Yeah, he’s been shit. He’s clearly been less shit than Martial for a long time though. If you look through whoscored.com you can see that Rashford both passes the ball more often and better too despite that being a huge criticism of him.
Rashford and the offside conundrum
- Thread starter RashyForPM
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Yes, well done Rashford, for not being offside during the minutes you were sitting on the bench. Good job.
Not sure it's worthy of huge criticism, you want to see him make those runs and use his strengths, not always ball to feet. He needs to work on it. It's definitely something that can be ironed out. It's always going to happen for a striker and it's probably made worse by the fact there isn't great understanding between our players.
I'm more worried about some of his other play. Sloppy work on the ball, looking a fish out of water when everyone around him is pressing.
I'm more worried about some of his other play. Sloppy work on the ball, looking a fish out of water when everyone around him is pressing.
Okay, just to prove stats can be seen in many way - let's look at overall PL career stats.
Vardy 245 offsides. Games played 260 = 0.94 offsides per game.
Rashford 88 offsides. Games played 187 = 0.47 offsides per game.
Not sure why it's become popular up bash him considering he's one of our most liked players.
Yes he's out if firm but people seem to be enjoying it. It's in everyone's interest for him to regain form.
Yes he's out if firm but people seem to be enjoying it. It's in everyone's interest for him to regain form.
What's worse are the type of offsides, he often just lazily doesn't make his way back in possession. It's not like he's routinely getting in behind against a high block like Jamie Vardy.
He's been very badly coached throughout his career and it shows. Ole was a disaster for him. He has to take responsibility though, there's still no excuse for the amount of schoolboy errors he makes throughout the game.
He's been very badly coached throughout his career and it shows. Ole was a disaster for him. He has to take responsibility though, there's still no excuse for the amount of schoolboy errors he makes throughout the game.
There are enough options. Elanga, Lingard, Greenwood etc
Hes not a well developer player in general imo, this is just a part of it.
Pretty dumb comparison mate considering rashford has barely played compared to Ronaldo.
That’s exactly what he’s doing. It’s how he gets almost all of his big chances/goals.
My biggest redcafe bug bear is when there’s such a big pile on to a player who is not performing that people end up making shit up, so they can seem to have an original opinion on why the player is crap. This thread being a classic example.
I’m not using goals to compare who’s better but surely stats is the most objective way of compare the two’s contributions over their careers for those who pretend thst one’s been a complete flop and the other has been a success story.
As I said in another post, Rashford’s a better player currently but the way some of you go on as if there’s been a massive gap between their United careers is nonsense. Up until last season their record was almost identical in terms of goals, assists and appearances and the general consensus is that they were about level but you like to push this narrative that Martial has been rubbish his whole time here which is obviously untrue. I’m sure you even said Martial was only good when there was no crowds in the stadiums
so you’re agenda is pretty clear.They’ve both been inconsistent throughout their time here but Rashford’s been better since last season whilst still being worryingly inconsistent himself.
Sancho's goal vs Chelsea is a good example that had me worried. He's constantly offside and he's not able to understand it, almost as if he had a concussion and is confused...
Ironic coming from you
So Rashford has 0.729 offsides per match from his previous season. 27 offsides in 37 games.
Not an offside problem there.
Then looking at his career overall offsides he has 0.47 offsides per match. 88 in 187 games.
Not an offside problem there.
Now people are complaining that he has been offside alot or something - but it's still basically just once a match; on average 1.12 match. 8 games 9 offsides.
People then complain its not about offsides per game but offsides per minute per game.
Then what do we see? Rashford has alot of offsides per minute- not because he is having more offsides, but because he is playing less minutes this season than ever, coming on as subs and being subbed out respectively due to our increase in use of players like Ronaldo and Sancho.
Not been an offside problem in his career. Check.
Not been an offside problem last year. Check.
Been an offside problem just this year, just in the last 8 match, but still only once a match - and the only thing that makes it look worse than it is is because he is playing less minutes than ever due to added forwards and wingers we bought. Check.
I mean sure I'm not exactly going to force you to believe me, because I don't care.
Didn't have a problem in his career or last season - then people complain about this years offside stats per min because he has been chosen to play less than ever mins per game by his manager for newer players.
Check.
I think Rashfords offsides stand out more than anyone else because his are the ones where you're screaming at the tv for him being slow/lazy/stupid at getting himself back out. A lot of his seem the easily avoided type than the fine margin unlucky ones.
Please tell me how he’s scored two goals without getting any chances? Because that sounds miraculous.He hasn't even been getting chances. What are you talking about?
Feel free to link a thread I started about Martial being offside too much, or any other fictional criticism of his game. Shouldn’t be too difficult to find, considering how desperately you want to defend him from any and all criticism.
Exactly. People are acting like he is walking back with a cigar in his hand and then also touching the ball purposely offside because he still hasn't learnt the offside rule or something.
None of his stats show him as a big offside problem, from his career profile stats or his last season stats. He has basically 1 offisde per game this year and that's just during a period of 8 games anyway when he has come on as a sub and tries to make run in behind tired defensive lines. This year because he has come on and got less mins as a sub aswell as left as a sub (due to our extra forwards like Ronaldo & Sancho, hell even Elanga) - the stats over 8 games have skewed, but still only getting 1 offside per game like most players do anyway.
Literally the goal vs Leicester City showed exactly the type of runs he wants to make.
Just some made up bullshit. Sure if he has turned a bit lazy then our new manager Rangnick should aim to change that in him, but people are just looking for things to moan about with this shit.
Who said anything about offsides? The irony is you having a go at people piling on an underperforming player and making shit up. See here for example.
And yeah I like to defend our players from unwarranted criticism, not all cristicism, the same as you’re doing in this thread with Rashford. I don’t see a problem with that, are we only allowed to defend players you like?
He’s been very disappointing this season, don’t get me wrong. Especially when we had such high hopes after getting his shoulder/ankle sorted.
This offside thing is a red herring though. He plays the game right on the shoulder of the last defender ai is bound to be offside more than most. That’s one of his strengths though. He’d be a lesser player if he didn’t constantly flirt with being offside.
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Ha! Fair cop, guv. At least I had the decency to ask that as a question and didn’t double down when everyone disagreed.
Besides, wasn’t that thread more of an explanation for him being poor, rather than making up something fictional he’s bad bad at?
I’m not sure to be honest, it just sticks in the mind because if anything, Martial tends to hit form in the winter months. But yeah we all do it, I had to check myself for joining in the pile on Maguire this season, I doubt there’s a single football fan that doesn’t have an some sort of bias and agenda. As long as we all own it then there’s not too much of an issue.
He’s a good player and a top bloke but he hasn’t hit those heights yet. He is young still and has potential to really come good..
we really need the best of him. He’s a game changer on form.
we really need the best of him. He’s a game changer on form.
Yeah, very true. I know I’m definitely biased. Happens when watching a game. A player I don’t rate annoys me far more than a player I do rate if they make the exact same mistake. So please feel free to keep calling out my bias!
But yeah we all do it, I had to check myself for joining in the pile on Maguire this season, I doubt there’s a single football fan that doesn’t have an some sort of bias and agenda. As long as we all own it then there’s not too much of an issue.
Be careful what you wish for
What the mins played for context?
Actually laughing out loud at you trying to turn this into a per games argument and not a per minute one.
Read my last post. I explain it to perfection there.
He is still having only 1 offside per match - as do most players; the only reason people are complaining is because he isn't playing a full 90 mins anymore this season because he is either coming on as a sub or coming off as one due to the signings of Ronaldo and Sancho.
And still people are complaining about 1 offside per match looking worse because he isn't finishing a full 90 mins like the other players do or even he did more so last season
And!!!! His stats for his full career and last season is so so so so so far away from being an offside problem, that if this was seriously one in people's heads; that it's only happened for 8 games this season
and 8 games he hasn't even played full 90 mins for!He needs to take some advice from Ronaldo ..he’s very rarely caught offside..it’s a skill Rashford should work on.
It's a minor annoyance amongst his other issues to be honest. A player in bad form has every issue highlighted ten fold.
I think his overall decision making is poor but he's got Ronaldo and Ragnick to learn from now so you'd hope it improves.
I think his overall decision making is poor but he's got Ronaldo and Ragnick to learn from now so you'd hope it improves.
Marcus has been poor this season, but mitigating circumstances have to be taken into account. The surgery, the off-pitch distractions associated with his political work and the chaos brought on by Ole’s management, and I would add his lack of maturity have all conspired against him. Criticism directed at him is warranted but he’s not the only who’s had issues this season. Ralf will help Marcus work through his tendency to foolishly get caught offside.
Nice tangent. Back to my original point. It was a dumb comparison to use those stats to prove a point.
As is using just 8 matches he has been used as a sub in to pretend like he has a problem he never had before.
His decision making frustrates me more than his offside count. He is definitely out of form and still poses a threat but hopefully RR can get some decent coaching into help an help him make better decisions on the ball.
..which is exactly why you should base it on offsides per minute like multiple people have tried to tell you but you seem hell bent on ignoring it. Based on per minute, Rashford is offside 3 times more often than Salah who plays in a similar position.
And that's not because he is getting more offsides than normal - he is still only getting one per game at 1.1 and the only thing that's changed is the amount of time he plays because of him being subbed on and subbed off rather than finishing a full 90 mins like salah does or even Rashford did last season.
You reduce the time Rashford plays and suddenly 1 offside per match looks worse due to the amount of time he played rather than him increasing the amount of offsides he makes. Because the amount of offsides he makes is the same, what has changed is him either not starting the game or him not finishing the game.
Then you look at this thread and how it was made in January this year, not now talking about a few games that people suddenly think he has a problem about just after 8 games, 8 games where he comes on as a sub to run behind the tired defence.
When you look at his last season stats (when this thread was made) - he was getting less offisdes than matches 27 in 37 games.
It was mathematically never a problem then, and suddenly only a problem in people's head now not because Rashford is making more offsides than ever (the same quantity as so so so many players ) but because of the amount of time Rashford stays on the pitch which is less than so so so many. What would happen if he just gets one offside per match (as is his stats right now) but finishes the game for a full 90 mins? The offside per min ratio drops. That doesn't happen, he gets low match mins coming on as a sub or coming off as one and No one even contemplates what he tries to do when he comes on in the second half as an attacking substitute.
Anyway, I'm done here. You believe whatever you want, that he has a problem from one mathematical perspective including just 8 games with hardly minimal finishing of matches for 90 mins.
Then I've bought up his career stats, his last season full stats and how his stats are not bad this year because he didn't increase by quantity but more from a decrease of time on the pitch.
No he hasn't.
Rashford has just came back from a severe I jury and surgery, yet he still has 2 more goals and an assist more than Martial in only 1 more game.
He has also looked more dangerous than Martial even if he has been pretty poor.
Martial does a bit of dribbling and a few one two's that don't go anywhere. He has barely any work rate as well.
So the number of offsides is a constant for Rashford regardless of how many minutes he plays during a season, right?
Martials workrate has actually historically been better than Rashford. The latter did next to no tracking back in comparison.
In the few minutes Martial has played this season, his general play has been no worse than Rashfords. That much is obvious.
But whatever, Rashford is untouchable so feck it. Its bad to even insinuate hes been poor in his play for extended periods.