Penalty taker - Ole needs to pick his men

Ade_ · Aug 19, 2019

I really don't understand the logic of this system. So with every penalty, we are going to have this discussion on the pitch, and ultimately show everyone who doesn't fancy it too!? If you don't want to take it once then you really shouldn't be taking them at all.

I'm fully behind Ole and will continue to be so, but this is a very weak way of thinking from our manager. There should be one first choice designated penalty taker, end of.

paulscholes18 · Aug 19, 2019

Rashford

12OunceEpilogue · Aug 19, 2019

LuisNaniencia said:
Rashford needs to take pens. End of.

Bastian said:
/thread

Aye

a_devil_inside · Aug 19, 2019

Rashford or Martial for me

Havak · Aug 19, 2019

Yep, think Ole has to be big enough to say Marcus the job is yours. No other discussion required.

Snow · Aug 19, 2019

In this case (which is fairly common) the players decide who takes it. That's fair enough.

fergiesarmy1 · Aug 19, 2019

Ade_ said:
I really don't understand the logic of this system. So with every penalty, we are going to have this discussion on the pitch, and ultimately show everyone who doesn't fancy it too!? If you don't want to take it once then you really shouldn't be taking them at all.

I'm fully behind Ole and will continue to be so, but this is a very weak way of thinking from our manager. There should be one first choice designated penalty taker, end of.

Also fully behind Ole but he needs to sort this out, doesn’t look good on the manager or the players discussing it on the pitch. Adds pressure as well because you miss all this comes up and causes arguments with the fans.

stepic · Aug 19, 2019

Ole: ‘Whoever feels the most confident will take it’.

They are both going to want to take it every chance they get. Its a weak horseshit excuse.

You pick one. Then you have a reserve. Simple. And that reserve should be Martial.

davidmichael · Aug 19, 2019

Has Rashford ever missed a penalty for us ? I think Rashford should be our first choice with Martial as second and then Pogba as third choice, overindulging Pogba has long been a problem.

GloryHunter07 · Aug 19, 2019

Rashford looked a bit pissy with Pogba tonight. Ole needs to sort this out.

Vidyoyo · Aug 19, 2019

Rooney's conversion rate here was pretty good at 75%.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/wayne-rooney/elfmetertore/spieler/3332

Pogba's before tonight was also 75% (the point we were contesting whether he should take it)

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/paul-pogba/elfmetertore/spieler/122153

Penalties are converted at an average rate of 75% so neither are that bad really.

Worth noting that Rashford has only scored two in his whole life for us. I agree he's a good penalty taker so far but I don't think we have enough data to judge effectively.

Edit:

Ruud scored 82% of his penalties for us.

De Gea is pretty gash at saving them, I'll give you that.

Also edited my earlier post to include Pogba's lower stats (sack him; sell Ole!).

Tel074 · Aug 19, 2019

John Blund said:
It's not anti-Pogba on anything else than taking him of penalty-duties. If we were allowed to change keeper for penalties against us, I'd say we take DDG off penalty-duties as well.

I don't want Shaw to take our direct free-kicks either, but that's not an issue now. Penalties should be a goal at least 4/5 times. Penalties against us is pretty much a 9/10 at the moment.

Especially with the new rules a pen shouldn't really be missed anymore . Good save but a perfect height for the keeper . Pogba has missed way to many pens to be allowed near another one

RyRoc · Aug 19, 2019

Introduction of VAR means there are going to be more penalties so does make sense to have more than one regular taker. However completely disagree with it being decided in the moment though. Should be decided before the game so there's no confusion or doubt and should not be something that becomes a big deal.

Santoryo · Aug 19, 2019

Rashford has literally only taken 2 pens so far yet people acting like Pogba taking it over him was the biggest mistake ever made by mankind :lol:

CM · Aug 19, 2019

Don't let Gary Neville fool you into thinking this actually matters

John Blund · Aug 19, 2019

My memory might play with me.
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/who-was-best-penalty-taker-for-man-united-in-premier-league
I still feel Rash or Martial should be ahead of Pogba. It's not like having less than average conversion rate is good enough.

BrianLy · Aug 19, 2019

If this was any other business or industry where things actually mattered, Rashford would be on point for the penalties until data proved otherwise. Could you imagine:

Surgeons having a confab about who's going to lead a hip replacement operation;
Pilots working out who's going to do what as captain and first officer just before they fly 200+ people off to Spain for their holidays;
A company deciding which executive is going to present to a prospective customer, so that they can get enough sales to keep 1000s of their employees on the payroll.

While I know there are times that these scenarios screw-up, the vast majority of cases work out well because everything is planned and decided ahead of time. The person on point may not be the oldest, or most experienced, but they have been entrusted with leading and executing the task. The supporting individuals who could be leading another day show humility and fall in behind because they know that the leader will also show humility and highlight the team effort.

People can play down the importance of decisions like this, or suggest it's fair that players decide for themselves, but it's just not professional. We should be stone cold certain about this and the majority of set plays which can be rehearsed. What's more you can see from the behaviour and temperament of players which ones are likely to be most successful in certain circumstances. It is beyond question that Rashford and Martial are better suited to primary penalty taker. It doesn't mean Pogba isn't number three though.

Nanotron · Aug 19, 2019

CM10 said:
Don't let Gary Neville fool you into thinking this actually matters

Its a farce when two weeks in a row there are discussions over who takes it. Pick a number 1 and number 2. I f your confident one day and not the next then you shouldn't even be on the list. After last week, this should have been sorted for this week.

Vidyoyo · Aug 19, 2019

BrianLy said:
If this was any other business or industry where things actually mattered, Rashford would be on point for the penalties until data proved otherwise. Could you imagine:

Surgeons having a confab about who's going to lead a hip replacement operation;

Pilots working out who's going to do what as captain and first officer just before they fly 200+ people off to Spain for their holidays;

A company deciding which executive is going to present to a prospective customer, so that they can get enough sales to keep 1000s of their employees on the payroll.

While I know there are times that these scenarios screw-up, the vast majority of cases work out well because everything is planned and decided ahead of time. The person on point may not be the oldest, or most experienced, but they have been entrusted with leading and executing the task. The supporting individuals who could be leading another day show humility and fall in behind because they know that the leader will also show humility and highlight the team effort.

People can play down the importance of decisions like this, or suggest it's fair that players decide for themselves, but it's just not professional. We should be stone cold certain about this and the majority of set plays which can be rehearsed. What's more you can see from the behaviour and temperament of players which ones are likely to be most successful in certain circumstances. It is beyond question that Rashford and Martial are better suited to primary penalty taker. It doesn't mean Pogba isn't number three though.

I think if this were science then you'd concede that there isn't enough available data on Rashford to make a definitive conclusion. He has only taken two penalties for us.

Martial's stats are pretty good though. 5 penalties scored out of 6.

Not to sound too argumentative but I'm sick of the scapegoating when we lose.

m1tch · Aug 19, 2019

Martial and Rashford are supposed to be strikers, for that reason alone they should be demanding to take the penalties.
Pogba shouldn't be anywhere near penalties, much like Rashford should be nowhere near freekicks.

CM · Aug 19, 2019

Nanotron said:
Its a farce when two weeks in a row there are discussions over who takes it. Pick a number 1 and number 2. I f your confident one day and not the next then you shouldn't even be on the list. After last week, this should have been sorted for this week.

It was a good penalty which was well saved. It really doesn't warrant this kind of attention.

fergiesarmy1 · Aug 19, 2019

Vidyoyo said:
Where are you even getting your facts? Rooney's conversion rate here was 75%.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/wayne-rooney/elfmetertore/spieler/3332

Pogba's is also 75%

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/paul-pogba/elfmetertore/spieler/122153

Hey, how often are penalties converted on average I hear you ask. Well, let me see...

75%

"Penalty kicks have been converted about 75% of the time, depending on the league and year, compared to just 11% of regular shots in the English Premier League last year, the highest rate in more than a decade. Certainly, some players have a clear, unimpeded shot on goal and are sure to score before they're fouled."

B-b-b-but Rashford is so good at them!

He's scored two in his whole life for us. I agree he's a good penalty taker but just wait until he misses one, then the pitchforks will be out alright.

Edit:

Ruud scored 82% of his penalties for us.

De Gea is pretty gash at saving them though, I'll give you that.

Well pogba is now at 64% after tonight.

Vidyoyo · Aug 19, 2019

fergiesarmy1 said:
Well pogba is now at 64% after tonight.

You're right actually. Let me edit.

VJ1762 · Aug 19, 2019

Santoryo said:
Rashford has literally only taken 2 pens so far yet people acting like Pogba taking it over him was the biggest mistake ever made by mankind

You are talking like he took 2 after we were 3 goals up. One was under immense pressure against PSG, against fecking buffon. Another was the chance to be one goal up, against Chelsea when we were under pressure.

Can you honestly say Pogba would have scored for example, the penalty against PSG and the one Rashford scored in the world cup shootout? Most people are upset because at the end of the season, this might be the difference between us getting CL football and getting our summer targets as opposed to playing another season in the europa league with the likes of 'young talent' Lingard stinking the place up.

Roger777 · Aug 19, 2019

CM10 said:
It was a good penalty which was well saved. It really doesn't warrant this kind of attention.

No it wasn't a good penalty and yes it f***ing well does need attention. Wake up lad.

We need a designated pen taker. Not people milling around the pen spot debating it like a load of old tarts.

Roger777 · Aug 19, 2019

stepic said:
Ole: ‘Whoever feels the most confident will take it’.

They are both going to want to take it every chance they get. Its a weak horseshit excuse.

You pick one. Then you have a reserve. Simple. And that reserve should be Martial.

Spot on mate.

Was cringing when Ole said this. It stinks of lack of balls for me.

It needs sorting and sharpish. Very amateur like.

Andycoleno9 · Aug 19, 2019

Free kicks: 1. Mata 2. Pereira 3.Pogba....25. Rashford
Penalty: 1. Martial 2. Rashford 3. Mata
Corners: 1.Pereira

Santoryo · Aug 19, 2019

VJ1762 said:
You are talking like he took 2 after we were 3 goals up. One was under immense pressure against PSG, against fecking buffon. Another was the chance to be one goal up, against Chelsea when we were under pressure.

Can you honestly say Pogba would have scored for example, the penalty against PSG and the one Rashford scored in the world cup shootout? Most people are upset because at the end of the season, this might be the difference between us getting CL football and getting our summer targets as opposed to playing another season in the europa league with the likes of 'young talent' Lingard stinking the place up.

Someone mentioned this somewhere but penalties are hindsight. The reason I brought up Rashford only taking 2 pens was to illustrate my point about people coming to conclusion prematurely as well as pointing out that he's still not completely proven.

I'm sure Pogba or anyone penalty record after 2 taken look sublime. People can't be mad over him taking the penalty since he's normally our designated pen taker and he also won the pen which going by Rashford's interview last week it meant Pogba was always going to take it.

Hinsight is 20/20

Nanotron · Aug 19, 2019

CM10 said:
It was a good penalty which was well saved. It really doesn't warrant this kind of attention.

the pen itself isnt the issue. Everyone can miss. The issue is all the shite that goes on before its hit.

Santoryo · Aug 19, 2019

Roger777 said:
Spot on mate.

Was cringing when Ole said this. It stinks of lack of balls for me.

It needs sorting and sharpish. Very amateur like.

No it wasn't cringy. We've known since last week that this was the case. Pogba himself is a penalty taker. So he missed the pen, tough break it happens.

You lots acting like Rashford is immune to missing penalties. He's literally only taken 2 pens so far and isn't the only one who takes them. Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Mata they all take penalty.

I don't even know why this is being overblown and an issue is being made out of this.

Amir · Aug 19, 2019

I'm rather surprised that people are taking this so casually. Surely you'd want to maximize your chances, and Pogba is just not a great penalty taker. Plus I don't see the benefits of having such a fluid system. Good penalty takers score them even if they don't have a great game.

Renegade · Aug 19, 2019

Mental to me that Ole wouldn’t address this pre season, does he really want to witness a tug of war with the ball when we have penalties. Would it not put more pressure on the taker too, knowing his demanded it off someone else and create a bit of doubt in their head.

Just take ownership and assign a taker ffs.

BrianLy · Aug 19, 2019

Vidyoyo said:
I think if this were science then you'd concede that there isn't enough available data on Rashford to make a definitive conclusion.

I'm not saying this is about science. It's a pragmatic management and common sense. People love to suggest that there is only a quantitative view, but medicine is both and art and a science, and they generally don't have these types of conversations when they have a situation with limited/no data. I understand the issue with scapegoating, but that doesn't mean there isn't a place for retrospectives.

Jimmy_Bond · Aug 19, 2019

Mr Smith said:
People are wildly overreacting to this.

It's pathetic. A penalty has been missed. So what? Pogba was once again our most influential midfielder and remains key to our season.

Get behind him.

CM · Aug 19, 2019

Nanotron said:
the pen itself isnt the issue. Everyone can miss. The issue is all the shite that goes on before its hit.

It was a 5 second conversation where Rashford was happy to let Pogba take it. It's only become an issue because Gary Neville chose to make it one.

fergiesarmy1 · Aug 20, 2019

Renegade said:
Mental to me that Ole wouldn’t address this pre season, does he really want to witness a tug of war with the ball when we have penalties. Would it not put more pressure on the taker too, knowing his demanded it off someone else and create a bit of doubt in their head.

Just take ownership and assign a taker ffs.

You can also bet that the wolves goalie was happy seeing all that an all.

NewGlory · Aug 20, 2019

There was no reason whatsoever, except for petty selfishness and, maybe, Ole's indecisiveness for Pogba to have taken that penalty today. Rash was on the field. He's been penalty-taker in pre-season, Pogba has HORRIBLE penalties record.

WHY WHY WHY did Pogba take that penalty today? Yes, anybody can miss, but it was also a wrong thing to do today and he could have been a hero, now we are two points down, in a league in which every single point counts at the end of the season.

So pissed

CM10 said:
It was a 5 second conversation where Rashford was happy to let Pogba take it. It's only become an issue because Gary Neville chose to make it one.

But the point is - it shouldn't have been a conversation at all! What was Rash gonna say "no, do not take it?" Once Pogba made it known he wanted to take the penalty, we were screwed.

Amerifan · Aug 20, 2019

I’m pretty sure penalties are missed from time to time. Do we really need to solve this “problem” for Ole?

Duncan the Great · Aug 20, 2019

Cannot believe OGS after match interview. "left to the players who feel up for it" , surely this is certain to cause problems. Really gone down in my confidence that he has what is needed to manage United. As manager you must say who is the designated taker and only given to someone else if he is off the field or carrying an injury. No brainer Rashford should have taken tonight's pen now he'll take the next but after this debacle he will be under more pressure than he would have been had he taken tonight's pen and missed. May I suggest Pogba doesn't take another pen unless it's a pen shoot out.

As I said OGS should have taken control of who takes spot kicks, all coaching, tactics, and systems i.e.how and where players are asked to play.
Just a little concerned now regarding his appointment.

meninred · Aug 20, 2019

Pogba from what i observed is an ok penalty taker but not a good one. He should be a no.2 or so.

Penalty taker - Ole needs to pick his men

Who should take our penalties?

Pogba

Rashford

Somebody else

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