It's a bit arbitrary.
He's much more than that without a shred of a doubt. There's a reason why he's (rightly) in GOAT debates. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge him as one of the greatest footballers ever and/or downplay his achievements is either biased or should watch another sport.
After a lot of searching, found this article from 2014. Messi's peak was not great, it was alien.
2010-14: G+A
xG vs G - finishing efficiency
2010-14: long shots
Unassisted goals:
Take-ons:
Through balls - this one is the most ridiculous
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Yeah that 113 goals+assists record will never be touched.
Ronaldo for Barca and Inter arguably peaked as high as it gets. He didn't get as much goals as Cristiano in his best seasons but teams scored much less goals in those times anyway. As unstoppable as he was in the 90s, I think it is a legit argument that he peaked higher than CR7. Longevity obviously goes to Cristiano, though.
Id say that Brazilian Ronaldo peaked above Messi as well.
Its just fanboys trolling or people without clue about football who don't recognize Ronaldo's overall attributes which in his prime were good and pretty balanced. He's not just in the godtier in stuff like playmaking, dribbling and passing, but it doesn't mean that he wasn't actually good in those attributes. He is in the godtier in heading and goalscoring though. Very strong athletic attributes as well. If Ronnnie hadn't played in the same era as Messi he might have had 8 or 9 Ballon D'ors if he had kept the same level. Any such player is a all time great.
Messi has a higher non-La liga goal contributions per minute than Ronaldo, I think.
I'm sorry but based on your posts in this thread you come across as incredibly thick.
Us doctors already have a shoddy public opinion as it is. Please don’t make it worse for us.
Messi broke the CL record for most completed dribbles in a match against us when we were the best defensive side in the world in 2008. It's why I have him on ignore, he repeats the same stupid argument forever. Also he makes the case that his only "Maradona" goal outside of La liga was vs Real Madrid in the CL. It was still against a fecking La Liga side, one the best in the world against Mourinho's Real Madrid. The idea that the Maradona scored the goal of the century all the time in Seria A is pure myth. The mythical player who dribbles the entire defense all the time and scores has never actually happened, but it's something that only a few players are able to do a few times in their career. Messi and Maradonna being 2 of them.
Because the guy would only pick Guardiola and City over any other team.
Yes intelligence comes from football
that says a lot about your intelligence!oNe tEaMBecause the guy would only pick Guardiola and City over any other team.
just built for one team
Is this Argentina? Literally the club he grew up with just like Barcelona all his lifeoNe tEaM
I think in such lists, Beckenbauer is so underrated. I would have him in the 4th of the list, and the only European player potentially sitting on the same table as the popular PMM top 3.
To add to this: How much did R9's lifestyle impact his injuries? Post-2002 (26 years old) was he as diligent as he could have been?
Yeah in this day and age where people are obsessed with games/goals/assists ratios it might seem mental to some that Müller(candidate for the best goalscorer ever) wasn't even considered the best player at his club. A sweeper was.
Funny given that's exactly what people do with him.
Wouldn't be the case today that's for sure
Yes, he should have played for Uruguay because he didn´t grow up there, fair enough.Is this Argentina? Literally the club he grew up with just like Barcelona all his life
Anyway, enjoy him - no one is changing their mind on him!
Just glad the myth that he had aged finished and showed that he was just adapting to Ligue bloody 1 after winning the Balon Dor for winning the copa America.
Now he is back in form the aged excuse has gone.
Fantastic player and one of my GOAT’s but I value a players mentality than just pure technicality especially a technicality linked only to South Americans playing in their equivalent of an European country in the La Liga.
Or chosen to play for Spain where he hardly would have made them worse and likely have had that WC to his name. But yeah anyway, Argentina is now that damn comfort zone.
He has visibly aged. It's why his game has slowed down so much. His game is more about vision and passing than anything these days. He's not finished in the sense that he can never produce, he just can't play like a 24 year old Messi for completely natural reasons.Is this Argentina? Literally the club he grew up with just like Barcelona all his life
Anyway, enjoy him - no one is changing their mind on him!
Just glad the myth that he had aged finished and showed that he was just adapting to Ligue bloody 1 after winning the Balon Dor for winning the copa America.
Now he is back in form the aged excuse has gone.
Fantastic player and one of my GOAT’s but I value a players mentality than just pure technicality especially a technicality linked only to South Americans playing in their equivalent of an European country in the La Liga.
But still confortably top 10 players even today.
Not sure I agree, and you know i'm not a Messi hater. He's too slowed down. I don't think all opposition in Ligue 1 is cannon fodder for PSG, but he has to have some strong perfomances against top clubs for me to have him up there and he only gets the chance once in a while in the CL. His showings are mainly better than last year and some of his assists and passing is world class but I'm not sure I'd have him in the top 10 and im not even sure he is making PSG a better team at this point considering how little off the ball work him, Neymar and Mbappe do. It's still early season anyways and we'll see how it unfolds.
We´ll see in the next couple of months where is he.
My list:
IReally????
He is obviously not at his peak but he has been, alongside Neymar, the best at PSG and in the last 2 to 3 games, the best outright. I feel like you may not be a hater but you prefer someone else, maybe Mbappe? (BTW the selfish egomaniac has been quite poor despite his goals) therefore are playing down how good Messi has been thus far.
Completely disagree. I've watched both play and while R9 was a force of nature l, Messi’s pure dribbling and playmaking ability at his peak were extraterrestrial and a level above R9. Messi at his peak also regularly tore apart the best champions league sides so the la liga argument isn't true at all.
People who like a player have an idealised image of that player and so set high standards for them - for example, see Fed/Nadal fans talking about their player.
Its pure delusion to keep comparing a 35 year old to his 25-30 year old self. We've all seen Messi at his alien level but don't find the decline anything other than normal.
I agree - I think even the 2015 MSN version that was so highly praised wasn't a patch on the peak goalscoring version from earlier.
He was a party goer and a womaniser. It wasn't just his injury but also his typical Brazilian attitude.
Zidane had one great game at wc 2006 as did Mbappe at wv 2018. So this idea that the named players had some yard stick world cups is nonsensical. Infact before Zidanes great performance vs Brazil, there were calls to drop him.
I swear I felt he got married every year at Madrid.
Pretty dubious way to compare them.oNe tEaM
He had a serious injury in his teens, then 2 ACL injuries before 2002. He had osgood-Schattler disease. Lifestyle didn’t help, but the guy was running on dodgy knees after 2002. No wonder he suffered another ACL a few years later
