left leave, they were wank. Not replacing them though was suicide.

peridigm · Sep 22, 2019

Ace of Spades said:
No, Woodward fecked up. Again.

Pretty sure Ed’s not going to sell players Ole had in his plans. It was clear he did not favor Sanchez, Lukaku or Smalling despot his yes man attitude in conferences.

Marcelinho87 · Sep 22, 2019

Jonno said:
It’s on Ole for selling a centre forward and not replacing him.

Keep blaming the managers and nothing will change.

The board dallied all summer on Maguire knowing full well the position we would be in... Look how quickly they shifted players out AFTER the window closed.

Ole has a net spend of feck all and has been stitched up by the board and so have we as fans yet again.

Schmeichel=God · Sep 22, 2019

Adcuth said:
The thing that baffles me, is that we don't play anything like we did in those 8 games out of 10 we won when he initially took over. The pressings the fluidity, the movement between players, runs into space or in behind. It's all gone

The nutshell shows itself. You sum it up well.

Lets list a few things wrong:
* Right footer at left back
* No willingness to stretch defences:
.... - no early crosses when in space out wide
.... - no presence in the box to connect with early crosses
.... - not enough % balls across the 6 yard box
.... - no striker instinct players to move in that space
* Playing Pogba at 6 instead of 10
* No real striker...even Hernandez would be better than Rashford without the pace and height.
* Laborious snail pace passing that asks no questions of the opposition whatsoever.

Anymore to add?

Schmeichel=God · Sep 22, 2019

And after all this I'm sorry but Smalling is better than Lindelof.

Rozay · Sep 22, 2019

Jonno said:
Greenwood was there last season. He was on the pitch when we beat PSG. Therefore Ole did not replace Lukaku.

He was 16 last season. He was brought into the squad in an injury crisis, however, he’s been promoted to a senior forward now. He’s not featured for the academy once this season. He’s no longer an academy player.

Adam-Utd · Sep 22, 2019

Schmeichel=God said:
And after all this I'm sorry but Smalling is better than Lindelof.

Even Lindelofs apparent ball qualities seem to have disappeared

Jonno · Sep 22, 2019

Rozay said:
He was 16 last season. He was brought into the squad in an injury crisis, however, he’s been promoted to a senior forward now. He’s not featured for the academy once this season. He’s no longer an academy player.

I don’t care if he was 16 last season, because last season we had Lukaku, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood. Whereas this season we have Rashford, Martial and Greenwood. Which means we didn’t replace Lukaku.

Adcuth · Sep 22, 2019

Schmeichel=God said:
The nutshell shows itself. You sum it up well.

Lets list a few things wrong:
* Right footer at left back
* No willingness to stretch defences:
.... - no early crosses when in space out wide
.... - no presence in the box to connect with early crosses
.... - not enough % balls across the 6 yard box
.... - no striker instinct players to move in that space
* Playing Pogba at 6 instead of 10
* No real striker...even Hernandez would be better than Rashford without the pace and height.
* Laborious snail pace passing that asks no questions of the opposition whatsoever.

Anymore to add?

Conversation between players is abysmal. Just that bit if communication to tell someone to press a player, or drop back, or cover an area that could be exposed. Simple things that can be worked on in training are missing, which has to be on the coaching staff. It's like everyone is doing their own thing rather than reacting to a set plan. The only lads who look anything close to acceptable are the ones who are willing to put a shift in, and they are not so abundant in our first team

Ace of Spades · Sep 22, 2019

peridigm said:
Pretty sure Ed’s not going to sell players Ole had in his plans. It was clear he did not favor Sanchez, Lukaku or Smalling despot his yes man attitude in conferences.

The problem is not getting rid of them, it is the fact that we did not replace them. Even when selling them he keeps penny pinching, and a few deadwood could not be cleared because of that. It was obvious that Lukaku wanted to leave, and Ole wanted a replacement in, but Woodward could get no one in time. Then, he could not get any midfielder either. The guy has been fecking up for so many years, some very good managers have come and gone, and yet our squad has looked a mess as we have no idea of where we are building up to.

peridigm · Sep 22, 2019

Adcuth said:
Shit team selection is his doing, lack of tactics is his doing, lack of motivation is his doing, lack of in game changes is his doing, subs either too late or not correct is his doing. The squad is terrible, but you can beat West ham with what we have available. Ole just doesn't know how to.

100%. sadly, It’s clear he’s out of his depth as a manager for a top club.

Ace of Spades · Sep 22, 2019

2 man midfield said:
I agree. We should have spent more in the summer. I was ok with letting the players that left leave, they were wank. Not replacing them though was suicide.

It was, said before the season started that we look very thin. Any injuries would feck us, and here we are.

Sied · Sep 22, 2019

mitchmouse said:
you reach a stage where you need great players but they simply won't come. we've always been an attractive proposition. not any more. and then leads to mid-table mediocrity and that leads to falling further down the table. and that leads to loss of revenue... and that leads to not being able to afford the best players. and you are in a circle of doom. enough for you?

How do you explain the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool falling into mediocrity and then recovering? It's possible of course, like Leeds (although perhaps they're even slowly on their way back) but I can never see it happening with a club of United's size and resources.

peridigm · Sep 22, 2019

Ace of Spades said:
The problem is not getting rid of them, it is the fact that we did not replace them. Even when selling them he keeps penny pinching, and a few deadwood could not be cleared because of that. It was obvious that Lukaku wanted to leave, and Ole wanted a replacement in, but Woodward could get no one in time. Then, he could not get any midfielder either. The guy has been fecking up for so many years, some very good managers have come and gone, and yet our squad has looked a mess as we have no idea of where we are building up to.

Oh, don’t misinterpret my reply as pro Woodward. He is definitely to blame for our state but blaming him solely is naive. Ole is just as culpable with regards to outgoing players. If he knew or even sensed that Ed would not replace Lukaku or Sanchez he should have requested to keep them. Ole has put all his eggs in the Rashford basket. 7 games into the season has proved it was the wrong decision to think he could be the main striker. Injuries happen and you need to plan for that.

Ace of Spades · Sep 22, 2019

peridigm said:
Oh, don’t misinterpret my reply as pro Woodward. He is definitely to blame for our state but blaming him solely is naive. Ole is just as culpable with regards to outgoing players. If he knew or even sensed that Ed would not replace Lukaku or Sanchez he should have requested to keep them. Ole has put all his eggs in the Rashford basket. 7 games into the season has proved it was the wrong decision to think he could be the main striker. Injuries happen and you need to plan for that.

Nah, Lukaku pretty much went on strike and keeping him would have just been bad for squad harmony. He is the only one that we really miss. Sanchez was terrifble, and injured more often than not, we are not missing much.

Again, we needed to replace them, and add some quality. Hope the clear-out continues, keeping these shit players won't improve us, replacing them will and that is upto Woodward.

Nicoseth · Sep 22, 2019

Ole has a free pass for the whole season as far as I'm concerned. Don't care how bad it gets, it's simply not his fault. It's been said so many time but look at how shite we were last season and look at the net spend this summer. We're going to lose a lot of games this year but you can't blame the manager if he doesn't have a squad to work with. I truly believe Ole will do well for us.

Berbaclass · Sep 22, 2019

Nicoseth said:
Ole has a free pass for the whole season as far as I'm concerned. Don't care how bad it gets, it's simply not his fault. It's been said so many time but look at how shite we were last season and look at the net spend this summer. We're going to lose a lot of games this year but you can't blame the manager if he doesn't have a squad to work with. I truly believe Ole will do well for us.

I feel like this too. To get rid of all the crap in our squad it’s going to cause a period of turbulence. We seem to be targeting the right players to move forward. Long term is obviously paramount here not just this season.

r0663664 · Sep 22, 2019

Watching Liverpool vs Chelsea. Just look at Liverpool, 2 goals from set piece. Players knowing exactly what to do. For us, Rushford will grab the ball and try to smash it into goals. How many goals has he score from set piece? Players are a joke, coach is a joke, COE is a clown, owners are a joke.

sammsky1 · Sep 22, 2019

sammsky1 said:
Win tomorrow and we go 3rd! Quite nuts given state of our squad.

Assumes we'd win!

BlahRules · Sep 22, 2019

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
We haven't even started the match yet!

If you are going to pick players that have not been performing then it’s your fault. I even can see this would happen the second I saw the line up, OGS is to blame for this.

Rozay · Sep 22, 2019

Jonno said:
I don’t care if he was 16 last season, because last season we had Lukaku, Rashford, Martial and Greenwood. Whereas this season we have Rashford, Martial and Greenwood. Which means we didn’t replace Lukaku.

It’s not hard. We sold one and promoted another.

peridigm · Sep 22, 2019

Nicoseth said:
Ole has a free pass for the whole season as far as I'm concerned. Don't care how bad it gets, it's simply not his fault. It's been said so many time but look at how shite we were last season and look at the net spend this summer. We're going to lose a lot of games this year but you can't blame the manager if he doesn't have a squad to work with. I truly believe Ole will do well for us.

I tend to agree but Ole will take the fall when it gets worse, and by all accounts, it’ll get worse. The problem is modern day football and money will not wait for Ole. Let’s see how much the owners stand by him. Fans are already turning on him. When the income drops off the owners will react. They have no choice, they will want to protect their investment, or be willing to sell. Let’s hope the later happens first.

mitchmouse · Sep 22, 2019

Sied said:
How do you explain the likes of Chelsea and Liverpool falling into mediocrity and then recovering? It's possible of course, like Leeds (although perhaps they're even slowly on their way back) but I can never see it happening with a club of United's size and resources.

of course much less likely with us but the answer of course for chelsea is that Abramovich came along. they were in huge danger at the time with ken bates in charge. liverpool were bigger and on safer ground as we are but I bet Bolton fans (if asked) probably felt safe 60 years ago (of course times have changed) but on a more immediate note our brand seems to be fading, the club's heart seems to have been ripped out and the planning for the future seems to be non-existant... as I said: it could happen, not would. but certainly we have already become less attractive to the TV companies (by being out of the title race)

mitchmouse · Sep 22, 2019

r0663664 said:
Watching Liverpool vs Chelsea. Just look at Liverpool, 2 goals from set piece. Players knowing exactly what to do. For us, Rushford will grab the ball and try to smash it into goals. How many goals has he score from set piece? Players are a joke, coach is a joke, COE is a clown, owners are a joke.

I was thinking that about the set pieces. even west ham's were better than ours

red4ever 79 · Sep 22, 2019

Will watch the game again later. The missus says I am crazy for watching games twice but I think on the second view you get a more balanced view. Saying that the first half was shocking and the only two chances I remember where Mata missing at the far post and the Maguire shot being saved

mitchmouse · Sep 22, 2019

2 man midfield said:
We say this every week though. “Oh if only we’d scored that”, “the opposition scored a fluke goal, it’s 1 in 1000”, “Oh their goal was a worldie, what can you do?”.

The reason we keep saying things like that is because we’re so inept at creating chances, that those events usually end up deciding the game. We can bemoan Mata missing an open goal all we want, it certainly didn’t help, but when it’s the only chance you get in 90 minutes, you have to think the issue lies deeper than that.

absolutely. in the days when we were winning titles, we'd be at least three up by the time the opposition scored their "wordly". I'm barely confidant of being rochdale

mitchmouse · Sep 22, 2019

Adam-Utd said:
Even Lindelofs apparent ball qualities seem to have disappeared

I disagree. there were at least four occasions I saw him sniff out trouble and snuffed it out before anything ahppened. he reads the game well. The only thing I am confidant about is that the more he and maguire play together, the better they will both become. people saying smalling is better than lindelof are out of their minds. next we'll be told jones is better

dev1l · Sep 22, 2019

mitchmouse said:
absolutely. in the days when we were winning titles, we'd be at least three up by the time the opposition scored their "wordly". I'm barely confidant of being rochdale

During Fergie glory days we were eliminated by the mighty Exeter, not to mention that we lost a league losing to a shifty West Ham side, much worse than this, on the last day of the season.

So please stop giving the impression that during our glory days, we didn't have bad ones too.

mitchmouse · Sep 22, 2019

just read Ole's comments. he is totally deluded. it's all when and good being positive, but when you go on doing the same thing and getting the same result, something is wrong. he thinks we could have won the game.. how? with who scoring? from which chances created? and then there's "we are looking forward to next week". I don't think many fans are, Ole. It was a fecking mess... again! he's they are very flat because of the result... well they were bloody flat on the park - just like against Palace and Southampton. Deluded. I love him so much but this job is beyond him

mitchmouse · Sep 22, 2019

dev1l said:
During Fergie glory days we were eliminated by the mighty Exeter, not to mention that we lost a league losing to a shifty West Ham side, much worse than this, on the last day of the season.

So please stop giving the impression that during our glory days, we didn't have bad ones too.

we didn't lose that day at west ham... we drew! the point is pretty much every day now is a shitty day

dev1l · Sep 22, 2019

mitchmouse said:
we didn't lose that day at west ham... we drew! the point is pretty much every day now is a shitty day

https://www.whufc.com/club/history/greatest-matches/west-ham-united-1-manchester-united-0

mitchmouse · Sep 22, 2019

dev1l said:
https://www.whufc.com/club/history/greatest-matches/west-ham-united-1-manchester-united-0

or sorry, I meant the season we drew there with cole having about five saved by the keeper, including with almost the last kick of the game

el3mel · Sep 22, 2019

dev1l said:
During Fergie glory days we were eliminated by the mighty Exeter, not to mention that we lost a league losing to a shifty West Ham side, much worse than this, on the last day of the season.

So please stop giving the impression that during our glory days, we didn't have bad ones too.

We were also winning leagues and cups, not finishing 6th every season.

dev1l · Sep 22, 2019

el3mel said:
We were also winning leagues and cups, not finishing 6th every season.

Not in the first 5 years...

el3mel · Sep 22, 2019

dev1l said:
Not in the first 5 years...

Yeah let's wait 5 years for any upcoming manager because it worked once.

dev1l · Sep 22, 2019

el3mel said:
Yeah let's wait 5 years for any upcoming manager because it worked once.

So we should do a Watford and sack manager every 6 months?

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